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From: Nicholas C. <ni...@cc...> - 2002-11-13 09:42:19
|
On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 09:24:54AM +0000, Nick Cleaton wrote:
> The right way to get correct header line endings for the platform is with
> CGI.pm's header() function, but older versions of CGI.pm don't support the
> -charset option to header(), so we can't just put:
>
> print header('-type'=>'text/html', '-charset'=>$charset);
>
> and have it work back to 5.00404. I've tested
>
> print header('-type' => "text/html; charset=$charset");
>
> in both 5.00404 and 5.008, and it works without warnings.
>
> I propose that we change any scripts that roll their own CGI headers over
> to this second way of doing it, and hope no future version of CGI.pm adds
> a warning for this type of abuse of -type.
>
> Thoughts ?
We're trying to suggest best practice, aren't we?
I'd feel happier with something longer, such as
if ($] >= 5.005) {
# This is the correct way to set the charset
print header('-type'=>'text/html', '-charset'=>$charset);
} else {
# However the CGI.pm supplied with perl before 5.005 doesn't have the
# -charset option so we cheat:
print header('-type' => "text/html; charset=$charset");
}
Is there actually an explanation tutorial that goes with the code? Or do
all the design decisions rest in the fading memories of the contributors?
Presumably inline design decisions in =pod could be cut out automatically
by whatever is rolling the distribution up from the CVS version. (if this
feature is wanted)
Nicholas Clark
|
|
From: Nick C. <ni...@cl...> - 2002-11-13 09:22:34
|
Some of the scripts roll their own CGI headers with stuff like
print <<END
Content-type: text/html; charset=$charset
END
which gave one user a problem because his web server insisted on \015\012
CGI header line endings.
The right way to get correct header line endings for the platform is with
CGI.pm's header() function, but older versions of CGI.pm don't support the
-charset option to header(), so we can't just put:
print header('-type'=>'text/html', '-charset'=>$charset);
and have it work back to 5.00404. I've tested
print header('-type' => "text/html; charset=$charset");
in both 5.00404 and 5.008, and it works without warnings.
I propose that we change any scripts that roll their own CGI headers over
to this second way of doing it, and hope no future version of CGI.pm adds
a warning for this type of abuse of -type.
Thoughts ?
--
Nick
|
|
From: Barbie <ba...@qi...> - 2002-11-12 12:24:10
|
From: "Nick Cleaton" <ni...@cl...>
> A novice friendly document on getting started with uploading and running
> Perl CGIs would be a good thing to have, certainly.
>
> There needn't be anything NMS specific about it, so if done well it
> could provide a useful resource for other Perl/CGI projects to link to.
I'll give it a go :)
> I wander if someone already has a good one somewhere.
I was going to look through various help documentation available for FTP
clients and see whether there is a general theme that we can use.
> Currently, the autoinstall CGI installs its copy of MIME/Lite.pm into
> the script's lib directory if "eval {require MIME::Lite}" chokes.
sounds like a good way to go.
> > In addition will the autoinstall be only for Linux/UNIX users? As I've
> > mentioned above there are Windows users out there, and there should be
no
> > reason why any of these scripts can't run under ActivePerl. I haven't
tried
> > out tfmail_ai so apologies if this is already a consideration.
>
> By windows user you mean someone with a windows web server, right ?
Yep.
> The autoinstall CGI tries to be windows server friendly, I've only been
able
> to test it against IIS4/NT4 though.
I would imagine that most Windows servers will be running on NT or Win2k, so
this should be fine. I'll try it on my Win98 box at some point too.
Barbie.
|
|
From: Nick C. <ni...@cl...> - 2002-11-12 11:42:37
|
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 10:53:20AM -0000, Barbie wrote: > > Over the next few weeks I'll have a look at some of the FTP clients for > Windows and try and write some reasonable documentation for them. In the > meantime it might be worth re-reading any documentation people have written > and make sure they are Windows novice user friendly. A novice friendly document on getting started with uploading and running Perl CGIs would be a good thing to have, certainly. There needn't be anything NMS specific about it, so if done well it could provide a useful resource for other Perl/CGI projects to link to. I wander if someone already has a good one somewhere. > > When each script is released, 3 different packages will be generated for > > it, and the end user can choose which they want: > > I like this idea, as that gives the user a bit more control over what they > do with the script. However, there are two further options. Having recently > looked at Movable Type (http://www.movabletype.org/), their download archive > file includes all the modules that are required by their suite of scripts, > which you have the option of including in the lib directory under cgi-bin or > ignoring completely. > > The two additional packages would be the files in (1) together with required > modules, and the autoinstall (3) including the required modules. I was thinking that all packages would include all required modules anyway, since we don't have many CPAN dependencies and those that we do are things like MIME::Lite which come as a single .pm file. Currently, the autoinstall CGI installs its copy of MIME/Lite.pm into the script's lib directory if "eval {require MIME::Lite}" chokes. > In addition will the autoinstall be only for Linux/UNIX users? As I've > mentioned above there are Windows users out there, and there should be no > reason why any of these scripts can't run under ActivePerl. I haven't tried > out tfmail_ai so apologies if this is already a consideration. By windows user you mean someone with a windows web server, right ? The autoinstall CGI tries to be windows server friendly, I've only been able to test it against IIS4/NT4 though. -- Nick |
|
From: Dave C. <da...@da...> - 2002-11-12 11:04:54
|
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 10:53:20AM -0000, Barbie (ba...@qi...) wrote: > > Another thing I think that is worth mentioning, is the layout of the current > public site. While it does the job, compared to other less preferable sites > it doesn't look as professional. Even Matt's site looks alot more inviting. > Seeing as I'm going to have some CFT in a few weeks time, I'll be happy to > have a go at making it a bit more inviting. I was holding off on this as I had an Information Architect who was going to look at it for me. But as she has far less CFT currently that seems unlikely to happen. So, yes, please do make suggestions for improvement. Dave... -- Drugs are just bad m'kay |
|
From: Barbie <ba...@qi...> - 2002-11-12 10:53:28
|
One thing to look at is the documentation for all scripts. I recently had an email from a guy, who had responded to a letter of mine that was published in Streetwise Profits, where I had called into question the editor of the letters page for actively promoting Matt's Script Archive. I alerted readers to the existence of NMS, and this guy had followed my advice and downloaded the FormMail script from NMS. Unfortunately he, like other users from the look of things, are not as technical as we are, and many are Windows users who are using FTP apps to send their stuff to the server. The documentation in FormMail, and others I think, isn't really FTP client friendly, as this guy got stuck on the "chmod +x formmail.pl" line. He didn't know what a command line was, never mind what chmod did. While some may think we should be aiming at technical users, the people these scripts are aimed at are likely to not know alot about Linux/UNIX or be using an ssh or telnet console to do the job. Over the next few weeks I'll have a look at some of the FTP clients for Windows and try and write some reasonable documentation for them. In the meantime it might be worth re-reading any documentation people have written and make sure they are Windows novice user friendly. > When each script is released, 3 different packages will be generated for > it, and the end user can choose which they want: I like this idea, as that gives the user a bit more control over what they do with the script. However, there are two further options. Having recently looked at Movable Type (http://www.movabletype.org/), their download archive file includes all the modules that are required by their suite of scripts, which you have the option of including in the lib directory under cgi-bin or ignoring completely. The two additional packages would be the files in (1) together with required modules, and the autoinstall (3) including the required modules. In addition will the autoinstall be only for Linux/UNIX users? As I've mentioned above there are Windows users out there, and there should be no reason why any of these scripts can't run under ActivePerl. I haven't tried out tfmail_ai so apologies if this is already a consideration. > This will mean a more complex release process, with quite a lot of Perl > generating the scripts from the sources in CVS. Providing the pages of links for each are held separately, and a download page first asks what type of install they require, then it shouldn't be too confusing. As long as we make it as easy as possible for both novice and experienced users to get at what they want, I think we'll have them coming back for more. Another thing I think that is worth mentioning, is the layout of the current public site. While it does the job, compared to other less preferable sites it doesn't look as professional. Even Matt's site looks alot more inviting. Seeing as I'm going to have some CFT in a few weeks time, I'll be happy to have a go at making it a bit more inviting. Barbie. |
|
From: Nick C. <ni...@cl...> - 2002-11-12 09:14:50
|
There have been lots of suggestions for things we might add to this
project. Here's the outline of a release scheme that might fit most
of them in somewhere.
We pull out common functionality between scripts into modules where it
makes sense, and the 'master' versions of the scripts that we have in
CVS use those modules in the normal Perl 'use The::Module;' way.
When each script is released, 3 different packages will be generated for
it, and the end user can choose which they want:
1) The traditional perl way, with the script using the modules, the
modules bundled into the packages with instructions for the end user
to install both modules and scripts on the web server.
TFmail currently works like this.
2) The modules inlined into the body of the script, so that as far as
the end user can see they're just editing and uploading a single
large stand alone CGI script.
wwwboard.pl currently looks like this.
3) Scripts(s) and modules(s) are incorporated into a self extracting
and configuring autoinstall CGI, which the end user just uploads
and runs.
tfmail_ai (sourceforge download page only) currently works like
this.
This will mean a more complex release process, with quite a lot of Perl
generating the scripts from the sources in CVS.
--
Nick
|
|
From: Nick C. <ni...@cl...> - 2002-11-06 22:44:42
|
On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 02:22:29PM -0800, Nick Cleaton wrote: > > Added Files: > MANIFEST Makefile README tfmail_autoinstall.pl > Log Message: > * added an autoinstalled version of TFmail I've created a package for this on the sourceforge download page, but tagged it as alpha and left it out of scripts.shtml on the main page. This is intended to address the "argh, too many files to upload" problem with TFmail. The end user uploads and runs a single large CGI script, which then walks them through the process of installing TFmail before self destructing. Doubtless full of bugs and missing features - much testing required. -- Nick |
|
From: Nick C. <ni...@cl...> - 2002-11-04 09:14:21
|
On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 05:37:24AM +0000, Dave Cross wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 02:02:49PM +1100, Iain Truskett (ic...@eh...) wrote: > > > > Would I be mad to suggest we use some sort of ticketing thing (like RT)? > > I do quite like the idea of a tracker - and sourceforge gives us the > capability of setting up as many as we need for our project - but > I have a few of small worries. I do all of my NMS support on the train in the morning, so I won't be able to use a tracker that requires interaction (either web or via a send-email-and-wait-for-reply process) to answer questions and mark issues solved. -- Nick |
|
From: Dave C. <da...@da...> - 2002-10-31 15:00:57
|
On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 09:01:22AM -0800, info (in...@b4...) wrote: > Hello David, > > I was offering help in the support area, > I'm not a programmer per se but I have installed many scripts > from simple guestbooks to shopping carts. I usually work in a > unix/linux environment but assume that the perl scripts work > cross platform as long as the path to the perl interpreter is correct. That most certainly _is_ something we need right now. Please join the support list (http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nms-cgi-support) and feel free to start answering queries. Many thanks, Dave... -- It was long ago and it was far away And it was so much better that it is today |
|
From: info <in...@b4...> - 2002-10-31 14:54:17
|
Hello David, I was offering help in the support area, I'm not a programmer per se but I have installed many scripts from simple guestbooks to shopping carts. I usually work in a unix/linux environment but assume that the perl scripts work cross platform as long as the path to the perl interpreter is correct. If this is something the project needs I would be happy to assist, Thank you Bill W At 01:40 PM 10/31/2002 +0000, Dave Cross wrote: >On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 07:28:38AM -0800, info (in...@b4...) wrote: > > Greetings > > > > I have submitted an offer to help several times and have never > > received a reply. > > Maybe a ticketing system is needed here too. (LOL) > >I'm sorry about that. Occasionally offers do slip thru the net :-/ > >What were you offering to help on? As you can see what we _really_ need >right now is more people helping out on the support mailing list, but >anything that you can bring to the project would be much appreciated. > >Dave... > >-- > "Don't you boys know any _nice_ songs?" |
|
From: Dave C. <da...@da...> - 2002-10-31 13:43:33
|
On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 07:28:38AM -0800, info (in...@b4...) wrote: > Greetings > > I have submitted an offer to help several times and have never > received a reply. > Maybe a ticketing system is needed here too. (LOL) I'm sorry about that. Occasionally offers do slip thru the net :-/ What were you offering to help on? As you can see what we _really_ need right now is more people helping out on the support mailing list, but anything that you can bring to the project would be much appreciated. Dave... -- "Don't you boys know any _nice_ songs?" |
|
From: info <in...@b4...> - 2002-10-31 13:21:46
|
Greetings I have submitted an offer to help several times and have never received a reply. Maybe a ticketing system is needed here too. (LOL) Bill W At 05:37 AM 10/31/2002 +0000, Dave Cross wrote: >Let me turn the question on its head - why aren't more of you helping >out with support? > >Dave... |
|
From: Dave C. <da...@da...> - 2002-10-31 08:55:31
|
Is there anyone out there who'd like to take on this (hopefully) simple project? Let me know. Dave... ----- Forwarded message from Barbara Kendal <ba...@th...> ----- To: nms...@li... From: Barbara Kendal <ba...@th...> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:22:11 +0100 Is there any (simple!) way that simple search could be adapted to search for a phrase as well as "All words" or "Any word". My site has a lot of orienteering results and while people with unusual first names or surnames are OK, people called 'John Smith' are finding all the pages with John and Smith on them - which is every page! Thanks for your help, -- Barbara Kendal ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Influence the future of Java(TM) technology. Join the Java Community Process(SM) (JCP(SM)) program now. http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?sunm0004en _______________________________________________ IMPORTANT NOTE: Please use mail software's "Reply-All" or "Reply Group" feature when replying to this mail. Just using "Reply" _won't_ send the mail to the mailing list. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Love is a fire of flaming brandy Upon a crepe suzette |
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From: Dave C. <da...@da...> - 2002-10-31 05:40:05
|
Oops. Meant to send this to the developers list. ----- Forwarded message from Dave Cross <da...@da...> ----- From: Dave Cross <da...@da...> To: nms...@li... Subject: Re: [Nms-cgi-support] Support Mailing List Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 05:22:27 +0000 [moved to the devel list as that's where this discussion is most appropriate - and where i meant to send the first email anyway] On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 02:02:49PM +1100, Iain Truskett (ic...@eh...) wrote: > * Dave Cross (da...@da...) [30 Oct 2002 20:51]: > > I'm becoming painfully aware that more and more emails to the support > > mailing list are not getting answered. > > Would I be mad to suggest we use some sort of ticketing thing (like RT)? I do quite like the idea of a tracker - and sourceforge gives us the capability of setting up as many as we need for our project - but I have a few of small worries. 1/ Our target audience isn't very technical. Will they understand the concept of a tracker? 2/ The few trackers that we have currently for the project seem to be largely ignored. 3/ A tracker is good at telling us which requests haven't been addressed, but will it really help with the main problem - which seems to be that not enough people are willing to get involved with supporting the project. Let me turn the question on its head - why aren't more of you helping out with support? Dave... -- And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race Lost in time, and lost in space. And meaning. ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Influence the future of Java(TM) technology. Join the Java Community Process(SM) (JCP(SM)) program now. http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?sunm0004en _______________________________________________ IMPORTANT NOTE: Please use mail software's "Reply-All" or "Reply Group" feature when replying to this mail. Just using "Reply" _won't_ send the mail to the mailing list. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Love is a fire of flaming brandy Upon a crepe suzette |
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From: Dave C. <da...@da...> - 2002-10-30 09:14:50
|
On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 02:30:57PM -0700, Lochmatter Thomas (loc...@us...) wrote: > Hello > > I added a tracker to the nms project on September > 14. Unfortunately, I did not receive any answer on > that, neither saw I a note on the sourceforge > webpage about it. That's why I contact you directly. Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been on holiday - that's why we encourage people to use our mailing lists instead of emailing individuals. I shpould probably just close the trackers. They tend to get ignored. We do all of our business on the mailing lists. I've copied this reply to the developers list. > We (ISP) use the nms formmail as a replacement > for Matt's formmail, but we would still need some > features. One of them is the "secure" referer > check, as described in my tracker message. > In between, I added this in the script by myself. (For the support list, the tracker request is at <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=614000&group_id=39625&atid=425772>) > Still, I would like to have your formmail a little bit > better structured and extensible. That is because > we use some specials that we don't want to adapt > each time when a new version comes out. It would > be convenient for us to have is object oriented. > > If you are interested, I can give you the code for > this referer check. But I know that such features > unnecessarily blow up the code. That is why I > would like to have it better structured. > > In general, the nms scripts are very useful - thank > you for your work. Hopefully we can now get some discussion going on the the mailing lists. Dave... -- Drugs are just bad m'kay |
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From: Teun <te...@ch...> - 2002-10-28 00:05:25
|
I've been working on a webmail client. A somewhat older version is also in cvs, and for a demo one can look here: http://pearlshed.nl/cgi-bin/WebMail.pl I must warn you: it is far from perfect/finished. It also has some featues (like a list of dutch isp's) that will not be in the final version. Some issues: - Still uses external modules (MIME::Parser & more) - Not well-documented yet (between the code) - No pod yet - not full-featured yet (currently working on attachments d/l) - not split up in the correct subs yet (so interfaces to subs not final) If you are kind enough to take a look at it, please give me as much feedback as possible. Feel free to be blunt. Would a webmail client be a good thing for nms? Teun |
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From: Teun <te...@ch...> - 2002-10-27 23:58:51
|
Maybe it'd be handy to have a somewhat more extensice description in the 'The Scripts' area http://nms-cgi.sourceforge.net/scripts.shtml (why isn't it called 'downloads'? Maybe not everybody understands what 'Simple database of web links' or 'Display a random image using SSI' means. Teun |
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From: Teun <te...@ch...> - 2002-10-27 23:56:03
|
It might be nice to make a list with scripts that we'd like to have in the future. That might make Perl developers more enthusiastic about helping nms. What might be on the list? 1. a webmail client (like twigger) - more on that later 2. a shopping cart system 3. a very very basic content management system what else could be on the list? I might be thinking up too complicated scripts. Teun |
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From: Teun <te...@ch...> - 2002-10-27 23:50:05
|
A lot (well.. at least some) of ideas for nms are going through my head and i'd like to post them here in devel. The current nms logo is bery clean and clear (who made it?), but maybe not the best in the world. Would it be a good idea to have a logo contest for nms? Perhaps some of our users are familiar with fotoshop or illustrator. If they submit their work... something beautiful might come up. Teun |
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From: Thomas L. <sou...@lo...> - 2002-10-27 23:16:34
|
Nick Cleaton <ni...@cl...> wrote: > NMS scripts must run without warnings under -wT, and formmail-oo doesn't > yet. > > Your use of the 'our' keyword means that perl 5.6 or newer is needed, > and NMS scripts must work with perls back to 5.00404. > > NMS aims to be useful to non-technical end users, whereas formmail-oo > seems to concentrate on being extensible by technical users. While > formmail-oo provides a nice starting point for a technical user to kick > off from, I can see non-technical users getting into an awful mess > by trying to extend it. NMS attracts a lot of non-technical users, and > I don't want to end up trying to patch them up after they've shot > themselves in the foot with formmail-oo and then limped bleeding to the > support list. I agree with all the points you mentionned. Especially the amount of support could be much bigger. I saw that you were discussing about modular versions of your scripts a few month ago. There I also read about the idea to create a "sister project" for that. Do you intend to do that? Is there something planned? Thomas |
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From: Nick C. <ni...@cl...> - 2002-10-26 21:26:21
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On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 03:31:05PM +0200, Thomas Lochmatter wrote: > It is now available on > http://www.lothosoft.ch/thomas/formmail-oo/formmail-oo.zip > Note that I haven't tested it much. Due to my limited time, the > documentation is very short. If you have questions, don't hestitate to ask. That's a nice script, I certainly think you should put in the time to document and test it and then release it. There are a number of reasons why it might not be suitable for NMS though: NMS scripts must run without warnings under -wT, and formmail-oo doesn't yet. Your use of the 'our' keyword means that perl 5.6 or newer is needed, and NMS scripts must work with perls back to 5.00404. NMS aims to be useful to non-technical end users, whereas formmail-oo seems to concentrate on being extensible by technical users. While formmail-oo provides a nice starting point for a technical user to kick off from, I can see non-technical users getting into an awful mess by trying to extend it. NMS attracts a lot of non-technical users, and I don't want to end up trying to patch them up after they've shot themselves in the foot with formmail-oo and then limped bleeding to the support list. Have you considered releasing it somewhere like www.freshmeat.net, so that it gets a more technical userbase than it would have as an NMS script ? -- Nick |
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From: Thomas L. <sou...@lo...> - 2002-10-26 13:29:16
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It is now available on http://www.lothosoft.ch/thomas/formmail-oo/formmail-oo.zip Note that I haven't tested it much. Due to my limited time, the documentation is very short. If you have questions, don't hestitate to ask. Most of the features of the original formmail are included, sometimes a bit differently. Mail message and html response to the user are nearly the same. The error messages are translatable into different languages. But I did not yet finish writing them in english. So you might see error codes like "FormMail::Handler::Check::Recipient->err_rules" instead of a comprehensible message. But they can easily be added in the module FormMail::Language::English. Regards, Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Cleaton" <ni...@cl...> To: "Thomas Lochmatter" <sou...@lo...> Cc: <nms...@li...> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [Nms-cgi-devel] nms-FormMail-OO > On Wed, Oct 23, 2002 at 11:50:20PM +0200, Thomas Lochmatter wrote: > > I've rewritten FormMail in Perl-OO-style. The features are quite the same > > and so are the requirements. Instead of one huge script, it contains a dozen > > of perl classes, well structured and ready to extend. The "handler" classes > > can be overwritten or new "handlers" may be added. > > It is thus much more extensible and lets more possibilities than just a few > > configuration lines. > > > > Of course, it does not replace the current nms-formmail, which is easier to > > handle (one large file) if one is happy with the functionality. > > > > Are you interested in adding this as a subproject (eg. "formmail-oo") to > > your project, I would provide my code as open source. > > I'd certainly be interested in taking a look at that - can you upload it > somewhere ? > > -- > Nick > |
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From: Barbie <ba...@qi...> - 2002-10-24 16:20:10
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From: "Teun" <te...@ch...> > This document on sf.net describes how to use WinCVS + PuTTY SSH > This has a tool that stores the password somewhere for you. > > http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=766&group_id=1 Yep works a treat now :) Thanks. Barbie. |
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From: Teun <te...@ch...> - 2002-10-24 10:32:53
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> Click on the Create option in the toolbar and then Checkout > Module to bring > up the dialog box. In order to connect to the NMS CVS repository > you'll need > to have an ssh client available.After attempting several, the one > available > from www.ssh.com proved simple and painless to install and get > working with > CVS. Note that you need to setup the configuration to ensure CVS > knows where > the SSH app is. There is documentation on this at > http://minimal.cx/wincvsssh.php under "wincvs setup". > > One thing to bear in mind though is that you'll need to checkout > each module > (script bundle) individually, and enter your shh password each > time. Unless > anyone knows of a better way of storing your password locally? This document on sf.net describes how to use WinCVS + PuTTY SSH This has a tool that stores the password somewhere for you. http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=766&group_id=1 Teun |
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