numpy-discussion — Discussion list for all users of Numerical Python

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[<jo...@jo...>]

On 21 Nov 2003 15:26:32 -0500 Todd Miller wrote:

Todd> The vote is for switching from "warn" on underflow to "ignore"
Todd> on overflow, so:
         ^^^^
        under!

Todd> +1 =3D=3D "ignore" underflow   (vote for the change)
Todd> 0  =3D=3D don't care
Todd> -1 =3D=3D "warn" underflow     (vote against the change)

+1

Greetings,
Jochen
--=20
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit                http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de
    Libert=E9, =C9galit=E9, Fraternit=E9                GnuPG key: CC1B0B4D
        (Part 3 you find in my messages before fall 2003.)

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[<ve...@em...>]

+1 for "ignore" 
 
Peter 
 

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Alexander S. <a.s...@gm...>]

"Sebastian Haase" <ha...@ms...> writes:

> Hi Alexander,
> Thanks for your reply  and yes, I would be very interested to see more of
> your "pretty print" code.

Sure, I'll send you the code. As it is for a matrix class it only handles up
to (array-)rank 2 currently (and uses methods of the matrix class) but I don't
think changing either of these should be too hard.

> I am trying to put together all kinds of useful things to make python ( with
> numarray and scipy) a possible replacement for Matlab...

<grin> Been, there done that -- actually still doing it. 

When I was faced with the choice between matlab and python for my numerical
work, I decided that despite the convince matlab offered for many things
(libraries, interactive environment) I couldn't face the its monstrosity as a
programming language and thus opted for python.

These were the main areas were I found python/Numeric was lagging behind:

1. Numeric.dot was much too slow (factor 40-100 and more for large arrays)
2. Although Numeric's arrays are quite general and powerful, I found writing
   down simple matrix expressions (dot(transpose(X), dot(...))) and the visual
   clarity of the repr of the result less attractive than matlab's.
3. Library support (e.g. in some fields many academics tend to make matlab
   code corresponding to their articles available, which is very handy to
   quickly try something).
4. Matlab came with very good plotting capabilities, whereas python's support
   for plotting was quite poor when I started using it.
5. Matlab also had a pretty good interactive environment.

So far I've managed to come up with the following (sometimes partial)
solutions for the above problems.

1. An optional fast dot product using blas (although I somehow still ended up
   spending a few days on it, all the real work was done by my supervisor
   Richard Everson -- I've submitted a patch that made it into Numeric 23 but
   I don't think numarray has an the option of a fast dot product yet,
   although I haven't checked).
2. A powerful matrix class (mostly finished; should transparently support
   Numeric as well as numarray (the latter is not fully there yet),
   unreleased).
3. A high-level matlab interface (pretty much ready to be released).
4. A convenient and high-level plotting library that supports multiple
   backends (currently only proper support for matlab as backend although I
   started working on/contemplating others (e.g. grace, gnuplot and chaco);
   unreleased)
5. IPython (kudos to Fernando!) + emacs + a few convenience functions for
   things like saving variables and redefining classes makes a darn nice
   environment once one got the hang of it (unfortunately it meant I had to
   write the emacs support for ipython, it's available on the ipython
   website).

Of course if anyone wants to lend a hand, he/she is more than welcome ;)

> I am not hoping for a similarly big documentation and help system, but just

Why not? Nowadays pretty much all python code comes with pretty good
docstrings and implementing something like 'lookfor' shouldn't be particularly
hard. Already looking up docs and jumping to code in ipython is quite
convenient (e.g. ``some_func?``).

> the fact that it's free ( doesn't need to connect to a "license server"
> every other minute)  and that it happily supports single-precision arrays
> ( not to mention memmap array !)   should make it interesting.

And that it is not based on an abomination of a programming language but an
excellent one, with plenty of high quality general purpose libs (and even if
only doing numerics is concerned: Numeric/numarray's (APL-ish) design also
doesn't compare badly to matlab, IMHO).

> I know that I probably should use IPython, 

Indeed, everyone should (from within emacs ;)

'as

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Warren F. <fo...@SL...>]

+1

Warren Focke

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Todd Miller wrote:

> Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Sebastian H. <ha...@ms...>]

Hi Alexander,
Thanks for your reply  and yes, I would be very interested to see more of
your "pretty print" code.
I am trying to put together all kinds of useful things to make python ( with
numarray and scipy) a possible replacement for Matlab...
I am not hoping for a similarly big documentation and help system, but just
the fact that it's free ( doesn't need to connect to a "license server"
every other minute)  and that it happily supports single-precision arrays
( not to mention memmap array !)   should make it interesting.
I know that I probably should use IPython, but I also run python embedded in
a wxWindows app and therefore use pyCrust.

Thanks again,
Sebastian Haase


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alexander Schmolck" <a.s...@gm...>
To: "Sebastian Haase" <ha...@ms...>
Cc: <num...@li...>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow
handling == "ignore" ?


> "Sebastian Haase" <ha...@ms...> writes:
>
> > My vote would be '-1' ( if that means "I prefer ignore")
> > I'm thinking of an INTERACTIVE platform - and so it would just "look
nicer"
> > without to many warnings.
>
> Well, it's only a default so you could always deactivate it (for all
> interactive sessions in your PYTHONSTARTUP if you wanted).
>
> >
> > Actually on that note: I read some time ago about pythons default for
> > printing floats:
> > >>> 0.1
> > 0.10000000000000001
> > >>> print 0.1
> > 0.1
> > >>> repr(0.1)
> > '0.10000000000000001'
> > >>> str(.1)
> > '0.1'
> >
> > Does anyone here have an update on that ?
>
>
>
> > What I am especially interested in is when I have a list of (floating
point)
> > (x,y) positions and
> > then typing in the var-name and getting all these ugly numbers is still
very
> > frustration for me ;-)
>
> You can customize python's interactive printing behavior any way you like
(in
> your PYTHONSTARTUP). Here is an example from my old ~/.pythonrc.py
(nowadays I
> almost exclusively use ipython).
>
> import pprint
> PRETTY_PRINT=1
> _normal_displayhook = sys.displayhook
> def _my_displayhook(object):
>     if PRETTY_PRINT:
>         # don't bore us with None
>         if object is not None:
>             pprint.pprint(object)
>     else:
>         _normal_displayhook(object)
> sys.displayhook = _my_displayhook
>
> You could add something to the above to achieve the floating point (or
list)
> formating you desire (``if type(object) is float:...).
>
> Since I am a heavy interactive user and found the default floating
formating
> of arrays somewhat clumsy for interactive work, I also wrote some more
> fanciful formatting code for my Numeric/numarray compatible matrix class
that
> amongst other things offers a number of formating options, including
matlab
> style. I found that this made my life much easier.
>
> Thus:
>
> >>> a
> array([[-9.90000000e+01,  -9.72817182e+01,
 0.00000000e+00,  -7.99144631e+01],
>        [-4.54018500e+01,   4.84131591e+01,   3.03428793e+02,
9.96633158e+02],
>        [2.88095799e+03,   8.00308393e+03,   2.19264658e+04,
5.97741417e+04]])
> >>> m = matrix(a)
> >>> m
> matrix('''
> 1.0E+04 *
>
>   -0.00990   -0.00973    0.00000   -0.00799
>   -0.00454    0.00484    0.03034    0.09966
>    0.28810    0.80031    2.19265    5.97741
> ''')
> >>> m.show('long')
> matrix('''
> 1.0E+04 *
>
>
> Columns 0 through 3
>
>   -0.009900000000000   -0.009728171817154    0.000000000000000
>   -0.004540184996686    0.004841315910258    0.030342879349274
>    0.288095798704173    0.800308392757538    2.192646579480672
>
> Columns 3 through 4
>
>   -0.007991446307681
>    0.099663315842846
>    5.977414171519782
> ''')
> >>> m.show('+')
> m.show('+')
> matrix('''
> -- -
> -+++
> ++++
> ''')
>
> etc.
>
> Adapting this to e.g. format Numeric arrays similarly via the display hook
> shouldn't be too hard, I can provide the code if you're interested.
>
>
> 'as
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program.
> Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive?  Does it
> help you create better code?  SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help
> YOU!  Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/
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>

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Alexander S. <a.s...@gm...>]

"Sebastian Haase" <ha...@ms...> writes:

> My vote would be '-1' ( if that means "I prefer ignore")
> I'm thinking of an INTERACTIVE platform - and so it would just "look nicer"
> without to many warnings.

Well, it's only a default so you could always deactivate it (for all
interactive sessions in your PYTHONSTARTUP if you wanted).

> 
> Actually on that note: I read some time ago about pythons default for
> printing floats:
> >>> 0.1
> 0.10000000000000001
> >>> print 0.1
> 0.1
> >>> repr(0.1)
> '0.10000000000000001'
> >>> str(.1)
> '0.1'
> 
> Does anyone here have an update on that ?



> What I am especially interested in is when I have a list of (floating point)
> (x,y) positions and
> then typing in the var-name and getting all these ugly numbers is still very
> frustration for me ;-)

You can customize python's interactive printing behavior any way you like (in
your PYTHONSTARTUP). Here is an example from my old ~/.pythonrc.py (nowadays I
almost exclusively use ipython).

import pprint
PRETTY_PRINT=1
_normal_displayhook = sys.displayhook
def _my_displayhook(object):
    if PRETTY_PRINT:
        # don't bore us with None
        if object is not None:
            pprint.pprint(object)
    else:
        _normal_displayhook(object)
sys.displayhook = _my_displayhook

You could add something to the above to achieve the floating point (or list)
formating you desire (``if type(object) is float:...).

Since I am a heavy interactive user and found the default floating formating
of arrays somewhat clumsy for interactive work, I also wrote some more
fanciful formatting code for my Numeric/numarray compatible matrix class that
amongst other things offers a number of formating options, including matlab
style. I found that this made my life much easier.

Thus:

>>> a
array([[-9.90000000e+01,  -9.72817182e+01,   0.00000000e+00,  -7.99144631e+01],
       [-4.54018500e+01,   4.84131591e+01,   3.03428793e+02,   9.96633158e+02],
       [2.88095799e+03,   8.00308393e+03,   2.19264658e+04,   5.97741417e+04]])
>>> m = matrix(a)
>>> m
matrix('''
1.0E+04 *

  -0.00990   -0.00973    0.00000   -0.00799
  -0.00454    0.00484    0.03034    0.09966
   0.28810    0.80031    2.19265    5.97741
''')
>>> m.show('long')
matrix('''
1.0E+04 *


Columns 0 through 3

  -0.009900000000000   -0.009728171817154    0.000000000000000
  -0.004540184996686    0.004841315910258    0.030342879349274
   0.288095798704173    0.800308392757538    2.192646579480672

Columns 3 through 4

  -0.007991446307681
   0.099663315842846
   5.977414171519782
''')
>>> m.show('+')
m.show('+')
matrix('''
-- -
-+++
++++
''')

etc.

Adapting this to e.g. format Numeric arrays similarly via the display hook
shouldn't be too hard, I can provide the code if you're interested.


'as

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Todd M. <jm...@st...>]

On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 15:22, Sebastian Haase wrote:
> My vote would be '-1' ( if that means "I prefer ignore")

The vote is for switching from "warn" on underflow to "ignore" on
overflow, so:

+1 == "ignore" underflow   (vote for the change)
0  == don't care
-1 == "warn" underflow     (vote against the change)

-- 
Todd Miller 			
Space Telescope Science Institute
3700 San Martin Drive
Baltimore MD, 21030
(410) 338 - 4576

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Sebastian H. <ha...@ms...>]

My vote would be '-1' ( if that means "I prefer ignore")
I'm thinking of an INTERACTIVE platform - and so it would just "look nicer"
without to many warnings.

Actually on that note: I read some time ago about pythons default for
printing floats:
>>> 0.1
0.10000000000000001
>>> print 0.1
0.1
>>> repr(0.1)
'0.10000000000000001'
>>> str(.1)
'0.1'

Does anyone here have an update on that ?
What I am especially interested in is when I have a list of (floating point)
(x,y) positions and
then typing in the var-name and getting all these ugly numbers is still very
frustration for me ;-)

Thanks,
Sebastian Haase


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David M. Cooke" <co...@ph...>
To: "numpy-discussion" <num...@li...>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow
handling == "ignore" ?


> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 08:50:42AM -0800, Chris Barker wrote:
> > Todd Miller wrote:
> > > > > Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> > > > > underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
> >
> > > The default of underflow is "warn"
> >
> > assuming that ignore means that zero will be used, I vote +1
> >
> > If the difference between zero and the smallest floating point number is
> > significant in your app, you'd better know what you're doing with
> > floating point, and you should then know to set the check to "warn" or
> > "raise".
>
> Agree, +1. It's quite common (for me) that I want exp(-1000) to give 0,
> and not an error (or warning, espicially in a loop that goes for several
> thousand iterations...) Overflow, yes, that's a problem, but not
underflow.
>
> (The behaviour below lead me to writing my own exp ufunc for Numeric:
> >>> import Numeric
> >>> Numeric.exp(-1000)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: math range error
> >>>
> ugh.
> )
>
> -- 
> |>|\/|<
>
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
> |David M. Cooke
http://arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca/dmc/
> |co...@ph...
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program.
> Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive?  Does it
> help you create better code?  SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help
> YOU!  Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/
> _______________________________________________
> Numpy-discussion mailing list
> Num...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/numpy-discussion
>

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[David M. C. <co...@ph...>]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 08:50:42AM -0800, Chris Barker wrote:
> Todd Miller wrote:
> > > > Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> > > > underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
> 
> > The default of underflow is "warn"
> 
> assuming that ignore means that zero will be used, I vote +1
> 
> If the difference between zero and the smallest floating point number is
> significant in your app, you'd better know what you're doing with
> floating point, and you should then know to set the check to "warn" or
> "raise".

Agree, +1. It's quite common (for me) that I want exp(-1000) to give 0,
and not an error (or warning, espicially in a loop that goes for several
thousand iterations...) Overflow, yes, that's a problem, but not underflow.

(The behaviour below lead me to writing my own exp ufunc for Numeric:
>>> import Numeric
>>> Numeric.exp(-1000)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: math range error
>>> 
ugh.
)

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke                      http://arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca/dmc/
|co...@ph...

Re: [Numpy-discussion] how-to "put" RAM-based numarray into memmap

[Francesc A. <fa...@op...>]

A Divendres 21 Novembre 2003 18:28, Chris Barker va escriure:
> Sebastian Haase wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Suppose I have a 500MB-ram Computer and a 300MB ram-only (standard)
> > numarray.
> > Now I would like to "save" that onto harddrive (with a small header up
> > front
>
> How about:
>
> f = open(filename, 'wb')
> f.write(MyHeader)
> A.tofile(f)
>
> To read it back in, you need to know where your header ends, by either
> parsing it or using one of the same size every time, then you can use
> fromfile() to create an array form it.

You can also use pytables for doing that more comfortably:

>>> a=zeros([2,3,3])
>>> import tables
>>> fileh=tables.openFile("test.h5", "w")
>>> fileh.createArray(fileh.root, "array1", a, "This is a small test array")
/array1 (Array(2, 3, 3)) 'This is a small test array'
  type = Int32
  itemsize = 4
  flavor = 'NumArray'
  byteorder = 'little'
>>> fileh.close()

To read it back you only have to do:

>>> fileh=tables.openFile("test.h5", "r")
>>> a=fileh.root.array1.read()
>>> a
array([[[0, 0, 0],
        [0, 0, 0],
        [0, 0, 0]],

       [[0, 0, 0],
        [0, 0, 0],
        [0, 0, 0]]])

that's all. All the headers with info about the object you are saving
are automatically saved and retrieved behind the scenes.

You can get pytables from http://pytables.sf.net

Cheers,

-- 
Francesc Alted

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Todd M. <jm...@st...>]

On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 12:20, Colin J. Williams wrote:
> 
> 
> Todd Miller wrote:
> 
> >On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 09:58, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Todd Miller <jm...@st...> writes:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 18:18, Chris Barker wrote:
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>Todd Miller wrote:
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> >>>>>underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>What is it currently, and what other options are there?
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>The default of underflow is "warn"
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>I much prefer the current default. Having (potential errors) ignored silently
> >>is IMHO against the spirit of python. What's the problem with manually setting
> >>"ignore underflow" if and when one knows that underflows might occur but can
> >>safely be ignored?
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >I'll read that as -1.  :-)
> >
> This proposal leaves the control with the user, which seems to be the 
> best way to go.

Just to be clear,  all we're talking about is the *default* handling of
underflow.  Regardless of what we decide,  underflow handling will be
configurable by the user on a per-thread basis as either: "ignore",
"warn", or "raise".

Todd

> Colin W.
> 
-- 
Todd Miller 			
Space Telescope Science Institute
3700 San Martin Drive
Baltimore MD, 21030
(410) 338 - 4576

Re: [Numpy-discussion] how-to "put" RAM-based numarray into memmap

[Chris B. <Chr...@no...>]

Sebastian Haase wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Suppose I have a 500MB-ram Computer and a 300MB ram-only (standard)
> numarray.
> Now I would like to "save" that onto harddrive (with a small header up
> front

How about:

f = open(filename, 'wb')
f.write(MyHeader)
A.tofile(f)

To read it back in, you need to know where your header ends, by either
parsing it or using one of the same size every time, then you can use
fromfile() to create an array form it.

NOTE: I havn't actaully done this myself, but I've done something bvery
similar with fromstring and tostring with Numeric. I'm very happy that
Numarray has the *file methods, as they don't require an extra copy in
memory.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                    		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chr...@no...

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Colin J. W. <cj...@sy...>]

Todd Miller wrote:

>On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 09:58, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>  
>
>>Todd Miller <jm...@st...> writes:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 18:18, Chris Barker wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Todd Miller wrote:
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
>>>>>underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>What is it currently, and what other options are there?
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>The default of underflow is "warn"
>>>      
>>>
>>I much prefer the current default. Having (potential errors) ignored silently
>>is IMHO against the spirit of python. What's the problem with manually setting
>>"ignore underflow" if and when one knows that underflows might occur but can
>>safely be ignored?
>>    
>>
>
>I'll read that as -1.  :-)
>
This proposal leaves the control with the user, which seems to be the 
best way to go.

Colin W.

[Numpy-discussion] how-to "put" RAM-based numarray into memmap

[Sebastian H. <ha...@ms...>]

Hi,
Suppose I have a 500MB-ram Computer and a 300MB ram-only (standard)
numarray.
Now I would like to "save" that onto harddrive (with a small header up
front - which I know how to do as a memmap record)
Can I somehow "append" a (standard) numarray to a memmap "as a memmap-slice"
?

I obviously could create the corresponding memslice fresh and then assign
the original data elementwise - but that would allocate extra (virtual)
memory...

Thanks,
Sebastian Haase

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Fernando P. <fp...@co...>]

Chris Barker wrote:
> Todd Miller wrote:
> 
>>>>Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
>>>>underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
> 
> 
>>The default of underflow is "warn"
> 
> 
> assuming that ignore means that zero will be used, I vote +1
> 
> If the difference between zero and the smallest floating point number is
> significant in your app, you'd better know what you're doing with
> floating point, and you should then know to set the check to "warn" or
> "raise".

+1 also from me (also as Chris, assuming 'ignore' means replacing with zeros 
and not with NaNs).  Underflow is about the only case of errors where I think 
that silent ignore is a reasonable (if 'unpythonic') policy.

Cheers,

f

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Chris B. <Chr...@no...>]

Todd Miller wrote:
> > > Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> > > underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):

> The default of underflow is "warn"

assuming that ignore means that zero will be used, I vote +1

If the difference between zero and the smallest floating point number is
significant in your app, you'd better know what you're doing with
floating point, and you should then know to set the check to "warn" or
"raise".




-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                    		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chr...@no...

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Todd M. <jm...@st...>]

On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 09:58, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Todd Miller <jm...@st...> writes:
> 
> > On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 18:18, Chris Barker wrote:
> > > Todd Miller wrote:
> > > > Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> > > > underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
> > > 
> > > What is it currently, and what other options are there?
> > 
> > The default of underflow is "warn"
> 
> I much prefer the current default. Having (potential errors) ignored silently
> is IMHO against the spirit of python. What's the problem with manually setting
> "ignore underflow" if and when one knows that underflows might occur but can
> safely be ignored?

I'll read that as -1.  :-)

Todd

> 
> 'as
> 
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Alexander S. <a.s...@gm...>]

Todd Miller <jm...@st...> writes:

> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 18:18, Chris Barker wrote:
> > Todd Miller wrote:
> > > Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> > > underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
> > 
> > What is it currently, and what other options are there?
> 
> The default of underflow is "warn"

I much prefer the current default. Having (potential errors) ignored silently
is IMHO against the spirit of python. What's the problem with manually setting
"ignore underflow" if and when one knows that underflows might occur but can
safely be ignored?

'as

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Pearu P. <pe...@ce...>]

On 21 Nov 2003, Todd Miller wrote:

> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 18:18, Chris Barker wrote:
> > Todd Miller wrote:
> > > Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> > > underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
> > 
> > What is it currently, and what other options are there?
> 
> The default of underflow is "warn"
> 
> Other options are:  "ignore" or "raise"

My votes:
warn: 0
ignore: 0
raise: -1

Pearu

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Todd M. <jm...@st...>]

On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 18:18, Chris Barker wrote:
> Todd Miller wrote:
> > Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> > underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
> 
> What is it currently, and what other options are there?

The default of underflow is "warn"

Other options are:  "ignore" or "raise"

> 
> -Chris
> 
> 
> -- 
> Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
> Oceanographer
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Jon S. <js...@wm...>]

+1

Jon Saenz.				| Tfno: +34 946012445
Depto. Fisica Aplicada II               | Fax:  +34 944648500
Facultad de Ciencias.   \\ Universidad del Pais Vasco \\
Apdo. 644   \\ 48080 - Bilbao  \\ SPAIN

On 20 Nov 2003, Todd Miller wrote:

> Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):
>
> Todd
> --
> Todd Miller
> Space Telescope Science Institute
> 3700 San Martin Drive
> Baltimore MD, 21030
> (410) 338 - 4576
>
>
>
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Chris B. <Chr...@no...>]

Todd Miller wrote:
> Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
> underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):

What is it currently, and what other options are there?

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                    		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chr...@no...

[Numpy-discussion] Community Poll: numarray default underflow handling == "ignore" ?

[Todd M. <jm...@st...>]

Someone recently suggested that we change the default for numarray
underflow checking to "ignore".  Please  vote (+1, 0, -1):

Todd
-- 
Todd Miller 			
Space Telescope Science Institute
3700 San Martin Drive
Baltimore MD, 21030
(410) 338 - 4576

Re: [Numpy-discussion] teacup.py crash

[Todd M. <jm...@st...>]

On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 22:48, Colin J. Williams wrote:
> Running teacup.py, we get:
> 
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "C:\Program
>     Files\Python23\Lib\site-packages\numarray\teacup.py", line 1, in ?
>         import numarray.libteacup
>     ImportError: No module named libteacup
> 
> There is no mention of teacup in numarray-0.6.pdf.

teacup is a partially functional module for measuring  microsecond level
timing under Linux.  It doesn't work yet,  but it's better than starting
from scratch, so I keep it in the distribution.  At some point, it'll
either work or disappear.

> Can this module be safely be deleted?

Yes.

> Colin W
> 
> 
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] Wrong error message

[Todd M. <jm...@st...>]

On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 22:14, Edward C. Jones wrote:
> Here is the program:
> 
>      #! /usr/bin/env python
>      import numarray
>      arr1 = numarray.zeros([3,2,1])
>      arr2 = numarray.zeros([3,2,1])
>      arr2[0] = arr1
> 
> and here is the error message:
> 
>      TypeError: _copyFromAndConvert: non-numarray input.
> 
> Should this program give this error message?

No.  I agree that's a pretty bad message.  Here's what CVS does now:

Traceback (most recent call last):
..
ValueError: Can't use non-rank-0 array as a scalar.

Even the new message is a little obscure;  feel free to suggest
improvements...

Regards,
Todd

> 
> 
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Todd Miller 			
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