module-build-general — General discussion about Module::Build project

[Module::Build] Re: CPAN Upload: Y/YV/YVES/ExtUtils-Install-1.38.tar.gz

[Rafael Garcia-S. <rga...@gm...>]

On 09/04/06, demerphq <dem...@gm...> wrote:
> Notable changes are better Win32 support for in-use files, and support
> for an INSTALL.SKIP file to prevent stuff being installed that
> shouldnt be. This should be particularly useful for folks that use SVN
> and would like to be able to do an install directly from their working
> directory without install svn directories into their perl module tree.

How does the purpose of this file differ from the one of MANIFEST.SKIP ?

[Module::Build] Fwd: CPAN Upload: Y/YV/YVES/ExtUtils-Install-1.38.tar.gz

[demerphq <dem...@gm...>]

Hi All,

I am now one of the co-maintainers of ExtUtils-Install, and i have
released the first standalone of the distro as ExtUtils-Install-1.38

Testing and etc on non-win32 platforms would be really appreciated.

Notable changes are better Win32 support for in-use files, and support
for an INSTALL.SKIP file to prevent stuff being installed that
shouldnt be. This should be particularly useful for folks that use SVN
and would like to be able to do an install directly from their working
directory without install svn directories into their perl module tree.

If no bugs are reported in the next few weeks ill put together a patch
to synch blead.

Cheers,
Yves


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: PAUSE <up...@pa...>
Date: Apr 9, 2006 11:09 PM
Subject: CPAN Upload: Y/YV/YVES/ExtUtils-Install-1.38.tar.gz
To: Yves <dem...@gm...>


The uploaded file

    ExtUtils-Install-1.38.tar.gz

has entered CPAN as

  file: $CPAN/authors/id/Y/YV/YVES/ExtUtils-Install-1.38.tar.gz
  size: 54015 bytes
   md5: 15219e1cc3b7a33a1aa2f4e24559ad56

No action is required on your part
Request entered by: YVES (Yves)
Request entered on: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:08:43 GMT
Request completed:  Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:09:07 GMT

Thanks,
--
paused, v460


--
perl -Mre=3Ddebug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"

Re: [Module::Build] In _backticks(): multi-arg open not accepted by perl5.004 parser

[Ken W. <ke...@ma...>]

Grr!

This patch should fix it, though:

@@ -346,7 +346,8 @@
    my ($self, @cmd) = @_;
    if ($self->have_multiarg_pipeopen) {
      local *FH;
-    open FH, "-|", @cmd or die "Can't run @cmd: $!";
+    unshift @cmd, "-|";
+    open FH, @cmd or die "Can't run @cmd: $!";
      return wantarray ? <FH> : join '', <FH>;
    } else {
      my $cmd = $self->_quote_args(@cmd);


Committing.

  -Ken

On Apr 9, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Randy W. Sims wrote:

> randys@new-pieria:~/Module-Build$ ~/perl5.005/bin/perl5.00504 Build.PL
>
> Too many arguments for open at lib/Module/Build/Base.pm line 355,  
> near "@cmd or"BEGIN not safe after errors--compilation aborted at  
> lib/Module/Build/Base.pm line 574.
> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at lib/Module/Build.pm line 14.
> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at Build.PL line 10.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Module-build-general mailing list
> Mod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/module-build-general

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Nadim K. <na...@kh...>]

On Sunday 09 April 2006 13.29, Johan Vromans wrote:
> Ron Savage <ro...@sa...> writes:
> > o There /is/ a Linux version
> > o There is a /freeware/ version
>
> I downloaded it and gave it a try:
>
> ...
> 
> No difference.
> If it were open source, I could take a look. Now I'm stuk.

I have no solution to that problem except recommending to install something 
else. I'm all linux so I can't recommend any windows app (nor would I want 
to) nor any platform independent.

there is 'basket': http://basket.kde.org/

tuxcards: http://www.tuxcards.de/

knowit: http://knowit.sourceforge.net/index.html

and last but absolutely not least, zim, the desktop wiki: 
http://zoidberg.student.utwente.nl/zim/docs/zim/faq.html

Cheers, Nadim.

[Module::Build] Wrapup: Are there any open issues I haven't recently addressed?

[Randy W. S. <Ra...@Th...>]

After losing my notes, I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage.

If there are any open issues that I haven't responded to in the last few 
days or that are not already logged in RT, please let me know.

Those that I have responded to I hope to wrap up this week, in the next 
few days if the proposed solutions are sufficient.

Thanks,
Randy.

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Johan V. <jvr...@sq...>]

Ron Savage <ro...@sa...> writes:

> o There /is/ a Linux version
> o There is a /freeware/ version

I downloaded it and gave it a try:

  $ cd /home/jv/tmp
  $ tar -zxvf tplitelx_complete.tar.gz
  BasicManual.html
  TreePadLiteLX
  $ ./TreePadLiteLX 
  cd /home/jv
  Runtime error 230 at 08068F45
  /home/jv/tmp/TreePadLiteLX/cach/TreePadLiteLX-s: line 8:   698 Segmentation fault      $ex "$@"
  Created with InstallMade, sup...@fr... Freebyte.com
  All Rights Reserved, SuperObject Software Solutions

Not only does it crash, it also wiped out itself (replaced the binary
by a directory). Smart.

Retry (moving the binary first):

  $ rm -fr TreePadLiteLX
  $ tar -zxvf tplitelx_complete.tar.gz
  BasicManual.html
  TreePadLiteLX
  $ mv TreePadLiteLX tp
  $ ./tp
  cd /home/jv
  Runtime error 230 at 08068F45
  /home/jv/tmp/TreePadLiteLX/cach/TreePadLiteLX-s: line 8:   698 Segmentation fault      $ex "$@"
  Created with InstallMade, sup...@fr... Freebyte.com
  All Rights Reserved, SuperObject Software Solutions

No difference.
If it were open source, I could take a look. Now I'm stuk.

(But this is getting off-topic, I guess)

-- Johan

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Johan V. <jvr...@sq...>]

Ron Savage <ro...@sa...> writes:

> You just reacted too quickly to read the info carefully.

I feel ashamed.
My usual approach is to hit the download button to see if there's a
linux version and/or source available. Looking at the web site I
cannot figure out how I missed these yesterday.
I must be getting old...

Sorry for the confusion.

-- Johan

Re: [Module::Build] Preserving files' executable bits, once more

[Julian M. <ju...@me...>]

Randy W. Sims wrote:
> Julian Mehnle wrote:
> > [...]
> > The intent is to install misc/foo-bar to /etc/foo/bar (with /etc/foo/
> > belonging to another package and bar being a hook script), which
> > basically works ok.  misc/foo-bar has the executable bit set, however
> > when the file is copied to blib/etc-global/foo/bar, the x bit gets
> > lost.
> >
> > Is that by design?  If not, I hope this can be fixed before the
> > release of 0.28.
>
> Borrowing code from ExtUtils::Install::install() and ::pm_to_blib(), the
> copy_if_modified() method now preserves file mode and timestamps. This
> is the method used throughout MB to copy files, so behavior should now
> be consistent throughout.

That sounds very good, thank you!  I'm looking forward to 0.28.

Julian.

Re: [Module::Build] odd module::build warning

[Randy W. S. <ml...@th...>]

Tyler MacDonald wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 	Since I've gotten the "building a package that depends on a
> module::build subclass from another package" issue worked out (Test::CPANpm
> being part of the result), my packages build properly, but when I'm
> attempting to build a package that depends on a module::build subclass from
> antother package, I sometimes get this error:
> 
> Warning: builder subclass DBIx::Migration::Directories::Build doesn't seem
> to have been loaded from within /home/faraway/dev/Apache2-AUS at
> /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.7/Module/Build/Compat.pm line 56.
> 
> 	Well, of course it wasn't loaded from within that directory, it's
> part of another package. Is there some way I can tell Module::Build that
> this is expected normal behaviour?

Does the attached patch solve this issue... safely?

Randy.

[Module::Build] In _backticks(): multi-arg open not accepted by perl5.004 parser

[Randy W. S. <ml...@th...>]

randys@new-pieria:~/Module-Build$ ~/perl5.005/bin/perl5.00504 Build.PL

Too many arguments for open at lib/Module/Build/Base.pm line 355, near 
"@cmd or"BEGIN not safe after errors--compilation aborted at 
lib/Module/Build/Base.pm line 574.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at lib/Module/Build.pm line 14.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at Build.PL line 10.

Re: [Module::Build] M::B and no_index

[Randy W. S. <ml...@th...>]

Johan Vromans wrote:
> "Randy W. Sims" <ml...@th...> writes:
> 
> 
>>the build script should work fine without those changes. I just
>>remembered that we store the @INC and hard code it into the 'Build'
>>script.
> 
> 
>>use lib 'inc';
>>use Module::Build;
>>
>>...
>>
>>$builder->create_build_script();
> 
> 
> 1. Almost. For example, I use "use lib '.'" to get '.' as the first
>    location to try. In the default perl @INC, '.' is the last entry.
>    But since '.' occurs in the default @INC, it will not be written to
>    the Build script, and the effect of "use lib '.'" is lost.
> 
>    Now, I cannot imagine people deliberately mixing up @INC, but
>    putting '.' in front seems not uncommon to me. Why not change the
>    "push @INC ..." code to "@INC = ( ... )" and supply the exact
>    actual inc path?

I don't see any other way around this if we want to preserve order of 
@INC correctly. Either we restore the exact contents of @INC when 
running Build or if we think the @INC is going to have more additions 
beteen invokations we can do something like in the attached patch.

Any thoughts on this Ken?

Randy.

Re: [Module::Build] M::B and no_index

[Randy W. S. <ml...@th...>]

Johan Vromans wrote:
> "Randy W. Sims" <ml...@th...> writes:
> 
> 
>>the build script should work fine without those changes. I just
>>remembered that we store the @INC and hard code it into the 'Build'
>>script.
> 
> 
>>use lib 'inc';
>>use Module::Build;
>>
>>...
>>
>>$builder->create_build_script();
> 
> 
> 1. Almost. For example, I use "use lib '.'" to get '.' as the first
>    location to try. In the default perl @INC, '.' is the last entry.
>    But since '.' occurs in the default @INC, it will not be written to
>    the Build script, and the effect of "use lib '.'" is lost.
> 
>    Now, I cannot imagine people deliberately mixing up @INC, but
>    putting '.' in front seems not uncommon to me. Why not change the
>    "push @INC ..." code to "@INC = ( ... )" and supply the exact
>    actual inc path?

I don't see any other way around this if we want to preserve order of 
@INC correctly. Either we restore the exact contents of @INC when 
running Build or if we think the @INC is going to have more additions 
beteen invokations we can do something like in the attached patch.

Any thoughts on this Ken?

Randy.

Re: [Module::Build] Preserving files' executable bits, once more

[Randy W. S. <ml...@th...>]

Julian Mehnle wrote:
> Hi M::B developers,
> 
> in October 2004, I reported a bug that M::B wasn't preserving the 
> executable bits of files when creating a dist tarball (i.e. with the 
> "dist" action).[1]  The issue was resolved in M::B 0.27_01 by an addition 
> of chmodding code to the Module::Build::Base::ACTION_distdir() method.[2]
> 
> Now I'm experiencing a similar problem in a slightly different situation.  
> I have essentially the following in Build.PL:
> 
> | my $build = $class->new(
> |     ...
> |     install_path    => {
> |         ...
> |         'etc-global'    => '/etc'
> |     },
> |     misc_files      => {
> |         'misc/foo-bar'  => 'etc-global/foo/bar'
> |     },
> |     ...
> | );
> | 
> | $build->add_build_element('misc');
> 
> The intent is to install misc/foo-bar to /etc/foo/bar (with /etc/foo/ 
> belonging to another package and bar being a hook script), which basically 
> works ok.  misc/foo-bar has the executable bit set, however when the file 
> is copied to blib/etc-global/foo/bar, the x bit gets lost.
> 
> Is that by design?  If not, I hope this can be fixed before the release of 
> 0.28.

Borrowing code from ExtUtils::Install::install() and ::pm_to_blib(), the 
copy_if_modified() method now preserves file mode and timestamps. This 
is the method used throughout MB to copy files, so behavior should now 
be consistent throughout.

Randy.

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Ron S. <ro...@sa...>]

On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 11:10:59 +0200, Johan Vromans wrote:

Hi Johan

>> http://www.treepad.com/
>> OK, so it's not web-based...
>>
> Windows only, not Open Source, no thanks.

I understand you preference, and also agree (almost :-), but:

o There /is/ a Linux version

o There is a /freeware/ version

You just reacted too quickly to read the info carefully.

-- 
Cheers
Ron Savage, ro...@sa... on 9/04/2006
http://savage.net.au/index.html
Let the record show: Microsoft is not an Australian company

[Module::Build] Capturing test output to please CPANPLUS

[Randy W. S. <Ra...@Th...>]

Will something like this work for a temporary solution that we can maybe 
figure out how to extend in the future to always capture output?

It can be driven like so:

use Module::Build;

my $mb = Module::Build->new_from_context;
$mb->dispatch('build');

$ENV{PERL_MM_USE_DEFAULT} = 1; # or $ENV{PERL5_CPANPLUS_IS_RUNNING} = 1

eval{ $mb->dispatch('test') };

if ( $mb->test_captured ) {
   my $out = $mb->test_out;
   my $err = $mb->test_err;

   print <<"---";
output:
=======
$out

errors:
=======
$err
---
}

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Nadim K. <na...@kh...>]

On Saturday 08 April 2006 21.03, Eric Wilhelm wrote:

> >>   o offline mode ($svk++)
> >I agree on this one, though svk is not what I would call stable.
>
> You can sort of use svn offline.  The svk thing is just a bonus.  I
> haven't had any stability issues with it either.

Well I have send an error report to their mailling list. I don't appreciate 
when a CM tool deletes files that are not under CM control. It whiped my dev 
directory in one shot.

> >>   o ability to make edits from an editor
> >>     (aka:  your development environment)
> So, are you agreeing with me and just deriding my bookmarking skills or
> what?  :-)
I agree but I think you have no bookmarking skills =)

> Seriously, I seem to remember something about kwiki having a nice plugin
> mechanism, but I have yet to look into it and the mention of kwiki
> seems to make some people grimace.  Maybe wifty would be nifty.
Kwiki is, IMHO, broken. 5 sec to load an empty page from a server running on 
the same box is just not acceptable.

The one important thing, if you are going to write anything, is to handle page 
moving and keep the links in synch.

Cheers, Nadim.

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Eric W. <scr...@gm...>]

# from Nadim Khemir
# on Saturday 08 April 2006 11:40 am:

>you want to have a look at this one http://wikipediafs.sourceforge.net
>and this one http://nedko.arnaudov.name/soft/wikifs/wikifuse.py

Interesting, but the kernel module requirement means it won't work for 
all of the developers.  Yes, I suppose that the subversion server could 
connect this way, but that seems like a layer of glue that isn't 
needed.  The svn commit and conflict resolution model is fairly 
straightforward already.

>> For me at least, the headspace shift of having to open a browser,
>> load a page, login, etc. is enough to cause me to forget whatever it
>> was that I was going to post.
>
>arf!! make a short link to the page and let your browser remember

Yeah, there's also openid.  It's still a context shift and lacks the 
finger-feel of vim.  Then there is the page load time (even on dsl 
there is at least some latency.)  You might win the laziness contest, 
but don't get into an impatience joust with me :-)

(snipping out-of order)

>>   o offline mode ($svk++)
>I agree on this one, though svk is not what I would call stable.

You can sort of use svn offline.  The svk thing is just a bonus.  I 
haven't had any stability issues with it either.

>>   o ability to make edits from an editor
>>     (aka:  your development environment)
>I agree on this one too

So, are you agreeing with me and just deriding my bookmarking skills or 
what?  :-)

Seriously, I seem to remember something about kwiki having a nice plugin 
mechanism, but I have yet to look into it and the mention of kwiki 
seems to make some people grimace.  Maybe wifty would be nifty.

--Eric
-- 
"But as to modern architecture, let us drop it and let us take
modernistic out and shoot it at sunrise."
--F.L. Wright
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Nadim K. <na...@kh...>]

Hi, 
On Saturday 08 April 2006 18.10, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> # on Saturday 08 April 2006 07:58 am:
> >A wiki is not the siver bullet, one area that no wiki is good at is
> >reorganising pages.
>
> There's also the "type your page in this small box" syndrome, 
dokuwiki allows you to make the box smaller or bigger and a few other things 
like run you own php code to do what you please

> and the 
> troubles with unauthenticated access leading to viagrification,
most wikis have access control now.

> on top  of the aforementioned issue of not having offline access.
well, for few pages, use a local wiki that has the same markup as you "global" 
wiki. just synch by hand when online. If you modify a page that might be 
modified by someone else while you are editing offline, a simple scrap script 
and a kdiff3 session should fix that

> I'm thinking that a wiki that could be backended with a pile of YAML
> files in a subversion repository would be great.
>
>   o publicly visible info
>   o quick access via web terminals
>   o offline mode ($svk++)
I agree on this one, though svk is not what I would call stable.

>   o ability to make edits from an editor
>     (aka:  your development environment)
I agree on this one too


you want to have a look at this one http://wikipediafs.sourceforge.net

and this one http://nedko.arnaudov.name/soft/wikifs/wikifuse.py


>
> For me at least, the headspace shift of having to open a browser, load a
> page, login, etc. is enough to cause me to forget whatever it was that
> I was going to post.
arf!! make a short link to the page and let your browser remember your 
password. I'm more lazy than you are, don't try to prove the opposit  you'll 
loose, and I manage to use a wiki.

Cheers, Nadim

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Eric W. <scr...@gm...>]

# from Nadim Khemir
# on Saturday 08 April 2006 07:58 am:

>A wiki is not the siver bullet, one area that no wiki is good at is
>reorganising pages.

There's also the "type your page in this small box" syndrome, and the 
troubles with unauthenticated access leading to viagrification, on top 
of the aforementioned issue of not having offline access.

I'm thinking that a wiki that could be backended with a pile of YAML 
files in a subversion repository would be great.

  o publicly visible info
  o quick access via web terminals
  o offline mode ($svk++)
  o ability to make edits from an editor
    (aka:  your development environment)

For me at least, the headspace shift of having to open a browser, load a 
page, login, etc. is enough to cause me to forget whatever it was that 
I was going to post.

True, this doesn't solve the big todo-list problem, which is mostly that 
it is difficult to decide where to categorize something and/or how 
important it is.  It does add another "view" of the information, 
without strapping you into a silly web interface for adding quick notes 
or editing multiple pages.

It also probably doesn't work too well as a general-purpose wiki, though 
I suppose it is possible to add some mark(down|up) to it.

Basically, just a one-file per page like so:

----
  # make_todo_wiki.yml
  ---
  title: Make a TODO Wiki
  tags:
    - wiki
    - todo
    - web 2.0
  content: |
    I'm thinking that a wiki that could be backended with a pile of YAML
    files in a subversion repository would be great.
  
      o publicly visible info
      o quick access via web terminals
      o offline mode ($svk++)
      o ability to make edits from an editor
        (aka:  your development environment)
----

It seems that the necessary components are already available?  Add glue, 
server, and documentation?

--Eric
-- 
Issues of control, repair, improvement, cost, or just plain
understandability all come down strongly in favor of open source
solutions to complex problems of any sort.
--Robert G. Brown
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Nadim K. <na...@kh...>]

On Saturday 08 April 2006 02.55, Randy W. Sims wrote:
> I don't know what to do.
> ...
> The mailing-list is good for some of that, but it's hard to use as a
> reference. A wiki seems perfect for this type of thing.

I've use a wiki to put down idea etc before and it worked fine. We've just 
starting using a wiki and an IRC channel for the next version of our build 
system and it works nice (well I would like the others to use it more but 
they like throwing ideas up and let me write them down)

I've spend a week-end looking around at what to use. I recommend 'dokuwiki'. 
Kwiki is unfortunately completely unusable because of it's speed. I use 
gentoo and everything installed in 5 mn. It's very complete too.

A wiki is not the siver bullet, one area that no wiki is good at is 
reorganising pages.

I agree RT would have been nice but it is not good enough, It's difficult to 
organise things hierarchically and the visual part is not as attractive as a 
wiki. The RT on CPAN is also too slow.

> If nothing else, I could try to set one up on my site, but I think
> Earthlink only has perl 5.004. I really need to find another host.
Or run your own server. Maybe someone would put up a wiki for M::B whith a 
"private" area.


Cheers, Nadim.

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Randy W. S. <ml...@th...>]

Johan Vromans wrote:
> "Randy W. Sims" <Ra...@Th...> writes:
> 
> 
>>But my Treo is falling apart after only an year and half of use (no
>>more Treos, maybe RIM?), ... Now I've lost it.
> 
> 
> You do have a backup, don't you? Anyone with a Treo compatible PDA
> could help you restore it...

I haven't lost anything from my Treo; I still have it. (I would rather 
have lost it though.) It's the notebook that I lost, and it had a couple 
of months of notes in it which I'm now missing. =(

Randy.

[Module::Build] ask() and you will receive

[Randy W. S. <Ra...@Th...>]

Attached is version of the ask() routine discussed earlier to supersede 
or augment prompt() and y_n(), including pod. I extracted it directly 
out of my working copy of MB and put it in its own package to make it 
easier to demo for feedback. It would go in MB along with prompt() and 
y_n() if we decide to use it.

Here is a sample driver:

use Prompter;

my $answer;
$answer = Prompter->ask(
     prompt  => "What is your favorite programming language?\n",
     options => [qw(Perl Ruby Lua Python C C++)],
     default => 'unknown',
     show_options => 1,
     show_default => 0,
);

print "Answer: $answer\n";

__END__

Please see `perldoc Prompter.pm` for docs.

Randy.

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Johan V. <jvr...@sq...>]

Ron Savage <ro...@sa...> writes:

> http://www.treepad.com/
> OK, so it's not web-based...

Windows only, not Open Source, no thanks.

-- Johan

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[Johan V. <jvr...@sq...>]

"Randy W. Sims" <Ra...@Th...> writes:

> But my Treo is falling apart after only an year and half of use (no
> more Treos, maybe RIM?), ... Now I've lost it.

You do have a backup, don't you? Anyone with a Treo compatible PDA
could help you restore it...

-- Johan

Re: [Module::Build] What to do? What to do?

[David G. <da...@hy...>]

Randy W. Sims wrote:
> The mailing-list is good for some of that, but it's hard to use as a 
> reference. A wiki seems perfect for this type of thing.
> 
> If nothing else, I could try to set one up on my site, but I think 
> Earthlink only has perl 5.004. I really need to find another host.

I've had similar questions about what to do.  I currently keep a lot of 
my "organized" todo lists in a program called LifeBalance 
(http://www.llamagraphics.com/) that syncs between my laptop and my treo 
phone.

I also keep a Moleskine square-ruled pocket notebook 
(http://www.moleskine.co.uk/styles/) for more random jottings.  I wind 
up doing a lot of brainstorming on the subway and use that to jot ideas 
down.  A friend turned me onto it as a gift and I was skeptical at 
first, because I've never been one to keep a journal, but it's small 
enough to fit in the back pocket of jeans or a jacket pocket.  I get my 
replacements at Barnes & Noble.  Many of my recent modules 
(Class::InsideOut, File::pushd, ToolSet) were pretty much sketched out 
in first-draft form in it on the subway earlier this year.

I've thought about using a wiki from time to time, but I'm often on the 
road with no net access -- until I find/write a wiki that works 
replicates between online/offline mode (say, using SVK/subversion as a 
back-end) I don't know that that will work for me.

If I didn't travel as much, I'd consider some of the web-based solutions 
like Voo2do or some of the 37Signals stuff. (http://www.37signals.com/ 
and http://voo2do.com/)

As for hosting, the catalyst web site has some suggestions that seem 
relatively perl-friendly.

Regards,
David Golden