[Module-build-general] Fw: Re: Module::Build::Compat should not recommend not having a Makefile.PL

[Benjamin J. T. <ben...@op...>]

I am forwarding this message as requested by Ken.  I am not on the
Module::Build list, so please keep me in the CC list.

My perspective is that CPAN authors should make at least a token nod
towards attempting to be compatible with existing installations.  For
the forseeable future a significant fraction of the installed Perl
base will be using versions of Perl and CPAN which will break if
Makefile.PL is not present.  Attempting to force them to change that
decision (which may be made for many reasons, and at many sites is
NOT a programmer-level decision) will create a certain level of
knee-jerk resentment and ill-will.  I see no good reason to encourage
this kind of problem.  My opinion is that attempts to shove a better
way down people's throats is a good way to feel like you really tried
while accomplishing negative work.

Speaking personally, when there is an accepted standard way of doing
things, I tend to look with extreme suspicion on anyone who tells me
that I need to do things their own, newfangled way.  It would not be
inaccurate to read that as, "I reject them out of hand until someone I
trust tells me to reconsider."  I believe that this approach is fairly
common.  And it is what I did when I heard about Module::Build.

But now that I have reconsidered it, I can see benefits of using
Module::Build.  I intend to update my handful of modules to use it as a
convenience to potential Windows users.  However I see no reason to
penalize people who aren't playing with the latest shiny toys, and so
will use the backwards compatibility tool.  And I would encourage
others to do the same.

In short, encouraging people to use Module::Build and
Module::Build::Compat so that their modules will install easily for the
widest range of possible users seems like an effective way to advocate
Module::Build.  Encouraging arguments by trying to break people who have
not been following the latest "cool stuff" discussions in the Perl world
is an effective way to leave bad tastes in people's mouths.  Therefore I
think that it would be good if Module::Build::Compat's documentation and
Module::Build's proponent's advocacy recommended that authors try to do
what will be compatible with the largest number of possible users.

Regards,
Ben

----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Williams <ke...@ma...>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:20:05 -0500
To: "Benjamin J. Tilly " <ben...@op...>
Subject: Re: Module::Build::Compat should not recommend not having a Makefile.PL

> Hi Ben,
> 
> Could you send a message (or forward this one) to the Module::Build 
> list, mod...@li... , so that we could 
> discuss the matter?  I'm inclined to keep the recommendation the same 
> way I have it and to work on patching CPAN.pm, but if more others feel 
> differently I could be persuaded otherwise.
> 
>   -Ken
> 
> On Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 07:29  AM, Benjamin J. Tilly wrote:
> 
> > While I appreciate that Module::Build was a lot of work and is trying 
> > to
> > solve an important problem (making it simple to build standard Perl
> > modules on non-Unixy platforms), it will cause problems if module
> > authors break backwards compatibility with the vast majority of current
> > users of CPAN, and it is counterproductive to encourage them to do so.
> >
> > Therefore please modify the documentation for Module::Build::Compat to
> > have it stop discouraging people from using it to get backwards
> > compatibility with the existing installed base.
> >
> > For more on this see the discussion starting at
> > http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=292164.  (This email is the 
> > one
> > that I said I would send at 
> > http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=292366.)
> >
> > Ben
>