I realize that when using MP3Gain to get all the tracks on an album to be at the same volume, I am to use the “Album Gain” function. But sometimes, when making compilation CDS (say a “Best Of “ CD by a particular artist), I run into the problem of some of the tracks not being in the 88.2 to 89.8 dB range in which most of my mp3s lie. Some of my tracks, after running them through MP3Gain, seem to be stuck at the 83 to 85 dB range; and, no matter what I do, I can’t get the values any higher without clipping them. But when I run these same tracks through MP3Gain using the “Album Gain” function (instead of the “Track Gain” function, which I’m supposed to use), I'm able to get all of the tracks at the same acceptable volume. I guess my question is this: Can I use “Album Gain” on a collection of tracks that aren’t all from the same album (instead of using "Track Gain") if it’s the only way to get the desired volume for all the tracks? And, most importantly, will it work?
Last edit: plutosun 2015-06-12
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No, albumgain won't help in this situation, except by pure dumb luck. Albumgain is designed to leave the relative volumes of all the tracks on one album the same as before processing. So if one track is 3 dB quieter than the rest it will remain 3 dB quieter after processing. Albumgain is probably best thought of as treating an entire album as one single track. And the volume of all tracks is adjusted in unison to make the whole album match the target volume. Individual tracks can be quite far from that target after processing, because in this case we don't care about individual track volume.
One of the things you can set mp3gain to do is to not adjust a volume if that adjustment would introduce clipping. This may be what is happening to you. If a track is 83 dB and does not clip, but would clip if adjusted to be 89 dB, then it would be left alone at the original volume. You could turn that safeguard off and live with the clipping, or you could choose a lower target volume that wouldn't cause clipping with any of the tracks in question.
Last edit: Clayton Macleod 2015-06-05
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I appreciate your attempt to help me with this. At the risk of pestering you, allow me to give you a specific example of the sort of problems I'm having, and perhaps you will be able to help me determine exactly what the best course of action would be for me to take—that is, stick with my original method of burning my CDs with Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, or simply settle for the best possible MP3Gain decibel ranges I can get when making compilation CDs, but with the “Normalize All Audio Files” box UNchecked.
I've collected 60 tracks of one of my favorite ambient artists, and I'd like to create a "Best Of" series of CDs—6 CDs with 10 long tracks on each.
When doing a Track Analysis of these files (with the "Don't Clip When Doing Track Gain" option selected) I get the following dB range: 77.8 to 92.3 (which is unacceptable), and I notice that 22 of these 60 tracks are clipped, as represented by the 22 red Ys I see next to them.
When I set 89.0 dB as my target volume, and apply Track Gain to these files, I now get a dB range of 83.8 to 89.7, which is still unacceptable because of the too-great-of-a- variance between volume levels (as much as 5.9 dB!), which will be quite noticeable when listening to the CDs.
In addition, I notice that, despite my selecting the "Don't Clip When Doing Track Gain" option, I still have 22 Ys in the column, which I just don’t understand!
In order for me to remove all of the Ys in the column I’d need to set my target volume all the way down to 84.6 dB, which simply way too low! If I increase my target volume to 86.0 dB (which, I suppose, I could accept), only 2 tracks remain clipped (again, even though I’ve checked the “Do Not Clip” option!), which I guess would be all right. But, no matter which way I go here, I notice that my dB range for these 60 files is still 83.8 to 89.7, which, again, is unacceptable because of the up-to 5.9 dB volume gap.
If I run all these tracks through MP3Gain’s “Album Gain,” however, I get a nice uniform 87.6 dB for all the mp3s—which would be acceptable to me accept for the fact that in one of your posts you stated that Album Gain simply won’t work for me when using tracks that are from more than one album.
Before discovering MP3Gain, I simply burned all my compilation CDs with Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked. But when I listened to my CDs I still noticed sometimes major changes in volume throughout, which left me scratching my head. What could I be doing wrong?
When I found MP3Gain I theorized that the reason for this variance was the wide dB range of my entire audio collection. So I concluded that I first needed to bring, via MP3Gain, all of the mp3s in my collection to the same decibel level BEFORE burning CDs with the “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked. My reasoning was simple: If all of my mp3s were set at the same decibel level BEFORE I burned CDs with the “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, then there should no longer be any variances in volume level between each song.
But now that I see that checking this box before burning will actually UNDO all of my gain changes, I realize that I’d only be wasting my time!
Taking stock of all that I have posted here, do you have any suggestion as to which method I should use in my case: stick with my original method of burning my CDs with Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, or simply settle for the best possible MP3Gain decibel ranges I can get when making compilation CDs, but with “Normalize All Audio Files” box UNchecked.
I can’t possibly be the ONLY person who’s ever had this sort of problem. Is there something I’m just not getting here? Or am I simply being a knitpicker—someone who’s too lazy to keep adjusting the volume on his CDs—no matter what method he uses to burn them?
To quote Charlton Heston in the original PLANET OF THE APES: “This is a MADHOUSE!”
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Nero's normalize function is useless. Forget it even exists. You could have a track that averages 40 dB the whole time, and has one glitch, one lone sample that is 100%, and that normalize function would leave the track alone at the original 40 dB because it is already at maximum volume because of that one sample at 100% of full scale. That function doesn't have anything to do with how the audio actually sounds to a human, or have any relation to average volume. It truly is useless for our goals here. All it does is find the highest peak and turn the volume up so that highest peak is 100%. That doesn't help us here.
Albumgain is not going to help you, either. Albumgain treats every single track as a unit. When you use it, it doesn't matter if you are analyzing 10 tracks or a million. It treats the whole group as one virtual track. And it analyzes the volume for that one virtual track. The volume differences between your actual tracks are ignored. Why? Because your actual tracks are ignored as singular entities. They are just thrown into the soup with every other track, and are only counted as a part of the one whole. This is why you see a nice, uniform volume when you use albumgain. Because the volume number you are given is a single global value for the single global/virtual track. You will still have some actual tracks many dB apart from each other afterwards, because it is adjusting the volume for every actual track by the same amount, that global amount. Their relative values do not change. When one track is 6 dB louder than a second track, after processing through albumgain the one track is still 6 dB louder than the second track. They might both be 3 dB louder than before, but their relative 6 dB difference is still exactly the same as it was before. Albumgain is useful, but not here, not for this.
The ideal way to do what you want to do is to have access to the original CD data, before anything has been made into mp3 files. Because then you can process that raw data to better achieve your goal. Those tracks that are slightly quiet and will clip if pushed to the standard 89 dB can have slight dynamic compression applied to just those portions that would clip, leaving the rest of the dynamics alone. Then you can safely reach your 89 dB goal. And foobar2000's smart limiter is perfect for this job. I've used it on many "problematic" albums to do just that, reach 89 dB trackgain safely. But it does require that you have the original CD data available. Either that, or you have to not care about decoding mp3s, performing this processing, and then reencoding them to mp3 again and accepting another step of lossy compression.
If you simply must use mp3 source files for this operation then you only really have two choices. Live with the clipping, which, frankly, you may not even hear anyway. Or choose a target volume that is much lower, to avoid clipping. But in either case your only choice is to use trackgain. You are trying to match different tracks, and trackgain is the one that will do that. Trackgain matches individual tracks against individual tracks. Albumgain doesn't match tracks. It matches album against album. This leaves tracks not matching each other, purposely. And the reason for that is so that the track-to-track volumes in that one album remain unchanged.
I would say what you should do is just go with trackgain and the standard 89 dB and then complete your project and listen to it. Make copies of your files to work on with your project, and then you'll have unchanged originals if you need/want them later. Then, ignore the fact that it will contain clipping. Analyze and process your files, and complete the project. Once done, see if you actually hear any clipping and are bothered by it. If you are not, great. Job done. If you are, though, worry about it then. But you may not even get to that stage.
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Once again, all I can say is “thank you” for being kind enough to take the time to help me (a total stranger) out with all this. I had to plow through many similar forums before finally finding you—-the first person who has actually been able to post any meaningful, intelligent solutions to my plight. Not that I haven’t been grateful for all the other kind souls who’ve tried to help me, but who, frankly, didn’t really know what they were talking about (which I now see in retrospect).
Your pronouncement that Nero’s normalize function is “useless” is sound (no pun intended!), and something I hadn’t even considered—-even though the evidence was clearly before me. And now, thanks to you, I have a much better understanding of MP3Gain’s Album Gain function, and realize that the “nice, uniform volume” I thought I was achieving with all my non-album tracks was just an illusion based on ignorance. It makes sense that Album Gain simply won’t work on non-album tracks, no matter what the numbers show.
Unfortunately, I don’t have access to any original CD data, as 95% of my entire mp3 collection comes from free downloading off the web. (Ooops! Did I just admit to a crime?). So it looks like my using foobar2000 isn’t an option for me.
In your most recent post, you state that if I simply must use mp3 source files for this operation (which I must!), then I really only have two choices: live with the clipping, or choose a target volume that is much lower, to avoid clipping. But, with all due respect, it would appear as though neither choice is going to be satisfactory—-and here’s why (once again using the same example I cited in my previous post):
I've collected 60 tracks of one of my favorite ambient artists, and I'd like to create a "Best Of" series of CDs—6 CDs with 10 long tracks on each. When doing a Track Analysis of these files (as they were when I originally downloaded them off the web), I got a dB range of 77.8 to 92.3, and I noticed that 22 of these 60 tracks were clipped. When I set 89.0 dB as my target volume, select the "Don't Clip When Doing Track Gain" option, and apply Track Gain to these files, I now get a dB range of 83.8 to 89.7—and the 22 tracks are still clipped. I suppose I can accept the clipping, but this new dB range is still unacceptable because of the too-great-of-a-variance between volume levels (as much as 5.9 dB!), which will be quite noticeable when listening to the CDs.
In order for me to remove the clipping from all 22 of these tracks I’d need to set my target volume all the way down to 84.6 dB, which is simply way too low! But even if I did this, there’s still going to be a huge volume variance between many of the tracks. So it would appear I’m damned no matter which of the two choices I make! Is this the price ANYONE pays who doesn’t use the original CD data as their source? Are they always going to be adjusting the volume no mater what they do? Is most of the data in your personal audio collection from CDs, meaning that you don’t ever run into this problem?
At this point, I suppose I’m going to choose to do the following:
I’m going to accept the fact that Nero’s “normalize,” function is useless, so it doesn’t exist for me. I’m going to set my dB target value at 89.0 and accept the fact that the dB range for my 60 tunes is actually going to be 83.8 to 89.7, with as much as a 5.9 variance in volume between some of these tunes—-which means that I’m going to be adjusting the volume quite a few times while listening to my CDs. Since I don’t want to set my dB target value all the way down to 84.6, to remove clipping from all 22 of the clipped tracks, I’m going to accept the fact that 22 of these tunes are going to be clipped.
If this is indeed my choice, are you telling me that this is the best I’m going to be able to achieve—-if I insist on using mp3 source files like most everyone else I know does?
As far as MP3Gain’s “Don't Clip When Doing Track Gain" option is concerned: If I select this option when doing Track Gain, will it serve only to bring these 22 tracks down to 84.6 dB, which I don’t want? (Meaning, do I never choose this option if I’m going to accept clipping?)
It would seem to me that all the CDs I’ve already burned with Nero’s “normalize” box checked, and before I used MP3Gain to convert all my files using an 89.0 dB setting, are pretty much useless, and I only wasted my time. Now I have my entire audio collection at a more decent dB range, but it’s far from perfect—-and I’m STILL going to have to adjust the volume all the time. The next project I’m going to burn is “The Best Of The Alan Parsons Project.” The only problem is that there’s so much variance between the volume levels that there’s really no point in burning the CDs, because I’ll constantly be adjusting the volume, therefore ruining my listening experience. Are you saying that, because all these separate tracks didn’t come off of my own personal CDs, then the volume problem is simply something I’m going to accept—-no matter how many “Best Of” CDs I burn? Is this the position in which I find myself?
As a final question (I hope!): If you recall the comedy skits I mentioned in a previous post, do you know of any program that will help me reduce the OVERALL volume of each individual skit—-even though some of these skits have cut-and-pasted portions within them (from other skits) with different volume levels? The idea is to get each of these skits to have the same overall volume, and then I have to find a way to get ALL of the volume-corrected skits at or near the same dB when I burn them to CD. I have the following software programs at my disposal, if you think any of these might help me do this: Cool Edit Pro, iZotope RX 2 Advanced, and WavePad Sound Editor.
I appreciate your patience with me; and, it goes without saying that, if you’ve reached your limit with my incessant questioning, I’ll completely understand. God knows that if I could find all these answers myself online, I wouldn’t be burning up all the forums like this. I think I'm pretty close to finally "getting" it, and, who knows, someday, may even be able to help a similar poor sap out of the same nightmare!
It’s funny if it all comes down to the fact that, because I’m too cheap (broke?) to go out and buy CDs, I’m never going to be able to listen to my homemade CDs without adjusting the volume. (Beggars can't be choosers?) But, then again, many of the tunes in my collection are rare and hard-to-find tracks that can’t even be found on any CDs available for purchase. Hell, if it weren’t for YouTube, I wouldn’t have half the obscure songs in my collection! Such is the nature of paradoxes!
Looking forward to your next response—-should you choose to post another.
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Apparently I'm not thinking clearly late at night. Heh. Your end goal here is to have CDs burnt to listen to. This makes things dead simple. Just use foobar2000. It burns CDs. It has replaygain functionality. And it has the smart limiter I mentioned to deal with the clipping. I was replying earlier from the standpoint of actually listening to the mp3s directly. The fact that you're burning CDs makes this as simple as it gets, because we no longer care about the problems I was talking about, as they don't exist in that scenario. You're going to CD audio, so you can process as much as you like.
So, load up your tracks for your first CD in foobar2000.
Select all tracks. Right-click playlist. ReplayGain menu. Scan per-file trackgain.
Right-click the playlist, go to the Convert menu, Write audio CD.
Checkmark ReplayGain Processing, and go into its menu via the "..." button.
Source mode: track
Processing: apply gain
Preamp: Can fiddle if you like, but leaving them at 0.0 dB means the 89 dB target will be used. Click OK.
Checkmark DSP Processing, and go into its menu.
In the list of Available DSPs on the right you will see Advanced Limiter. Highlight that, and click the left arrow button to add it to the list of Active DSPs on the left. It has no parameters to configure, so that's all you need to do with that limiter. Click OK.
Checkmark Dither.
If you like, checkmark Burn gaplessly. This dertermines whether or not you have 2-second gaps between each track on the CD.
Click OK to burn.
This will work great for your Alan Parsons Project project, too. ;)
All the CD tracks you get from this procedure will be at the same 89 dB average volume, and none of them will contain any clipping. The Advanced Limiter that foobar2000 has actually does a pretty nice job of limiting/compressing only the small portions that it needs to in order to avoid clipping, and I doubt you'll have any issues with the job it performs.
The nice thing about this method is you can also preview the results simply by listening beforehand in foobar2000. Just make sure in the Preferences section for playback that you have the same ReplayGain settings as mentioned above, and also have the Advanced Limiter in the DSP section. Then what you listen to in foobar2000 will be the same as the result that you would get from the CD burning procedure.
As for your comedy problem, you might be able to get away with the same procedure as outlined above, but with one addition. In the DSP section you can try removing the Advanced Limiter, and substituting the Hard -6 dB limiter. And preview the results and see how it sounds. It might be satisfactory. If not, it would be quite labour-intensive to decode all those comedy tracks and isolate all the different sections to apply volume changes to them individually. It would work, but depending on the amount of material you're talking about it could take a long time to accomplish. The Hard -6 dB limiter might save you the trouble.
Report back with your experience!
Last edit: Clayton Macleod 2015-06-07
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Sorry, Clayton, that you didn’t realize that my end goal was to actually burn my mp3s onto CDs. I’m glad to hear you say that this now makes things “dead simple,” because I have to admit that I was seriously thinking that if it was going to be this hard to get a nice, uniform 89.0 dB level (or at least a satisfactory range) for my ENTIRE audio collection—-many of which were (are) going to be burned onto CDs—-then perhaps burning mp3-source CDs just wasn’t worth it!
You state that the fact that I’m burning CDs makes this as simple as it gets, because we no longer care about the problems you were talking about, as they don't exist in this scenario. Needless to say, I am greatly relieved to hear this. But before I (we) proceed, please allow me to re-iterate some points, just to make sure we’re on the same page.
From my previous posts you’re aware that I recently applied MP3Gain’s Track Gain to all of my mp3-source audio files—about 10,000 songs. Although I set my target value at 89.0, what I actually got (have) is a range of 88.2 to 89.8 dB—-which is plus or minus .8 dB the 89.0 target value. Although I was (am) willing to accept the 88.2 to 89.8 dB range (because I simply HAVE to, right?), I must admit that I was (am) concerned that, say, if three songs in a row on a burned CD were at 89.8 dB (the highest value in my range) and the next song that came on was at 88.2 dB (the lowest value in my range), I would hear a noticeable change in volume because of a sudden drop of 1.6 dB. But my concern goes even deeper, because, even though the bulk of my audio collection lies between the aforementioned range, there are still quite a few that lie well below the lowest value of 88.2 dB—-some as low as 84 and 85 dB, which would be even MORE noticeable on a burned CD. And I don’t know HOW to get these “stragglers” into my preferred range. I would imagine that if there was way to do this, this you would told me about it by now.
Nevertheless, and, if I’m understanding you correctly (and I really hope that I am!), you’re telling me that all of these concerns are irrelevant now because I no longer need to use MP3Gain, nor Nero to burn my CDs, because Foobar 2000 will not only convert ALL of my mp3s to 89.0 (or, at the very least, the aforementioned range), but it will do an even better job of burning CDs that my Nero 2015 program that I just got. And I don’t even have to worry that many of my post-MP3Gained sound files remained clipped, because Foobar 200 will fix that for me before burning.
Is that it? Do I have it right? Please tell me I have it right!
One thing I’m a little concerned about is whether Foobar 2000 will give me the capability of writing CD text, as Nero does, because I really like the idea of inputting the exact text for each tune that is going to appear on my car and home CD players. Will I be able to do with this with Foobar 2000?
I have your Foobar instructions, and I also plan on reading the entire Foobar 2000 online manual I found at the following website:
Upon hearing from you again (hopefully with your response to my above-mentioned concerns) I will indeed attempt to burn a CD with Foobar 2000 and see how consistent the volume sounds on each of the tracks.
A question about setting up Foobar to whatever functions you think I will need:
I have downloaded the program, but during the installation process a box appears that states: “Quick Appearance Setup,” and I’m given nine setup options:
Album List + Properties
Album List + Properties (tabbed)
Album List + Properties (tabbed) + Visualizations
Album List + Properties + Visualizations
Album List + Visualization
Album List + Visualization (alternate)
Simple Playlist + Tabs
Slim View + Tabs
Visualization + Cover Art + Tabs
Could you please tell me which option will suit my particular needs, and any other settings in the program I may need to tweak upon installation?
Thanks again for taking me under your wing like this. Even though the above-mentioned website states that Foobar can be a little difficult to master, I feel you’re giving some pretty advanced tools to not only help me find my way out of my current little nightmare, but help me to assist others who may one day need MY help!
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The 88.2-89.8 dB deviation is something you only have to live with while actually playing back mp3s. I don't think you're actually likely to notice the small amount of deviation anyway, but it is avoided when going to CDs in the method I lined out anyway. Providing, of course, you do let foobar2000 analyze trackgain again. Since you are decoding it is capable of matching things up right to 89.0 dB exactly.
edit - It analyzes insanely fast compared to mp3gain, so don't let re-analyzation time deter you from re-analyzing for this job. The time involved for that step will be relatively small. The algorithm is both faster, and multi-threaded, so just do it. ;)
As for your stragglers, when using this method they will also be taken care of, just as a matter of course. Foobar2000's re-analyzation of the replaygain values will give it what it needs to know to both get it to the desired average of 89.0 dB and also have the clipping taken care of by the advanced limiter. Your stragglers will be brought into line with the least amount of fudging-for-clipping possible. I believe you will be happy with your CDs in the end. You won't have to do anything extra for them, as the method will already be taking that into account. Remember, your stragglers are only 84 dB or whatever because you were avoiding clipping. But this method is going to be taking care of that situation anyway. Just follow those steps and you'll be golden, stragglers or not.
Now, as for CD Text, I could be mistaken but I don't think foobar2000's supplied CD burning plugin writes it for you. If that is the case, and you really want CD Text, you may have to add some steps in the process to accomplish that. You would then use foobar2000 to output to .wav files instead, with the Convert To menu from the playlist view, and then you could go back to burning with Nero to get CD Text in there. It would mean a little more fiddling work on your part, but you'd get the titles you're after onto the CDs in the end.
As for the "Quick Appearance Setup" selections, well, I think that's more or less just preference. I'd been using that program for so long that I don't think I've ever seen that stuff, as I've just been doing upgrade installs over older versions for quite some time now. I would say I'm just using the Simple Playlist + Tabs view, in that case. But I'm sure you can just switch between them as you desire, too. In any case, that would be the simplest view, and since you're only using it to get some work done that may be most suitable.
Last edit: Clayton Macleod 2015-06-10
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Thanks again! I will study the online manual, plus incorporate your instructions, and see what I can come up with. I was under the impression that I needed to ditch Nero as my CD burner, and use foobar exclusively. But I think you're saying that, if I want to enable CD Text, I may indeed have to stick with Nero. What I'm gathering here is that foobar is a much more advanced version of MP3Gain that can also actually burn CDs after it perfectly adjusts the volumes of the tracks that are to be be burned. Is this right?
Side note: I noticed in one of your posts that, when spelling the word "labor," you used the British spelling: "labour." So I would imagine you're in England or Ireland or thereabouts? I live just outside of Orlando, FL.
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Yes, I think you might still have to use Nero for the burning stage to get CD Text. Obviously with its own normalization turned off so it doesn't screw with foobar2000's work. hehe. ;)
No, actually I'm up in Canada, from a very small place called Parksville in British Columbia. Off the coast of Vancouver, over on Vancouver Island.
Parksville looks like a really nice little beach town!
Without having yet read the foobar manual, nor applying your instructions to a sample burn, is it my understanding that I am to re-run all of my mp3-source tracks through foobar (even though I've already processed all of them through MP3Gain), and, upon doing so, it will do away with my 88.2 to 89.8 dB range (and the stranglers), and all the clipping, and will allow me to burn all of my CDs (via foobar of Nero) with a consistent 89.0 dB for all 10,000 mp3s in my collection?
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Yup, pretty quiet here through most of the year, and then a tourist draw in the summertime. Grew up here. Great place to live, but leaning towards difficult to make a living here. Hehe. I haven't left, so it must be ok overall. Hahaha
Yes, let foobar2000 analyze them again. And everything will be matched up very closely after that. That won't take anywhere near as long as you'd think. It is pretty fast.
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I seem to be having a little difficulty following through with your instructions. Since we've determined that I'm not actually going to be using foobar to burn my CDs (choosing instead to remain with Nero, if only for the CD Text option), could you modify your original instructions (which I've included below), so that they will allow me to use them merely as a more advanced version of MP3Gain? What I need is to be able to once again use 89.0 dB as my target setting and get all of my mp3-source tracks to be as close to this number as possible--and without any clipping, if at all possible. I'm assuming that once I learn how to use foobar correctly, I'll be able to actually SEE that my tracks are all now at 89.0 dB and that there is no clipping?
Here are your original instructions for modifying and burning files with foobar, which you can cut, paste, and modify in your next post--if, that is, you are willing to continue to assist me!
Select all tracks. Right-click playlist. ReplayGain menu. Scan per-file trackgain.
Right-click the playlist, go to the Convert menu, Write audio CD.
Checkmark ReplayGain Processing, and go into its menu via the "..." button.
Source mode: track
Processing: apply gain
Preamp: Can fiddle if you like, but leaving them at 0.0 dB means the 89 dB target will be used. Click OK.
Checkmark DSP Processing, and go into its menu.
In the list of Available DSPs on the right you will see Advanced Limiter. Highlight that, and click the left arrow button to add it to the list of Active DSPs on the left. It has no parameters to configure, so that's all you need to do with that limiter. Click OK.
Checkmark Dither.
If you like, checkmark Burn gaplessly. This dertermines whether or not you have 2-second gaps between each track on the CD.
Click OK to burn.
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You want to convert to wav files in foobar2000 so you get all of the processing it can do for you, but then have something you can burn in Nero to get the CD Text you are after.
Load up the first CD's tracks in the playlist. Select tracks in playlist. Right-click playlist. ReplayGain menu. Scan per-file trackgain. You may have to tell it that you want to rescan even though they already have ReplayGain data. When that's done, save the new data.
Then, one time, with the first CD's tracks still selected in the playlist, we need to double-check that the wav writer is set for the correct parameters for CD audio. I think it is by default, but I'm not entirely sure with my own configuration having been customized over the years. So, let's check first. Right-click the playlist again, go to the Convert menu, and go to the "..." selection to get into that settings area. Double-click the "wav" selection on the left-hand side to load it, and then go into each of the sections below and make sure they are set like this:
Output format
Make sure WAV is selected.
Output bit depth is 16-bit.
Dither is always.
Then click back.
Destination
Output path: you might want set to source track folder. You may want to specify a different location. Up to you.
Output style and file name formatting: I have it set to this, but you can customize that if you like, too. %artist% - %tracknumber% - %title%
Then click back.
Processing
Additional decoding: no checkmark.
ReplayGain: source mode 'track', processing 'apply gain', preamp 0.0
DSP: Select 'Advanced Limiter' on the right in available DSPs, and click the left arrow to add it to the left under Active DSPs.
Then click back.
Other: No checkmarks in any of the boxes.
Then click back.
Then finally you can click Convert. This will write out the wav files you need for the first CD. For all subsequent CDs you can load the new tracks up in the playlist and do the replaygain scan, and then from the Convert menu you can simply select 'wav' for all subsequent playlists. The settings you checked the first time will be saved in the 'wav' menu selection, so you don't need to check them every time.
Once you have a set of wav files for the first CD you can just load them up in Nero to burn as an audio CD, and adjust the CD text entries to your liking. Make sure the normalize feature in Nero is not selected anymore, of course. ;)
Last edit: Clayton Macleod 2015-06-15
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It make take me a while to process and apply all that you've shown me, and before I actually burn my first CD with the new values; but, when I do, I'll let you know how it worked out. You've been very kind to do this for me, and I greatly appreciate it!
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One thing you might consider if you have the original CDs to play with as your source is using foobar2000 to do this job. It has replaygain support. (It also happens to be much, much faster.) But it also had a smart limiter that you could employ to give you your desired volume changes, while using a smart compressor/limiter to stop the clipping from happening. This involves working with the raw wav data though, so it is not best-suites to working with lossy compression sources like MP3, if decoding and reencoding the audio matters to you, since that involves another lossy compression step on top of the original one.
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Haven't had a chance, until now, to actually begin the process of using Foobar2000 to convert all my mp3s so I can begin the process of burning them all to various CDs. To refresh your memory: I was tired of using Nero's "normalize" function when burning CDs, because I still found myself constantly having to adjust the volume when listening to them. So I decided to convert the 10,000 songs in my collection, via MP3Gain, using 89.0 as my target dB range. I was disappointed to see that the best MP3Gain could do was give me an 88.2 to 89.8 dB RANGE instead, which was/is still not good enough because when, say for example, I listen to a song at 88.2 and then listen to the following song at 89.8, the 1.6 dB variance is quite noticeable--and I'll STILL be adjusting the volume when listening to CDs!
My understanding, from re-reading all your previous response-posts, is that Foobar 2000 can not only convert all 10,000 mp3s in my collection to EXACTLY 89.0 dB, but it can also remove the clipping from the 25 "stragglers" I have--that will only become "unclipped" (via MP3Gain) if I convert them below the lowest dB level in my range, which would be 88.2 and, therefore, unacceptable. Am I correct in my understanding?
I also gathered from your posts that Foobar2000 is more or less a far more advanced version of MP3Gain, meaning the latter program should now be considered obsolete for my purposes. Am I correct?
I've gathered from your posts, as well, that, although I can actually use Foobar2000 to burn my CDs, instead of using Nero, I would want to continue using the latter software because I want my CDs to be able to read text, which you've told me you don't think Foobar can do. Am I correct about this?
If I'm correct about all these things, would you mind terribly re-sending me simple instructions on how to go about using Foobar2000 simply to convert and remove clipping from all my mp3s, so that once I've done this, I can start using Nero to burn them to CDs?
As always, I appreciate all you have done to educate me on this matter.
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Please tell me how to use properly Mp3Gain, i have House,Deep house,Electro,Edm ...tracks,and i want them to be as close as possible the same volume,but without any loss of quality.Which options in Mp3Gain should i use ?
all my tracks are Mp3 320 kbps
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I realize that when using MP3Gain to get all the tracks on an album to be at the same volume, I am to use the “Album Gain” function. But sometimes, when making compilation CDS (say a “Best Of “ CD by a particular artist), I run into the problem of some of the tracks not being in the 88.2 to 89.8 dB range in which most of my mp3s lie. Some of my tracks, after running them through MP3Gain, seem to be stuck at the 83 to 85 dB range; and, no matter what I do, I can’t get the values any higher without clipping them. But when I run these same tracks through MP3Gain using the “Album Gain” function (instead of the “Track Gain” function, which I’m supposed to use), I'm able to get all of the tracks at the same acceptable volume. I guess my question is this: Can I use “Album Gain” on a collection of tracks that aren’t all from the same album (instead of using "Track Gain") if it’s the only way to get the desired volume for all the tracks? And, most importantly, will it work?
Last edit: plutosun 2015-06-12
No, albumgain won't help in this situation, except by pure dumb luck. Albumgain is designed to leave the relative volumes of all the tracks on one album the same as before processing. So if one track is 3 dB quieter than the rest it will remain 3 dB quieter after processing. Albumgain is probably best thought of as treating an entire album as one single track. And the volume of all tracks is adjusted in unison to make the whole album match the target volume. Individual tracks can be quite far from that target after processing, because in this case we don't care about individual track volume.
One of the things you can set mp3gain to do is to not adjust a volume if that adjustment would introduce clipping. This may be what is happening to you. If a track is 83 dB and does not clip, but would clip if adjusted to be 89 dB, then it would be left alone at the original volume. You could turn that safeguard off and live with the clipping, or you could choose a lower target volume that wouldn't cause clipping with any of the tracks in question.
Last edit: Clayton Macleod 2015-06-05
I appreciate your attempt to help me with this. At the risk of pestering you, allow me to give you a specific example of the sort of problems I'm having, and perhaps you will be able to help me determine exactly what the best course of action would be for me to take—that is, stick with my original method of burning my CDs with Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, or simply settle for the best possible MP3Gain decibel ranges I can get when making compilation CDs, but with the “Normalize All Audio Files” box UNchecked.
I've collected 60 tracks of one of my favorite ambient artists, and I'd like to create a "Best Of" series of CDs—6 CDs with 10 long tracks on each.
When doing a Track Analysis of these files (with the "Don't Clip When Doing Track Gain" option selected) I get the following dB range: 77.8 to 92.3 (which is unacceptable), and I notice that 22 of these 60 tracks are clipped, as represented by the 22 red Ys I see next to them.
When I set 89.0 dB as my target volume, and apply Track Gain to these files, I now get a dB range of 83.8 to 89.7, which is still unacceptable because of the too-great-of-a- variance between volume levels (as much as 5.9 dB!), which will be quite noticeable when listening to the CDs.
In addition, I notice that, despite my selecting the "Don't Clip When Doing Track Gain" option, I still have 22 Ys in the column, which I just don’t understand!
In order for me to remove all of the Ys in the column I’d need to set my target volume all the way down to 84.6 dB, which simply way too low! If I increase my target volume to 86.0 dB (which, I suppose, I could accept), only 2 tracks remain clipped (again, even though I’ve checked the “Do Not Clip” option!), which I guess would be all right. But, no matter which way I go here, I notice that my dB range for these 60 files is still 83.8 to 89.7, which, again, is unacceptable because of the up-to 5.9 dB volume gap.
If I run all these tracks through MP3Gain’s “Album Gain,” however, I get a nice uniform 87.6 dB for all the mp3s—which would be acceptable to me accept for the fact that in one of your posts you stated that Album Gain simply won’t work for me when using tracks that are from more than one album.
Before discovering MP3Gain, I simply burned all my compilation CDs with Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked. But when I listened to my CDs I still noticed sometimes major changes in volume throughout, which left me scratching my head. What could I be doing wrong?
When I found MP3Gain I theorized that the reason for this variance was the wide dB range of my entire audio collection. So I concluded that I first needed to bring, via MP3Gain, all of the mp3s in my collection to the same decibel level BEFORE burning CDs with the “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked. My reasoning was simple: If all of my mp3s were set at the same decibel level BEFORE I burned CDs with the “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, then there should no longer be any variances in volume level between each song.
But now that I see that checking this box before burning will actually UNDO all of my gain changes, I realize that I’d only be wasting my time!
Taking stock of all that I have posted here, do you have any suggestion as to which method I should use in my case: stick with my original method of burning my CDs with Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, or simply settle for the best possible MP3Gain decibel ranges I can get when making compilation CDs, but with “Normalize All Audio Files” box UNchecked.
I can’t possibly be the ONLY person who’s ever had this sort of problem. Is there something I’m just not getting here? Or am I simply being a knitpicker—someone who’s too lazy to keep adjusting the volume on his CDs—no matter what method he uses to burn them?
To quote Charlton Heston in the original PLANET OF THE APES: “This is a MADHOUSE!”
Nero's normalize function is useless. Forget it even exists. You could have a track that averages 40 dB the whole time, and has one glitch, one lone sample that is 100%, and that normalize function would leave the track alone at the original 40 dB because it is already at maximum volume because of that one sample at 100% of full scale. That function doesn't have anything to do with how the audio actually sounds to a human, or have any relation to average volume. It truly is useless for our goals here. All it does is find the highest peak and turn the volume up so that highest peak is 100%. That doesn't help us here.
Albumgain is not going to help you, either. Albumgain treats every single track as a unit. When you use it, it doesn't matter if you are analyzing 10 tracks or a million. It treats the whole group as one virtual track. And it analyzes the volume for that one virtual track. The volume differences between your actual tracks are ignored. Why? Because your actual tracks are ignored as singular entities. They are just thrown into the soup with every other track, and are only counted as a part of the one whole. This is why you see a nice, uniform volume when you use albumgain. Because the volume number you are given is a single global value for the single global/virtual track. You will still have some actual tracks many dB apart from each other afterwards, because it is adjusting the volume for every actual track by the same amount, that global amount. Their relative values do not change. When one track is 6 dB louder than a second track, after processing through albumgain the one track is still 6 dB louder than the second track. They might both be 3 dB louder than before, but their relative 6 dB difference is still exactly the same as it was before. Albumgain is useful, but not here, not for this.
The ideal way to do what you want to do is to have access to the original CD data, before anything has been made into mp3 files. Because then you can process that raw data to better achieve your goal. Those tracks that are slightly quiet and will clip if pushed to the standard 89 dB can have slight dynamic compression applied to just those portions that would clip, leaving the rest of the dynamics alone. Then you can safely reach your 89 dB goal. And foobar2000's smart limiter is perfect for this job. I've used it on many "problematic" albums to do just that, reach 89 dB trackgain safely. But it does require that you have the original CD data available. Either that, or you have to not care about decoding mp3s, performing this processing, and then reencoding them to mp3 again and accepting another step of lossy compression.
If you simply must use mp3 source files for this operation then you only really have two choices. Live with the clipping, which, frankly, you may not even hear anyway. Or choose a target volume that is much lower, to avoid clipping. But in either case your only choice is to use trackgain. You are trying to match different tracks, and trackgain is the one that will do that. Trackgain matches individual tracks against individual tracks. Albumgain doesn't match tracks. It matches album against album. This leaves tracks not matching each other, purposely. And the reason for that is so that the track-to-track volumes in that one album remain unchanged.
I would say what you should do is just go with trackgain and the standard 89 dB and then complete your project and listen to it. Make copies of your files to work on with your project, and then you'll have unchanged originals if you need/want them later. Then, ignore the fact that it will contain clipping. Analyze and process your files, and complete the project. Once done, see if you actually hear any clipping and are bothered by it. If you are not, great. Job done. If you are, though, worry about it then. But you may not even get to that stage.
Once again, all I can say is “thank you” for being kind enough to take the time to help me (a total stranger) out with all this. I had to plow through many similar forums before finally finding you—-the first person who has actually been able to post any meaningful, intelligent solutions to my plight. Not that I haven’t been grateful for all the other kind souls who’ve tried to help me, but who, frankly, didn’t really know what they were talking about (which I now see in retrospect).
Your pronouncement that Nero’s normalize function is “useless” is sound (no pun intended!), and something I hadn’t even considered—-even though the evidence was clearly before me. And now, thanks to you, I have a much better understanding of MP3Gain’s Album Gain function, and realize that the “nice, uniform volume” I thought I was achieving with all my non-album tracks was just an illusion based on ignorance. It makes sense that Album Gain simply won’t work on non-album tracks, no matter what the numbers show.
Unfortunately, I don’t have access to any original CD data, as 95% of my entire mp3 collection comes from free downloading off the web. (Ooops! Did I just admit to a crime?). So it looks like my using foobar2000 isn’t an option for me.
In your most recent post, you state that if I simply must use mp3 source files for this operation (which I must!), then I really only have two choices: live with the clipping, or choose a target volume that is much lower, to avoid clipping. But, with all due respect, it would appear as though neither choice is going to be satisfactory—-and here’s why (once again using the same example I cited in my previous post):
I've collected 60 tracks of one of my favorite ambient artists, and I'd like to create a "Best Of" series of CDs—6 CDs with 10 long tracks on each. When doing a Track Analysis of these files (as they were when I originally downloaded them off the web), I got a dB range of 77.8 to 92.3, and I noticed that 22 of these 60 tracks were clipped. When I set 89.0 dB as my target volume, select the "Don't Clip When Doing Track Gain" option, and apply Track Gain to these files, I now get a dB range of 83.8 to 89.7—and the 22 tracks are still clipped. I suppose I can accept the clipping, but this new dB range is still unacceptable because of the too-great-of-a-variance between volume levels (as much as 5.9 dB!), which will be quite noticeable when listening to the CDs.
In order for me to remove the clipping from all 22 of these tracks I’d need to set my target volume all the way down to 84.6 dB, which is simply way too low! But even if I did this, there’s still going to be a huge volume variance between many of the tracks. So it would appear I’m damned no matter which of the two choices I make! Is this the price ANYONE pays who doesn’t use the original CD data as their source? Are they always going to be adjusting the volume no mater what they do? Is most of the data in your personal audio collection from CDs, meaning that you don’t ever run into this problem?
At this point, I suppose I’m going to choose to do the following:
I’m going to accept the fact that Nero’s “normalize,” function is useless, so it doesn’t exist for me. I’m going to set my dB target value at 89.0 and accept the fact that the dB range for my 60 tunes is actually going to be 83.8 to 89.7, with as much as a 5.9 variance in volume between some of these tunes—-which means that I’m going to be adjusting the volume quite a few times while listening to my CDs. Since I don’t want to set my dB target value all the way down to 84.6, to remove clipping from all 22 of the clipped tracks, I’m going to accept the fact that 22 of these tunes are going to be clipped.
If this is indeed my choice, are you telling me that this is the best I’m going to be able to achieve—-if I insist on using mp3 source files like most everyone else I know does?
As far as MP3Gain’s “Don't Clip When Doing Track Gain" option is concerned: If I select this option when doing Track Gain, will it serve only to bring these 22 tracks down to 84.6 dB, which I don’t want? (Meaning, do I never choose this option if I’m going to accept clipping?)
It would seem to me that all the CDs I’ve already burned with Nero’s “normalize” box checked, and before I used MP3Gain to convert all my files using an 89.0 dB setting, are pretty much useless, and I only wasted my time. Now I have my entire audio collection at a more decent dB range, but it’s far from perfect—-and I’m STILL going to have to adjust the volume all the time. The next project I’m going to burn is “The Best Of The Alan Parsons Project.” The only problem is that there’s so much variance between the volume levels that there’s really no point in burning the CDs, because I’ll constantly be adjusting the volume, therefore ruining my listening experience. Are you saying that, because all these separate tracks didn’t come off of my own personal CDs, then the volume problem is simply something I’m going to accept—-no matter how many “Best Of” CDs I burn? Is this the position in which I find myself?
As a final question (I hope!): If you recall the comedy skits I mentioned in a previous post, do you know of any program that will help me reduce the OVERALL volume of each individual skit—-even though some of these skits have cut-and-pasted portions within them (from other skits) with different volume levels? The idea is to get each of these skits to have the same overall volume, and then I have to find a way to get ALL of the volume-corrected skits at or near the same dB when I burn them to CD. I have the following software programs at my disposal, if you think any of these might help me do this: Cool Edit Pro, iZotope RX 2 Advanced, and WavePad Sound Editor.
I appreciate your patience with me; and, it goes without saying that, if you’ve reached your limit with my incessant questioning, I’ll completely understand. God knows that if I could find all these answers myself online, I wouldn’t be burning up all the forums like this. I think I'm pretty close to finally "getting" it, and, who knows, someday, may even be able to help a similar poor sap out of the same nightmare!
It’s funny if it all comes down to the fact that, because I’m too cheap (broke?) to go out and buy CDs, I’m never going to be able to listen to my homemade CDs without adjusting the volume. (Beggars can't be choosers?) But, then again, many of the tunes in my collection are rare and hard-to-find tracks that can’t even be found on any CDs available for purchase. Hell, if it weren’t for YouTube, I wouldn’t have half the obscure songs in my collection! Such is the nature of paradoxes!
Looking forward to your next response—-should you choose to post another.
Apparently I'm not thinking clearly late at night. Heh. Your end goal here is to have CDs burnt to listen to. This makes things dead simple. Just use foobar2000. It burns CDs. It has replaygain functionality. And it has the smart limiter I mentioned to deal with the clipping. I was replying earlier from the standpoint of actually listening to the mp3s directly. The fact that you're burning CDs makes this as simple as it gets, because we no longer care about the problems I was talking about, as they don't exist in that scenario. You're going to CD audio, so you can process as much as you like.
So, load up your tracks for your first CD in foobar2000.
Select all tracks. Right-click playlist. ReplayGain menu. Scan per-file trackgain.
Right-click the playlist, go to the Convert menu, Write audio CD.
Checkmark ReplayGain Processing, and go into its menu via the "..." button.
Source mode: track
Processing: apply gain
Preamp: Can fiddle if you like, but leaving them at 0.0 dB means the 89 dB target will be used. Click OK.
Checkmark DSP Processing, and go into its menu.
In the list of Available DSPs on the right you will see Advanced Limiter. Highlight that, and click the left arrow button to add it to the list of Active DSPs on the left. It has no parameters to configure, so that's all you need to do with that limiter. Click OK.
Checkmark Dither.
If you like, checkmark Burn gaplessly. This dertermines whether or not you have 2-second gaps between each track on the CD.
Click OK to burn.
This will work great for your Alan Parsons Project project, too. ;)
All the CD tracks you get from this procedure will be at the same 89 dB average volume, and none of them will contain any clipping. The Advanced Limiter that foobar2000 has actually does a pretty nice job of limiting/compressing only the small portions that it needs to in order to avoid clipping, and I doubt you'll have any issues with the job it performs.
The nice thing about this method is you can also preview the results simply by listening beforehand in foobar2000. Just make sure in the Preferences section for playback that you have the same ReplayGain settings as mentioned above, and also have the Advanced Limiter in the DSP section. Then what you listen to in foobar2000 will be the same as the result that you would get from the CD burning procedure.
As for your comedy problem, you might be able to get away with the same procedure as outlined above, but with one addition. In the DSP section you can try removing the Advanced Limiter, and substituting the Hard -6 dB limiter. And preview the results and see how it sounds. It might be satisfactory. If not, it would be quite labour-intensive to decode all those comedy tracks and isolate all the different sections to apply volume changes to them individually. It would work, but depending on the amount of material you're talking about it could take a long time to accomplish. The Hard -6 dB limiter might save you the trouble.
Report back with your experience!
Last edit: Clayton Macleod 2015-06-07
Sorry, Clayton, that you didn’t realize that my end goal was to actually burn my mp3s onto CDs. I’m glad to hear you say that this now makes things “dead simple,” because I have to admit that I was seriously thinking that if it was going to be this hard to get a nice, uniform 89.0 dB level (or at least a satisfactory range) for my ENTIRE audio collection—-many of which were (are) going to be burned onto CDs—-then perhaps burning mp3-source CDs just wasn’t worth it!
You state that the fact that I’m burning CDs makes this as simple as it gets, because we no longer care about the problems you were talking about, as they don't exist in this scenario. Needless to say, I am greatly relieved to hear this. But before I (we) proceed, please allow me to re-iterate some points, just to make sure we’re on the same page.
From my previous posts you’re aware that I recently applied MP3Gain’s Track Gain to all of my mp3-source audio files—about 10,000 songs. Although I set my target value at 89.0, what I actually got (have) is a range of 88.2 to 89.8 dB—-which is plus or minus .8 dB the 89.0 target value. Although I was (am) willing to accept the 88.2 to 89.8 dB range (because I simply HAVE to, right?), I must admit that I was (am) concerned that, say, if three songs in a row on a burned CD were at 89.8 dB (the highest value in my range) and the next song that came on was at 88.2 dB (the lowest value in my range), I would hear a noticeable change in volume because of a sudden drop of 1.6 dB. But my concern goes even deeper, because, even though the bulk of my audio collection lies between the aforementioned range, there are still quite a few that lie well below the lowest value of 88.2 dB—-some as low as 84 and 85 dB, which would be even MORE noticeable on a burned CD. And I don’t know HOW to get these “stragglers” into my preferred range. I would imagine that if there was way to do this, this you would told me about it by now.
Nevertheless, and, if I’m understanding you correctly (and I really hope that I am!), you’re telling me that all of these concerns are irrelevant now because I no longer need to use MP3Gain, nor Nero to burn my CDs, because Foobar 2000 will not only convert ALL of my mp3s to 89.0 (or, at the very least, the aforementioned range), but it will do an even better job of burning CDs that my Nero 2015 program that I just got. And I don’t even have to worry that many of my post-MP3Gained sound files remained clipped, because Foobar 200 will fix that for me before burning.
Is that it? Do I have it right? Please tell me I have it right!
One thing I’m a little concerned about is whether Foobar 2000 will give me the capability of writing CD text, as Nero does, because I really like the idea of inputting the exact text for each tune that is going to appear on my car and home CD players. Will I be able to do with this with Foobar 2000?
I have your Foobar instructions, and I also plan on reading the entire Foobar 2000 online manual I found at the following website:
http://www.techspot.com/tweaks/foobar/index.shtml
Upon hearing from you again (hopefully with your response to my above-mentioned concerns) I will indeed attempt to burn a CD with Foobar 2000 and see how consistent the volume sounds on each of the tracks.
A question about setting up Foobar to whatever functions you think I will need:
I have downloaded the program, but during the installation process a box appears that states: “Quick Appearance Setup,” and I’m given nine setup options:
Album List + Properties
Album List + Properties (tabbed)
Album List + Properties (tabbed) + Visualizations
Album List + Properties + Visualizations
Album List + Visualization
Album List + Visualization (alternate)
Simple Playlist + Tabs
Slim View + Tabs
Visualization + Cover Art + Tabs
Could you please tell me which option will suit my particular needs, and any other settings in the program I may need to tweak upon installation?
Thanks again for taking me under your wing like this. Even though the above-mentioned website states that Foobar can be a little difficult to master, I feel you’re giving some pretty advanced tools to not only help me find my way out of my current little nightmare, but help me to assist others who may one day need MY help!
The 88.2-89.8 dB deviation is something you only have to live with while actually playing back mp3s. I don't think you're actually likely to notice the small amount of deviation anyway, but it is avoided when going to CDs in the method I lined out anyway. Providing, of course, you do let foobar2000 analyze trackgain again. Since you are decoding it is capable of matching things up right to 89.0 dB exactly.
edit - It analyzes insanely fast compared to mp3gain, so don't let re-analyzation time deter you from re-analyzing for this job. The time involved for that step will be relatively small. The algorithm is both faster, and multi-threaded, so just do it. ;)
As for your stragglers, when using this method they will also be taken care of, just as a matter of course. Foobar2000's re-analyzation of the replaygain values will give it what it needs to know to both get it to the desired average of 89.0 dB and also have the clipping taken care of by the advanced limiter. Your stragglers will be brought into line with the least amount of fudging-for-clipping possible. I believe you will be happy with your CDs in the end. You won't have to do anything extra for them, as the method will already be taking that into account. Remember, your stragglers are only 84 dB or whatever because you were avoiding clipping. But this method is going to be taking care of that situation anyway. Just follow those steps and you'll be golden, stragglers or not.
Now, as for CD Text, I could be mistaken but I don't think foobar2000's supplied CD burning plugin writes it for you. If that is the case, and you really want CD Text, you may have to add some steps in the process to accomplish that. You would then use foobar2000 to output to .wav files instead, with the Convert To menu from the playlist view, and then you could go back to burning with Nero to get CD Text in there. It would mean a little more fiddling work on your part, but you'd get the titles you're after onto the CDs in the end.
As for the "Quick Appearance Setup" selections, well, I think that's more or less just preference. I'd been using that program for so long that I don't think I've ever seen that stuff, as I've just been doing upgrade installs over older versions for quite some time now. I would say I'm just using the Simple Playlist + Tabs view, in that case. But I'm sure you can just switch between them as you desire, too. In any case, that would be the simplest view, and since you're only using it to get some work done that may be most suitable.
Last edit: Clayton Macleod 2015-06-10
Thanks again! I will study the online manual, plus incorporate your instructions, and see what I can come up with. I was under the impression that I needed to ditch Nero as my CD burner, and use foobar exclusively. But I think you're saying that, if I want to enable CD Text, I may indeed have to stick with Nero. What I'm gathering here is that foobar is a much more advanced version of MP3Gain that can also actually burn CDs after it perfectly adjusts the volumes of the tracks that are to be be burned. Is this right?
Side note: I noticed in one of your posts that, when spelling the word "labor," you used the British spelling: "labour." So I would imagine you're in England or Ireland or thereabouts? I live just outside of Orlando, FL.
Yes, I think you might still have to use Nero for the burning stage to get CD Text. Obviously with its own normalization turned off so it doesn't screw with foobar2000's work. hehe. ;)
No, actually I'm up in Canada, from a very small place called Parksville in British Columbia. Off the coast of Vancouver, over on Vancouver Island.
http://goo.gl/FGa24z
Last edit: Clayton Macleod 2015-06-10
Parksville looks like a really nice little beach town!
Without having yet read the foobar manual, nor applying your instructions to a sample burn, is it my understanding that I am to re-run all of my mp3-source tracks through foobar (even though I've already processed all of them through MP3Gain), and, upon doing so, it will do away with my 88.2 to 89.8 dB range (and the stranglers), and all the clipping, and will allow me to burn all of my CDs (via foobar of Nero) with a consistent 89.0 dB for all 10,000 mp3s in my collection?
Yup, pretty quiet here through most of the year, and then a tourist draw in the summertime. Grew up here. Great place to live, but leaning towards difficult to make a living here. Hehe. I haven't left, so it must be ok overall. Hahaha
Yes, let foobar2000 analyze them again. And everything will be matched up very closely after that. That won't take anywhere near as long as you'd think. It is pretty fast.
I seem to be having a little difficulty following through with your instructions. Since we've determined that I'm not actually going to be using foobar to burn my CDs (choosing instead to remain with Nero, if only for the CD Text option), could you modify your original instructions (which I've included below), so that they will allow me to use them merely as a more advanced version of MP3Gain? What I need is to be able to once again use 89.0 dB as my target setting and get all of my mp3-source tracks to be as close to this number as possible--and without any clipping, if at all possible. I'm assuming that once I learn how to use foobar correctly, I'll be able to actually SEE that my tracks are all now at 89.0 dB and that there is no clipping?
Here are your original instructions for modifying and burning files with foobar, which you can cut, paste, and modify in your next post--if, that is, you are willing to continue to assist me!
Select all tracks. Right-click playlist. ReplayGain menu. Scan per-file trackgain.
Right-click the playlist, go to the Convert menu, Write audio CD.
Checkmark ReplayGain Processing, and go into its menu via the "..." button.
Source mode: track
Processing: apply gain
Preamp: Can fiddle if you like, but leaving them at 0.0 dB means the 89 dB target will be used. Click OK.
Checkmark DSP Processing, and go into its menu.
In the list of Available DSPs on the right you will see Advanced Limiter. Highlight that, and click the left arrow button to add it to the list of Active DSPs on the left. It has no parameters to configure, so that's all you need to do with that limiter. Click OK.
Checkmark Dither.
If you like, checkmark Burn gaplessly. This dertermines whether or not you have 2-second gaps between each track on the CD.
Click OK to burn.
You want to convert to wav files in foobar2000 so you get all of the processing it can do for you, but then have something you can burn in Nero to get the CD Text you are after.
Load up the first CD's tracks in the playlist. Select tracks in playlist. Right-click playlist. ReplayGain menu. Scan per-file trackgain. You may have to tell it that you want to rescan even though they already have ReplayGain data. When that's done, save the new data.
Then, one time, with the first CD's tracks still selected in the playlist, we need to double-check that the wav writer is set for the correct parameters for CD audio. I think it is by default, but I'm not entirely sure with my own configuration having been customized over the years. So, let's check first. Right-click the playlist again, go to the Convert menu, and go to the "..." selection to get into that settings area. Double-click the "wav" selection on the left-hand side to load it, and then go into each of the sections below and make sure they are set like this:
Output format
Make sure WAV is selected.
Output bit depth is 16-bit.
Dither is always.
Then click back.
Destination
Output path: you might want set to source track folder. You may want to specify a different location. Up to you.
Output style and file name formatting: I have it set to this, but you can customize that if you like, too. %artist% - %tracknumber% - %title%
Then click back.
Processing
Additional decoding: no checkmark.
ReplayGain: source mode 'track', processing 'apply gain', preamp 0.0
DSP: Select 'Advanced Limiter' on the right in available DSPs, and click the left arrow to add it to the left under Active DSPs.
Then click back.
Other: No checkmarks in any of the boxes.
Then click back.
Then finally you can click Convert. This will write out the wav files you need for the first CD. For all subsequent CDs you can load the new tracks up in the playlist and do the replaygain scan, and then from the Convert menu you can simply select 'wav' for all subsequent playlists. The settings you checked the first time will be saved in the 'wav' menu selection, so you don't need to check them every time.
Once you have a set of wav files for the first CD you can just load them up in Nero to burn as an audio CD, and adjust the CD text entries to your liking. Make sure the normalize feature in Nero is not selected anymore, of course. ;)
Last edit: Clayton Macleod 2015-06-15
It make take me a while to process and apply all that you've shown me, and before I actually burn my first CD with the new values; but, when I do, I'll let you know how it worked out. You've been very kind to do this for me, and I greatly appreciate it!
No problem. ;)
omg thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One thing you might consider if you have the original CDs to play with as your source is using foobar2000 to do this job. It has replaygain support. (It also happens to be much, much faster.) But it also had a smart limiter that you could employ to give you your desired volume changes, while using a smart compressor/limiter to stop the clipping from happening. This involves working with the raw wav data though, so it is not best-suites to working with lossy compression sources like MP3, if decoding and reencoding the audio matters to you, since that involves another lossy compression step on top of the original one.
If you don't get a reply before then, I'll send a reply when I get home from work. Only had time to read this at the moment. ;)
Hi Clayton,
Haven't had a chance, until now, to actually begin the process of using Foobar2000 to convert all my mp3s so I can begin the process of burning them all to various CDs. To refresh your memory: I was tired of using Nero's "normalize" function when burning CDs, because I still found myself constantly having to adjust the volume when listening to them. So I decided to convert the 10,000 songs in my collection, via MP3Gain, using 89.0 as my target dB range. I was disappointed to see that the best MP3Gain could do was give me an 88.2 to 89.8 dB RANGE instead, which was/is still not good enough because when, say for example, I listen to a song at 88.2 and then listen to the following song at 89.8, the 1.6 dB variance is quite noticeable--and I'll STILL be adjusting the volume when listening to CDs!
My understanding, from re-reading all your previous response-posts, is that Foobar 2000 can not only convert all 10,000 mp3s in my collection to EXACTLY 89.0 dB, but it can also remove the clipping from the 25 "stragglers" I have--that will only become "unclipped" (via MP3Gain) if I convert them below the lowest dB level in my range, which would be 88.2 and, therefore, unacceptable. Am I correct in my understanding?
I also gathered from your posts that Foobar2000 is more or less a far more advanced version of MP3Gain, meaning the latter program should now be considered obsolete for my purposes. Am I correct?
I've gathered from your posts, as well, that, although I can actually use Foobar2000 to burn my CDs, instead of using Nero, I would want to continue using the latter software because I want my CDs to be able to read text, which you've told me you don't think Foobar can do. Am I correct about this?
If I'm correct about all these things, would you mind terribly re-sending me simple instructions on how to go about using Foobar2000 simply to convert and remove clipping from all my mp3s, so that once I've done this, I can start using Nero to burn them to CDs?
As always, I appreciate all you have done to educate me on this matter.
Please tell me how to use properly Mp3Gain, i have House,Deep house,Electro,Edm ...tracks,and i want them to be as close as possible the same volume,but without any loss of quality.Which options in Mp3Gain should i use ?
all my tracks are Mp3 320 kbps