Thread: [Noffle-users] complete X-NOFFLE-Status list

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To the documentation please add a table of all the possible
X-NOFFLE-Status headers' meanings and how they might be found combined
on one X-NOFFLE-Status line, and CC it here.

On 28-Sep-2004 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> To the documentation please add a table of all the possible
> X-NOFFLE-Status headers' meanings and how they might be found combined
> on one X-NOFFLE-Status line, and CC it here.

Will this do? As I type this mail, it occurs to me that it doesn't cover the
expected combinations. All articles are marked NOT_DOWNLOADED when initially
created. They are further marked INTERESTING when read or an article that
references them is read, and both articles are known at the time of reading,
and once marked INTERESTING stay so marked. NOT_DOWNLOADED is removed after a
successful download. RETRIEVING_FAILED I think should only appear in
conjunction with both the others, and again is removed after a successful
download.

Q: What are the possible values of the X-NOFFLE-Status: header that
   Noffle adds to messages?

A: The X-NOFFLE-Status: header can contain one, two or all of the
   following, separated by spaces:

     INTERESTING
     - This message should be downloaded on the next fetch, if it has
       not been downloaded already.

     NOT_DOWNLOADED
     - The article has not yet been downloaded.

     RETRIEVING_FAILED
     - An attempt was made to retrieve the article from upstream, but
       the attempt failed.

-- 
Jim Hague - jim...@ac...          Never trust a computer you can't lift.

Well still sometimes there are articles with empty X-NOFFLE-Status's.
I saw some for some filter action=over matching articles.

Also noffle -a on articles fetched by early noffle versions seem to
have empty X-NOFFLE-Status.

By the way, if a filter matches, maybe a header about it with details
could be added to the message.  SpamAssassin adds them, matches or
not, so noffle could perhaps add them for matches.

Jim>      INTERESTING
Jim>      - This message should be downloaded on the next fetch, if it has
Jim>        not been downloaded already.

Any antidotes in case we accidentally cause "Garage Sale Last Thursday
in Fergus Falls" to be marked INTERESTING?  Does tampering with
var/spool/noffle/outgoing/* affect it?

P.S. seeing X-NOFFLE-Status now in the gnus summary buffer has added
new colour to my life.  A new air of command has swept over me.  As
Aerosmith said: back in the saddle again.

On 30-Sep-2004 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> Well still sometimes there are articles with empty X-NOFFLE-Status's.
> I saw some for some filter action=over matching articles.

You're quite right. I just did a 'noffle -a all' and got several recent
articles with empty X-NOFFLE-Status, so I've missed a bit of analysis somewhere.

Oh, of course. If a group is subscribed in 'full', articles will be downloaded
regardless of their INTERESTING status. So, since I subscribe to everything in
'full', only the articles I've actually read should have an INTERESTING status.
I'll update the FAQ text.

> By the way, if a filter matches, maybe a header about it with details
> could be added to the message.  SpamAssassin adds them, matches or
> not, so noffle could perhaps add them for matches.
> 
> Jim>      INTERESTING
> Jim>      - This message should be downloaded on the next fetch, if it has
> Jim>        not been downloaded already.

> Any antidotes in case we accidentally cause "Garage Sale Last Thursday
> in Fergus Falls" to be marked INTERESTING?  Does tampering with
> var/spool/noffle/outgoing/* affect it?

Not right now, I'm afraid. Fiddling with outgoing will stop it being downloaded
on the next fetch (I think), but it will remain marked as INTERESTING and get
added to the queue again.

I really should do something about that. How does this sound - add a new
option,

        -U, --uninteresting <msgid>

to allow you to remove the interesting tag from an article and remove it from
the current requested queue, if on it.

I suppose

        -b, --boring <msgid>

could be a synonym :-)

-- 
Jim Hague - jim...@ac...          Never trust a computer you can't lift.

Jim> How does this sound - add a new option,

Jim>         -U, --uninteresting <msgid>

Yes, good to have at least this way to unrequest articles.

Guess what I caught that nasty noffle doing?
Whenever you read an article it causes a request for all its parents.
Indeed,
J> They are further marked INTERESTING when read or an article that
J> references them is read
J>      INTERESTING
J>      - This message should be downloaded on the next fetch, if it has
J>        not been downloaded already.
and this was in overview mode too. I've never used thread mode.
It turn out that (except for perhaps noffle -a) there's just no
concept of reading a single article. Oh no, plenty of background
material for we avid readers.  No jumping to conclusions without
dragging all the postulates down our modem to boot.

Indeed, young Dan was mislead by the man page:
       over   fetch  only  article  overviews  by  default. Opening an article
              marks it for download next time online,

       thread like over, but download articles full if an article of the  same
              thread already has been downloaded.

Note how "over" doesn't mention the free Encyclopedia Britannica you
unknowing also sign up for each fateful press of the spacebar. "I made
a date with the daughter, only to find her parents along for the ride too."

On 15-Oct-2004 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> Whenever you read an article it causes a request for all its parents.
> Indeed,
> J> They are further marked INTERESTING when read or an article that
> J> references them is read
> J>      INTERESTING
> J>      - This message should be downloaded on the next fetch, if it has
> J>        not been downloaded already.
> and this was in overview mode too. I've never used thread mode.

I don't think it's only you that has never used thread mode :-)

I've had a good look through the Noffle code, and I can't see how reading an
article can cause anything other than that article to be fetched, UNLESS Noffle
is in 'online' mode. In online mode, when you read an article that isn't
currently fetched, Noffle goes and fetches it immediately. It also, for reasons
that (a) escape and (b) baffle me, marks all articles referenced by that
article as INTERESTING. Dan, you're not seeing this while in online mode are
you?

This behaviour seems to have been around for a loooonnnngggg time (looking
closer, it appears that Noffle did at one time always mark articles referenced
from a read article as INTERESTING, regardless of online mode.

If no-one objects, I think I might take this bit of code around the back and
shoot it.

-- 
Jim Hague - jim...@ac...          Never trust a computer you can't lift.

J> Dan, you're not seeing this while in online mode are you?

My experiment was done --offline.

J> This behaviour seems to have been around for a loooonnnngggg time (looking
J> closer, it appears that Noffle did at one time always mark articles referenced
J> from a read article as INTERESTING, regardless of online mode.

NOFFLE version 1.1.5 here on Debian. I could see what was going on in
the gnus subject buffer thanks to the gnus code I recently posted.

J> If no-one objects, I think I might take this bit of code around the back and
J> shoot it.

Yes. Boom.

On 21-Oct-2004 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> J> Dan, you're not seeing this while in online mode are you?
> 
> My experiment was done --offline.

OK. I've had another look and am now very puzzled as to why I thought this
happened in --online only. I think I believed a code comment, always a
dangerous thing to do.

> J> If no-one objects, I think I might take this bit of code around the back
> J> and shoot it.
> 
> Yes. Boom.

The deed is now done.

-- 
Jim Hague - jim...@ac...          Never trust a computer you can't lift.

Ok, parents are marked INTERESTING NOT DOWNLOADED. I'm not sure if
they later actually get downloaded, but still, in principle in
overview mode, let's no affect other articles at all.

In mere overview mode it was revealed that
> Whenever you read an article it causes a request for all its parents.
Interesting that at least they had the mercy to spare the children.
Maybe they thought rounding up the children would be an endless daily task,
whilst the parents are easily identifiable. Anyways, all this dragging
in of other articles has to go.  Or we need more mode names.

Thread: [Noffle-users] complete X-NOFFLE-Status list

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