nakedobjects-contributors — A discussion mailing list for contributors to the Naked Objects project

Re: [NOF-Contrib] Migration of code

[Kevin M. - K. <ke...@km...>]

Hi Robert,

I specifically (locally) undid my changes w.r.t. the "disabled*" service-
contributed actions in anticipation of the move to Isis (I only got half-
way: tests in other modules were failing due to un-implemented 
methods, but I kept a diff log).

I'll start again, as discussed, once the codebase has been ported.

In other words, I have no outstanding changes.

Thanks,
Kevin


On 29 Sep 2010 at 11:59, Robert Matthews wrote:

> To all existing commiters (of the SourceForge repository),
>
> Can you each, therefore, prepare and check in all your changes and then 
> email me so I know when I can start.
> 

--
Kevin Meyer, PhD, Pr.Sci.Nat
KMZ		P.O. Box 9822, Sharon Park, South Africa.
Tel: +27 11 363 2001	Cell: +27 83 346 3045

Re: [NOF-Contrib] Fwd: [RESULT] [VOTE] Isis to enter the incubator

[Mohammad N. El-D. <nou...@gm...>]

Hi Mark...

   INFRA JIRA(s) done, please review

    https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-2972

On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Mohammad Nour El-Din
<nou...@gm...> wrote:
> SIR, I AM @ UR SERVICE SIR ;)
>
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Mark Struberg <str...@ya...> wrote:
>> yes, fine! And thanks for pushing this, mate!
>>
>> LieGrue,
>> strub
>>
>> --- On Sun, 9/19/10, Mohammad Nour El-Din <nou...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Mohammad Nour El-Din <nou...@gm...>
>>> Subject: Re: [NOF-Contrib] Fwd: [RESULT] [VOTE] Isis to enter the incubator
>>> To: "Mark Struberg" <str...@ya...>
>>> Cc: "Dan Haywood" <da...@ha...>
>>> Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 11:01 AM
>>> Hi Mark...
>>>
>>>    I am sorry to know that you have cold I
>>> hope you recover completely
>>> soon :). As for SVN I think we don't have a repo. of our
>>> own yet, as
>>> this INFRA JIRA - https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-2972 -
>>> states, they only did the mailing-lists, and I can't find
>>> it on
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/.
>>>
>>> I am going to do the following:
>>>
>>>     For INFRA:
>>> 1- Open a sub-task for Subversion.
>>> 2- Open a sub-task for JIRA.
>>>
>>>     For incubator site and the project status
>>> page:
>>> 1- I am going to do what's explained in here
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Incubation+Activities
>>> .
>>>
>>> Expected I will finish this max. by the end tomorrow
>>> 20-September-2010.
>>>
>>> Mark please approve so I know I am not conflicting with any
>>> other
>>> activities worked on with others. Looking forward your
>>> reply.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mark Struberg <str...@ya...>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hi Mohammad!
>>> >
>>> > Txs 4 your help, all contributions are welcome. I was
>>> in bed with a bad cold the whole last weak and slowly
>>> catching up speed again. So sorry for not pushing things
>>> since the last time.
>>> >
>>> > We should really get the SVN import up and running.
>>> > Dan, do you have a jarball with the SVN export at
>>> hand? I'd like to import all the history of the main project
>>> and the sister projects into a private area of our SVN. I
>>> don't assume that there will be any troubles, but it is
>>> always a save bet to have it as the whole SCO vs Linux trial
>>> showed.
>>> >
>>> > txs and LieGrue,
>>> > strub
>>> >
>>> > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, Mohammad Nour El-Din <nou...@gm...>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> From: Mohammad Nour El-Din <nou...@gm...>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [NOF-Contrib] Fwd: [RESULT] [VOTE]
>>> Isis to enter the incubator
>>> >> To: "Mark Struberg" <str...@ya...>
>>> >> Cc: "Dan Haywood" <da...@ha...>
>>> >> Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 9:59 AM
>>> >> Hi Mark...
>>> >>
>>> >>    I would like to help in these tasks to
>>> >> get ISIS up and running,
>>> >> tell what I can do :) ?
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Mark Struberg
>>> <str...@ya...>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > oki the checklist out of my head so far:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > * all new committers ICLAs / CLAs on file
>>>  [1] ?
>>> >> >  => Dan, I need the names and emails of
>>> those
>>> >> folks to check this
>>> >> > * all copyright issues resolved and available
>>> at
>>> >> apache in textual form?
>>> >> > * setting up the reporting schedule;
>>> >> > * create the project status page;
>>> >> > * add the Isis mailing lists;
>>> >> > * create the SVN repository + backup the
>>> 'old'
>>> >> external histories.
>>> >> >  => Dan, can you manage to get a backup
>>> of all the
>>> >> main projects SVN + the sister projects? I'd like
>>> to have
>>> >> this to be able to do some provenience research if
>>> needed.
>>> >> They will not be public but only stored
>>> internally.
>>> >> > * create an 'initialimport' branch and upload
>>> the
>>> >> source
>>> >> > * move all eventual license information to a
>>> LICENSE
>>> >> file
>>> >> > * check all transitive dependencies if they
>>> are
>>> >> available at maven.central and if they are ASL or
>>> compatible
>>> >> licensed.
>>> >> > * migrate all javax... dependencies to
>>> adequate
>>> >> org.apache.geronimo.specs ones
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Anything I missed?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > txs and LieGrue,
>>> >> > strub
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --- On Tue, 9/7/10, Dan Haywood <dkh...@gm...>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > From: Dan Haywood <dkh...@gm...>
>>> >> > Subject: Fwd: [RESULT] [VOTE] Isis to enter
>>> the
>>> >> incubator
>>> >> > To: "Mark Struberg" <str...@ya...>,
>>> >> "Benson Margulies" <bim...@gm...>,
>>> >> sie...@it...,
>>> >> "James Carman" <ja...@ca...>,
>>> >> "Vincent Massol" <vi...@ma...>
>>> >> > Cc: nak...@li...
>>> >> > Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 5:00 AM
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >  OK, guys... what happens next?!
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >    -------- Original Message --------
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >          Subject:
>>> >> >          [RESULT] [VOTE] Isis to enter
>>> the
>>> >> incubator
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >          Date:
>>> >> >          Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:52:14
>>> +0100
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >          From:
>>> >> >          Dan Haywood <dkh...@gm...>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >          Reply-To:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >          da...@ha...
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >          Organization:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >          Haywood Associates Ltd.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >          To:
>>> >> >          ge...@in...
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >          CC:
>>> >> >          nak...@li...,
>>> >> Richard
>>> >> >            Pawson <rp...@na...>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >      The vote for Isis to enter the
>>> incubator is
>>> >> now closed, and has been
>>> >> > ACCEPTED.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > +9 (binding): Matthias Wessendorf, Tim
>>> Williams, Mark
>>> >> Struberg, Bertrand
>>> >> > Delacatraz, Alan D. Cabrera, Niclas Hedhman,
>>> Benson
>>> >> Marguiles, Jim
>>> >> > Jagielski, Craig L Russell
>>> >> > +4 (non-binding): Mohammad Nour El-Din, Leif
>>> Hedstrom,
>>> >> Ulrich Stark,
>>> >> > Martijn Dashorst
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Many thanks to all.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I'll contact our mentors off-list initially
>>> for
>>> >> guidance as to the next
>>> >> > steps.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks again,
>>> >> > Dan
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> > This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Show off your parallel programming skills.
>>> >> > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
>>> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
>>> >> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> > Nakedobjects-contributors mailing list
>>> >> > Nak...@li...
>>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nakedobjects-contributors
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Thanks
>>> >> - Mohammad Nour
>>> >>   Author of (WebSphere Application Server
>>> Community
>>> >> Edition 2.0 User Guide)
>>> >>   http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html
>>> >> - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
>>> >> - Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com
>>> >> ----
>>> >> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your
>>> balance you
>>> >> must keep moving"
>>> >> - Albert Einstein
>>> >>
>>> >> "Writing clean code is what you must do in order
>>> to call
>>> >> yourself a
>>> >> professional. There is no reasonable excuse for
>>> doing
>>> >> anything less
>>> >> than your best."
>>> >> - Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software
>>> Craftsmanship
>>> >>
>>> >> "Stay hungry, stay foolish."
>>> >> - Steve Jobs
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks
>>> - Mohammad Nour
>>>   Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community
>>> Edition 2.0 User Guide)
>>>   http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html
>>> - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
>>> - Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com
>>> ----
>>> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you
>>> must keep moving"
>>> - Albert Einstein
>>>
>>> "Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call
>>> yourself a
>>> professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing
>>> anything less
>>> than your best."
>>> - Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship
>>>
>>> "Stay hungry, stay foolish."
>>> - Steve Jobs
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> - Mohammad Nour
>   Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community Edition 2.0 User Guide)
>   http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html
> - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
> - Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com
> ----
> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
> - Albert Einstein
>
> "Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a
> professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less
> than your best."
> - Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship
>
> "Stay hungry, stay foolish."
> - Steve Jobs
>



-- 
Thanks
- Mohammad Nour
  Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community Edition 2.0 User Guide)
  http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html
- LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
- Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein

"Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a
professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less
than your best."
- Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship

"Stay hungry, stay foolish."
- Steve Jobs

[NOF-Contrib] change default language for HTML viewer?

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

Hi all,

Was asked a question on my book's forum... do we (Rob?) know the answer 
off-hand:

"i want to ask you for the possibility of change the default language of 
html viewer (authentication page, welcome page, etc) to spanish or other 
language."


Cheers
Dan

Re: [NOF-Contrib] mailing lists set up, please subscribe.

[Benson M. <bim...@gm...>]

Dan,

I find that I have no idea how to list the mods. A message to
general@incubator might prove illuminating here. The Apache instruction page
for mailing lists does tell me how to request changes to the list.

--benson


On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Dan Haywood <dkh...@gm...> wrote:

>  Hi all,
> First up, I see that the JIRA that Benson raised (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-2971) has been actioned, so
> could everyone now subscribe to the new isis-dev mailing list, please?
>  (mailto:isi...@in...)
>
> Mentors,
> Can you advise on what we need to do next?  We've got CCLA in and
> acknowledged from Naked Objects Group and the ICLAs in from Robert Matthews,
> Kevin Meyer and myself, Alexander is doing his and I just need to track down
> Dave's.
>
> Things I can envisage are:
> - getting moderators set up for isis-dev, to approve isis-dev
> subscriptions.
> - Twiki access
> - SVN access
> - "howto" guidance for our SVN import
>
> And I imagine there's a dozen other things too.
>
> Thx
> Dan
>
>

[NOF-Contrib] mailing lists set up, please subscribe.

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

  Hi all,
First up, I see that the JIRA that Benson raised 
(https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-2971) has been actioned, so 
could everyone now subscribe to the new isis-dev mailing list, please?  
(mailto:isi...@in...)

Mentors,
Can you advise on what we need to do next?  We've got CCLA in and 
acknowledged from Naked Objects Group and the ICLAs in from Robert 
Matthews, Kevin Meyer and myself, Alexander is doing his and I just need 
to track down Dave's.

Things I can envisage are:
- getting moderators set up for isis-dev, to approve isis-dev subscriptions.
- Twiki access
- SVN access
- "howto" guidance for our SVN import

And I imagine there's a dozen other things too.

Thx
Dan

[NOF-Contrib] check on mailing lists, INFRA-2971 now actioned

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

  Hi Benson,

I'm sure you got notified about this, so we now have mailing lists.

I didn't receive anything, so not sure if Robert or I are moderators or 
not, or even how I would check.  Can you advise?

Thx
Dan

Re: [NOF-Contrib] After ICLAs, then what?

[Mohammad N. El-D. <nou...@gm...>]

Dan...

   When the INFRA JIRA is done, all initial committers will have
access to all resources of the project and AFAIR they will have a
default password that they have to change when they do their first
login. But what we will need to do is to move the code, keeping its
history to Apache's SVN repo which is something the INFRA will not do
to us, and sure maintaining documentation in the new Wiki system.

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Dan Haywood <dkh...@gm...> wrote:
>  Hi mentors,
>
> I've just sent my ICLA into sec...@ap..., and Richard Pawson has
> sent the CCLA in also.  Those are the two that relate to the source code
> contributions, so (assuming they are all in order) it should be fine to
> import into SVN?
>
> I'm just chasing the rest of the initial set of committers to make sure that
> the other ICLAs are sent in too.
>
> I see that there's no activity yet on the INFRA-2972, but even if there
> were, what happens next?  I'm guessing we need all need an account so will
> need to provide an account name (I presume the same account suffices for
> email, SVN and wiki)?  But I imagine there's dozens of other things that
> happen, too?
>
> Thx
> Dan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________
> Nakedobjects-contributors mailing list
> Nak...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nakedobjects-contributors
>
>



-- 
Thanks
- Mohammad Nour
  Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community Edition 2.0 User Guide)
  http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html
- LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
- Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein

"Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a
professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less
than your best."
- Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship

"Stay hungry, stay foolish."
- Steve Jobs

Re: [NOF-Contrib] ICLA status?

[Robert M. <rma...@na...>]

This was bit technically challenging. I had to resort to asking a friend
(who had the scanner). I'll just batch it up and send it off now.

Rob

On Thu, 2010-09-09 at 13:29 +0100, Dan Haywood wrote:
> Can I just check where we are with the Apache ICLAs 
> (http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt)?  We all need to complete one, 
> scan it and email to sec...@ap....
> 
> Sent: Dan, Kevin
> Not yet sent: Rob, Dave, Alexander
> 
> Please reply with updated status as necessary.
> 
> Thx
> Dan
> 
> PS: Richard has also sent in the corresponding CCLA for Naked Objects 
> Group formally granting required licenses to Apache.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> 
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________ Nakedobjects-contributors mailing list Nak...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nakedobjects-contributors

[NOF-Contrib] After ICLAs, then what?

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

  Hi mentors,

I've just sent my ICLA into sec...@ap..., and Richard Pawson has 
sent the CCLA in also.  Those are the two that relate to the source code 
contributions, so (assuming they are all in order) it should be fine to 
import into SVN?

I'm just chasing the rest of the initial set of committers to make sure 
that the other ICLAs are sent in too.

I see that there's no activity yet on the INFRA-2972, but even if there 
were, what happens next?  I'm guessing we need all need an account so 
will need to provide an account name (I presume the same account 
suffices for email, SVN and wiki)?  But I imagine there's dozens of 
other things that happen, too?

Thx
Dan

[NOF-Contrib] ICLA status?

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

Can I just check where we are with the Apache ICLAs 
(http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt)?  We all need to complete one, 
scan it and email to sec...@ap....

Sent: Dan, Kevin
Not yet sent: Rob, Dave, Alexander

Please reply with updated status as necessary.

Thx
Dan

PS: Richard has also sent in the corresponding CCLA for Naked Objects 
Group formally granting required licenses to Apache.

Re: [NOF-Contrib] Migration plans

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

On 09/09/2010 11:31, Robert Matthews wrote:
> Dan
>
> My reason for suggestion  moving separately is that root on the NOF
> source is not particularly well organised, ie it wouldn't be a straight
> import.  I'm not suggesting anything long term, just that what ends up
> in the tree (outside of migration) is sanitized and ready to check out.
You're right that there's quite a lot of stuff as siblings of trunk, so 
I can understand that.  You know what, I'm not that fussed either way; 
if that's what you prefer, then I have no objections.

Regarding sorting out license headers, it may not be necessary to use 
shell scripts.  There is a Maven plugin that can do this, see 
http://code.google.com/p/maven-license-plugin/.  Seems to be well 
regarded judging by the comments on the HowTo page 
(http://code.google.com/p/maven-license-plugin/wiki/HowTo).


> WRT to the hierarchy, why are viewers and object stores not alternates?
You're right, they are alternates.  But I didn't want to create too deep 
a hierarchy, and I was thinking that viewers and object stores are "big 
enough" (they appear on the hexagonal architecture diagram) to be at the 
top level.  Alternates is a good place (and a good name) for all the 
other stuff: ldap, or remoting, xstream (or Groovy language support, 
which I forgot to include).


> I'd also like to see other IDE's in there like NetBeans.  I know it more
> than adding a directory but it's just occurred that this is another area
> of opportunity for others to get involved.
Agreed; perhaps a simple little task would be to have the templates 
ported to NetBeans and also IntelliJ (which Alexander uses; he wrote 
that utility to convert).


> As a related matter I want to verify the POM hierarchy now that you have
> made them more directly dependent on each other. I had issues with this
> originally and just need to clarify that it is now possible and we don't
> end up with additional, but empty, modules.
There's a couple of points to this.

First, up: in order to build the hierarchical site that we want, we do 
need to have these parent modules (trunk, core, plugins/alternates).  
These have site docs and several of them (in particular, core) will have 
docbook documentation; but they won't have any src and so when deployed 
into Maven repo there will only be a .pom file, and no corresponding 
archive.

The question really is whether the child (leaf) submodules should use 
these as their parents, or not.  From playing around with Maven2 I came 
to the conclusion that, although it is possible for child submodules to 
have different parents (parent/relative element, if I remember in the 
pom.xml), doing so messes up the site docs, and I think might also mess 
up release tags.  All this to avoid the submodule having to download 
just a .pom file in order to figure out its transitive dependencies.

To me, the lesser of two evils is to have 3 or 4 no-jar modules and very 
simple POMs, rather than lots and lots of extra code to maintain in 
those child submodule POMs.

Ultimately I think this is an issue with Maven 2: it conflates a couple 
of concerns.  I think I read that Maven 3 addresses this, so when it's 
released perhaps we can review this again?

Dan

Re: [NOF-Contrib] Migration plans

[Robert M. <rma...@na...>]

Dan

My reason for suggestion  moving separately is that root on the NOF
source is not particularly well organised, ie it wouldn't be a straight
import.  I'm not suggesting anything long term, just that what ends up
in the tree (outside of migration) is sanitized and ready to check out. 

WRT to the hierarchy, why are viewers and object stores not alternates? 

I'd also like to see other IDE's in there like NetBeans.  I know it more
than adding a directory but it's just occurred that this is another area
of opportunity for others to get involved. 

As a related matter I want to verify the POM hierarchy now that you have
made them more directly dependent on each other. I had issues with this
originally and just need to clarify that it is now possible and we don't
end up with additional, but empty, modules. 

Rob

On Thu, 2010-09-09 at 10:51 +0100, Dan Haywood wrote:
> On 09/09/2010 09:45, Robert Matthews wrote:
> > Dan
> >
> > Had some thoughts about the migration of our code bases to the Apache
> > repo.  I'm not 100% sure we can do it this way, but I was thinking that
> > in the new repo we create migration/nakedobjects and migration/sisters
> > directories and svnimport the respective repositories into these.  Then
> > we svn copy out the relevant portions into their final positions. It
> > will be nice to start with a clean structure (on the NO side) so maybe
> > we should clean the files (change copyright notices and package names)
> > within the migration area before they are all copied across; a lot of
> > which we can do with scripting.
> I agree that keeping the sister projects initally separate from the nof 
> codebase makes sense, but I'm not sure if the nof core needs to put into 
> a special directory.  I think the fact that we're in the incubator and 
> haven't yet released any code says the same thing.
> 
> I think I'd rather do it the other way around:
> - import the nof core into its ultimate destination
> - svn move stuff that won't be released or needs tidying up (eg 
> distribution, examples, documentation)
> - make the mods (with scripting, I agree) of whats left in-situ.
> 
> In terms of the sister projects, I was going to import Wicket, REST and 
> JPA, but leave Tested (FitNesse) cos I need to do some tidy up for that 
> one first.
> 
> > Another issue we might want to consider early on is the number of
> > classes with NakedObject(s) in the name. While some of them are
> > suitable, eg the NakedObject interface represents the idea of naked
> > object (as described in the pattern), there are others that represent
> > the system. These should really be changed as they are only really used
> > in our development domain.
> Agreed.
> 
> > If we think this is the way forward then I'll start some
> > experimentation.
> Could you sketch out the final directory structure / modify the one 
> below.  I was wondering about splitting out plugins into viewers vs 
> objectstores vs alternates (to use the JSR-299 terminology); something like:
> 
> trunk/
>      parent    # or perhaps combine with trunk/pom.xml since we've now 
> got a strict hierarchy?
>      core/
>          common/
>          bytecode/    # I've introduced a new parent here
>              cglib/
>              javassist/
>          metamodel/
>          runtime/
>          remoting/
>          webapp/
>          webserver/
>      viewers/
>          dnd/
>          html/
>          scimpi/
>          wicket/
>          restful/
>          tested/     # eventually
>      objectstores/
>          berkeley/
>          nosql/          # I think you said there's likely to be some 
> common stuff here?
>              couchdb/
>          sql/
>          jpa/
>          xml/
>      alternates/
>          ldap-auth/   # need to factor out from runtime if using JSR-299
>          http-remoting/
>          xstream-marshalling/
>      support/
>          archetypes/
>          ide/
>              eclipse/       # templates; eventually plugins would go here to
>      domain/
>          services/       # what is currently domain-libraries
>          entities/         # eg readymade Customer/Order/OrderDetail
>          values/          # eg to integrate JodaTime, basically the 
> ValueSemanticsProviders + docs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Regards
> > Rob
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[NOF-Contrib] isis-contrib.org

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

  Obviously we're hoping that Apache Isis proper is going to grow and 
prosper as we develop it in the incubator.

But I also foresee that there might be those who want to contribute, but 
who either don't want to submit themselves to the formalism of the 
Apache process, or want to use open source software that is not 
admissable by Apache (in particular LGPL is a no-no, which rules out 
Hibernate).

I've noticed that the Apache Wicket project has a companion project 
called wicketstuff, with its own wicketstuff.org website.  And of course 
older projects such as ant have ant-contrib.  So I've just gone ahead 
and grabbed isis-contrib.org as a domain name, as a possible holder for 
similar contributions for Isis.  I've also registered isis-contrib on 
sourceforge as the place to stuff any code 
(https://sourceforge.net/p/isis-contrib).

I'm not going to be doing anything initially with these, but I thought 
it's worth having as another way of building up our community.

Dan

Re: [NOF-Contrib] Migration plans

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

On 09/09/2010 09:45, Robert Matthews wrote:
> Dan
>
> Had some thoughts about the migration of our code bases to the Apache
> repo.  I'm not 100% sure we can do it this way, but I was thinking that
> in the new repo we create migration/nakedobjects and migration/sisters
> directories and svnimport the respective repositories into these.  Then
> we svn copy out the relevant portions into their final positions. It
> will be nice to start with a clean structure (on the NO side) so maybe
> we should clean the files (change copyright notices and package names)
> within the migration area before they are all copied across; a lot of
> which we can do with scripting.
I agree that keeping the sister projects initally separate from the nof 
codebase makes sense, but I'm not sure if the nof core needs to put into 
a special directory.  I think the fact that we're in the incubator and 
haven't yet released any code says the same thing.

I think I'd rather do it the other way around:
- import the nof core into its ultimate destination
- svn move stuff that won't be released or needs tidying up (eg 
distribution, examples, documentation)
- make the mods (with scripting, I agree) of whats left in-situ.

In terms of the sister projects, I was going to import Wicket, REST and 
JPA, but leave Tested (FitNesse) cos I need to do some tidy up for that 
one first.

> Another issue we might want to consider early on is the number of
> classes with NakedObject(s) in the name. While some of them are
> suitable, eg the NakedObject interface represents the idea of naked
> object (as described in the pattern), there are others that represent
> the system. These should really be changed as they are only really used
> in our development domain.
Agreed.

> If we think this is the way forward then I'll start some
> experimentation.
Could you sketch out the final directory structure / modify the one 
below.  I was wondering about splitting out plugins into viewers vs 
objectstores vs alternates (to use the JSR-299 terminology); something like:

trunk/
     parent    # or perhaps combine with trunk/pom.xml since we've now 
got a strict hierarchy?
     core/
         common/
         bytecode/    # I've introduced a new parent here
             cglib/
             javassist/
         metamodel/
         runtime/
         remoting/
         webapp/
         webserver/
     viewers/
         dnd/
         html/
         scimpi/
         wicket/
         restful/
         tested/     # eventually
     objectstores/
         berkeley/
         nosql/          # I think you said there's likely to be some 
common stuff here?
             couchdb/
         sql/
         jpa/
         xml/
     alternates/
         ldap-auth/   # need to factor out from runtime if using JSR-299
         http-remoting/
         xstream-marshalling/
     support/
         archetypes/
         ide/
             eclipse/       # templates; eventually plugins would go here to
     domain/
         services/       # what is currently domain-libraries
         entities/         # eg readymade Customer/Order/OrderDetail
         values/          # eg to integrate JodaTime, basically the 
ValueSemanticsProviders + docs




> Regards
> Rob
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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[NOF-Contrib] Migration plans

[Robert M. <rma...@na...>]

Dan

Had some thoughts about the migration of our code bases to the Apache
repo.  I'm not 100% sure we can do it this way, but I was thinking that
in the new repo we create migration/nakedobjects and migration/sisters
directories and svnimport the respective repositories into these.  Then
we svn copy out the relevant portions into their final positions. It
will be nice to start with a clean structure (on the NO side) so maybe
we should clean the files (change copyright notices and package names)
within the migration area before they are all copied across; a lot of
which we can do with scripting.

Another issue we might want to consider early on is the number of
classes with NakedObject(s) in the name. While some of them are
suitable, eg the NakedObject interface represents the idea of naked
object (as described in the pattern), there are others that represent
the system. These should really be changed as they are only really used
in our development domain.

If we think this is the way forward then I'll start some
experimentation.

Regards
Rob

Re: [NOF-Contrib] apache isis interview

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

  Hi Jessica,
Interviews answers within - hope they're not too long.  Thanks again for 
the opportunity for us to spread the message.
Dan

On 07/09/2010 15:12, jth...@so... wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I am the editor over at www.jaxenter.com, the new international web portal
> for S&S Media, whose portfolio includes www.jaxenter.de and a number of
> in-print magazines. We also recently held our first UK-based conference,
> JAX London, in cooperation with OSGi DevCon, and have a second UK
> conference booked for this autumn.
>
> We recently ran a news about the Apache Isis project:
>
> http://jaxenter.com/two-apache-jakarta-projects-enter-the-attic-and-one-apache-project-enters-the-incubator-30727.html
>
> and wondered whether it would be possible to arrange a short email
> interview with you, about the project? Please find the questions below;
> it'd be great if you could answer them for us!
>
> Hope to hear from you!
> Jessica Thornsby.


> What is the Apache Isis project?
Apache Isis is a pojo-based framework to enable the rapid development of 
enterprise domain-driven (DDD) applications.  In other words, it takes 
care of infrastructure concerns to allow you to focus on the bit that 
matters to your business, the core domain logic.

Isis' definition of "infrastructure" goes somewhat further than most 
though: not only does it take care of persistence, remoting and security 
concerns, it also take care of the user interface too.  It does this by 
automatically rendering your domain objects in a generic object-oriented 
user interface.  This style of user interface is fantastic for building 
up (what DDD practitioners call) the ubiquitous language with your 
domain experts: they get a very direct representation of the domain 
objects and allocated responsibilities.  This helps you as the developer 
too: you can focus on getting to grips with the intricacies of the 
domain rather than being waylaid by technical concerns.  I probably 
should point out that some of the newer viewers we've been working on do 
also allow customization of the UI, so you don't have to stick with the 
default views if you don't want to.

Another important architecture pattern adopted by Isis is the hexagonal 
architecture: allowing both the front-end (ie presentation layer) and 
back-end (persistence layer and related services) to be pluggable.  That 
allows you to take your same domain application and run it as a webapp, 
as a client/server desktop app, or with a RESTful interface.  You can 
also choose to persist your domain objects to an RDBMS, to a NoSQL 
store, or even (by the time we graduate) to  the Cloud.

In terms of what Isis means to you, the programmer, it's a matter of 
writing your domain objects as pojos following various programming 
conventions, and annotated with Isis' own annotations as required.  From 
this Isis builds up a metamodel which is then used to render the UI, to 
perform remoting, to interact with security, etc etc.  You can think of 
the UI elements of Isis as being analogous to an ORM; but rather than 
reflecting your domain objects into an RDBMS, it reflects it back to the 
user.

Something else we're aiming to do during incubation is to make it easier 
for extend and customize the framework.  Much of the code base for Isis 
was donated from the (now superseded) Naked Objects Framework for Java.  
Some of that code dates back to Java 1.1, well before generics, before 
Spring, before many of the core JEE APIs.  Right now Isis has a variety 
of own home-grown mechanisms for such things as bootstrapping, 
customizing and dependency injection. We're aiming instead to 
standardize on JSR-299 (CDI) for both JEE and JSE deployments, because 
we think that's likely to become a popular standard for enterprise apps 
going forward.  We hope that will reduce the learning curve for 
programmers wanting to bend the framework to fit into their particular 
architectural landscape.

Last but not least, we also hope to provide some "off the shelf" domain 
models, pre-tested, so that you use as a starting point for your own 
application.  Suppose you need to send out email, or render a PDF, or 
send a domain event  to a message bus; or you wanted a Customer, Order 
or perhaps Communication object; or perhaps you wanted to use JodaTime 
or the timeandmoney library for your value types...  the idea is to have 
modules available that you can import and then use or adapt.


> Over the past few years, there seems to have been a resurgence in
> interest, in object modelling at the enterprise level. What do you believe
> is the driving force behind this?

I guess there are several possible explanations.  I don't know if any 
one of these should take all the credit, or whether it's a combination 
of factors, but you're right: enterprise object modelling is in vogue.

I guess the first driver I'd cite is domain-driven design, as 
popularized by Eric Evans' book of the same name.  Eric's book is 
basically a patterns book, and I don't think he necessarily invented any 
of the patterns he describes there (though some of the names are new).  
But what he did do very well was to bring those patterns together to 
form a coherent pattern language, while compellingly arguing the case 
that we should devote the lion's share of our development efforts where 
it matters: in the domain.  Certainly, so far as Isis (and its 
predecessor, the NOF) goes, we've adopted the terminology of DDD because 
it helps would-be users understand which DDD patterns we try to support.

I think another factor is that rise of pojo-based frameworks such as 
Spring and Hibernate.  Back in the "bad old days" of J2EE 1.2/1.3, 
domain objects were so polluted with infrastructure concerns that it 
could be very hard to even see the business logic, let alone have a 
conversation as to whether it was correct.  The weight of those older 
frameworks also meant that refactoring was tiresome in the extreme, 
severely throttling back the feedback loop with the business domain 
experts and making the ubiquitous language that much harder to develop.

Another driver could be the maturing of web frameworks.  With the first 
generation of such frameworks (typified for example by Struts 1) it 
could be very easy to have business logic creep into the web layer, 
leaving anaemic domain objects acting as little more than data holders.  
Newer frameworks such as Wicket and Tapestry avoid this by adopting a 
component model; and in so doing, it lets our domain objects remain rich.

Perhaps one further driver is the influence of agile development and 
TDD/BDD, a practice that gives us good quality, well-designed and of 
course tested code.  I'm pretty sure that frameworks such as Spring 
wouldn't have become so popular if testability hadn't been as much as a 
concern, and if that hadn't happened, then we might still be stuck with 
J2EE 1.2 and anaemic models.


> At the project proposal, you state that attaining Apache Incubator status
> will help legitimise the "naked objects" concept. Why do you believe this
> concept has attracted criticism?
When I say "legitimise", it's mostly about exposing the framework and 
the naked objects pattern to a wider audience, hopefully so that we can 
pick up good new ideas and develop the framework further.  As I 
indicated in the proposal, right now it seems that many Java developers 
haven't even heard of the naked objects pattern.  But there are 
frameworks out there overlap to some extent with naked objects; I'm 
thinking of Rails, Grails and Spring Roo.  However, whereas these other 
frameworks tend to use scaffolding / code generation for the non-domain 
layers, naked objects avoids the use of code generation completely.  No 
code means no maintenance, and that keeps the feedback loop back to the 
business tight.

But yes, naked objects as a pattern has attracted some criticism, 
generally along the lines of "a generic UI would never be sufficient for 
my users, I need to be able to customize the UI".  We have two responses 
to this.  The first is: you can't really say that 'til you try it.  
There is in fact a substantial existence proof of the efficacy of the 
naked objects concept, namely the benefit administrations application 
that runs in a government department in Ireland.  That app is used by 
1500+ users daily, is responsible for administering over EUR5bn a year 
in benefit payments, and still (and this is testament to the sort of 
well-crafted domain models you get by by following a naked objects 
approach) still pushes out a new release every month, six years in.  But 
the UI for this system is completely generic.  To use the system the 
end-users obviously need to understand the domain objects , but they 
require very little other training: the interaction idiom is consistent 
throughout.

All that said, our other response to that criticism is somewhat more 
pragmatic: "if you can't beat them, join them".  So, yes, the newer 
viewers that we've been working on do allow more customization of the 
UI.  This is always optional; no customization and you'll get a generic 
view, then layer customization on top afterwards if needed.  I tend to 
think of it a little like denormalizing a relational database.  With an 
RDBMS we start fully normalized, and then denormalize to improve 
performance.  With a naked objects-style system, we start with a fully 
generic OOUI, then customize on the commonly-trodden paths where the 
interaction idiom needs to be slicker (improve the "performance" of the 
end-users, if you will).  In a denormalized database, you selectively 
duplicate data.  In a customized naked objects system, you selectively 
duplicate logic.  The pros and cons are just the same.

All that said though, the CTO for the Irish government department tells 
us he doesn't want to deploy these newer customizable viewers: his 
experience over the years of building apps (which bears out my own) is 
that the UI concerns can consume an inordinate amount of effort.  He'd 
rather have a non-customizable UI if only because it removes the 
temptation to "tinker"; instead the team gets on focusing on the stuff 
that matters: the domain logic.

> Does it seem likely Isis will encourage synergies between Naked Objects
> concepts and other Apache projects? At the proposal, you mention
> developing new viewers and object stores, for example a new viewer using
> Tapestry........
>
Well, I do hope so.  One of the newer customizable viewers that we're 
bringing in using Apache Wicket, which I ended up working on as a result 
of a chapter I wrote for my book last year [1] which described how to 
use Wicket as a hand-crafted UI for the original Naked Objects 
Framework.  At the time I chose Wicket for that chapter because it was 
easy to learn, and was up-and-coming.  I'm now hoping that some of the 
vibrant Wicket community might explore Isis' Wicket OOUI viewer and help 
me develop it further.

You mentioned Tapestry, and yes, we've had an expression of interest in 
building a viewer in that framework.  My understanding of Tapestry is 
that - like Wicket - it is also component-based, so it'd be great to see 
something put together by someone who really knows Tapestry well (in 
comparison, my own knowledge of Wicket is comparatively shallow).  I'm 
really hopeful that we get something there.

Also on the UI front, I noticed that our Apache champion is also 
involved in the Apache MyFaces project.  He doesn't know it yet, but I'm 
going to see if I can cajole him into helping me get a MyFaces viewer 
off the ground, too ;-)

But probably one of the most significant integrations will be in terms 
of JSR-299.  Our champion, again, is one of the leading lights of 
JSR-299 through the OpenWebBeans project, and I know of at least two 
others involved who are committers on that project.  So their input is 
going to be invaluable to meet our objective of using JSR-299 to 
underpin the architecture of Isis.

There's probably a dozen other Apache projects too that I can see 
synergies with - that's the nice thing about targetting the middle 
domain layer, it touches everything.  They include: persistence-oriented 
projects such as JDO, OpenJPA and CouchDB; integration-oriented projects 
such as Camel and WS; tying in with the Bean Validation project for 
JSR-303 support; not to mention the various UI frameworks such as 
Wicket, Tapestry, MyFaces, Click, Pivot, ... the list goes on.  I really 
don't know how many of these will come to anything, but I'm looking 
forward to building as many bridges as I can.

So, I think that's it.  If I can just say before we close that, 
obviously, we've only just entered the incubator, so we have a good deal 
of work to do before we even get our first release out.  But I hope a 
few people reading will be interested enough to follow our efforts (or 
even feel inclined to lend a hand!)


[1] Domain Driven Design using Naked Objects, Pragmatic Bookshelf, 
2009.  http://pragprog.com/titles/dhnako

Re: [NOF-Contrib] Fwd: No dev-, user- lists for small podlings (was: Re: [PROPOSAL] Kitty to Enter the Incubator)

[Mohammad N. El-D. <nou...@gm...>]

+1 on what James Carman said. In short, I think it is better not to
have user list now and if it turns out that we need it we can create
at later time.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:34 PM, dan haywood
<da...@ha...> wrote:
> Discussion on the general incubator list.
>
> There's a couple of different opinions floating around... some mentors think
> that a single mailing list for both dev and user is sufficient for small
> communities, others (per below) just suggest leaving both.
>
> Was gonna refer to the incubator mailing list archives, but looks like it
> runs as an overnight batch job so nothing there currently.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James Carman <ja...@ca...>
> Date: 8 September 2010 13:06
> Subject: Re: No dev-, user- lists for small podlings (was: Re: [PROPOSAL]
> Kitty to Enter the Incubator)
> To: ge...@in...
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:39 AM, dan haywood
> <da...@ha...> wrote:
>>
>> For the moment at least the dev community is more active (or at least more
>> vocal), so their mailing list should be the main focal point.  As I said
>> in
>> the other email, when we have more user traffic than dev traffic, then
>> we can vote to split them out.
>>
>
> Why are we even having this discussion?  When did mailing lists become
> such a heavyweight operation that we have to discuss at length whether
> they should even exist?  Just create the user/dev/commits/issues lists
> and be done with it.  If nobody uses the user list, so be it.  I think
> it's just more confusing to start moving traffic from one list to
> another.  Keep things consistent.
>
>> And another benefit of putting user traffic on the dev list is that
>> it'll give the devs exposure to any probs that regular users are having
>> with
>> actually using the framework (ie so we can mature its documentation etc)
>>
>
> The developers should be "listening" to the user list so that they can
> answer questions.  They can't just hide in the dev list and not listen
> to the community.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: gen...@in...
> For additional commands, e-mail: gen...@in...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
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>



-- 
Thanks
- Mohammad Nour
  Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community Edition 2.0 User Guide)
  http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html
- LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
- Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein

"Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a
professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less
than your best."
- Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship

"Stay hungry, stay foolish."
- Steve Jobs

[NOF-Contrib] Fwd: No dev-, user- lists for small podlings (was: Re: [PROPOSAL] Kitty to Enter the Incubator)

[dan h. <da...@ha...>]

Discussion on the general incubator list.

There's a couple of different opinions floating around... some mentors think
that a single mailing list for both dev and user is sufficient for small
communities, others (per below) just suggest leaving both.

Was gonna refer to the incubator mailing list archives, but looks like it
runs as an overnight batch job so nothing there currently.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: James Carman <ja...@ca...>
Date: 8 September 2010 13:06
Subject: Re: No dev-, user- lists for small podlings (was: Re: [PROPOSAL]
Kitty to Enter the Incubator)
To: ge...@in...


On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:39 AM, dan haywood
<da...@ha...> wrote:
>
> For the moment at least the dev community is more active (or at least more
> vocal), so their mailing list should be the main focal point.  As I said
in
> the other email, when we have more user traffic than dev traffic, then
> we can vote to split them out.
>

Why are we even having this discussion?  When did mailing lists become
such a heavyweight operation that we have to discuss at length whether
they should even exist?  Just create the user/dev/commits/issues lists
and be done with it.  If nobody uses the user list, so be it.  I think
it's just more confusing to start moving traffic from one list to
another.  Keep things consistent.

> And another benefit of putting user traffic on the dev list is that
> it'll give the devs exposure to any probs that regular users are having
with
> actually using the framework (ie so we can mature its documentation etc)
>

The developers should be "listening" to the user list so that they can
answer questions.  They can't just hide in the dev list and not listen
to the community.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: gen...@in...
For additional commands, e-mail: gen...@in...

Re: [NOF-Contrib] No dev-, user- lists for small podlings (was: Re: [PROPOSAL] Kitty to Enter the Incubator)

[dan h. <da...@ha...>]

On 8 September 2010 12:19, Robert Matthews <rma...@na...>wrote:

> One point against this is that we have had a long-standing user list, ...
>


> ... People are used to
> the user list already.


 We do, but it's going to change anyway when we make the apache mailing list
available.



> If we are going to combine the two then I
> suggest we have a -user list now and let the developers grow out of
> that.
>

I disagree; I think we should follow the precedents on other projects
(Sling, OWB, MyFaces).

For the moment at least the dev community is more active (or at least more
vocal), so their mailing list should be the main focal point.  As I said in
the other email, when we have more user traffic than dev traffic, then
we can vote to split them out.

And another benefit of putting user traffic on the dev list is that
it'll give the devs exposure to any probs that regular users are having with
actually using the framework (ie so we can mature its documentation etc)

Dan



>
> Rob
>
> On Wed, 2010-09-08 at 08:16 +0100, Dan Haywood wrote:
> > Isis mentors:
> > Given we're in the same situation and are still being bootstrapped,
> > should we follow this advice, ie start off with a combined mailing list
> > for -dev and -user?
> > Dan
> >
> > On 08/09/2010 08:10, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Greg Stein<gs...@gm...>  wrote:
> > >> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 20:29, Matthew Sacks<ma...@ma...
> >wrote:
> > >>> ...
> > >>> *Mailing Lists*
> > >>>
> > >>> kitty-dev
> > >>> kitty-commits
> > >>> kitty-user
> > >>>
> > >> Is there a large user community already? If not, then splitting the
> > >> community across dev/user does not make sense. You want to keep the
> users
> > >> and developers on the same mailing list until one starts to overwhelm
> the
> > >> other. By partitioning the lists too early, you risk never reaching
> > >> "critical mass" on *either* mailing list.
> > > This is actually great advice, and I wish we'd done this with a couple
> > > of podlings that are currently too small to graduate.
> > >
> > > In retrospect empire-db and etch really could have done without the
> > > user- list IMO.
> > >
> > > Martijn
> >
>  > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: gen...@in...
> > For additional commands, e-mail: gen...@in...
>
>
>

Re: [NOF-Contrib] IP for patches to NOF

[<dsl...@di...>]

Hi

As Dan and Rob mentioned, my work on writing the SWT viewer has mainly been a way to get up to speed on the NOF and SWT.  It is truly an experiment and there is no plan to replace the DND viewer with what I am doing.  Like Rob mentioned, it is my way of understanding the framework and creating a viewer the SWT way.

-Dave  

--- rma...@na... wrote:

From: Robert Matthews <rma...@na...>
To: da...@ha...
Cc: abigale SOLUTIONS - Michael Radtke <mr...@ab...>,	nak...@li...
Subject: Re: [NOF-Contrib] IP for patches to NOF
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:26:09 +0100

Hi

As Dan says, I am making most of the changes to the Scimpi framework at
the moment as I am in the midst of writing a web app.  However, I am
half way though some improvements to the DND as well as something of a
reorganisation and tidy up.  As the framework already allows new views
to be created easily by a programmer, my main objective was to introduce
a way to allow dynamic view design so that the user can create views on
the fly that best represent the objects that he is working with.  When I
have my web app working then I will have suitable domain model to pursue
these further and hopefully some more time.

Dave started experimenting with Naked Objects and the SWT, and would
like to create an SWT viewer.  Although he has duplicated some for of
the DND functionality this was as a way of undererstanding the NOF and
learning about SWT.  It is not actually his aim to port the DND viewer,
but instead to create a viewer that works in the SWT way.  We're not
trying to duplicate work where we can avoid it, and also it starts
sending out a mixed message.

Anyway there are plenty of opportunities for improving and adding to the
DND viewer and I'd love to have some help. (BTW lists and tables are
already sortable - right-click on them and use the sort menu.)

Regards
Rob


On Tue, 2010-09-07 at 22:51 +0100, Dan Haywood wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> Before I reply, did you see the news? - Naked Objects has been ACCEPTED 
> into Apache, to be called Apache Isis.  Very cool.
> 
> Anyway, on to ideas...   By the way, I've cc:ed this onto the naked 
> objects contributors mailing list cos I think some of the guys there 
> might be interested also.
> 
> So, per your suggestion on enhancements to the DnD viewer, I know that 
> Rob has a bunch of things he'd like to do with the DnD viewer, and he 
> made mention of them in the Apache Isis Proposal 
> (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IsisProposal if you missed it) so I 
> think he still intends to do them.  I know for a fact that he's not an 
> OSX guy so he could probably do with some help on testing.  That said, I 
> notice that most of the checkins he's doing at the moment are for his 
> Scimpi web viewer, so I think his priorities are there at the mo'.
> 
> If you are interested in the DnD viewer, then you should know that Dave 
> Slaughter started porting it to run on SWT. I think he got a version 
> running, but then decided (because the current version is somewhat in 
> flux) to start over with the more stable 4.0.0 codebase.  I haven't 
> pinged him recently on it, so I'm not sure where's he up to.
> 
> As to other ideas, I have a bunch of them listed on my blog at: 
> http://danhaywood.com/resources/project-ideas/.  I originally wrote this 
> for an MSc lecturer as project ideas for his grad students, hence the 
> repetition in the intros.
> 
> I know that Alexander Krasnukhin is considering writing a GWT viewer, 
> possibly using my Restful Objects as its backend.  I'm always on the 
> lookout for other viewer opportunities, though.  Other web technologies 
> that I've thought might be good platforms are Vaadin, Tapestry, MyFaces 
> (ie JSF), Pivot and Click.  The last four of these are Apache projects, 
> hence a tie-in... we've had an expression of interest from Uli Stark (a 
> Tapestry committer) to write a Tapestry-based viewer.  I also noticed 
> that our Apache champion, Mark Struberg, is also a committer on the 
> MyFaces project.  He doesn't know it yet but I'm hoping that something 
> might come of that.
> 
> Going back to the project ideas, I do have a mothballed set of Eclipse 
> IDE plugins that need resurrecting, and an equally dusty RCP-based 
> viewer.  If you have any knowledge of Eclipse, then these would be worth 
> looking into (the IDE plugins probably somewhat easier to work with than 
> the RCP viewer).
> 
> I'm aware though that lots of the stuff above are really big, 
> heavyweight projects, and you might not feel so inclined to donate quite 
> so much time.  So another thing I'd like to do is start to develop a 
> library of domain services (eg email, SMS, PDF rendering, barcoding etc) 
> that other users can just drop into their own programs.  If you enjoy 
> writing applications (as opposed to framework code) then this might be 
> worth considering.
> 
> In a similar vein, I've also thought that we might have a library of 
> domain entity "modules", eg for customer, or communications, or 
> workflow, or audited actions, etc etc.
> 
> OK, hope that's useful, look forward to hearing from you,
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/09/2010 17:29, abigale SOLUTIONS - Michael Radtke wrote:
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > one idea is to enhance the DND viewer a little bit (user sortable lists, improved status bar, better OSX support e.g). Another vision is that it would be nice to have a system that can manage historical object releases.
> >
> > But in your former offering you told me that you have a bunch of ideas too. What are these? Perhaps I can help you?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 02.09.2010 um 22:45 schrieb Dan Haywood:
> >
> >> Hi Mike,
> >> Thanks a lot for this.
> >>
> >> Many apologies for not getting back to you ... I don't know how that happened, trust me, I'm always keen to build the community.  So, yes - I very much would like to take you up on this!  Do you have any specific areas that have caught your eye (and apologies if we've talked about this before).
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Dan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 02/09/2010 16:09, abigale SOLUTIONS - Michael Radtke wrote:
> >>> Hi Dan,
> >>>
> >>> this is the official part of the mail:
> >>> With this mail I confirm that I grant the IP of my patches to Naked Objects Group Ltd!
> >>>
> >>> And here is the private one:
> >>> Some two month ago you asked me if I'd be interested in becoming more formally involved... do you remember?
> >>> Anyway, I had consented but then I haven't heard anything more. Are you still interested in this, or have any problems arised?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Am 31.08.2010 um 12:08 schrieb dkh...@us...:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Michael,
> >>>> Earlier this year you were good enough to submit three
> >>>> patches (I make it) to the naked objects framework.  We're
> >>>> now looking to donate the NOF to Apache (see
> >>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IsisProposal).  One thing
> >>>> that's been raised is ownership of all patches, so we're
> >>>> just tracking down individuals like your goodself who have
> >>>> done so.
> >>>> Would you be good enough to confirm that you grant the IP of
> >>>> your patches to Naked Objects Group Ltd?
> >>>> Many thanks,
> >>>> Dan
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> This message has been sent to you, a registered SourceForge.net user,
> >>>> by another site user, through the SourceForge.net site.  This message
> >>>> has been delivered to your SourceForge.net mail alias.  You may reply
> >>>> to this message using the "Reply" feature of your email client, or
> >>>> using the messaging facility of SourceForge.net at:
> >>>> https://sourceforge.net/sendmessage.php?touser=604772
> >>>>
> >> <dkhaywood.vcf>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> 
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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Re: [NOF-Contrib] IP for patches to NOF

[Robert M. <rma...@na...>]

Hi

As Dan says, I am making most of the changes to the Scimpi framework at
the moment as I am in the midst of writing a web app.  However, I am
half way though some improvements to the DND as well as something of a
reorganisation and tidy up.  As the framework already allows new views
to be created easily by a programmer, my main objective was to introduce
a way to allow dynamic view design so that the user can create views on
the fly that best represent the objects that he is working with.  When I
have my web app working then I will have suitable domain model to pursue
these further and hopefully some more time.

Dave started experimenting with Naked Objects and the SWT, and would
like to create an SWT viewer.  Although he has duplicated some for of
the DND functionality this was as a way of undererstanding the NOF and
learning about SWT.  It is not actually his aim to port the DND viewer,
but instead to create a viewer that works in the SWT way.  We're not
trying to duplicate work where we can avoid it, and also it starts
sending out a mixed message.

Anyway there are plenty of opportunities for improving and adding to the
DND viewer and I'd love to have some help. (BTW lists and tables are
already sortable - right-click on them and use the sort menu.)

Regards
Rob


On Tue, 2010-09-07 at 22:51 +0100, Dan Haywood wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> Before I reply, did you see the news? - Naked Objects has been ACCEPTED 
> into Apache, to be called Apache Isis.  Very cool.
> 
> Anyway, on to ideas...   By the way, I've cc:ed this onto the naked 
> objects contributors mailing list cos I think some of the guys there 
> might be interested also.
> 
> So, per your suggestion on enhancements to the DnD viewer, I know that 
> Rob has a bunch of things he'd like to do with the DnD viewer, and he 
> made mention of them in the Apache Isis Proposal 
> (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IsisProposal if you missed it) so I 
> think he still intends to do them.  I know for a fact that he's not an 
> OSX guy so he could probably do with some help on testing.  That said, I 
> notice that most of the checkins he's doing at the moment are for his 
> Scimpi web viewer, so I think his priorities are there at the mo'.
> 
> If you are interested in the DnD viewer, then you should know that Dave 
> Slaughter started porting it to run on SWT. I think he got a version 
> running, but then decided (because the current version is somewhat in 
> flux) to start over with the more stable 4.0.0 codebase.  I haven't 
> pinged him recently on it, so I'm not sure where's he up to.
> 
> As to other ideas, I have a bunch of them listed on my blog at: 
> http://danhaywood.com/resources/project-ideas/.  I originally wrote this 
> for an MSc lecturer as project ideas for his grad students, hence the 
> repetition in the intros.
> 
> I know that Alexander Krasnukhin is considering writing a GWT viewer, 
> possibly using my Restful Objects as its backend.  I'm always on the 
> lookout for other viewer opportunities, though.  Other web technologies 
> that I've thought might be good platforms are Vaadin, Tapestry, MyFaces 
> (ie JSF), Pivot and Click.  The last four of these are Apache projects, 
> hence a tie-in... we've had an expression of interest from Uli Stark (a 
> Tapestry committer) to write a Tapestry-based viewer.  I also noticed 
> that our Apache champion, Mark Struberg, is also a committer on the 
> MyFaces project.  He doesn't know it yet but I'm hoping that something 
> might come of that.
> 
> Going back to the project ideas, I do have a mothballed set of Eclipse 
> IDE plugins that need resurrecting, and an equally dusty RCP-based 
> viewer.  If you have any knowledge of Eclipse, then these would be worth 
> looking into (the IDE plugins probably somewhat easier to work with than 
> the RCP viewer).
> 
> I'm aware though that lots of the stuff above are really big, 
> heavyweight projects, and you might not feel so inclined to donate quite 
> so much time.  So another thing I'd like to do is start to develop a 
> library of domain services (eg email, SMS, PDF rendering, barcoding etc) 
> that other users can just drop into their own programs.  If you enjoy 
> writing applications (as opposed to framework code) then this might be 
> worth considering.
> 
> In a similar vein, I've also thought that we might have a library of 
> domain entity "modules", eg for customer, or communications, or 
> workflow, or audited actions, etc etc.
> 
> OK, hope that's useful, look forward to hearing from you,
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/09/2010 17:29, abigale SOLUTIONS - Michael Radtke wrote:
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > one idea is to enhance the DND viewer a little bit (user sortable lists, improved status bar, better OSX support e.g). Another vision is that it would be nice to have a system that can manage historical object releases.
> >
> > But in your former offering you told me that you have a bunch of ideas too. What are these? Perhaps I can help you?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 02.09.2010 um 22:45 schrieb Dan Haywood:
> >
> >> Hi Mike,
> >> Thanks a lot for this.
> >>
> >> Many apologies for not getting back to you ... I don't know how that happened, trust me, I'm always keen to build the community.  So, yes - I very much would like to take you up on this!  Do you have any specific areas that have caught your eye (and apologies if we've talked about this before).
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Dan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 02/09/2010 16:09, abigale SOLUTIONS - Michael Radtke wrote:
> >>> Hi Dan,
> >>>
> >>> this is the official part of the mail:
> >>> With this mail I confirm that I grant the IP of my patches to Naked Objects Group Ltd!
> >>>
> >>> And here is the private one:
> >>> Some two month ago you asked me if I'd be interested in becoming more formally involved... do you remember?
> >>> Anyway, I had consented but then I haven't heard anything more. Are you still interested in this, or have any problems arised?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Am 31.08.2010 um 12:08 schrieb dkh...@us...:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Michael,
> >>>> Earlier this year you were good enough to submit three
> >>>> patches (I make it) to the naked objects framework.  We're
> >>>> now looking to donate the NOF to Apache (see
> >>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IsisProposal).  One thing
> >>>> that's been raised is ownership of all patches, so we're
> >>>> just tracking down individuals like your goodself who have
> >>>> done so.
> >>>> Would you be good enough to confirm that you grant the IP of
> >>>> your patches to Naked Objects Group Ltd?
> >>>> Many thanks,
> >>>> Dan
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> This message has been sent to you, a registered SourceForge.net user,
> >>>> by another site user, through the SourceForge.net site.  This message
> >>>> has been delivered to your SourceForge.net mail alias.  You may reply
> >>>> to this message using the "Reply" feature of your email client, or
> >>>> using the messaging facility of SourceForge.net at:
> >>>> https://sourceforge.net/sendmessage.php?touser=604772
> >>>>
> >> <dkhaywood.vcf>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> 
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________ Nakedobjects-contributors mailing list Nak...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nakedobjects-contributors

Re: [NOF-Contrib] IP for patches to NOF

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

  Hi Mike,
Before I reply, did you see the news? - Naked Objects has been ACCEPTED 
into Apache, to be called Apache Isis.  Very cool.

Anyway, on to ideas...   By the way, I've cc:ed this onto the naked 
objects contributors mailing list cos I think some of the guys there 
might be interested also.

So, per your suggestion on enhancements to the DnD viewer, I know that 
Rob has a bunch of things he'd like to do with the DnD viewer, and he 
made mention of them in the Apache Isis Proposal 
(http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IsisProposal if you missed it) so I 
think he still intends to do them.  I know for a fact that he's not an 
OSX guy so he could probably do with some help on testing.  That said, I 
notice that most of the checkins he's doing at the moment are for his 
Scimpi web viewer, so I think his priorities are there at the mo'.

If you are interested in the DnD viewer, then you should know that Dave 
Slaughter started porting it to run on SWT. I think he got a version 
running, but then decided (because the current version is somewhat in 
flux) to start over with the more stable 4.0.0 codebase.  I haven't 
pinged him recently on it, so I'm not sure where's he up to.

As to other ideas, I have a bunch of them listed on my blog at: 
http://danhaywood.com/resources/project-ideas/.  I originally wrote this 
for an MSc lecturer as project ideas for his grad students, hence the 
repetition in the intros.

I know that Alexander Krasnukhin is considering writing a GWT viewer, 
possibly using my Restful Objects as its backend.  I'm always on the 
lookout for other viewer opportunities, though.  Other web technologies 
that I've thought might be good platforms are Vaadin, Tapestry, MyFaces 
(ie JSF), Pivot and Click.  The last four of these are Apache projects, 
hence a tie-in... we've had an expression of interest from Uli Stark (a 
Tapestry committer) to write a Tapestry-based viewer.  I also noticed 
that our Apache champion, Mark Struberg, is also a committer on the 
MyFaces project.  He doesn't know it yet but I'm hoping that something 
might come of that.

Going back to the project ideas, I do have a mothballed set of Eclipse 
IDE plugins that need resurrecting, and an equally dusty RCP-based 
viewer.  If you have any knowledge of Eclipse, then these would be worth 
looking into (the IDE plugins probably somewhat easier to work with than 
the RCP viewer).

I'm aware though that lots of the stuff above are really big, 
heavyweight projects, and you might not feel so inclined to donate quite 
so much time.  So another thing I'd like to do is start to develop a 
library of domain services (eg email, SMS, PDF rendering, barcoding etc) 
that other users can just drop into their own programs.  If you enjoy 
writing applications (as opposed to framework code) then this might be 
worth considering.

In a similar vein, I've also thought that we might have a library of 
domain entity "modules", eg for customer, or communications, or 
workflow, or audited actions, etc etc.

OK, hope that's useful, look forward to hearing from you,

Dan




On 07/09/2010 17:29, abigale SOLUTIONS - Michael Radtke wrote:
> Hi Dan,
>
> one idea is to enhance the DND viewer a little bit (user sortable lists, improved status bar, better OSX support e.g). Another vision is that it would be nice to have a system that can manage historical object releases.
>
> But in your former offering you told me that you have a bunch of ideas too. What are these? Perhaps I can help you?
>
> Cheers
> Mike
>
>
>
> Am 02.09.2010 um 22:45 schrieb Dan Haywood:
>
>> Hi Mike,
>> Thanks a lot for this.
>>
>> Many apologies for not getting back to you ... I don't know how that happened, trust me, I'm always keen to build the community.  So, yes - I very much would like to take you up on this!  Do you have any specific areas that have caught your eye (and apologies if we've talked about this before).
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/09/2010 16:09, abigale SOLUTIONS - Michael Radtke wrote:
>>> Hi Dan,
>>>
>>> this is the official part of the mail:
>>> With this mail I confirm that I grant the IP of my patches to Naked Objects Group Ltd!
>>>
>>> And here is the private one:
>>> Some two month ago you asked me if I'd be interested in becoming more formally involved... do you remember?
>>> Anyway, I had consented but then I haven't heard anything more. Are you still interested in this, or have any problems arised?
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 31.08.2010 um 12:08 schrieb dkh...@us...:
>>>
>>>> Hi Michael,
>>>> Earlier this year you were good enough to submit three
>>>> patches (I make it) to the naked objects framework.  We're
>>>> now looking to donate the NOF to Apache (see
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IsisProposal).  One thing
>>>> that's been raised is ownership of all patches, so we're
>>>> just tracking down individuals like your goodself who have
>>>> done so.
>>>> Would you be good enough to confirm that you grant the IP of
>>>> your patches to Naked Objects Group Ltd?
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This message has been sent to you, a registered SourceForge.net user,
>>>> by another site user, through the SourceForge.net site.  This message
>>>> has been delivered to your SourceForge.net mail alias.  You may reply
>>>> to this message using the "Reply" feature of your email client, or
>>>> using the messaging facility of SourceForge.net at:
>>>> https://sourceforge.net/sendmessage.php?touser=604772
>>>>
>> <dkhaywood.vcf>
>

Re: [NOF-Contrib] XmlMind as editor, 2nd opinion

[Dan H. <dkh...@gm...>]

  OK... that saves me from looking at OO myself, then.

I have your earlier email to use as a basis for me to provide guidance 
on how to perform common actions.  I also intend to create basic 
placeholders for all the relevant modules as well.

Good-o.

Dan


On 07/09/2010 18:45, Kevin Meyer - KMZ wrote:
> Dan,
>
> I had another look at XmlMind, after failing dismally to get OpenOffice
> to do anything useful (following the advice at the URL I found earlier).
>
> And I think I can now understand the paradigm shift required.
> Certainly editting an existing document is pretty straight forward (right-
> click, Convert...).
>
> So if you created templates (partly as an attempt to keep up a
> common appearance) for all "levels" (e.g. top level pages, module
> pages, etc), then actual help documentation on how to write
> documentation ought to be simpler.
>
> Sorry about the earlier fuss!
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________
> Nakedobjects-contributors mailing list
> Nak...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nakedobjects-contributors
>

[NOF-Contrib] XmlMind as editor, 2nd opinion

[Kevin M. - K. <ke...@km...>]

Dan,

I had another look at XmlMind, after failing dismally to get OpenOffice 
to do anything useful (following the advice at the URL I found earlier).

And I think I can now understand the paradigm shift required. 
Certainly editting an existing document is pretty straight forward (right-
click, Convert...). 

So if you created templates (partly as an attempt to keep up a 
common appearance) for all "levels" (e.g. top level pages, module 
pages, etc), then actual help documentation on how to write 
documentation ought to be simpler.

Sorry about the earlier fuss!

Regards,
Kevin

Re: [NOF-Contrib] Fwd: [RESULT] [VOTE] Isis to enter the incubator

[James C. <ja...@ca...>]

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Robert Matthews
<rma...@na...> wrote:
>
> With so much to do, and so many new faces to get to know, it would be
> good to start off with some form of planning session where we can
> discuss and plan the work that we've got to do and get to understand how
> we should be working as part of Apache.
>

The first thing we need to do is get the infrastructure balls rolling
(SVN, JIRA, email lists, etc.).  We can discuss planning on-list at
that point.  Perhaps if someone is interested, we could set up an IRC
channel for Isis, too.  It seems a lot of projects are using that
these days.