mnemosyne-proj-users — NO LONGER IN USE

Re: [Mnemosyne-proj-users] Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project (continued from the memaid_devel mailinglist)

[Renderwahn <ren...@we...>]

Finaly i got it working with the cvs version and i tested it a bit. Now
there is another problem. When there are many cards added with
vice-versa checked, it often happens that the 5 new cards wich are
presented contain a card and the vice versa card. This is really
annoying. If i just had one side of a card it's useles to see the
otherside next. A skip button or somthing like that would be nice.
Expect of this nasty flow the new feature is realy great.

Nils

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 12:46:04 +0100
Peter Bienstman <Pet...@ug...> wrote:

> On Saturday 11 February 2006 12:22, Renderwahn wrote:
> > Doesn't work for me. I installed the cvs version and created a new
> > set by just adding numbers from 1-20. They were all shown to me.
> 
> Anonymous CVS always lags behind developer CVS, sometimes by as much
> as a day.
> 
> The ciritical thing is that rebuild_revision_queue in core.py has a
> line that  looks like:
> 
>         grade_0 = [i for i in not_memorised if i.grade == 0][0:5]
> 
> Otherwise, you still have the old version.
> 
> Note that just that fix is not enough, I've made other changes since
> that.
> 
> > About your concerns to clutter up the UI. If you add an advanced
> > options tab or somthing similar to the config dialog it would not be
> > a big mess. Maybe you are going to add more options in the future
> > and than you will have to reorganize the options anyway. Because of
> > the diffrent learning ability of each user it is maybe advantageous
> > making it configurable. Though i'm not sure about this. Optimal
> > would be to raise and lower the number automatic depending on the
> > learning speed of the user.
> 
> OK, I'll think about what to do best.
> 
> Peter

Re: [Mnemosyne-proj-users] mnemosyne is cool + future stats

[Peter B. <Pet...@ug...>]

On Sunday 12 February 2006 02:14, Bruno Vernier wrote:
> Thanks Peter for letting me know about this new mailing list... here i am
>
> :-)
>
> for the record, what I currently like about mnemosyne (after 2 days of
> use):
>
> 1. clean and simple interface and coding style
> 2. no more mysterious algorithms for calculating  intervals
> 3. learn ahead button
> 4. some HTML syntax allowed
> 5. unicode

Glad you like it!

> 6. the stub for CGI which i noticed in CVS today ... gives me hope that we
> can write a web-based version of mnemosyne (so we can use a greater subset
> of HTML)=20

It's not a stub, it's the server side code for the uploading of logs.=20
Personally, I'm not interested in writing a web-based version, but feel fre=
e=20
to delve into that if you want.

> and which would include the multiple-item editing (grep on a=20
> keyword, present all items containing that item, allow mass editing on the
> web)

These options would be useful for the standalone version too.

> 7. it is easy to add new features, specifically future-looking statistics
> (how many items will I have in 1 day, 2 days, 3 days, 10 dyas, 100 days,
> 1000 days)... here is how i did it:
>
> I created two new function based on ones that are already there but adding
> one more parameter called "days":
>
> def scheduled_items_in(days):
>     return sum(1 for i in items if i.is_due_for_retention_rep_in(days))
>
>
> def is_due_for_retention_rep_in(self, days):
>      return (self.grade >=3D 2) and (self.cat.active =3D=3D True) and \
>                (time_of_start.days_since() >=3D self.next_rep - days)

Good suggestion! Instead of creating new functions, I've modified the exist=
ing=20
functions to take an extra 'days' argument which defaults to zero.

> and modified this one so that the bottom of my mnemosyne window shows me
> the future stats:
>
> def updateStatusBar(self):
>         self.sched .setText("Scheduled: "     + str(scheduled_items()) + "
> "+\
>                          str(scheduled_items_in(1))+" "+\
>                          str(scheduled_items_in(2) -
> scheduled_items_in(1))+" "+\
>                          str(scheduled_items_in(3) -
> scheduled_items_in(2))+" X:"+\
>
> str(scheduled_items_in(10))+" C:"+\
>
> str(scheduled_items_in(100))+" "+\
>
> str(scheduled_items_in(365))+" M:"+\
>
> str(scheduled_items_in(1000))+" "\
>                                                 )
>         self.notmem.setText("Not: " + str(non_memorised_items()))
> #        self.notmem.setText("Not memorised: " +
> str(non_memorised_items())) self.all   .setText("All: "           +
> str(number_of_items()))

If you don't mind, I've not added this patch, because at the moment I think=
=20
this info would be better shown in a separate dialog window.

But one of the nice things about open source is that you can easily create=
=20
small customisations for your own local version ;-)

Thanks for the feedback!

Peter

=2D-=20
=2D-----------------------------------------------
Peter Bienstman
Ghent University, Dept. of Information Technology
Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41, B-9000 Gent, Belgium
tel: +32 9 264 34 45, fax: +32 9 264 35 93
WWW: http://photonics.intec.UGent.be
email: Peter.Bienstman@UGent.be
=2D-----------------------------------------------

[Mnemosyne-proj-users] mnemosyne is cool + future stats

[Bruno V. <br...@vs...>]

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Re: [Mnemosyne-proj-users] Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project (continued from the memaid_devel mailinglist)

[Peter B. <Pet...@ug...>]

On Saturday 11 February 2006 12:22, Renderwahn wrote:
> Doesn't work for me. I installed the cvs version and created a new set
> by just adding numbers from 1-20. They were all shown to me.

Anonymous CVS always lags behind developer CVS, sometimes by as much as a d=
ay.

The ciritical thing is that rebuild_revision_queue in core.py has a line th=
at=20
looks like:

        grade_0 =3D [i for i in not_memorised if i.grade =3D=3D 0][0:5]

Otherwise, you still have the old version.

Note that just that fix is not enough, I've made other changes since that.

> About your concerns to clutter up the UI. If you add an advanced options
> tab or somthing similar to the config dialog it would not be a big mess.
> Maybe you are going to add more options in the future and than you will
> have to reorganize the options anyway. Because of the diffrent learning
> ability of each user it is maybe advantageous making it configurable.
> Though i'm not sure about this. Optimal would be to raise and lower the
> number automatic depending on the learning speed of the user.

OK, I'll think about what to do best.

Peter

=2D-=20
=2D-----------------------------------------------
Peter Bienstman
Ghent University, Dept. of Information Technology
Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41, B-9000 Gent, Belgium
tel: +32 9 264 34 45, fax: +32 9 264 35 93
WWW: http://photonics.intec.UGent.be
email: Peter.Bienstman@UGent.be
=2D-----------------------------------------------

Re: [Mnemosyne-proj-users] Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project (continued from the memaid_devel mailinglist)

[Renderwahn <ren...@we...>]

Doesn't work for me. I installed the cvs version and created a new set
by just adding numbers from 1-20. They were all shown to me.

About your concerns to clutter up the UI. If you add an advanced options
tab or somthing similar to the config dialog it would not be a big mess.
Maybe you are going to add more options in the future and than you will
have to reorganize the options anyway. Because of the diffrent learning
ability of each user it is maybe advantageous making it configurable.
Though i'm not sure about this. Optimal would be to raise and lower the
number automatic depending on the learning speed of the user. 

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:46:55 +0100
Peter Bienstman <Pet...@ug...> wrote:

> OK, CVS now contains a patch where only 5 items at a time from grade 0
> are  thrown into the learning process.
> 
> It was actually ridiculously easy to implement, only 5 *characters* of
> 
> code ;-)
> 
> If possible, I'd rather rather not make this user configurable, to
> avoid  cluttering up the interface.
> 
> So, no need anymore for an xml-splitting utility ;-)
> 
> Peter

Re: [Mnemosyne-proj-users] Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project (continued from the memaid_devel mailinglist)

[Peter B. <Pet...@ug...>]

OK, CVS now contains a patch where only 5 items at a time from grade 0 are=
=20
thrown into the learning process.

It was actually ridiculously easy to implement, only 5 *characters* of=20
code ;-)

If possible, I'd rather rather not make this user configurable, to avoid=20
cluttering up the interface.

So, no need anymore for an xml-splitting utility ;-)

Peter

On Saturday 11 February 2006 08:47, Peter Bienstman wrote:
> You are absolutely right that even splitting xml files is not the most
> elegant solution.
>
> I plan to implement that at most X unlearned items from the database are
> put in the revision queue at once, and that these are always taken from t=
he
> front of the database. That should get the behaviour you want.
>
> Question is, how large should X be? 5? 10? Or should it be user
> configurable?
>
> Peter
>
> On Friday 10 February 2006 22:48, Renderwahn wrote:
> > I'm sorry for the previous mail, i accidently hit the send button 0o
> > On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:48:47 +0100
> >
> > Yes you are right, the most things are allready there. By looking to
> > close at Pauker i got distrected from the features allready implemented
> > in mnemosyne. But for me one problem remains. If i add many new cards or
> > open a databse from someone else with lots of entries, the frequency of
> > each new item is very low. If i understand it right you want to solve
> > this by splitting up the data in severel xml files? Then i had to manage
> > those files on my own. Are those seperate files merged with the
> > scheduled itemes? Wouldn't it be much nicer to let the software add new
> > entries to the scheduled list? That was what i wanted to say in the
> > first message. Add all new entries and new imported flashcards to a
> > database that is seperated from the database with the scheduled items
> > and from time to time some items are moved from the new db to the
> > scheduled. The user or a nifty algorithim could decide how fast the
> > itemes are flow from one side to the other.
> >
> > Hopefully this time the explanation is more usefull.
> >
> > Nils
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log
> > files for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that
> > makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD
> > SPLUNK!
> > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D103432&bid=3D230486&dat=
=3D121642
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mnemosyne-proj-users mailing list
> > Mne...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mnemosyne-proj-users

=2D-=20
=2D-----------------------------------------------
Peter Bienstman
Ghent University, Dept. of Information Technology
Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41, B-9000 Gent, Belgium
tel: +32 9 264 34 45, fax: +32 9 264 35 93
WWW: http://photonics.intec.UGent.be
email: Peter.Bienstman@UGent.be
=2D-----------------------------------------------

Re: [Mnemosyne-proj-users] Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project (continued from the memaid_devel mailinglist)

[Peter B. <Pet...@ug...>]

You are absolutely right that even splitting xml files is not the most eleg=
ant=20
solution.

I plan to implement that at most X unlearned items from the database are pu=
t=20
in the revision queue at once, and that these are always taken from the fro=
nt=20
of the database. That should get the behaviour you want.

Question is, how large should X be? 5? 10? Or should it be user configurabl=
e?

Peter

On Friday 10 February 2006 22:48, Renderwahn wrote:
> I'm sorry for the previous mail, i accidently hit the send button 0o
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:48:47 +0100
>
> Yes you are right, the most things are allready there. By looking to
> close at Pauker i got distrected from the features allready implemented
> in mnemosyne. But for me one problem remains. If i add many new cards or
> open a databse from someone else with lots of entries, the frequency of
> each new item is very low. If i understand it right you want to solve
> this by splitting up the data in severel xml files? Then i had to manage
> those files on my own. Are those seperate files merged with the
> scheduled itemes? Wouldn't it be much nicer to let the software add new
> entries to the scheduled list? That was what i wanted to say in the
> first message. Add all new entries and new imported flashcards to a
> database that is seperated from the database with the scheduled items
> and from time to time some items are moved from the new db to the
> scheduled. The user or a nifty algorithim could decide how fast the
> itemes are flow from one side to the other.
>
> Hopefully this time the explanation is more usefull.
>
> Nils
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log
> files for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D103432&bid=3D230486&dat=
=3D121642
> _______________________________________________
> Mnemosyne-proj-users mailing list
> Mne...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mnemosyne-proj-users

=2D-=20
=2D-----------------------------------------------
Peter Bienstman
Ghent University, Dept. of Information Technology
Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41, B-9000 Gent, Belgium
tel: +32 9 264 34 45, fax: +32 9 264 35 93
WWW: http://photonics.intec.UGent.be
email: Peter.Bienstman@UGent.be
=2D-----------------------------------------------

Re: [Mnemosyne-proj-users] Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project (continued from the memaid_devel mailinglist)

[Renderwahn <ren...@we...>]

I'm sorry for the previous mail, i accidently hit the send button 0o
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:48:47 +0100
Peter Bienstman <Pet...@ug...> wrote:

> I have the impression that in essence the things you want are already
> there,  it perhaps just a matter of getting used to the meaning of the
> grades and  translating them to the terminology of ultra-short term,
> short term and long  term stacks that Pauker uses.

Yes you are right, the most things are allready there. By looking to
close at Pauker i got distrected from the features allready implemented
in mnemosyne. But for me one problem remains. If i add many new cards or
open a databse from someone else with lots of entries, the frequency of
each new item is very low. If i understand it right you want to solve
this by splitting up the data in severel xml files? Then i had to manage
those files on my own. Are those seperate files merged with the
scheduled itemes? Wouldn't it be much nicer to let the software add new
entries to the scheduled list? That was what i wanted to say in the
first message. Add all new entries and new imported flashcards to a
database that is seperated from the database with the scheduled items
and from time to time some items are moved from the new db to the
scheduled. The user or a nifty algorithim could decide how fast the
itemes are flow from one side to the other.

Hopefully this time the explanation is more usefull. 

Nils 

Re: [Mnemosyne-proj-users] Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project (continued from the memaid_devel mailinglist)

[Renderwahn <ren...@we...>]

Re: [Mnemosyne-proj-users] Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project (continued from the memaid_devel mailinglist)

[Peter B. <Pet...@ug...>]

On Friday 10 February 2006 18:46, Renderwahn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i also believe Mnemosyne hase some shortage when it comes to learn new
> flashcards. I guess the algorythem works nice for the longterm
> memorization but seems to be  suboptimal when it comes to new items that
> are added to the database. As you allready have stated, it is a problem
> when you have added many new items to the database because they won't
> show up often enough to efficiently memorize them.=20

Wouldn't the problem be solved if you just make sure that you don't try to=
=20
learn too many items all at once?

> When learning=20
> somthing for the first time i like the cardbox system that pauker
> (http://pauker.sourceforge.net/) uses. An implementation of this strategy
> in Mnemosyne could probably look like this:
> All new cards first go to a pool of unlearned cards. Some of them, maybe
> 5, are randomly selected and placed in a "to learn" stack. Those cards
> are presented to the user who tries to memorize them. After he got the
> cards shown those cards are prompted. If he knows the right answer the
> card goes to the shortterm memory stack,=20

This is what happens if you use grade 1 (if you think you won't remember it=
=20
for more than a day) or grade 2 (if you thing you will remember for more th=
an=20
a day).

> if he can't remember the answer it stays in the to learn stack.=20

That's grade 0.

> Now the to-learn stack is filled with=20
> new cards and is shown and questioned again. This goes on for either a
> specific time or until the shortterm stack reaches a maximum number of
> cards. Now the shortterm stack will be prompted, with a wrong answer the
> card stays there, with a right one it now is passed to the currently
> used mechanisem of Mnemosyne. Now it starts over again until the
> shortterm memory stack is filled again

Isn't grade 1 a bit like the short term stack you mention? It's for items t=
hat=20
are more familiar then grade 0.

> The advantage of this system would be, that new cards are really often
> presented and Mnemosyne probably could calculaty a more accurate time
> for new cards because of the data collected during the shortterm
> memorization. If a card had to be shown often to get out of the
> shortterm stack it has to be presented very soon, if it only was once in
> the stack, it should be ok to present it maybe 2 days later.

This is already done in the current version.

> And all during this learning process of new cards you could query some
> of the old cards.

This is exactly what happens now: the scheduled items are asked first.

Note that the old Memaid didn't really have a good mechanism to learn items=
=20
for the first time, but in Mnemosyne I've tried to remedy that by redefinin=
g=20
the meaning of grades 0,1 and 2.

I have the impression that in essence the things you want are already there=
,=20
it perhaps just a matter of getting used to the meaning of the grades and=20
translating them to the terminology of ultra-short term, short term and lon=
g=20
term stacks that Pauker uses.

But do correct me if I'm wrong!

Thanks for the feedback!

Peter

=2D-----------------------------------------------
Peter Bienstman
Ghent University, Dept. of Information Technology
Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41, B-9000 Gent, Belgium
tel: +32 9 264 34 45, fax: +32 9 264 35 93
WWW: http://photonics.intec.UGent.be
email: Peter.Bienstman@UGent.be
=2D-----------------------------------------------

[Mnemosyne-proj-users] Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project (continued from the memaid_devel mailinglist)

[Renderwahn <ren...@we...>]

Hi,

i also believe Mnemosyne hase some shortage when it comes to learn new
flashcards. I guess the algorythem works nice for the longterm
memorization but seems to be  suboptimal when it comes to new items that
are added to the database. As you allready have stated, it is a problem
when you have added many new items to the database because they won't
show up often enough to efficiently memorize them. When learning
somthing for the first time i like the cardbox system that pauker
(http://pauker.sourceforge.net/) uses. An implementation of this strategy
in Mnemosyne could probably look like this:
All new cards first go to a pool of unlearned cards. Some of them, maybe
5, are randomly selected and placed in a "to learn" stack. Those cards
are presented to the user who tries to memorize them. After he got the
cards shown those cards are prompted. If he knows the right answer the
card goes to the shortterm memory stack, if he can't remember the answer
it stays in the to learn stack. Now the to-learn stack is filled with
new cards and is shown and questioned again. This goes on for either a
specific time or until the shortterm stack reaches a maximum number of
cards. Now the shortterm stack will be prompted, with a wrong answer the
card stays there, with a right one it now is passed to the currently
used mechanisem of Mnemosyne. Now it starts over again until the
shortterm memory stack is filled again.
The advantage of this system would be, that new cards are really often
presented and Mnemosyne probably could calculaty a more accurate time
for new cards because of the data collected during the shortterm
memorization. If a card had to be shown often to get out of the
shortterm stack it has to be presented very soon, if it only was once in
the stack, it should be ok to present it maybe 2 days later.
And all during this learning process of new cards you could query some
of the old cards.

I hope my explanation was understandable with my poor english ;)
and thanks for the great software.

Nils


>>From: Peter Bienstman <Peter@ug...>ent.be>
>>Re: Announcing the Mnemosyne Project  
>>2006-02-10 08:34

>Glad you like it!
>
>Thinking about it some more, I'm personally not convinced that is the
>best  approach to the problem. When memorising more than 1 item, I need
>to review  it more than once before I know it, and if the queue
>contains 1000 items, it 

>will take too long before that item shows up again.
>
>Therefore, I will write a small utility to split up a big XML file in
>small  'lessons' containing e.g. 25 items each. That way, I can import
>one lesson at  the time.
>
>The tool should be in the next release.
>
>Peter
>
>(PS: please send discussion on Mnemosyne to its own mailing lists)
 

>On Friday 10 February 2006 01:37, Tiago Silva wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I tried it out on my linux machine and it worked perfectly. The
> unlearned items list really makes a difference, now I can add a
> massive amount of data at once, and memorize what I want when I want,
> without worrying about it screwing up with the scheduling algorithm.
> Apparently all works correctly, I imported the data from pyqt-memaid
> and no problem arised.
>
> Great work =D
>
> Best regards,
> Tiago Silva
>
> On 2/8/06, Peter Bienstman <Pet...@ug...> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I've made a first limited release of the successor to pyqt-memaid
> > that I first
> > discussed here:
> >
> > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=8768378&forum_id=3
> >5119
> >
> > You can find the new program at
> > http://mnemosyne-proj.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > So far, it is only announced to this mailing list, as I first would
> > like some
> > more feedback before I release it to a wider audience.
> >
> > The software has all the features of pyqt-memaid + some more + some
> > polish in
> > the user interface. Still missing is the superkaramba client, but
> > that will
> > follow shortly.
> >
> > These are the things I still want to do before a 1.0 release:
> >
> > -Add the superkaramba client
> > -Improve the website (graphics)
> > -Release a utility script to split a large xml file into a set of
> > files containing e.g. 25 questions each
> >
> > After 1.0, I want to start working on adding sound.
> >
> > Please note that this is also the end of the MemAid project. Further
> > announcements will only be made on the Mnemosyne mailing lists, so
> > please subscribe to those if you are interested (it might take
> > another day before these become active, though).
> >
> > Please test the software, and send all feedback to me.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Peter

-- 
------------------------------------------------
Peter Bienstman
Ghent University, Dept. of Information Technology
Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41, B-9000 Gent, Belgium
tel: +32 9 264 34 45, fax: +32 9 264 35 93
WWW: http://photonics.intec.UGent.be
email: Peter.Bienstman@UGent.be
------------------------------------------------