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From: <hp...@we...> - 2022-06-27 23:49:00
|
Hi René! Am 27.06.2022 um 17:00 schrieb René Jansen: > [...] > That it works for you does not means it is not going to be fixed. Yes please, the 256 bytes of the transliteration table takes some 16 funny lines of code where a single line would be enough. /M. |
|
From: René J. <rvj...@xs...> - 2022-06-27 19:35:50
|
Hi Leslie, I was looking into this problem but could not reproduce: pipe (orx_downloads) literal curl https://sourceforge.net/projects/oorexx/files/oorexx/5.0.0beta/ | command | split | locate +href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/oorexx/files+ | nlocate /readme.md/ specs 7-* 1 | reverse | specs 2-* 1 | reverse | o: fanout | specs 77-* 1 | reverse | specs 10-* 1 | reverse | b: juxtapose | sort desc | specs /[/ 1 1-5 nw 7-11 nw 13-* nw /)/ nw | change /href/ /] (href/ | cons ? o: | insert / / b: ➜ test git:(master) ✗ pipc oorexx_downloads.njp pipe (orx_downloads ) literal curl https://sourceforge.net/projects/oorexx/files/oorexx/5.0.0beta/ | command | split | locate +href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/oorexx/files+ | nlocate /readme.md/ specs 7-* 1 | reverse | specs 2-* 1 | reverse | o: fanout | specs 77-* 1 | reverse | specs 10-* 1 | reverse | b: juxtapose | sort desc | specs /[/ 1 1-5 nw 7-11 nw 13-* nw /)/ nw | change /href/ /] (href/ | cons ? o: | insert / / (And I verified the classes were generated). Do you have the source file for the original issue somewhere? Best regards, René. |
|
From: Jeff H. <Je...@Je...> - 2022-06-27 16:47:33
|
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<p>Mike,</p>
<p>First let me make clear that I am not an XLATE "expert." I did
not write the XLATE stage for NetRexx, René did a long time
ago, it has a copyright date of 1998. I did add the input range
handling, back
then too. <br>
</p>
<p>I know little of what the XLATE stage is supposed to do or how it
does it. I have used it for case conversion, and wrote 8 simple
verification tests ( xlate_tests01.njp ).</p>
<p>As for the published NetRexx documentation for it, I am
responsible, bearing in mind the above. Mostly I copied it from
the IBM publication. I stand ready to improve it in any way I
can. Here is a special Thank You on this point. I just looked at
the xlate.nrx source code and see some different and additional
documentation there. I will work at consolidating all these for
the next release.<br>
</p>
<p>Also welcomed would be any additional verification tests.
Especially any showing erroneous results from the current
version. For these, I would need three pieces of information:</p>
<ol>
<li>the test XLATE stage</li>
<li>test input data; in the case of this stage, only a single line
would be needed but multiples to show different points can be
used<br>
</li>
<li>the expected output (for each input line); and if currently a
failure, I'd like that output too</li>
</ol>
<p>More comments interspersed below.</p>
<p>Jeff<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/27/2022 8:48 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hp...@we...">hp...@we...</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2d4...@we...">Hi!
<br>
<br>
First, the good news: I replaced my simple attempt of
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">xlate 1 00-FF 3A 20-3F 20-3F 40-5F 00-1f
60-66 40-46
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
(what failed) by a even more simple 'a: xlate 1' and feeding the
<br>
transliteration table (I prepared on another system) to secondary
<br>
input. This option works as designed.
<br>
</blockquote>
<p>Great. There is also a possible hint in IBM's Note "4. Use a
cascade of xlate stages to perform stepwise translation." and that
you might be able to generate your external table that way. But
it is beyond me.</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2d4...@we...">
<br>
Bad news, I have questions (one remark and a question):
<br>
</blockquote>
Questions, and corrections, are always considered good news and
welcomed by me. Remarks, also (usually!).<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2d4...@we...">
<br>
i) the NetRexx Pipelines Guide and Reference shows in the RRT
<br>
diagram (RRT = Rail-Road-Track) for more than a single inputRange
<br>
of XLATE to put it in brackets, but, as the repeat-track implies,
<br>
to repeat also the brackets. That's wrong, same error in author's
<br>
edition.
<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2d4...@we...">
<blockquote type="cite">pipe literal aaaaaaa!xlate (1 5) a b!term
<br>
baaabaa
<br>
Ready;
<br>
pipe literal aaaaaaa!xlate (1) (5) a b!term
<br>
FPLXLA052E Unknown translate table "(5)".
<br>
FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 2 of pipeline 1.
<br>
FPLSCA001I ... Running "xlate (1) (5) a b".
<br>
Ready(00052);
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Same holds true for NetRexx Pipelines, with a slightly different
<br>
error message and deviating RC.
<br>
</blockquote>
Thanks. I'll fix this. (It is correct in the IBM 7.1 User's Guide
and Reference.)
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2d4...@we...">
<br>
ii) the NetRexx Pipelines Guide and Reference shows as only
<br>
"documentation" for XLATE a RRT-diagram, but no additional
<br>
information than which of the default-table arguments are not
<br>
implemented. (BTW, shouldn't 'UPper' stand above the "main track"
<br>
since it's the default if no other arguments are entered?)
<br>
Marked as not yet in Pipes for NetRexx are 'OUTput' and 'TO/FROM
<br>
CODEPAGE n', but not 'INput'. For CMS input and output options of
<br>
the XLATE stage are related to the input and output settings.
<br>
<br>
Question: what is under Windows the corresponding parallel of CMS
<br>
input setting?
<br>
</blockquote>
<p>Sorry, I have no idea of what INput and OUTput are supposed to do
or what they might be related to in any system. I can find no
further reference to them in either IBM documentation.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(I find the XLATE IBM documentation to be harder to understand
than most. For example, I have no idea of the use of all those
Codepages, or why one would use them here other than that one
can go FROM one TO another. But why, and how one goes from a
language with umlauts to one with tildes is a mystery to me. Is
there a good reason that "500 EBCDIC Belgium, Canada,
Switzerland, International Latin-1. International number 5. This
is the base codepage for xlate." rather than say, "285 EBCDIC
United Kingdom." or "37 EBCDIC United States, Canada,
Netherlands, Portugal, Brazil, Australia,
New Zealand." and how should I decide between that and "274
EBCDIC Belgium." if I am really interested in Belgium?</p>
<p>Also, mentioned only in passing in a footnote is "E2A". [The
xlate.nrx internal documentation says E2A (EBCDIC to ASCII) and
A2E (ASCII to EBCDIC) are options instead of UPper and LOWer in
NetRexx Pipelines. ] )<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2d4...@we...">
<br>
Best,
<br>
M.
<br>
</blockquote>
<p>As always, Thank You for helping me gain some understanding and
improve the code and its documentation.</p>
<p>Jeff<br>
</p>
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From: René J. <rvj...@xs...> - 2022-06-27 15:00:29
|
Hi Mike, That is good news. The bad news is that I verified some bugs in XLATE. When I made that I only had the BatchPipeWorks manual for testcases. It clears a lot of cases but it also fails some of them. That it works for you does not means it is not going to be fixed. René. > On 27 Jun 2022, at 14:48, hp...@we... wrote: > > Hi! > > First, the good news: I replaced my simple attempt of > >> xlate 1 00-FF 3A 20-3F 20-3F 40-5F 00-1f 60-66 40-46 > > (what failed) by a even more simple 'a: xlate 1' and feeding the > transliteration table (I prepared on another system) to secondary > input. This option works as designed. > > Bad news, I have questions (one remark and a question): > > i) the NetRexx Pipelines Guide and Reference shows in the RRT > diagram (RRT = Rail-Road-Track) for more than a single inputRange > of XLATE to put it in brackets, but, as the repeat-track implies, > to repeat also the brackets. That's wrong, same error in author's > edition. > >> pipe literal aaaaaaa!xlate (1 5) a b!term >> baaabaa >> Ready; >> pipe literal aaaaaaa!xlate (1) (5) a b!term >> FPLXLA052E Unknown translate table "(5)". >> FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 2 of pipeline 1. >> FPLSCA001I ... Running "xlate (1) (5) a b". >> Ready(00052); > > Same holds true for NetRexx Pipelines, with a slightly different > error message and deviating RC. > > ii) the NetRexx Pipelines Guide and Reference shows as only > "documentation" for XLATE a RRT-diagram, but no additional > information than which of the default-table arguments are not > implemented. (BTW, shouldn't 'UPper' stand above the "main track" > since it's the default if no other arguments are entered?) > Marked as not yet in Pipes for NetRexx are 'OUTput' and 'TO/FROM > CODEPAGE n', but not 'INput'. For CMS input and output options of > the XLATE stage are related to the input and output settings. > > Question: what is under Windows the corresponding parallel of CMS > input setting? > > Best, > M. > > > _______________________________________________ > netrexx-pipelines mailing list > net...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines |
|
From: <hp...@we...> - 2022-06-27 12:52:07
|
Hi! First, the good news: I replaced my simple attempt of > xlate 1 00-FF 3A 20-3F 20-3F 40-5F 00-1f 60-66 40-46 (what failed) by a even more simple 'a: xlate 1' and feeding the transliteration table (I prepared on another system) to secondary input. This option works as designed. Bad news, I have questions (one remark and a question): i) the NetRexx Pipelines Guide and Reference shows in the RRT diagram (RRT = Rail-Road-Track) for more than a single inputRange of XLATE to put it in brackets, but, as the repeat-track implies, to repeat also the brackets. That's wrong, same error in author's edition. > pipe literal aaaaaaa!xlate (1 5) a b!term > baaabaa > Ready; > pipe literal aaaaaaa!xlate (1) (5) a b!term > FPLXLA052E Unknown translate table "(5)". > FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 2 of pipeline 1. > FPLSCA001I ... Running "xlate (1) (5) a b". > Ready(00052); Same holds true for NetRexx Pipelines, with a slightly different error message and deviating RC. ii) the NetRexx Pipelines Guide and Reference shows as only "documentation" for XLATE a RRT-diagram, but no additional information than which of the default-table arguments are not implemented. (BTW, shouldn't 'UPper' stand above the "main track" since it's the default if no other arguments are entered?) Marked as not yet in Pipes for NetRexx are 'OUTput' and 'TO/FROM CODEPAGE n', but not 'INput'. For CMS input and output options of the XLATE stage are related to the input and output settings. Question: what is under Windows the corresponding parallel of CMS input setting? Best, M. |
|
From: <hp...@we...> - 2022-06-27 05:37:01
|
Hi Jeff! Am 26.06.2022 um 13:46 schrieb Jeff Hennick: > Unfortunately, CMS/TSO Pipelines Author’s Edition 1.1.12 does not say which > Level of Pipelines it documents. It says it applies to Version 1 and everything > above! It does say that the examples were all run at Level "CMS/TSO Pipelines, > 5654-030/5655-A17 level 110C0006." Which is not very helpful to me. It does > reference publication SC24-6077, which is z/VM IBM CMS Pipelines User’s Guide > *version 5 release 2*. I have been referencing z/VM CMS Pipelines User’s Guide > and Reference *Version 7 Release 1*. I suggest NOT using the Author's Edition > as a reference, although as a general User's Guide it is very useful. IMHO, NetRexx Pipelines deserves a documentation of its own. Since it has a prominent role model it seems to me quite helpful to have information about all the differences. Without access to an actual z/VM the Pipelines User’s Guide and Reference *Version 7 Release 1* is not very helpful to me. Best, M. |
|
From: <hp...@we...> - 2022-06-27 05:37:01
|
Hello René! Am 26.06.2022 um 13:44 schrieb rvj...@xs...: > Maybe surprising, but we do not have those rules, yet. Yes. But... no, not surprising. My idea about rules of precedence is biased by contractual stipulations, where it may help in cases of self-contradictory. Here, defining NetRexx Pipelines, it might be favourable to discuss every case and find a good solution. John did sometimes similar and asked on [CMS-PIPELINES]. > My intention is to be as close to the 2015 release of CMS/TSO Pipelines, because that is what is downloadable from Marist and runs on all versions of VM/ESA 2.4-z/VM 7.2, where that level became the standard from z/VM 6.04 on. So: accessible for the home/amateur user and the professional level with current releases. > > On the other hand, because of the fact that Jeff did a ton of work on it, and certainly understands it better than I do, I am inclined to respect his judgement here. We can even start a user group and have a poll on it. Sure, nothing against it. Polls are so much democratic. But, please, consider for what query you call all NetRexx Pipelines user to the ballot box: "Should it be possible to abbreviate the stage 'Locate' down to a single character 'L' exactly like the role model? -- Accept or decline?" Reminds me a bit this old ad: https://youtu.be/MyGUrPxG1iM ;) Best, M. |
|
From: <hp...@we...> - 2022-06-27 05:36:55
|
Hi! Am 26.06.2022 um 19:10 schrieb Chip Davis: > This is a philosophical issue, not a technical one. Now I dare do enqueue the row of famous philosophers like Sartre, Camus, Sinatra (To Be Is To Do/To Do Is To Be/Do Be Do Be Do) ;) > The "LOCATE" stage has been problematic since XEDIT made that > subcommand's shortest abbreviation absolutely nothing. Xedit has more funny details in storage what could disqualify it as exemplary. For example the synonyms of Quit and Quick-Quit: > QUIT QUIT COMMAND PQUIT > QQUIT QQ COMMAND QUIT > [...] BTW, question to the philosopher: when you call the forward slash an abbreviation to "absolutely nothing", may I call it _even more absolute_ when entering numbers only will move to that line? (Make numbers 1..9 synonyms of 'L :1' up to 'L :9'.) > Fundamentally, such extreme abbreviations (anything less than > three characters) fly face-first into the Cowlishaw maxim > asserting the primacy of readability over keystrokes. Please consider, Cowlishaw uses the term 'readability' in the sense of perceived legibility, a somehow 'felt value' only (while linguist measure it). His goal is "enhanced understandability" which may be significantly (and sometimes intentionally) reduced by using many words and long words. To grasp a topic catchwords are mostly sufficient. Just one example of (personal) experience, following is a short excerpt from the firmware of an HP32E pocket calculator, emulated by Tony Nixon's "Classic Calculator Emulator": > a - 1 -> a[x] > a exchange b[w] > if a >= b[x] > then go to $03D > a + 1 -> a[x] > shift right c[w] > a exchange c[s] > c -> a[s] Looks nice at first glance but turned out as too tiresome to work with. To find out how HP had implemented the Quantile function, I translated it to shorter mnemonics what enabled me to 'read along' twice as long per day as before. (It was still a strenuous task.) This is why I use abbreviations if possible. > [...] > Simply because IBM has succumbed to pressure to allow such short > stage abbreviations, doesn't mean we shouldn't flag such usages > with an "Inadvisable" warning at least. Especially since the > lowercase 'L' is virtually indistinguishable from the numeral '1' > in many popular fonts. Flag it, make it a neon red alert, but first of all, make it possible. Please. Best, M. |
|
From: Chip D. <ch...@ar...> - 2022-06-26 17:27:46
|
This is a philosophical issue, not a technical one.
The "LOCATE" stage has been problematic since XEDIT made that
subcommand's shortest abbreviation absolutely nothing. Many of my
colleagues and all my students didn't know they were invoking the
LOCATE subcommand at all. While this made for fewer keystrokes on a
slow terminal, it also could cause issues in XEDIT macros. (Not to
mention issues with overriding macros.) It also has the side-effect
of requiring the string delimiter to be the forward slash. If one
needs to search for a string containing a forward slash, you are
required to use a single 'L' at least.
Fundamentally, such extreme abbreviations (anything less than three
characters) fly face-first into the Cowlishaw maxim asserting the
primacy of readability over keystrokes. Yes, I've written Parse
templates that accomplished Herculean feats of data extraction in one
line, but never for public consumption except pedagogy ("Don't do this").
Simply because IBM has succumbed to pressure to allow such short stage
abbreviations, doesn't mean we shouldn't flag such usages with an
"Inadvisable" warning at least. Especially since the lowercase 'L' is
virtually indistinguishable from the numeral '1' in many popular fonts.
Just my $2 ... (accounting for inflation since 1979).
-Chip-
|
|
From: Jeff H. <Je...@Je...> - 2022-06-26 12:05:45
|
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<p>It never occurred to me that we would want to work against an
older version rather than the current one.</p>
<p>If someone wishes to add the differences between IBM's Version 5
and 7.1 to our HTML that would be great.</p>
<p>Jeff<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/26/2022 7:44 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rvj...@xs...">rvj...@xs...</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:568...@xs...">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Maybe surprising, but we do not have those rules, yet.
My intention is to be as close to the 2015 release of CMS/TSO Pipelines, because that is what is downloadable from Marist and runs on all versions of VM/ESA 2.4-z/VM 7.2, where that level became the standard from z/VM 6.04 on. So: accessible for the home/amateur user and the professional level with current releases.
On the other hand, because of the fact that Jeff did a ton of work on it, and certainly understands it better than I do, I am inclined to respect his judgement here. We can even start a user group and have a poll on it.
René.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On 26 Jun 2022, at 05:36, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hp...@we...">hp...@we...</a> wrote:
Am 26.06.2022 um 03:07 schrieb René Jansen:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> pipe literal aap noot mies | locate /aap/ | cons
aap noot mies
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:53:16
[...]
pipe literal aap noot mies | split | l /aap/ | cons
aap
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:54:58
So here the implementation is different from the manual, or the manual is incorrect.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Sure, 'the Book' (author's edition) "does not exactly reflect"
what's up. In addition, pipe ahelp L shows help for LDRTBLS, not
for Locate. In contrast, help pipe L works as expected.
I suppose for that you have clear rules of precedence when cloning
the role model.
/M.
_______________________________________________
netrexx-pipelines mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:net...@li...">net...@li...</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
_______________________________________________
netrexx-pipelines mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:net...@li...">net...@li...</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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From: Jeff H. <Je...@Je...> - 2022-06-26 11:46:14
|
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<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/25/2022 11:33 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hp...@we...">hp...@we...</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:7b1...@we..."><br>
Sure, 'the Book' (author's edition) "does not exactly reflect"
<br>
what's up. In addition, pipe ahelp L shows help for LDRTBLS, not
<br>
for Locate. In contrast, help pipe L works as expected.
<br>
<br>
I suppose for that you have clear rules of precedence when cloning
<br>
the role model.
<br>
<br>
/M.
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<p>Unfortunately, CMS/TSO Pipelines
Author’s Edition
1.1.12 does not say which Level of Pipelines it documents. It
says it applies to Version 1 and everything above! It does say
that the examples were all run at Level "CMS/TSO Pipelines,
5654-030/5655-A17 level 110C0006." Which is not very helpful to
me. It does reference publication SC24-6077, which is z/VM IBM
CMS Pipelines User’s Guide <b>version 5 release 2</b>. I have
been referencing z/VM CMS Pipelines User’s Guide and Reference <b>Version
7 Release 1</b>. I suggest NOT using the Author's Edition as a
reference, although as a general User's Guide it is very useful.</p>
<p>Jeff<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>
|
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From: <rvj...@xs...> - 2022-06-26 11:44:44
|
Maybe surprising, but we do not have those rules, yet. My intention is to be as close to the 2015 release of CMS/TSO Pipelines, because that is what is downloadable from Marist and runs on all versions of VM/ESA 2.4-z/VM 7.2, where that level became the standard from z/VM 6.04 on. So: accessible for the home/amateur user and the professional level with current releases. On the other hand, because of the fact that Jeff did a ton of work on it, and certainly understands it better than I do, I am inclined to respect his judgement here. We can even start a user group and have a poll on it. René. > On 26 Jun 2022, at 05:36, hp...@we... wrote: > > Am 26.06.2022 um 03:07 schrieb René Jansen: >> pipe literal aap noot mies | locate /aap/ | cons >> aap noot mies >> Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:53:16 >> [...] >> pipe literal aap noot mies | split | l /aap/ | cons >> aap >> Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:54:58 >> >> So here the implementation is different from the manual, or the manual is incorrect. > > Sure, 'the Book' (author's edition) "does not exactly reflect" > what's up. In addition, pipe ahelp L shows help for LDRTBLS, not > for Locate. In contrast, help pipe L works as expected. > > I suppose for that you have clear rules of precedence when cloning > the role model. > > /M. > > > _______________________________________________ > netrexx-pipelines mailing list > net...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines |
|
From: <hp...@we...> - 2022-06-26 03:36:40
|
Am 26.06.2022 um 03:07 schrieb René Jansen: > pipe literal aap noot mies | locate /aap/ | cons > aap noot mies > Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:53:16 > [...] > pipe literal aap noot mies | split | l /aap/ | cons > aap > Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:54:58 > > So here the implementation is different from the manual, or the manual is incorrect. Sure, 'the Book' (author's edition) "does not exactly reflect" what's up. In addition, pipe ahelp L shows help for LDRTBLS, not for Locate. In contrast, help pipe L works as expected. I suppose for that you have clear rules of precedence when cloning the role model. /M. |
|
From: <hp...@we...> - 2022-06-26 02:46:48
|
Hi Jeff! Am 26.06.2022 um 01:14 schrieb Jeff Hennick: > [...] > This is the first I have heard of a problem with XLATE/TRANSLATE, except that > the various code pages are not supported "yet." (I don't see much use, in the > NetRexx world, for all the EBCDIC pages that CMS supports.) You certainly remember, recently you pointed me to M. Cowlishaw's 'The REXX Language', section 3: 'Fundamental Language Concepts'. In paragraph 'Be adaptable' he says: > A language [...] certainly will be used for applications not foreseen by the designer. Therefore, your "don't see much use" is no criterion. For example, rarely but it happens that "normal" FTP transfer fails so I take a runaround by binary transfer and xlate/deblock afterwards. By FTP transfer I mean between PC and z/VM. (It fails for Intel load files with lines terminated either by lf or cr instead of crlf.) The failure xlate does not specify any codepage: > xlate 1 00-FF 3A 20-3F 20-3F 40-5F 00-1f 60-66 40-46 The arguments are: 1 = inputRange 00-FF 3A = xrange-xchar, the 'basic table' 20-3F 20-3F = xrange-xrange, 1st mod. of table 40-5F 00-1f = xrange-xrange, 2nd mod. of table 60-66 40-46 = xrange-xrange, 3rd mod. of table It should transliterate from ASCII to HP41 display coded characters as used in its firmware, see attached table from ZENROM users' manual. > These are the tests it currently passes: > >> -- xlate xrange char ? >> -- xlate xrange char char char? >> -- xlate ? >> -- xlate xrange char char char (overlap)? >> -- xlate xrange (multiple overlap)? >> -- xlate pairs reversed ? >> -- xlate xrange short-xrange ? >> -- xlate short-xrange xrange ? > What am I missing? See a. m. details. BTW, what is 'short-xrange', the "Pipelines Guide and Reference" does not mention 'short' in relation of xlate. Best, M. |
|
From: Jeff H. <Je...@Je...> - 2022-06-26 02:20:33
|
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<p>It looks like the manual is wrong here, too.</p>
<p>My vote is for NetRexx Pipelines to use the abbreviations, as
does the XEDIT model, and document the discrepancy.</p>
<p>Jeff<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/25/2022 9:00 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hp...@we...">hp...@we...</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:279...@we...">Jeff!
<br>
<br>
Am 25.06.2022 um 22:21 schrieb Jeff Hennick:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Right now I can not find your message
dealing with the *LOCATE* stage and, in
<br>
NetRexx Pipelines, not being able to abbreviate its name down to
"L", to be able
<br>
to respond to it.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
No problem, I remember well my complain.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I have just spent several hours going
through the IBM *CMS Pipelines User's
<br>
Guide and Reference /Version 7 Release 1/* (which as far as I
can see is the
<br>
most recent) checking each documented stage and its aliases to
be sure our
<br>
system matched and was documented correctly. (The manual hides
aliases in
<br>
different places for different stages and does not index them.
And on some
<br>
stages puts the name in all lowercase instead of all upper.) I
found a couple
<br>
of stages where we do not yet have the shortened name aliases,
and will be
<br>
committing them and updated tests & documentation soon.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
You spent several hours? Why didn't you use Pipelines? ;)
<br>
It took me two minutes to access "my mainframe" and take the
<br>
attached screen shot.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">As for using Hercules to look in the
corners where the CMS documentation is not
<br>
clear, I want to work against the current VM/CMS Pipelines. I
don't think the
<br>
Hercules edition would help much if at all. I'd like to be
proven wrong on that.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
You'd like it, you said. Is the screen shot sufficient enough?
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">But, *LOCATE* is not one of them. This is
what the manual has:
<br>
[...]
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
You probably know, every program with more than 15 lines has at
<br>
least one error, without fail. Same holds true for documentation.
<br>
Alas, up to now I did not see an errata for 'the Book'.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">(I have not tried this myself.) But
adding it to the release now would likely
<br>
break some existing pipes.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Woot? Likely a lame excuse, methinks. Please present an example
<br>
that explains when, how, why, and more about that break you
suspect.
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
M.
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
|
|
From: René J. <rvj...@xs...> - 2022-06-26 01:07:26
|
pipe literal aap noot mies | locate /aap/ | cons
aap noot mies
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:53:16
pipe literal aap noot mies | split | locate /aap/ | cons
aap
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:53:33
pipe literal aap noot mies | split | locat /aap/ | cons
aap
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:53:41
pipe literal aap noot mies | split | loca /aap/ | cons
aap
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:53:48
pipe literal aap noot mies | split | loc /aap/ | cons
aap
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:53:58
pipe literal aap noot mies | split | lo /aap/ | cons
aap
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:54:35
pipe literal aap noot mies | split | l /aap/ | cons
aap
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:54:58
So here the implementation is different from the manual, or the manual is incorrect.
pipe q version
PIPINX086I CMS/TSO Pipelines, 5654-030/5655-A17 1.0112 (Version.Release/Mod) - Generated 30 Jul 2015 at 16:26:54.
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 00:57:17
> On 26 Jun 2022, at 03:00, hp...@we... wrote:
>
> Jeff!
>
> Am 25.06.2022 um 22:21 schrieb Jeff Hennick:
>> Right now I can not find your message dealing with the *LOCATE* stage and, in
>> NetRexx Pipelines, not being able to abbreviate its name down to "L", to be able
>> to respond to it.
>
> No problem, I remember well my complain.
>
>> I have just spent several hours going through the IBM *CMS Pipelines User's
>> Guide and Reference /Version 7 Release 1/* (which as far as I can see is the
>> most recent) checking each documented stage and its aliases to be sure our
>> system matched and was documented correctly. (The manual hides aliases in
>> different places for different stages and does not index them. And on some
>> stages puts the name in all lowercase instead of all upper.) I found a couple
>> of stages where we do not yet have the shortened name aliases, and will be
>> committing them and updated tests & documentation soon.
>
> You spent several hours? Why didn't you use Pipelines? ;)
> It took me two minutes to access "my mainframe" and take the
> attached screen shot.
>
>> As for using Hercules to look in the corners where the CMS documentation is not
>> clear, I want to work against the current VM/CMS Pipelines. I don't think the
>> Hercules edition would help much if at all. I'd like to be proven wrong on that.
>
> You'd like it, you said. Is the screen shot sufficient enough?
>
>> But, *LOCATE* is not one of them. This is what the manual has:
>> [...]
>
> You probably know, every program with more than 15 lines has at
> least one error, without fail. Same holds true for documentation.
> Alas, up to now I did not see an errata for 'the Book'.
>
>> (I have not tried this myself.) But adding it to the release now would likely
>> break some existing pipes.
>
> Woot? Likely a lame excuse, methinks. Please present an example
> that explains when, how, why, and more about that break you suspect.
>
> Best,
> M.
> <Locate.png>
|
|
From: <hp...@we...> - 2022-06-26 01:04:14
|
Jeff! Am 25.06.2022 um 22:21 schrieb Jeff Hennick: > Right now I can not find your message dealing with the *LOCATE* stage and, in > NetRexx Pipelines, not being able to abbreviate its name down to "L", to be able > to respond to it. No problem, I remember well my complain. > I have just spent several hours going through the IBM *CMS Pipelines User's > Guide and Reference /Version 7 Release 1/* (which as far as I can see is the > most recent) checking each documented stage and its aliases to be sure our > system matched and was documented correctly. (The manual hides aliases in > different places for different stages and does not index them. And on some > stages puts the name in all lowercase instead of all upper.) I found a couple > of stages where we do not yet have the shortened name aliases, and will be > committing them and updated tests & documentation soon. You spent several hours? Why didn't you use Pipelines? ;) It took me two minutes to access "my mainframe" and take the attached screen shot. > As for using Hercules to look in the corners where the CMS documentation is not > clear, I want to work against the current VM/CMS Pipelines. I don't think the > Hercules edition would help much if at all. I'd like to be proven wrong on that. You'd like it, you said. Is the screen shot sufficient enough? > But, *LOCATE* is not one of them. This is what the manual has: > [...] You probably know, every program with more than 15 lines has at least one error, without fail. Same holds true for documentation. Alas, up to now I did not see an errata for 'the Book'. > (I have not tried this myself.) But adding it to the release now would likely > break some existing pipes. Woot? Likely a lame excuse, methinks. Please present an example that explains when, how, why, and more about that break you suspect. Best, M. |
|
From: René J. <rvj...@xs...> - 2022-06-26 00:30:31
|
I just had a look at the source and I see the ascii/ebcdic tables are already there and they are unmistakably mine. Also, this issue is now https://github.com/RexxLA/NetRexx/issues/30 <https://github.com/RexxLA/NetRexx/issues/30> René. > On 26 Jun 2022, at 02:04, René Jansen <rvj...@xs...> wrote: > > I’ll have a look at CP1047 which should be useful for USS. Let me scroll back into this thread to find which other problems can be solved. > > René. |
|
From: René J. <rvj...@xs...> - 2022-06-26 00:04:59
|
I’ll have a look at CP1047 which should be useful for USS. Let me scroll back into this thread to find which other problems can be solved. René. > On 26 Jun 2022, at 01:14, Jeff Hennick <Je...@Je...> wrote: > > Great ideas. Thank you. > > The potential problem I see with undelimited strings here is all the key words become"reserved" as any can end the clause before it. Is there any combination that it might cause a problem? > > This is the first I have heard of a problem with XLATE/TRANSLATE, except that the various code pages are not supported "yet." (I don't see much use, in the NetRexx world, for all the EBCDIC pages that CMS supports.) > > These are the tests it currently passes: > > >> -- xlate xrange char ? >> -- xlate xrange char char char? >> -- xlate ? >> -- xlate xrange char char char (overlap)? >> -- xlate xrange (multiple overlap)? >> -- xlate pairs reversed ? >> -- xlate xrange short-xrange ? >> -- xlate short-xrange xrange ? > What am I missing? > > Jeff > > On 6/25/2022 6:30 PM, hp...@we... <mailto:hp...@we...> wrote: >> Hi Jeff! >> >> Am 25.06.2022 um 05:56 schrieb Jeff Hennick: >>> [...] >>>>> Pipeline stage options could use some more, optional, "fluff >>>>> words," that would limit the need for external comments/documentation. >>> >>> Sorry for my miscommunication. I do NOT advocate for fluffy stage names, at all. >> >> Well, as I misconceived it my comments are completely wrong. >> >>> The additional fluffy things that I do suggest are for pipelines that will have >>> to be read by a human, maybe the author or not, some time in the future, are in >>> the options. CMS Pipelines stages can be very terse, which is very good for one >>> time pipes. >>> >>> What I have in mind are like this stage: [RRT view of 'change'] >> >> Thank you, now I see, your "fluff words" are 'filler', or more >> general 'grammatical particles'. Filler may be omitted without >> changing the predication. Yes, I remember, even the HP71-BASIC >> knows one or two of those, in execution just NOPs. >> >> Well, the idea is not new to communicate with the machine in >> natural human language (which is English in any case, no other >> language is more natural and more human, Siri will confirm it). >> Fullscreen-CMS once made some promising steps in this direction >> (pop window cmsout), and crawled back a bit in next release >> (window pop cmsout). >> >>> Now, those of us that grew up on or with XEDIT have no problem with just the >>> delimited changeString format, but for "normal" people, having the optional >>> words FROM, TO, and FOR make it much more understandable, although they add >>> nothing to working of the stage, and I personally would not use them in a >>> one-off pipe. They are, implied, defaults, so do not break any existing pipes >>> without them. >> >> FROM, TO, and FOR (I suggest also WITHIN and AND) would for sure >> make more sense if by using them the sequence of the arguments >> would become irrelevant _and_ the strings don't necessarily need >> to be delimited strings: >> >> Change within 3-8 and w2.3 for x to a from b /* got it? */ >> >> Nice, but would you please be so kind and fix XLATE first? ;) >> >> Best, >> M. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netrexx-pipelines mailing list >> net...@li... <mailto:net...@li...> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines> > _______________________________________________ > netrexx-pipelines mailing list > net...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines |
|
From: Jeff H. <Je...@Je...> - 2022-06-25 23:15:05
|
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<p>Great ideas. Thank you.</p>
<p>The potential problem I see with undelimited strings here is all
the key words become"reserved" as any can end the clause before
it. Is there any combination that it might cause a problem?</p>
<p>This is the first I have heard of a problem with XLATE/TRANSLATE,
except that the various code pages are not supported "yet." (I
don't see much use, in the NetRexx world, for all the EBCDIC pages
that CMS supports.)<br>
</p>
<p>These are the tests it currently passes:</p>
<p>
<blockquote type="cite">-- xlate xrange char ?<br>
-- xlate xrange char char char?<br>
-- xlate ?<br>
-- xlate xrange char char char (overlap)?<br>
-- xlate xrange (multiple overlap)?<br>
-- xlate pairs reversed ?<br>
-- xlate xrange short-xrange ?<br>
-- xlate short-xrange xrange ? </blockquote>
What am I missing?</p>
<p>Jeff<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/25/2022 6:30 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hp...@we...">hp...@we...</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:9f6...@we...">Hi Jeff!
<br>
<br>
Am 25.06.2022 um 05:56 schrieb Jeff Hennick:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">[...]
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Pipeline stage options could use some
more, optional, "fluff
<br>
words," that would limit the need for external
comments/documentation.
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sorry for my miscommunication. I do NOT advocate for fluffy
stage names, at all.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Well, as I misconceived it my comments are completely wrong.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The additional fluffy things that I do
suggest are for pipelines that will have
<br>
to be read by a human, maybe the author or not, some time in the
future, are in
<br>
the options. CMS Pipelines stages can be very terse, which is
very good for one
<br>
time pipes.
<br>
<br>
What I have in mind are like this stage: [RRT view of 'change']
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Thank you, now I see, your "fluff words" are 'filler', or more
<br>
general 'grammatical particles'. Filler may be omitted without
<br>
changing the predication. Yes, I remember, even the HP71-BASIC
<br>
knows one or two of those, in execution just NOPs.
<br>
<br>
Well, the idea is not new to communicate with the machine in
<br>
natural human language (which is English in any case, no other
<br>
language is more natural and more human, Siri will confirm it).
<br>
Fullscreen-CMS once made some promising steps in this direction
<br>
(pop window cmsout), and crawled back a bit in next release
<br>
(window pop cmsout).
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Now, those of us that grew up on or with
XEDIT have no problem with just the
<br>
delimited changeString format, but for "normal" people, having
the optional
<br>
words FROM, TO, and FOR make it much more understandable,
although they add
<br>
nothing to working of the stage, and I personally would not use
them in a
<br>
one-off pipe. They are, implied, defaults, so do not break any
existing pipes
<br>
without them.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
FROM, TO, and FOR (I suggest also WITHIN and AND) would for sure
<br>
make more sense if by using them the sequence of the arguments
<br>
would become irrelevant _and_ the strings don't necessarily need
<br>
to be delimited strings:
<br>
<br>
Change within 3-8 and w2.3 for x to a from b /* got it? */
<br>
<br>
Nice, but would you please be so kind and fix XLATE first? ;)
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
M.
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
netrexx-pipelines mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:net...@li...">net...@li...</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/netrexx-pipelines</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
|
|
From: <hp...@we...> - 2022-06-25 22:43:10
|
Hi Jeff! Am 25.06.2022 um 05:56 schrieb Jeff Hennick: > [...] >>> Pipeline stage options could use some more, optional, "fluff >>> words," that would limit the need for external comments/documentation. > > Sorry for my miscommunication. I do NOT advocate for fluffy stage names, at all. Well, as I misconceived it my comments are completely wrong. > The additional fluffy things that I do suggest are for pipelines that will have > to be read by a human, maybe the author or not, some time in the future, are in > the options. CMS Pipelines stages can be very terse, which is very good for one > time pipes. > > What I have in mind are like this stage: [RRT view of 'change'] Thank you, now I see, your "fluff words" are 'filler', or more general 'grammatical particles'. Filler may be omitted without changing the predication. Yes, I remember, even the HP71-BASIC knows one or two of those, in execution just NOPs. Well, the idea is not new to communicate with the machine in natural human language (which is English in any case, no other language is more natural and more human, Siri will confirm it). Fullscreen-CMS once made some promising steps in this direction (pop window cmsout), and crawled back a bit in next release (window pop cmsout). > Now, those of us that grew up on or with XEDIT have no problem with just the > delimited changeString format, but for "normal" people, having the optional > words FROM, TO, and FOR make it much more understandable, although they add > nothing to working of the stage, and I personally would not use them in a > one-off pipe. They are, implied, defaults, so do not break any existing pipes > without them. FROM, TO, and FOR (I suggest also WITHIN and AND) would for sure make more sense if by using them the sequence of the arguments would become irrelevant _and_ the strings don't necessarily need to be delimited strings: Change within 3-8 and w2.3 for x to a from b /* got it? */ Nice, but would you please be so kind and fix XLATE first? ;) Best, M. |
|
From: J L. T. <jlt...@ma...> - 2022-06-25 20:53:41
|
Looking in my PDF of CMS Pipelines Reference Version 6 release 1 (the latest I have available), it appears that you will have to examine each entry in Chapter 3: Built-In Stages. Most of the stage names have no abbreviations; in most of the ones that do the abbreviation is hardly shorter than the full name (eg NOTLOCATe, NOTINSIDe). Locate is maybe the only one that goes to the other extreme. Leslie On 2022-06-25 15:21:31 Jeff Hennick wrote: > Mike, > Right now I can not find your message dealing with the LOCATE stage and, in > NetRexx Pipelines, not being able to abbreviate its name down to "L", to be > able to respond to it. > > I have just spent several hours going through the IBM CMS Pipelines User's > Guide and Reference Version 7 Release 1 (which as far as I can see is the > most recent) checking each documented stage and its aliases to be sure our > system matched and was documented correctly. (The manual hides aliases in > different places for different stages and does not index them. And on some > stages puts the name in all lowercase instead of all upper.) I found a > couple of stages where we do not yet have the shortened name aliases, and > will be committing them and updated tests & documentation soon. But, LOCATE > is not one of them. This is what the manual has: > No lowercase Locate to indicate a short version will work. > You could create your own local stage named L in l.nrx that would call > LOCATE, then compile it with pipc. Such as this: options nostrictcase > nostrictargs nostrictsignal > import org.netrexx.njpipes.pipes. > class l extends locate > > (I have not tried this myself.) But adding it to the release now would > likely break some existing pipes. Jeff -- |
|
From: Jeff H. <Je...@Je...> - 2022-06-25 20:21:44
|
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<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Mike,</p>
<p>Right now I can not find your message dealing with the <b>LOCATE</b>
stage and, in NetRexx Pipelines, not being able to abbreviate its
name down to "L", to be able to respond to it.<br>
</p>
<p>I have just spent several hours going through the IBM <b>CMS
Pipelines User's Guide and Reference <i>Version 7 Release 1</i></b>
(which as far as I can see is the most recent) checking each
documented stage and its aliases to be sure our system matched and
was documented correctly. (The manual hides aliases in different
places for different stages and does not index them. And on some
stages puts the name in all lowercase instead of all upper.) I
found a couple of stages where we do not yet have the shortened
name aliases, and will be committing them and updated tests &
documentation soon.</p>
<p>But, <b>LOCATE</b> is not one of them. This is what the manual
has:</p>
<p><img src="cid:par...@Je..." alt=""></p>
<p>No lowercase <b>Locate</b> to indicate a short version will
work.</p>
<p>You could create your own local stage named <b>L</b> in <b>l.nrx</b>
that would call <b>LOCATE</b>, then compile it with <b>pipc</b>.
Such as this:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><font face="monospace">options nostrictcase nostrictargs
nostrictsignal<br>
import org.netrexx.njpipes.pipes.<br>
class l extends locate</font><br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(I have not tried this myself.) But adding it to the release now
would likely break some existing pipes.</p>
<p>Jeff<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
</body>
</html> |
|
From: J L. T. <jlt...@ma...> - 2022-06-25 18:58:13
|
IDEAL has also many of the same characteristics as Rexx. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DATACOM/DB#Applied_Data_Research Leslie On 2022-06-25 06:37:53 Jeff Hennick wrote: > This readability is one of the factors that make Rexx such a standout > language. From Mike Cowlishaw's The Rexx Language, Part 1 Background: > SECTION 3: FUNDAMENTAL LANGUAGE CONCEPTS > Readability > If there is one concept that has dominated the evolution of REXX syntax, it > is readability (used here in the sense of perceived legibility). > Readability in this sense is a rather subjective quality, but the general > principle followed in REXX is that the tokens which form a program can be > written much as one might write them in European languages (English, > French, and so forth). Although the semantics of REXX is, of course, more > formal than that of a natural language,, REXX is lexically similar to > normal text. ... Good readability leads to enhanced understandability, thus > yielding fewer errors both while writing a program and while reading it for > debug or maintenance. ... > > Jeff -- Operating System: Linux Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.4 x86_64 java version "18" 2022-03-22 NetRexx portable processor 4.03-GA build 260-20220503-1730 |
|
From: Jeff H. <Je...@Je...> - 2022-06-25 11:38:07
|
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<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>This readability is one of the factors that make Rexx such a
standout language.</p>
<p>From Mike Cowlishaw's <b>The Rexx Language</b>, Part 1
Background:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>SECTION 3: FUNDAMENTAL LANGUAGE CONCEPTS</b></p>
<p><i>Readability</i></p>
<blockquote>
<p>If there is one concept that has dominated the evolution of
REXX syntax, it is <i>readability</i> (used here in the sense
of perceived legibility). Readability in this sense is a
rather subjective quality, but the general principle followed
in REXX is that the tokens which form a program can be written
much as one might write them in European languages (English,
French, and so forth). Although the semantics of REXX is, of
course, more formal than that of a natural language,, REXX is
lexically similar to normal text.</p>
<p>... Good readability leads to enhanced understandability,
thus yielding fewer errors both while writing a program and
while reading it for debug or maintenance. ...<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>Jeff<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/25/2022 4:07 AM, J Leslie Turriff
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:202...@ma...">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> In fact, most computer languages are written to be easily processed by a parser;
user-friendliness is secondary to that.
Leslie
On 2022-06-24 18:30:44 <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hp...@we...">hp...@we...</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Rexx is specifically designed for human reading.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Reading only? ;)
BTW, at first glance it seemed to me a poor joke, "NetREXX is a
human-oriented programming language", found in the introduction of
the QuickStart Guide. Are not all programming languages made for
humans? Are there some for dogs? Pavlov’s dog? Or is there a
mistake in my translation? Maybe yes, since "C is a
machine-oriented programming language" doesn't mean, machines will
do programs in C.
(BTW, said this, when somebody states, "REXX is the new C", it
could be understood as distinct critic that it once /was/ a
human-oriented programming language.)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
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