From: Alan W. <arw...@wo...> - 2003-08-06 07:05:19
|
>> I would like to install MH on my Compaq IA, which have >> an internal flash drive and no hard drive. >> The actual linux distribution is the Midori. >> I could install some software on external compact >> flash, which recognize as hd1 ... >> Is anyone install MH on compact flash ? Is there any >> log which writen in the hd0 ? (the midori >> specification have some directory in read-only) There is extensive logging in MH, but you can direct where all of it goes. You will likely have to get a perl interpreter running, but MH might run with the compiled version OK. I've thought of the same thing with a l PDA running MH mounted on the wall for a proxy access. |
From: <ge...@ya...> - 2003-08-06 09:32:29
|
Hi >You will likely have to get a perl interpreter >running, but MH might run with the compiled version OK. ? correct me if I don't understood, but the MH archive include a compiled PERL interpreteur ? Regards --== Geo ==-- ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com |
From: Steve S. <st...@sw...> - 2003-08-06 14:34:41
|
Hello! The Perl interpretor itself is always compiled, and is installed separately from MH. However, Bruce has a couple programs that can read perl code (read: the MH source code), and compile it into an executable. Bruce compiles versions for windows and Linux, allowing us to run MH even if we don't have a Perl interpretor installed, because once compiled, an interpretor is not needed. I hope I said it clearly enough to cause at least a mild case of understanding. :) Anyone else have a better way of putting it? -- Steve Switzer steve (at) switzerny (dot) org Quoting Pascal Geo <ge...@ya...>: > Hi > > >You will likely have to get a perl interpreter > >running, but MH might run with the compiled version > OK. > > ? correct me if I don't understood, but the MH archive > include a compiled PERL interpreteur ? > > Regards |
From: <ge...@ya...> - 2003-08-06 17:06:55
|
ok , thanks and about the disk space after compilation how much ? it said that cost 10mo minila, but with that space, how many features are running ? thanks ===== --== Geo ==-- ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com |
From: Richard P. <rap...@ni...> - 2003-08-07 04:41:15
|
Hi You might want to check out my experiments with running Misterhouse under a "micro" distribution here: http://tifster.tzo.com/wiki/bin/view/Misterhouse/MorphixAndMisterHouse http://tifster.tzo.com/wiki/bin/view/Misterhouse/EagleLinuxAndMisterhouse I was burning the images to CD, but there's not that much difference between that and either a compact flash card or USB key - and basically you should be able to get pretty much everything running (in text only mode) with misterhouse in less than 32Mb but I'd allow for 64Mb for future growth if possible. Given the (relatively low) cost of compact flash cards, I'd put in the biggest one I could afford and that is supported by the workstation. If you want to have some form of gui it starts to get a bit bigger - check out http://movix.sourceforge.net/ and http://womp.sourceforge.net for examples of what can be done. Cheers Richard |
From: Gary S. <gl...@ea...> - 2003-08-07 05:43:05
|
Richard Phillips wrote: > Hi > > I was burning the images to CD, but there's not that much difference between > that and either a compact flash card or USB key - and basically you should > be able to get pretty much everything running (in text only mode) with > misterhouse in less than 32Mb but I'd allow for 64Mb for future growth if > possible. Just a couple of quick comments.... Generally speaking, USB isn't going to work, because most systems won't boot from USB. There may be some out there, but I'm not aware of them. It's a chicken-and-egg situation - It can't boot because it can't load the drivers, and it can't load the drivers because it can't boot. Also, one problem with CF linux is the CF cards will take only a limited number of writes to a given memory location, on the order of 100K or so. This limitation means generally anything that writes frequently, such as log files, etc., needs to be redirected to something like /dev/null, or a ramdisk. That's not to say it can't be done. I took one of the floppy distros a couple of years ago, and had it running for several months on a CF. All logging just went to the bit bucket, and the CF survived, but I wouldn't use that particular CF for anything critical at this point, because I'm sure it's on it's last legs. A group called TAPR - Tuscan Amateur Packet Radio - sells an adapter that converts a CF socket to a 'standard' hard drive interface, and that's what I used. It wasn't a universal solution though, because of the three older P1 machines I had, only one would recognize the CF drive. The others couldn't even manually recognize the drive setup. Here's a link to the CF adapter: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fcfa.html I see they have a new version out since I bought mine, so maybe it will now work with more machines. I'd love to see MH running on a CF with one of these on a low power machine. No moving parts! Gary Sanders |
From: Steve H. <s-m...@tr...> - 2003-08-07 06:26:43
|
-=> On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 01:43:03 -0400, Gary Sanders <gl...@ea...> said: > Generally speaking, USB isn't going to work, because most systems > won't boot from USB. There may be some out there, but I'm not aware > of them. Some newer (generally smaller) motherboard do boot from USB, and many laptops can (because Floppy has moved to USB). Intel has had "Boot-to-USB" since 2001 (D815EEA), which is easier for them since they write their own BIOS. > Also, one problem with CF linux is the CF cards will take only a > limited number of writes to a given memory location, on the order of > 100K or so. That's not the case any more. Some modern cards (Toshiba, Verbatim) can handle a million+ writes on each NAND cell. And they *all* have wear-leveling flash memory controllers in them, so even writing to the same filesystem sector repeatedly will still spread writes out over the flash device behind your back. You can't wear out just one block of the flash. So you would have to write almost 1,000,000 times the size of the card to wear out the flash. In my experience, the flash lifetime is under-specified as well, and I've seen 3x the 'minimum' number of writes before things start slowing down -- and this was on intentional lifetime tests that wrote 24/7 for months. > A group called TAPR - Tuscan Amateur Packet Radio - sells an adapter > that converts a CF socket to a 'standard' hard drive interface, and > that's what I used. Those are nice, and I think they were the first. There are cheaper ones on eBay lately. mydigitaldiscount.com sells them retail as well, cheaper than TAPR last I checked. They sure do help make nice silent machines. An old (fanless) laptop with the 2.5" IDE replaced by CompactFlash would be just the ticket for a silent terminal. :) -Steve |
From: Gary S. <gl...@ea...> - 2003-08-09 00:52:29
|
Steve Haehnichen wrote: > > Some newer (generally smaller) motherboard do boot from USB, and many > laptops can (because Floppy has moved to USB). Thanks for the update. I really hadn't been following development in this area since my little experiment of a couple of years ago. > There are cheaper ones on eBay lately. mydigitaldiscount.com sells > them retail as well, cheaper than TAPR last I checked. Thanks to your heads-up on this, I ordered one of their CF to ide adapters last night. One nice thing about it is it will directly mount in a floppy drive bay. A couple of my older Celeron boxes are small units that have only a floppy bay (plus an internal ide bay, of course). That makes installation trivial mechanically. I can either mount it in the floppy bay to make it accessible from outside, or stick it in the internal ide bay to make it inaccessible. Now to see if I can get a reasonable linux distro running on one again. Then on to an attempt to get MH running on it. > They sure do help make nice silent machines. An old (fanless) laptop > with the 2.5" IDE replaced by CompactFlash would be just the ticket > for a silent terminal. :) One thing I couldn't find on eBay was an ide to 2.5" drive connector adapter. I saw a lot of 2.5" to ide adapters (adapt a 2.5" drive to a full size ide plug), but none of the other way around, which would be needed to connect a CF adapter to a laptop. Seen any? Gary Sanders |
From: Gary S. <gl...@ea...> - 2003-08-14 01:00:58
|
Steve Haehnichen wrote: > > Those are nice, and I think they were the first. There are cheaper > ones on eBay lately. mydigitaldiscount.com sells them retail as well, > cheaper than TAPR last I checked. > > They sure do help make nice silent machines. An old (fanless) laptop > with the 2.5" IDE replaced by CompactFlash would be just the ticket > for a silent terminal. Well, I received my CF to IDE adapter yesterday, my 256Meg CF today, and this afternoon I was successful in getting a couple of different linux distros to boot from the CF. TA Linux was about the best candidate I could find. Unfortunately, neither distro had a libc.so* that was recent enough to be able to run the compiled version of MH. I even tried to shrink SuSe linux 8.2 enough to fit on the CF, but with all the YAST - related and other stuff that I didn't know if I could safely strip out, I never did get it to fit. (I even learned the hard way what happens if you don't include the mount utility!) SuSe 8.2 does have a recent enough lib file, but it's not exactly a light weight distro.... So, anyone have any suggestions for a recent, lightweight linux distro that would fit, run, and have enough free space to fit compiled MH into it? As I proved to myself this afternoon, I don't have the skills necessary to create one myself. Gary Sanders |
From: Steve H. <s-m...@tr...> - 2003-08-14 01:22:28
|
-=> On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:47:37 -0400, Gary Sanders <gl...@ea...> said: > So, anyone have any suggestions for a recent, lightweight linux > distro that would fit, run, and have enough free space to fit > compiled MH into it? As I proved to myself this afternoon, I don't > have the skills necessary to create one myself. Try http://www.cd-linux.org/ They have similar goals, and are largely Debian-based so it's easy to pull in packages. Their intent is to make Linux boot and run from a read-only CD-ROM, saving config files on the network or other drive. Tell me Linux hasn't bloated to where a running target system needs more than 256MB. :) -Steve |
From: Sean W. <li...@su...> - 2003-08-14 19:08:31
|
Steve Haehnichen wrote: >-=> On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:47:37 -0400, Gary Sanders <gl...@ea...> said: > > > >>So, anyone have any suggestions for a recent, lightweight linux >>distro that would fit, run, and have enough free space to fit >>compiled MH into it? As I proved to myself this afternoon, I don't >>have the skills necessary to create one myself. >> >> > >Try http://www.cd-linux.org/ > >They have similar goals, and are largely Debian-based so it's easy to >pull in packages. Their intent is to make Linux boot and run from a >read-only CD-ROM, saving config files on the network or other drive. > >Tell me Linux hasn't bloated to where a running target system needs >more than 256MB. :) > >-Steve > > OK. It hasn't. Check out the following for a floppy boot distro. :) http://www.toms.net/rb/ Knoppix has bootable CDs as well as others. My personal thing is to have a network bootable system. That is what I'm working toward. I've had it running in the past, but I want to set up my network throughout the house to have network bootable nodes in the various rooms. No disks whatsoever. This CF boot system can be used to house a boot image that tells the system to boot off the network if your NIC doesn't directly support it (no boot ROM or PXE). Check out the rom-o-matic.org for it. These images can be stored on a floppy, don't see why it couldn't be on a Flash. My latest motherboard for my workstation has built in Ethernet and can boot off of it. You can even hit F12 when booting to make it boot off the network. Pretty slick. -- Sean Walker http://sean.surfmy.net/ |
From: Steve H. <s-m...@tr...> - 2003-08-14 19:57:16
|
-=> On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:01:34 -0700, Sean Walker <li...@su...> said: > My personal thing is to have a network bootable system. That is what I'm > working toward. I've had it running in the past, but I want to set up my > network throughout the house to have network bootable nodes in the > various rooms. No disks whatsoever. OH.. why didn't you say so. :) I'm doing this on several machines. They're all Intel motherboards.. perfect for netboot. All have on-board network and sound, and some have internal crummy video, making it a zero-card system. I have one P-III 800 MHz system that goes from power-on to "Login:" prompt in 17 seconds. No disk drives at all. This is my Misterhouse controller. PXE works great, and each machine has it's own NFS-mounted filesystem. I can power them off at any time without corruption, and with a Zalman heatsink and power supply, they're nearly silent. The Intel motherboards are impossible to overclock, but they have a really fast-booting BIOS and nice boot options. -Steve |
From: Sean W. <li...@su...> - 2003-08-14 21:30:04
|
>OH.. why didn't you say so. :) > >I'm doing this on several machines. They're all Intel >motherboards.. perfect for netboot. All have on-board network and >sound, and some have internal crummy video, making it a zero-card >system. > >I have one P-III 800 MHz system that goes from power-on to "Login:" >prompt in 17 seconds. No disk drives at all. This is my Misterhouse >controller. > >PXE works great, and each machine has it's own NFS-mounted filesystem. > >I can power them off at any time without corruption, and with a Zalman >heatsink and power supply, they're nearly silent. > >The Intel motherboards are impossible to overclock, but they have a >really fast-booting BIOS and nice boot options. > >-Steve > > My Athlon based P7S5A is a very fast booting BIOS machine and incredibly cheap. I got the motherboard and an Athlon 1200+ for around $60. I was so shocked by the price. I'm tempted to pick up a few more for other places around the house. Just need the quiet CPU fan and power supply. It has built in sound and ethernet, but no video. That would be nice for most purposes. I fully recommend this route to people for HA purposes. -- Sean Walker http://sean.surfmy.net/ |
From: <ge...@ya...> - 2003-08-07 06:40:53
|
ok, thanks, but I'll try to install it on an Internet Appliance Compaq, which have this interface type inboard (I can boot on the internal flash memory or external Flash card .... I install the Midori linux distribution, which run correctly and developped specialy for this type of IA (without harddrive) For the other guy , which don't want to have some noise , during MisterHouse running, you can use a standart ide device : SolidState Drive ... which works perfectly but a bit expensiv ... Gary Sanders <gl...@ea...> wrote: Richard Phillips wrote: > Hi > > I was burning the images to CD, but there's not that much difference between > that and either a compact flash card or USB key - and basically you should > be able to get pretty much everything running (in text only mode) with > misterhouse in less than 32Mb but I'd allow for 64Mb for future growth if > possible. Just a couple of quick comments.... Generally speaking, USB isn't going to work, because most systems won't boot from USB. There may be some out there, but I'm not aware of them. It's a chicken-and-egg situation - It can't boot because it can't load the drivers, and it can't load the drivers because it can't boot. Also, one problem with CF linux is the CF cards will take only a limited number of writes to a given memory location, on the order of 100K or so. This limitation means generally anything that writes frequently, such as log files, etc., needs to be redirected to something like /dev/null, or a ramdisk. That's not to say it can't be done. I took one of the floppy distros a couple of years ago, and had it running for several months on a CF. All logging just went to the bit bucket, and the CF survived, but I wouldn't use that particular CF for anything critical at this point, because I'm sure it's on it's last legs. A group called TAPR - Tuscan Amateur Packet Radio - sells an adapter that converts a CF socket to a 'standard' hard drive interface, and that's what I used. It wasn't a universal solution though, because of the three older P1 machines I had, only one would recognize the CF drive. The others couldn't even manually recognize the drive setup. Here's a link to the CF adapter: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fcfa.html I see they have a new version out since I bought mine, so maybe it will now work with more machines. I'd love to see MH running on a CF with one of these on a low power machine. No moving parts! Gary Sanders ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 ________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from this list, go to: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 --== Geo ==-- --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail |
From: Alan W. <arw...@wo...> - 2003-08-09 03:54:02
|
>> One thing I couldn't find on eBay was an ide to 2.5" drive connector >> adapter. I saw a lot of 2.5" to ide adapters (adapt a 2.5" drive to a >> full size ide plug), but none of the other way around, which would be >> needed to connect a CF adapter to a laptop. Seen any? I've had the impression, still waiting for my ebay purchase to arrive after 8 days, the compact flash drives were already laptop connectable, you only need the adapter to move to full size PC. Alan |
From: Gary S. <gl...@ea...> - 2003-08-09 05:23:27
|
Alan Womack wrote: > > I've had the impression, still waiting for my ebay purchase to arrive after 8 > days, the compact flash drives were already laptop connectable, you only need > the adapter to move to full size PC. This is the one I ordered last night (It was shipped today): http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_79&products_id=43 The description indicates it has a standard 40 pin ide connector. My understanding is the 2.5' drives have a different pin count and spacing. Gary Sanders |
From: Sean W. <li...@su...> - 2003-08-09 23:42:45
|
| This is the one I ordered last night (It was shipped today): | | http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_79&products_id=43 | | The description indicates it has a standard 40 pin ide connector. My understanding is the 2.5' drives have a different pin count and spacing. | | Gary Sanders They indeed have different pin count and spacing. The only real difference is that power is carried on the same plug. This adds a couple of pins to it. Easy to find adapters for that if you look around. Fry's carries them locally. I'm sure other places have them. -- Sean Walker http://sean.surfmy.net/ |
From: Alan W. <arw...@wo...> - 2003-08-09 04:14:57
|
>> > Also, one problem with CF linux is the CF cards will take only a >> > limited number of writes to a given memory location, on the order of >> > 100K or so. I've got a pair of flashdrives coming that are intended to replace hard drives. Hoping to put them into a RAID 0 arrangement and use them for swap on XP and Photoshop. Alan |
From: Joel D. <jr...@io...> - 2003-08-09 04:29:17
|
Alan- Why would you want to use flash for swap space? IIRC, flash is a whole lot slower than hard drives, and you're more apt to hit the write limits, even if it is up in the millions of writes with newer cards. I'd think you'd be better off putting an old hard disk in an dedicate it to swap. I would expect that you would see a performance hit with the flash also. Joel On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, it would appear that Alan Womack wrote: > > >> > Also, one problem with CF linux is the CF cards will take only a > >> > limited number of writes to a given memory location, on the order of > >> > 100K or so. > > I've got a pair of flashdrives coming that are intended to replace hard drives. > Hoping to put them into a RAID 0 arrangement and use them for swap on XP and > Photoshop. > > Alan |
From: Steve H. <s-m...@tr...> - 2003-08-09 04:33:53
|
-=> On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Alan Womack <arw...@wo...> said: > I've got a pair of flashdrives coming that are intended to replace > hard drives. Hoping to put them into a RAID 0 arrangement and use > them for swap on XP and Photoshop. Probably OT for the misterhouse list, but I would really recommend benchmarking those drives before you decide to make them swap. True flash drives are notoriously slow at writing, so you might find Photoshop taking a performance dive when it goes to spill over. If they have an internal bank of shadow RAM, then you'll see better results. If your Photoshop is swapping, then the cheapest way to speed it up is More Memory. :) -Steve |
From: Alan W. <arw...@wo...> - 2003-08-13 04:40:29
|
>> Probably OT for the misterhouse list, but I would really recommend >> benchmarking those drives before you decide to make them swap. True >> flash drives are notoriously slow at writing, so you might find >> Photoshop taking a performance dive when it goes to spill over. There are only a few specs available on the website, writing is considerably slower than reading. The drives were intended for database applications, only can only assume which type of database? LDAP perhaps? >> If they have an internal bank of shadow RAM, then you'll see better >> results. >> If your Photoshop is swapping, then the cheapest way to speed it up is >> More Memory. :) I already have 12-13 (384megs) times the size of my initial file (27 megs) and photoshop still insists on swapping, especially when printing. Moving to XP has dramatically cut printing spool times, but it will be a fun experience. Alan |
From: ChuckK <chu...@us...> - 2003-08-14 16:20:41
|
>So, anyone have any suggestions for a recent, lightweight linux distro=20 >that would fit, run, and have enough free space to fit compiled MH into >it A CD-rom based linux distro I really like is knoppix at http://www.knoppix.org It's a little bigger than your 256 MB card, but you could easily slim this one down. Nice thing about knoppix is that it's a very active and up-to-date distro. It also has all kinds of instructions and tools on how to build your custom version. The current, as is, distribution weighs in at about 695 MB. Course you could always go a little bigger on your CF card. A 764 or 1024 MB CF card will always be able to hold knoppix. That's if you got an extra $100 - $200 more than you spent on you 256 MB card. |
From: Gary S. <gl...@ea...> - 2003-08-14 22:09:51
|
ChuckK wrote: > > A CD-rom based linux distro I really like is knoppix at > http://www.knoppix.org I haven't tried the original Knoppix, but I did try two other derivations last night - "Damn Small Linux" and Morphix. Morphix looked interesting, because it's modular, and I could easily make it fit. Both distros don't want to boot on my system, and they have the same exact symptom, so I suspect the basic problem lies within Knoppix. When I boot from a CD made from their ISO's, and the CF is plugged into the CF/IDE adapter, the boot loads OK, then it bombs, with a message saying it can't find the Knoppix file system. If I remove the CF from the adapter, both versions boot completely normally. Also, if I substitute a regular IDe hard drive for the CF/adapter, it boots. So it must be some kind of incompatibility with the CF. I even tried it with the CF unformatted, formatted with a linux partition, and (just for grins) formatted with a FAT16 format. No go. I scrounged around various support boards to find ideas, but came up empty handed. Shame, because it does have a libc recent enough to support compiled MH. > Course you could always go a little bigger on your CF card. > A 764 or 1024 MB CF card will always be able to hold > knoppix. That's if you got an extra $100 - $200 more than you spent on > you 256 MB card. I forgot to mention - I'm basically cheap...... I found the 256 Meg on sale at Circuit City for 50 bucks. The 1 meg Cf's are definitely still too pricey for me. I'll have to wait a few months 'till they come down in price. Anyway, I'm concerned that the CF bug would probably be in Knoppix too. Gary Sanders |
From: <ge...@ya...> - 2003-08-15 06:51:59
|
Hi I use the Midori linux distribution (http://midori.transmeta.com/) I install it in to a Compaq Internet Appliance, which based on AMD K6-200, and 32Mo RAM and 64Mo Flash drive. This linux distro can use the usb wireless adapter. Du to the small disk space,I must compil all software on another computer and copy it into the Internet Appliance with a CF card. I'll try to install MH into this external CF card, and send here the result. SYS ===== --== Geo ==-- ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com |
From: ChuckK <chu...@us...> - 2003-08-14 17:28:13
|
>A CD-rom based linux distro I really like is knoppix at >http://www.knoppix.org There was one other I was going to mention and forgot. http://www.lnx-bbc.org/ This is a very slim version. It's intended for those little 40 MB business card CD's. I haven't used it for years, but it was a fun little conversation piece at the time. |