#867 allow server to force positional audio settings

Next_Release
open
nobody
5
2014-09-23
2011-02-28
Wo3dy
No

I think it would be nice, that the server can Force the Positional audio settings for its users.

like: server forces minimal volume -> everyone will have same experience ingame. and the gameplay would increased and more fun.
it will also make the people use more tactics in games like bfbc2,...
specialy in big maps.

like in bfbc2= people run around and you hear them fade when they run further away. this will force users to use more strategy ingame as you can hear others when the minimum volume is on 0 after 100m on the map.

pro's=

More gameplay
more fun
more strategy required
more realistic gameplay
...

maybe make it able that any admin on the mumble server can turn it on and off.
so you dont need to restart the server everytime.

hope you like the idea.

cheers,

Discussion

  • Profpatsch

    Profpatsch - 2011-04-21

    Glad I did use the search function.

    I want to push that feature request. With forced settings you could even put two enemy teams in the same channel without having them spying at each other or get to know the location of the other team.

     
  • Kissaki

    Kissaki - 2012-12-01

    Although this may seem interesting from a organizers perspective,
    we/I believe in allowing the user to configure their client and settings.
    The server being able to overwrite client-side settings is very obscure and can add big confusion.
    Furthermore, implementing it would require entirely new logic.
    Currently, the server is light-weight and pretty much only passes packets on (and for that reason is very stable and efficient as well).
    I didn’t further elaborate on what changes would have to be made to allow forcing of settings, but especially on the client side, it would require more logic as well. A (partial) settings-stack which overwrites the users settings, but go back to them on disconnect / not save them.

    For the very limited and potentially very confusing use I guess this is not feasable at this point.
    Instead, if you have a community of people who want to play with such an experience anyway, these people will have to set up their clients that way.

     
  • Kissaki

    Kissaki - 2012-12-01
    • labels: Murmur --> Murmur, PA
    • summary: positional audio --> allow server to force positional audio settings
    • assigned_to: Thorvald Natvig --> nobody
     
  • Thorleif Jacobsen

    I actually dont think this is a dumb idea.

    What need to be added:

    Serversite: Checkbox for enabling forced positional audio, and length in meters.
    Client side: On join a channel with forced position audio, disable the maximum distance, set it to server selected distance and enable the positional audio (and disable the checkbox).

    Not so much of an hassle i believe Kissaki? Should be implemented, specially since people can cheat by adjusting it higher and just shut up then locate the enemy team... then turn it down again.

     
    • Kissaki

      Kissaki - 2014-02-26

      Currently, the server does not do any audio processing. This makes it a lot more efficient than it would be if it would tamper with audio (de-/re-encoding).

      What makes you believe it’s “not so much of a hassle”? I named a few issues which you did not address in your argument, from what I can see.

      If I understand you correctly you suggest something different then the original poster. The original post was about forcing people to use PA. What you seem to suggest is to force PA settings and PA coordinates onto clients. Or am I wrong here?

      It’s certainly not a “dumb idea”, but I don’t think anyone said that it would be.

       
      • Thorleif Jacobsen

        I dont mean that the server should re/de code anything. I mean that you can add an e.g. "ACL" that says for that channel "Force POS Audio" which will make the client which joins that channel tick off "Positional Audio" and deactivate it so the client cant turn it off unless leaving that channel.

        Also in the same ACL add a possibility to set the meters on that channel, so if i join the client reads the ACL and ticks off positional audio and 70 meters, sample in attachments :)

         
  • Zack Sawyer

    Zack Sawyer - 2014-02-27

    How about a very simple approach where the server doesn't do full processing but instead only decides whether to send the audio data to a client or not.
    The client can then decide to process it for PA or simply play it at full volume.

    The main point which is to prevent spying would be accomplished with only a server-side change that might even safe quite some bandwidth.

    This however still leaves the problem of obscurity in regards that the user might not understand why he cannot hear the other peer.

    But really I think this FR is just a little fragment of the actual need for mumble to properly integrate with games on the server-side. With the goal to minimize setup for every end-user by delegating it to a single server admin - namely when they setup their Murmur.

    Edit: Note that I strongly disagree about the use-case frequency. PA is used in multiplayer situations which frankly are quite often competitive. Restricting the PA facility to community events on a voluntary basis should imo only be a workaround.

     
    Last edit: Zack Sawyer 2014-02-27
  • Stefan H.

    Stefan H. - 2014-02-27

    Absolute range limiting would be possible. Everything else would pretty much only be security through obscurity (not that that doesn't help but it can't prevent abuse).

     
  • typhus_mrs

    typhus_mrs - 2014-09-23

    I really agree on adding that feature.

    I'm using positional audio for minecraft games, involving many inexperimented users. Getting them to install and run mumble can be hard sometimes, and the extra steps in client configuration are a hassle. Also, server side configuration would deter cheating by users who change their setting to hear the whole world, thus spying on other players (this is now too easy and tempting, especially because the default value is to hear everyone at 80%, so everyone is aware of this option when I tell them to change it).

    To circumvent that, I was recently envisioning to code a daemon that would cluster players based on their locations, and switch peoples on different channels, thus emulating a (very coarse) positional audio without requiring a client side setup. I hope you can see how desperate I am for this feature. ^_^

    My 2 cents :
    - Maybe the server-side positional options could be only "binary" (i.e transmit sound only if nearer than a given distance). This would be a great start : it prevents some forms of cheating(*). I also tend to think it would reduce bandwith usage, but I'm not sure about this one.
    - What could later be added, is : the client could still be able to change the voice volume reduction curve, but could also choose to "Use server recommended settings". Preferably this second option would be the default one.

    Many thanks to all the devs for the awesome piece of software they are crafting, and some more thanks for considering adding such a feature :)

    (*) Since Mumble trusts the client to give current location, I guess there are still ways of cheating (one can go and listen elsewhere, but never in 2 places at once). Maybe later the murmur server could communicate with game server directly to fetch positions. But that's a whole other feature ;)

     

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