mlgame-devel

Re: [Mlgame-devel] TODO

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 at 02:34:08PM +0100, =A3ukasz Lew wrote:
> >   use SDL_gft for antialliased lines
> SDL_gfx
>=20
> We should concentrate on a community, users.
> (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/in=
dex.html)
>=20
> >From the point of new user most important is:
> 1. Write tutorial.
> a) Write incremental examples
> b) Make it easy (describe in tutorial) to make a new project (Makefiles=
)
>=20
> 2. Do everything to make the design of MLG clear.
>    Can merging widgets and console and menus help?
>=20
> Regards,
> Lukasz

And thats also good to get more users.
But it's not very pleasant work (at least for me).
I prefer the "more features -> more users" approach.
But Quality Assurance is important, and you should check it :)

Re: [Mlgame-devel] TODO

[<luk...@gm...>]

>   use SDL_gft for antialliased lines
SDL_gfx

We should concentrate on a community, users.
(http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/index.=
html)

From the point of new user most important is:
1. Write tutorial.
a) Write incremental examples
b) Make it easy (describe in tutorial) to make a new project (Makefiles)

2. Do everything to make the design of MLG clear.
   Can merging widgets and console and menus help?

Regards,
Lukasz

On 12/11/05, Domin <dsi...@gm...> wrote:
> I'm posting the todo here, so we can discuss priorities. I'm afraid
> that without it we would tend to spend time fixing rather unimportant
> issues, like fixing some /Unsupported games, and not making any real
> progress.
>
> Complete Docs/FAQ.
>
> Parser:
>   Writing bindings and aliases to file.
>
> Net variables:
>   Automatic actualization on newly connected clients.
>
> Net:
>   Player nicks.
>   Maybe 'init' should take two functions?
>   Server migration
>   Privileged clients do commands on server remotely
>   `kick` server command.
>
> Console:
>   Size variable (not necessary with widgets)
>   Frame toggleable, changeable (widgets)
>   Split log and command_line
>
> Font:
>   colors for special characters.
>
> Fixed point arithmetics
>
> Animations: lists/tables/functions: design.
>
> Exgen:
>   Explosion compression.
>
>
>           Move to MLG?
>
> Video:
>   Bezier curves
>   use SDL_gft for antialliased lines
>   make a file explaining project decisions
>
> Windows bugs (waiting for windows programer):
>   'make clean' does not find '.exe' or '.exe.stackdump' files
>   Toggling fullscreen runtime sometimes destroys bitmask or fails
>
> eLeL once wanted to do this, but he is playing GO nowdays:
>   Do general cleaning
>   Check all the exception
>   Look for data in executable subdirectory
>
> Widgets:
>   Review design
>   Move to MLG, standard console should be a widget
>   Input modes have some in common with widgets. Should they be widgets?
>   mouse support
>
> Some other issues:
>
> Compiling with gl is mentioned as hard. Whats the problem. Do I
> remember correctly, that per pixel collisions, and mask cutting does
> not work with gl? Does current sdl version still require separate
> compilation for gl and non-gl?
>
> I think that commands added to some parser by a module should be
> described in their .mli After all, they are part of its interface.
>
> regars
>  Domin
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log fi=
les
> for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id=16865&opclick
> _______________________________________________
> Mlgame-devel mailing list
> Mlg...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mlgame-devel
>

Re: [Mlgame-devel] TODO

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 at 02:00:30PM +0100, Domin wrote:
> I'm posting the todo here, so we can discuss priorities. I'm afraid
> that without it we would tend to spend time fixing rather unimportant
> issues, like fixing some /Unsupported games, and not making any real
> progress.

Update /Unsupported games
    (This morning I checked that all of them work, I think this is sufficient)

Documentation
  Complete Docs/FAQ
  Write a Tutorial
    (I don't care, but I know eLeL does really so at some point...)
  
  Describe project decisions
    (Important when we take them, now hard since we don't remember)

  Parser:
    Writing bindings and aliases to file.
    Parser with new syntax, some scripting language
    (I don't care for the moment)
 
  Net variables:
    Automatic actualization on newly connected clients.
    (Far future)
 
  Net:
    Player nicks.
    Maybe 'init' should take two functions?
    Server migration
    Privileged clients do commands on server remotely
    `kick` server command.
    (No real network usage, so I think it also goes far away)
 
  Console:
    Size variable (not necessary with widgets)
    Frame toggleable, changeable (widgets)
    Split log and command_line
    (This is only cosmetic, leave it)
 
  Font:
    colors for special characters.
    (Also cosmetic)
 
  Fixed point arithmetics
    (Does anyone need it??)
  
  Animations: lists/tables/functions: design.
    (What we have is sufficient)
 
  Exgen:
    Explosion compression.
      (Whatever)
    Some progressbar
      (VERY important in my opinion)
    Move to MLG?
      (I wanted to use explosions but with a colorkey in magiccarpet
      ( and after generation and png-compression I'm happy without
      (the generator builtin, since they are small, but in general this
      (is a good direction)

  Video:
    Bezier curves
    use SDL_gft for antialliased lines
    (Pfff)

  Windows bugs (waiting for windows programer):
    Toggling fullscreen runtime sometimes destroys bitmask or fails
    (It is possible that it works with contexts)
 
  eLeL once wanted to do this, but he is playing GO nowdays:
    Do general cleaning
    Check all the exception
    Look for data in executable subdirectory
    (ELeL? I think we can leave it in todo for better times)
 
  Widgets:
    Review design
    (I think it's important. eLeL, your help here?)
    Move to MLG, standard console should be a widget
    (Yes)
    Input modes have some in common with widgets. Should they be widgets?
    mouse support
    (Important!)
 
  Some other issues:

  Compiling with gl is mentioned as hard. Whats the problem. Do I
  remember correctly, that per pixel collisions, and mask cutting does
  not work with gl? Does current sdl version still require separate
  compilation for gl and non-gl?
    (You need to manually compile ocaml-sdl with replaced SDL headers)
    (Then with MLG it is simple, you just do --enable-sdl-gl)
    (And yes, per-pixel collisions and digging holes is lost with it)

  I think that commands added to some parser by a module should be
  described in their .mli After all, they are part of its interface.
    (I am for it, but as a part of documentation, not very willing to do it..) 

[Mlgame-devel] TODO

[Domin <dsi...@gm...>]

I'm posting the todo here, so we can discuss priorities. I'm afraid
that without it we would tend to spend time fixing rather unimportant
issues, like fixing some /Unsupported games, and not making any real
progress.

Complete Docs/FAQ.

Parser:
  Writing bindings and aliases to file.

Net variables:
  Automatic actualization on newly connected clients.

Net:
  Player nicks.
  Maybe 'init' should take two functions?
  Server migration
  Privileged clients do commands on server remotely
  `kick` server command.

Console:
  Size variable (not necessary with widgets)
  Frame toggleable, changeable (widgets)
  Split log and command_line

Font:
  colors for special characters.

Fixed point arithmetics

Animations: lists/tables/functions: design.

Exgen:
  Explosion compression.
                                                                     =20
                                                                     =20
          Move to MLG?

Video:
  Bezier curves
  use SDL_gft for antialliased lines
  make a file explaining project decisions

Windows bugs (waiting for windows programer):
  'make clean' does not find '.exe' or '.exe.stackdump' files
  Toggling fullscreen runtime sometimes destroys bitmask or fails

eLeL once wanted to do this, but he is playing GO nowdays:
  Do general cleaning
  Check all the exception
  Look for data in executable subdirectory

Widgets:
  Review design
  Move to MLG, standard console should be a widget
  Input modes have some in common with widgets. Should they be widgets?
  mouse support

Some other issues:

Compiling with gl is mentioned as hard. Whats the problem. Do I
remember correctly, that per pixel collisions, and mask cutting does
not work with gl? Does current sdl version still require separate
compilation for gl and non-gl?

I think that commands added to some parser by a module should be
described in their .mli After all, they are part of its interface.

regars
 Domin

Re: [Mlgame-devel] Cygwin

[Domin <dsi...@gm...>]
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Re: [Mlgame-devel] Cygwin

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 08:52:41PM +0100, Domin wrote:
> Dunno.
> I think that a windows user that wants to compile is familiar with unzipping.
But with what does he ungzip?

> [...]
> It is done.
So I'll try to get the winexec

> Talking about TODO, we should make a list and set priorities.

The TODO in CVS is ok, we should just add stuff there

Re: [Mlgame-devel] Cygwin

[Domin <dsi...@gm...>]

> The problem is, it is the pack _with_ cygwin, therefore, the user will
> have cygwin only when he ungzips it :)

I thought it's a patch, not the whole cygwin.

> Is zip a format that new windows (XP) can open without any additional
> software?

Dunno.
I think that a windows user that wants to compile is familiar with unzippin=
g.

> I just found a bug:
>
> The cost of "experimental" is soon getting to "-1" and when you buy
> more of it, it becomes -2, -5 etc, so the more you buy the more money you
> have...
>
> I suppose you can fix this one in 3 minutes, so what do you say about
> doing it now?

It is done.

> > > The start of Scorch when it's generating explosions, may
> > > be very confusing for a person that doesn't know this,
> > > so a sort of a progress bar would be a really really good
> > > visual addition...
> >
> > Currently there is no easy way to know how long it will take. There is
> > some explanation on console. Should I make it more verbose?
>
> It's ok, unless it's full-screen... And in full-screen it would require
> some more infrastructure, which I think we should put in TODO.

Talking about TODO, we should make a list and set priorities.

regards
 Domin

Re: [Mlgame-devel] Cygwin

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 07:19:54PM +0100, Domin wrote:
> > So I just tried the Cygwin pack, and it works.
> >
> > The only non-obvious thing, is the Cygwin pack is a ".tar.gz" pack,
> > and unpacking it under Windows is non-obvious...
> >
> > Maybe it is good to repack it as a ".zip" or ".rar" or ".cab"?
> > What is natural under windows?
> 
> I think zip is most natural, rar is ok and probably smaller. However,
> its a cygwin pack, where ungzipping should be obvious.

The problem is, it is the pack _with_ cygwin, therefore, the user will
have cygwin only when he ungzips it :)

Is zip a format that new windows (XP) can open without any additional
software?

> > Domin: If you're happy with the current state of Scorch
> >   and would want a windows binary, say so.
> 
> If it is not much of hassle, I want one.

It takes 3 minues + 2 reboots (The latter is longer I think...)

> Viger asked for. Send him a link by gg, if you got his number.

I just found a bug:

The cost of "experimental" is soon getting to "-1" and when you buy
more of it, it becomes -2, -5 etc, so the more you buy the more money you
have...

I suppose you can fix this one in 3 minutes, so what do you say about
doing it now?

> > The start of Scorch when it's generating explosions, may
> > be very confusing for a person that doesn't know this,
> > so a sort of a progress bar would be a really really good
> > visual addition...
> 
> Currently there is no easy way to know how long it will take. There is
> some explanation on console. Should I make it more verbose?

It's ok, unless it's full-screen... And in full-screen it would require
some more infrastructure, which I think we should put in TODO.

Cek

Re: [Mlgame-devel] Cygwin

[Domin <dsi...@gm...>]

> So I just tried the Cygwin pack, and it works.
>
> The only non-obvious thing, is the Cygwin pack is a ".tar.gz" pack,
> and unpacking it under Windows is non-obvious...
>
> Maybe it is good to repack it as a ".zip" or ".rar" or ".cab"?
> What is natural under windows?

I think zip is most natural, rar is ok and probably smaller. However,
its a cygwin pack, where ungzipping should be obvious.

> Domin: If you're happy with the current state of Scorch
>   and would want a windows binary, say so.

If it is not much of hassle, I want one.
Viger asked for. Send him a link by gg, if you got his number.

> The start of Scorch when it's generating explosions, may
> be very confusing for a person that doesn't know this,
> so a sort of a progress bar would be a really really good
> visual addition...

Currently there is no easy way to know how long it will take. There is
some explanation on console. Should I make it more verbose?

regards
 Domin

[Mlgame-devel] Cygwin

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

So I just tried the Cygwin pack, and it works.

The only non-obvious thing, is the Cygwin pack is a ".tar.gz" pack,
and unpacking it under Windows is non-obvious...

Maybe it is good to repack it as a ".zip" or ".rar" or ".cab"?
What is natural under windows? 

Domin: If you're happy with the current state of Scorch
  and would want a windows binary, say so.

The start of Scorch when it's generating explosions, may
be very confusing for a person that doesn't know this,
so a sort of a progress bar would be a really really good 
visual addition...

regards

Re: [Mlgame-devel] delta Makefile

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 06:19:16PM +0100, =A3ukasz Lew wrote:
> To make a new project and a std makefile for it, I need to modify 2
> files : Dir.mk and Makefile.
> Can't it be reduced to one file?

We want 2 things:

a) calling make from a subdirectory builds it and all dependencies,
   but no things that are not needed=20
b) we want to use standard make semantics, that is first target in a
   makefile is called by default

Therefore from b and a by modus ponens we have:

A makefile to build it's target needs to include all other dependencies
but no targets, therefore it includes all "Dir" files and not "makefile"s

So just to be able to build things Dir.mk is needed, but to call make
from a dir also the rules there are needed, therefore a distinct makefile
is needed.

Is it convinceing?

(It's not a real prove, but I'm nearly sure it's impossible)

[Mlgame-devel] delta Makefile

[<luk...@gm...>]

To make a new project and a std makefile for it, I need to modify 2
files : Dir.mk and Makefile.
Can't it be reduced to one file?

Re: [Mlgame-devel] CVS help

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 05:30:54PM +0100, =A3ukasz Lew wrote:
> How to set up CVS for MLGame on sourceforge?
>=20
> Lukasz

export CVS_RSH=3Dssh=20
cvs -z3 -d:ext:luk...@cv...:/cvsroot/mlgame co mlgame

Re: [Mlgame-devel] Test 4

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 05:29:23PM +0100, Domin wrote:
> 2005/12/10, =A3ukasz Lew <luk...@gm...>:
> > Seems fine.
> >
> > But.
> > Why I do not receive my own mails?
>=20
> Check your options.
>=20
> regards
>  Domin
> N=18=ACHY=DE=B5=E9=9A=8AX=AC=B2=9A'=B2=8A=DEu=BC=92=A6[=A7=90=89=DC=0E=8C=
=A8=BA
> =DE=A6=D8k=A2=E8!=96=88=1F=8AW=AC~=8A=E9=AE=86=E5zk=12=B6=8AC=A3	=E5=A1=
=A7m=85=E9=DE=C0=02@^=C7=9A=AD=C8^=9E=08=A7z=D8Z=B6f=A4z=CB=1Ej=B7!=8Ax2=A2=
=EA=E5=A2=07=E2=95=EB=1A=B1=E6=AC=C9=AB,=BA=B7=E2=9E=0Ba{=07=9B=0C=E5=8D,=
=E0=03H=F2=D44=A8m=B6=9F=FFi=DB(=B1=D9=DC=A2o=DAv'

What is this?

Re: [Mlgame-devel] Test 4

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 05:25:56PM +0100, =A3ukasz Lew wrote:
> Seems fine.
>=20
> But.
> Why I do not receive my own mails?
>=20
GMail filters out messages with the same IDs. If you send yourself an ema=
il
you see it only once, whereas if you send yourself with mutt you see it t=
wice.

So, anyway, I receive my e-mails...

[Mlgame-devel] CVS help

[<luk...@gm...>]

How to set up CVS for MLGame on sourceforge?

Lukasz

Re: [Mlgame-devel] Test 4

[Domin <dsi...@gm...>]

MjAwNS8xMi8xMCwgo3VrYXN6IExldyA8bHVrYXN6Lmxld0BnbWFpbC5jb20+Ogo+IFNlZW1zIGZp
bmUuCj4KPiBCdXQuCj4gV2h5IEkgZG8gbm90IHJlY2VpdmUgbXkgb3duIG1haWxzPwoKQ2hlY2sg
eW91ciBvcHRpb25zLgoKcmVnYXJkcwogRG9taW4K

Re: [Mlgame-devel] Test 4

[<luk...@gm...>]

Seems fine.

But.
Why I do not receive my own mails?

On 12/10/05, Domin <dsi...@gm...> wrote:
> Now, I hope, I've changed the right option in list config.
>
> regards
>  Domin
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log fi=
les
> for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id=16865&opclick
> _______________________________________________
> Mlgame-devel mailing list
> Mlg...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mlgame-devel
>

[Mlgame-devel] Test 4

[Domin <dsi...@gm...>]

Now, I hope, I've changed the right option in list config.

regards
 Domin

Re: [Mlgame-devel] TEST 2

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 05:02:18PM +0100, =A3ukasz Lew wrote:
> 1. Will I receive my mail?
> 2. What is the fild Reaply-to
> 3. Do You have no problems with this Replay-to setting?
> 4. Can I filter Your replays ?

In Mutt if you press "L" it replys to the mailing list and not to the
person.

Whose reply's you want to filter? Do you mean a gmail filter?

[Mlgame-devel] Test 3

[Domin <dsi...@gm...>]

Where is  Reply-To:???

regards
 Domin

[Mlgame-devel] TEST 2

[<luk...@gm...>]

1. Will I receive my mail?
2. What is the fild Reaply-to
3. Do You have no problems with this Replay-to setting?
4. Can I filter Your replays ?

[Mlgame-devel] Test

[<luk...@gm...>]

Ping.
Who.

Uzywajcie Subjectow.

[Mlgame-devel] Re: Lista mejlowa mlgame

[Cezary K. <ce...@cs...>]

On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 03:46:39PM +0100, Domin wrote:
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mlgame-devel
>=20
> Za=B3o=BFy=B3em na sorcford=BFu list=EA mejlow=B1 mlgame
>=20
> pozdr
>  Domin

Fajnie.

W sumie kiedy ja by=B3em we Francji a =A3ukasz w Holandii projekt mo=BFe =
m=F3g=B3by
=BFy=E6, gdyby=B6my w te wszystkie mechanizmy zainwestowali troch=EA...