Thread: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?
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From: Randy W. S. <Ra...@Th...> - 2006-04-08 00:55:50
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I don't know what to do. I used to keep a list of todo items in my Treo. I have all kinds of stuff in there: some esoteric, some important. Sometimes I'll be working on something and think of something to check out later, so I'll jot down a note. Some stuff is just wishlist, fantasy stuff. But most of it is important stuff for this and the next couple releases. The reason I haven't put it in RT or similar is that there is some stuff that just don't belong, some of it is just notes to myself, and it seemed to make sense to separate my todo from general user todo items. But my Treo is falling apart after only an year and half of use (no more Treos, maybe RIM?), so I moved everything into an old fashioned 6"x9" notepad a couple months ago. Now I've lost it. It should be at home, in my car, or at the office, but I haven't found it yet after a week of looking. I can recover from the loss, though I'm still sure it'll turn up unless someone snatched it for their own use. Anyway, what I was wondering is would it make sense to set up a tiny little wiki or something that could be used as a developer's notebook? It could be private or public, but I'll warn that some things I note down are best ignored. It would be nice to have it where others can review, notably Ken, so they can comment on items or leave answers to some of the questions I jot down that I haven't had a chance to look up. The mailing-list is good for some of that, but it's hard to use as a reference. A wiki seems perfect for this type of thing. If nothing else, I could try to set one up on my site, but I think Earthlink only has perl 5.004. I really need to find another host. Other ideas? BTW, this is not for right now. Sometime after 0.28. Randy. |
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From: Ron S. <ro...@sa...> - 2006-04-08 03:08:22
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On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 20:55:39 -0400, Randy W. Sims wrote: Hi Randy > Other ideas? What you /really/ want is the definitive way of organizing ideas: TreePad: http://www.treepad.com/ OK, so it's not web-based... -- Cheers Ron Savage, ro...@sa... on 8/04/2006 http://savage.net.au/index.html Let the record show: Microsoft is not an Australian company |
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From: Johan V. <jvr...@sq...> - 2006-04-08 09:11:13
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Ron Savage <ro...@sa...> writes: > http://www.treepad.com/ > OK, so it's not web-based... Windows only, not Open Source, no thanks. -- Johan |
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From: Ron S. <ro...@sa...> - 2006-04-09 02:46:51
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On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 11:10:59 +0200, Johan Vromans wrote: Hi Johan >> http://www.treepad.com/ >> OK, so it's not web-based... >> > Windows only, not Open Source, no thanks. I understand you preference, and also agree (almost :-), but: o There /is/ a Linux version o There is a /freeware/ version You just reacted too quickly to read the info carefully. -- Cheers Ron Savage, ro...@sa... on 9/04/2006 http://savage.net.au/index.html Let the record show: Microsoft is not an Australian company |
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From: Johan V. <jvr...@sq...> - 2006-04-09 10:42:45
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Ron Savage <ro...@sa...> writes: > You just reacted too quickly to read the info carefully. I feel ashamed. My usual approach is to hit the download button to see if there's a linux version and/or source available. Looking at the web site I cannot figure out how I missed these yesterday. I must be getting old... Sorry for the confusion. -- Johan |
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From: Johan V. <jvr...@sq...> - 2006-04-09 11:29:24
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Ron Savage <ro...@sa...> writes: > o There /is/ a Linux version > o There is a /freeware/ version I downloaded it and gave it a try: $ cd /home/jv/tmp $ tar -zxvf tplitelx_complete.tar.gz BasicManual.html TreePadLiteLX $ ./TreePadLiteLX cd /home/jv Runtime error 230 at 08068F45 /home/jv/tmp/TreePadLiteLX/cach/TreePadLiteLX-s: line 8: 698 Segmentation fault $ex "$@" Created with InstallMade, sup...@fr... Freebyte.com All Rights Reserved, SuperObject Software Solutions Not only does it crash, it also wiped out itself (replaced the binary by a directory). Smart. Retry (moving the binary first): $ rm -fr TreePadLiteLX $ tar -zxvf tplitelx_complete.tar.gz BasicManual.html TreePadLiteLX $ mv TreePadLiteLX tp $ ./tp cd /home/jv Runtime error 230 at 08068F45 /home/jv/tmp/TreePadLiteLX/cach/TreePadLiteLX-s: line 8: 698 Segmentation fault $ex "$@" Created with InstallMade, sup...@fr... Freebyte.com All Rights Reserved, SuperObject Software Solutions No difference. If it were open source, I could take a look. Now I'm stuk. (But this is getting off-topic, I guess) -- Johan |
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From: Nadim K. <na...@kh...> - 2006-04-09 16:52:31
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On Sunday 09 April 2006 13.29, Johan Vromans wrote: > Ron Savage <ro...@sa...> writes: > > o There /is/ a Linux version > > o There is a /freeware/ version > > I downloaded it and gave it a try: > > ... > > No difference. > If it were open source, I could take a look. Now I'm stuk. I have no solution to that problem except recommending to install something else. I'm all linux so I can't recommend any windows app (nor would I want to) nor any platform independent. there is 'basket': http://basket.kde.org/ tuxcards: http://www.tuxcards.de/ knowit: http://knowit.sourceforge.net/index.html and last but absolutely not least, zim, the desktop wiki: http://zoidberg.student.utwente.nl/zim/docs/zim/faq.html Cheers, Nadim. |
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From: Johan V. <jvr...@sq...> - 2006-04-10 15:05:29
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Nadim Khemir <na...@kh...> writes: > there is 'basket': http://basket.kde.org/ Cute. > tuxcards: http://www.tuxcards.de/ Doesn't compile. > knowit: http://knowit.sourceforge.net/index.html 404 > and last but absolutely not least, zim, the desktop wiki: > http://zoidberg.student.utwente.nl/zim/docs/zim/faq.html Being a Perl addict, this is the perfect answer. (And it uses Module::Build for building, nice...) Thanks for the suggestions. -- Johan |
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From: Julian M. <ju...@me...> - 2006-04-10 15:11:40
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Johan Vromans wrote: > Nadim Khemir <na...@kh...> writes: > > knowit: http://knowit.sourceforge.net/index.html > > 404 Have you tried omitting the "/index.html" part? |
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From: Nadim K. <na...@kh...> - 2006-04-10 17:08:17
Attachments:
tuxcards.png
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On Monday 10 April 2006 17.05, Johan Vromans wrote: > > tuxcards: http://www.tuxcards.de/ > > Doesn't compile. the attach screenshot says otherwise > > knowit: http://knowit.sourceforge.net/index.html > 404 Sorry: http://knowit.sourceforge.net/ > > > and last but absolutely not least, zim, the desktop wiki: > > http://zoidberg.student.utwente.nl/zim/docs/zim/faq.html > > Being a Perl addict, this is the perfect answer. > (And it uses Module::Build for building, nice...) I'm having a mail discussion with Jaap and he's definitely into making zIm better. He like the idea of having a the possibility to have an on line/off line mode. Drop him a line, it's always nice to know when other use your software or want to make it better (you're all welcome to try my build system by the way ;) > Thanks for the suggestions. welcome, Nadim. |
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From: Jaap K. <j.g...@st...> - 2006-04-10 17:53:05
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Nadim Khemir wrote: .. 8< .. > I'm having a mail discussion with Jaap and he's definitely into making zIm > better. He like the idea of having a the possibility to have an on line/off > line mode. > > Drop him a line, it's always nice to know when other use your software or want > to make it better (you're all welcome to try my build system by the way ;) . 8< .. Already read the thread, I'm a long time sleeper on this list :) Bit off topic on this list so if anyone has suggestions for improvement (or just installation trouble) please mail me personally. -- Jaap Karssenberg <pa...@cp...> P.S. Johan maybe see you at A'dam.pm sometime this spring. |
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From: David G. <da...@hy...> - 2006-04-08 04:12:55
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Randy W. Sims wrote: > The mailing-list is good for some of that, but it's hard to use as a > reference. A wiki seems perfect for this type of thing. > > If nothing else, I could try to set one up on my site, but I think > Earthlink only has perl 5.004. I really need to find another host. I've had similar questions about what to do. I currently keep a lot of my "organized" todo lists in a program called LifeBalance (http://www.llamagraphics.com/) that syncs between my laptop and my treo phone. I also keep a Moleskine square-ruled pocket notebook (http://www.moleskine.co.uk/styles/) for more random jottings. I wind up doing a lot of brainstorming on the subway and use that to jot ideas down. A friend turned me onto it as a gift and I was skeptical at first, because I've never been one to keep a journal, but it's small enough to fit in the back pocket of jeans or a jacket pocket. I get my replacements at Barnes & Noble. Many of my recent modules (Class::InsideOut, File::pushd, ToolSet) were pretty much sketched out in first-draft form in it on the subway earlier this year. I've thought about using a wiki from time to time, but I'm often on the road with no net access -- until I find/write a wiki that works replicates between online/offline mode (say, using SVK/subversion as a back-end) I don't know that that will work for me. If I didn't travel as much, I'd consider some of the web-based solutions like Voo2do or some of the 37Signals stuff. (http://www.37signals.com/ and http://voo2do.com/) As for hosting, the catalyst web site has some suggestions that seem relatively perl-friendly. Regards, David Golden |
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From: Ken W. <ke...@ma...> - 2006-04-10 17:03:28
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On Apr 7, 2006, at 11:12 PM, David Golden wrote: > I also keep a Moleskine square-ruled pocket notebook (http:// > www.moleskine.co.uk/styles/) for more random jottings. I wind up > doing a lot of brainstorming on the subway and use that to jot > ideas down. A friend turned me onto it as a gift and I was > skeptical at first, because I've never been one to keep a journal, > but it's small enough to fit in the back pocket of jeans or a > jacket pocket. I get my replacements at Barnes & Noble. Many of > my recent modules (Class::InsideOut, File::pushd, ToolSet) were > pretty much sketched out in first-draft form in it on the subway > earlier this year. That's pretty awesome, thanks for mentioning it. I've been in the market for a pocket-sized blank book for about 2 years, but I haven't found one I like. I'm actually looking for one about half the size of the Moleskine ones (about 5cm x 7cm) with a nice non-spiral binding for my *front* pocket. But I bought the 13cm x 21cm one for notes for a probability study group I'm leading at work. I might have to join http://www.mnbookarts.org/ and make my own small book. =) -Ken |
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From: demerphq <dem...@gm...> - 2006-04-10 17:13:59
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On 4/10/06, Ken Williams <ke...@ma...> wrote: > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 11:12 PM, David Golden wrote: > > > I also keep a Moleskine square-ruled pocket notebook (http:// > > www.moleskine.co.uk/styles/) for more random jottings. I wind up > > doing a lot of brainstorming on the subway and use that to jot > > ideas down. A friend turned me onto it as a gift and I was > > skeptical at first, because I've never been one to keep a journal, > > but it's small enough to fit in the back pocket of jeans or a > > jacket pocket. I get my replacements at Barnes & Noble. Many of > > my recent modules (Class::InsideOut, File::pushd, ToolSet) were > > pretty much sketched out in first-draft form in it on the subway > > earlier this year. > > That's pretty awesome, thanks for mentioning it. I've been in the > market for a pocket-sized blank book for about 2 years, but I haven't > found one I like. I'm actually looking for one about half the size > of the Moleskine ones (about 5cm x 7cm) with a nice non-spiral > binding for my *front* pocket. But I bought the 13cm x 21cm one for > notes for a probability study group I'm leading at work. > > I might have to join http://www.mnbookarts.org/ and make my own small > book. =3D) I too got my first Moleskine this weekend. Actually my GF and I bought seve= ral. Thanks David. :-) Yves -- perl -Mre=3Ddebug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/" |
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From: David G. <da...@hy...> - 2006-04-10 21:20:25
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demerphq wrote: > On 4/10/06, Ken Williams <ke...@ma...> wrote: >> That's pretty awesome, thanks for mentioning it. I've been in the >> market for a pocket-sized blank book for about 2 years, but I haven't >> found one I like. I'm actually looking for one about half the size >> of the Moleskine ones (about 5cm x 7cm) with a nice non-spiral >> binding for my *front* pocket. But I bought the 13cm x 21cm one for >> notes for a probability study group I'm leading at work. >> >> I might have to join http://www.mnbookarts.org/ and make my own small >> book. =) > > I too got my first Moleskine this weekend. Actually my GF and I bought several. > > Thanks David. :-) Eeek. Sorry for perpetuating this way-off-topic thread, but here's a tip on using it: On advice of my friend -- and it works -- if you haven't written in it yet, reserve the first 8 pages as a table of contents. I number 1-25, 26-50, etc. up to 192. As I add stuff, I number and date pages in the top corner, add a title on top and make a note in the TOC. It makes it really easy to find stuff later. Maybe I'll post a picture somewhere. And make sure you use a waterproof pen! (I like the Uniball Deluxe Micro -- the flat clip slips perfectly into the binding for easy storage and ready access.) Regards, David Golden |
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From: Johan V. <jvr...@sq...> - 2006-04-08 09:06:13
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"Randy W. Sims" <Ra...@Th...> writes: > But my Treo is falling apart after only an year and half of use (no > more Treos, maybe RIM?), ... Now I've lost it. You do have a backup, don't you? Anyone with a Treo compatible PDA could help you restore it... -- Johan |
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From: Randy W. S. <ml...@th...> - 2006-04-08 10:39:41
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Johan Vromans wrote: > "Randy W. Sims" <Ra...@Th...> writes: > > >>But my Treo is falling apart after only an year and half of use (no >>more Treos, maybe RIM?), ... Now I've lost it. > > > You do have a backup, don't you? Anyone with a Treo compatible PDA > could help you restore it... I haven't lost anything from my Treo; I still have it. (I would rather have lost it though.) It's the notebook that I lost, and it had a couple of months of notes in it which I'm now missing. =( Randy. |
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From: Nadim K. <na...@kh...> - 2006-04-08 14:49:46
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On Saturday 08 April 2006 02.55, Randy W. Sims wrote: > I don't know what to do. > ... > The mailing-list is good for some of that, but it's hard to use as a > reference. A wiki seems perfect for this type of thing. I've use a wiki to put down idea etc before and it worked fine. We've just starting using a wiki and an IRC channel for the next version of our build system and it works nice (well I would like the others to use it more but they like throwing ideas up and let me write them down) I've spend a week-end looking around at what to use. I recommend 'dokuwiki'. Kwiki is unfortunately completely unusable because of it's speed. I use gentoo and everything installed in 5 mn. It's very complete too. A wiki is not the siver bullet, one area that no wiki is good at is reorganising pages. I agree RT would have been nice but it is not good enough, It's difficult to organise things hierarchically and the visual part is not as attractive as a wiki. The RT on CPAN is also too slow. > If nothing else, I could try to set one up on my site, but I think > Earthlink only has perl 5.004. I really need to find another host. Or run your own server. Maybe someone would put up a wiki for M::B whith a "private" area. Cheers, Nadim. |
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From: Eric W. <scr...@gm...> - 2006-04-08 16:10:58
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# from Nadim Khemir
# on Saturday 08 April 2006 07:58 am:
>A wiki is not the siver bullet, one area that no wiki is good at is
>reorganising pages.
There's also the "type your page in this small box" syndrome, and the
troubles with unauthenticated access leading to viagrification, on top
of the aforementioned issue of not having offline access.
I'm thinking that a wiki that could be backended with a pile of YAML
files in a subversion repository would be great.
o publicly visible info
o quick access via web terminals
o offline mode ($svk++)
o ability to make edits from an editor
(aka: your development environment)
For me at least, the headspace shift of having to open a browser, load a
page, login, etc. is enough to cause me to forget whatever it was that
I was going to post.
True, this doesn't solve the big todo-list problem, which is mostly that
it is difficult to decide where to categorize something and/or how
important it is. It does add another "view" of the information,
without strapping you into a silly web interface for adding quick notes
or editing multiple pages.
It also probably doesn't work too well as a general-purpose wiki, though
I suppose it is possible to add some mark(down|up) to it.
Basically, just a one-file per page like so:
----
# make_todo_wiki.yml
---
title: Make a TODO Wiki
tags:
- wiki
- todo
- web 2.0
content: |
I'm thinking that a wiki that could be backended with a pile of YAML
files in a subversion repository would be great.
o publicly visible info
o quick access via web terminals
o offline mode ($svk++)
o ability to make edits from an editor
(aka: your development environment)
----
It seems that the necessary components are already available? Add glue,
server, and documentation?
--Eric
--
Issues of control, repair, improvement, cost, or just plain
understandability all come down strongly in favor of open source
solutions to complex problems of any sort.
--Robert G. Brown
---------------------------------------------------
http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------
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From: Nadim K. <na...@kh...> - 2006-04-08 18:32:09
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Hi, On Saturday 08 April 2006 18.10, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # on Saturday 08 April 2006 07:58 am: > >A wiki is not the siver bullet, one area that no wiki is good at is > >reorganising pages. > > There's also the "type your page in this small box" syndrome, dokuwiki allows you to make the box smaller or bigger and a few other things like run you own php code to do what you please > and the > troubles with unauthenticated access leading to viagrification, most wikis have access control now. > on top of the aforementioned issue of not having offline access. well, for few pages, use a local wiki that has the same markup as you "global" wiki. just synch by hand when online. If you modify a page that might be modified by someone else while you are editing offline, a simple scrap script and a kdiff3 session should fix that > I'm thinking that a wiki that could be backended with a pile of YAML > files in a subversion repository would be great. > > o publicly visible info > o quick access via web terminals > o offline mode ($svk++) I agree on this one, though svk is not what I would call stable. > o ability to make edits from an editor > (aka: your development environment) I agree on this one too you want to have a look at this one http://wikipediafs.sourceforge.net and this one http://nedko.arnaudov.name/soft/wikifs/wikifuse.py > > For me at least, the headspace shift of having to open a browser, load a > page, login, etc. is enough to cause me to forget whatever it was that > I was going to post. arf!! make a short link to the page and let your browser remember your password. I'm more lazy than you are, don't try to prove the opposit you'll loose, and I manage to use a wiki. Cheers, Nadim |
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From: Eric W. <scr...@gm...> - 2006-04-08 19:03:35
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# from Nadim Khemir # on Saturday 08 April 2006 11:40 am: >you want to have a look at this one http://wikipediafs.sourceforge.net >and this one http://nedko.arnaudov.name/soft/wikifs/wikifuse.py Interesting, but the kernel module requirement means it won't work for all of the developers. Yes, I suppose that the subversion server could connect this way, but that seems like a layer of glue that isn't needed. The svn commit and conflict resolution model is fairly straightforward already. >> For me at least, the headspace shift of having to open a browser, >> load a page, login, etc. is enough to cause me to forget whatever it >> was that I was going to post. > >arf!! make a short link to the page and let your browser remember Yeah, there's also openid. It's still a context shift and lacks the finger-feel of vim. Then there is the page load time (even on dsl there is at least some latency.) You might win the laziness contest, but don't get into an impatience joust with me :-) (snipping out-of order) >> o offline mode ($svk++) >I agree on this one, though svk is not what I would call stable. You can sort of use svn offline. The svk thing is just a bonus. I haven't had any stability issues with it either. >> o ability to make edits from an editor >> (aka: your development environment) >I agree on this one too So, are you agreeing with me and just deriding my bookmarking skills or what? :-) Seriously, I seem to remember something about kwiki having a nice plugin mechanism, but I have yet to look into it and the mention of kwiki seems to make some people grimace. Maybe wifty would be nifty. --Eric -- "But as to modern architecture, let us drop it and let us take modernistic out and shoot it at sunrise." --F.L. Wright --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- |
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From: Nadim K. <na...@kh...> - 2006-04-08 19:41:28
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On Saturday 08 April 2006 21.03, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > >> o offline mode ($svk++) > >I agree on this one, though svk is not what I would call stable. > > You can sort of use svn offline. The svk thing is just a bonus. I > haven't had any stability issues with it either. Well I have send an error report to their mailling list. I don't appreciate when a CM tool deletes files that are not under CM control. It whiped my dev directory in one shot. > >> o ability to make edits from an editor > >> (aka: your development environment) > So, are you agreeing with me and just deriding my bookmarking skills or > what? :-) I agree but I think you have no bookmarking skills =) > Seriously, I seem to remember something about kwiki having a nice plugin > mechanism, but I have yet to look into it and the mention of kwiki > seems to make some people grimace. Maybe wifty would be nifty. Kwiki is, IMHO, broken. 5 sec to load an empty page from a server running on the same box is just not acceptable. The one important thing, if you are going to write anything, is to handle page moving and keep the links in synch. Cheers, Nadim. |
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From: Ken W. <ke...@ma...> - 2006-04-10 17:08:27
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On Apr 7, 2006, at 7:55 PM, Randy W. Sims wrote: > Anyway, what I was wondering is would it make sense to set up a > tiny little wiki or something that could be used as a developer's > notebook? It could be private or public, but I'll warn that some > things I note down are best ignored. It would be nice to have it > where others can review, notably Ken, so they can comment on items > or leave answers to some of the questions I jot down that I haven't > had a chance to look up. As for M::B, my usual M.O. is to use the "read" status flag on my inbox, and the tickets in RT, as my issue list. That means things slip through the cracks when I accidentally change my mailbox flags and don't respond, or don't solve the requested issue. Luckily that never happens in RT, but then I have to go look at the RT queue... My actual dream in this area is to develop an "argumentative framework" system, which people could use to explicitly structure a conversation about issues that are open for discussion among a group of people. But my chances of getting that built anytime soon are approximately nil. =) The only reservation I'd have about a wiki would be that it would dilute the mailing list and RT, so that now there'd be three places to look instead of two. But that may not be a very serious problem if it brings tangible benefits. And it would also be nice to let people use the wiki for cookbook-like postings. -Ken |
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From: Eric W. <scr...@gm...> - 2006-04-10 17:50:38
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# from Ken Williams
# on Monday 10 April 2006 10:08 am:
>The only reservation I'd have about a wiki would be that it would =A0
>dilute the mailing list and RT, so that now there'd be three places =A0
>to look instead of two. =A0But that may not be a very serious problem =A0
>if it brings tangible benefits. =A0And it would also be nice to let =A0
>people use the wiki for cookbook-like postings.
Maybe BP is heading in the direction of integrating these three forums=20
with Jifty? I think they each serve a particular purpose.
RT - bugs and coherent (i.e. with tests or patches) feature requests
ML - ongoing discussions
Wiki - persistent, somewhat organized, collaborative store of data
Most people are comfortable with their existing mail client and most of=20
those clients have the "offline mode" issue solved (sorry google, gmail=20
is not the way of the future.)
The "everybody has a browser" syndrome doesn't really cut it for me. =20
IMO, most BUI interfaces are somehow crippled compared to what can be=20
done with a desktop client. Besides the obvious limitation of an=20
offline mode, the fact is that javascript just won't get you *good*=20
cross-browser keyboard shortcuts. Also, expecting the data to be on=20
the server makes it difficult for anyone to really try a new idea. I=20
guess you can say I'm holding out for web 3.0 where we realize that=20
network-connected desktop clients are a good thing :-)
To come to a point, maybe something like zim could handle the RT/Wiki=20
aspects. What's needed is distributed backends to RT and a wiki. To=20
me, that says that both need to cut ties to the SQL DB, but that's just=20
a guess at a low-level detail.
What should the M::B team do in the meantime?
=2D-Eric
=2D-=20
=2D--------------------------------------------------
http://scratchcomputing.com
=2D--------------------------------------------------
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