Activity for MichalOS
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Justin R. Miller modified a comment on discussion General Discussion
If you're curious, I recently discovered MichalOS (as well as MikeOS) and got both running on a circa-1989 386 luggable! Pretty fun. I'm recently getting back into old systems & their BASICs, as well as newly into electronics, so I'm starting to meet in the middle with old assembly code and lower-level stuff after a career of higher-level programming. Very fun. Thanks for this project.
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If you're curious, I recently discovered Michal OS (as well as MikeOS) and got both running on a circa-1989 386 luggable! Pretty fun. I'm recently getting back into old systems & their BASICs, as well as newly into electronics, so I'm starting to meet in the middle with old assembly code and lower-level stuff after a career of higher-level programming. Very fun. Thanks for this project.
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Michal Procházka posted a comment on ticket #46
I try to stay away from social media as much as possible, so if you want to submit ideas, please use the Discussions tab. I see that you've already posted something there :)
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Shoaib Jamal posted a comment on ticket #46
Ok. Thanks for accepting pull request, I have many ideas for MichalOS and I cannot discuss them here. Are you on social media so I can contact you personally there?
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Hi! If you want to contribute, you may want to check out the GitHub repo, where all MichalOS development will be happening from now. You can submit issues & pull requests there, as well as have a normal discussion about the project. :D
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Hey, Sorry for late reply, I want to contribute to MichalOS, can we talk on Instagram or Email?
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Hello! I don't even know how to start this post. I am so sorry for replying that late. However, SourceForge (for whatever reason) doesn't send e-mail notifications for discussion, so I wasn't even aware of your post's existence. I only noticed it just now, because I'm migrating to GitHub and I want to preserve as much as possible from here. I've been following the Commander X16 project as well, however, I have a couple issues with it: - From the pictures on their website, that thing looks giant....
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Hi Shoaib! If you are talking about the libmouse library by Joshua Beck, which adds a mouse API to programs, then it is done probably the same as in MikeOS. In fact, this exact library was once a part of the MichalOS kernel, but I later removed it because: a) it didn't work all that well on some devices b) it was only used in a couple of demos, it would be very hard to apply it to existing programs c) by including it in the MichalOS kernel (which is licenced under the BSD license), I was violating...
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How to enable mouse library
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Hi, Ivan! Sorry, my bad, now it's updated with the floppy & ISO image :)
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MichalOS updated /MichalOS 3.0/MichalOS.zip
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Ivan Ivanov created ticket #45
MichalOS 3.0 zip archive does not provide a floppy image
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Alright, so I got rid of the buffer and it seems to work fine. Please let me know if it bursts into flames or something. :D
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Well, I would do that, if I had enough free RAM. Actually, if I increased the buffer size to ~3 kB (224 directory entries - max for the FAT file system, 12 bytes + 1 byte separator each), this issue would disappear forever. Unfortunately, this buffer is located right after the raw disk buffer (which is ~7 kB in size), so it is at the top of our available memory segment, leaving 1 kB free. I am now considering getting rid of the buffer altogether and just making a separate list dialog function which...
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Nice to hear back from you! ;) Very interesting, I see :) Perhaps this is inefficient, but is it possible to just increase a 1 kB buffer to like 2 kB for a quick fix?
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And... I figured out what's wrong. There are just way too many files in the floppy's root directory that it overflowed the 1 kB buffer allocated for file names. I'll probably have to start cutting down bloat, like combining the tiny graphics demos into a single file, etc. Or I could challenge myself to add directory support and separate the files into directories (images, music etc.), but I don't know about that.
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Hi, Ivan! I'm doing rather well, and I hope you are too. :) It's been a long time since I've been active here, really. In the meantime, I've gone through 3 OS reinstalls and migrated to another computer. So after all of that time, I remembered that I should probably take a look at MichalOS to see how it's doing. Oh. Oh no. Yeah, after I sent you that disk image available above, I made some changes (which I don't even remember, to be honest) and... uh... it seems that the list dialog can sometimes...
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Hi there @michalprochazka ! How are you doing? Hope you are in a great health and everything is going well :) Hope we can do more interesting MichalOS experiments during the coming holidays ;)
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Forgot to write: I tested this image and didn't find any problems yet - so haven't had a chance to explore your new crash screen ;-)
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Alright, so I realised one thing: the crash screen is trash. So I changed it that it now shows... drumroll... where it actually crashed! Also, I kind of exploited the issue from ticket #1 so when the system hangs, you can press Insert, it triggers an error and you can see where it hung up. Pretty neat, huh? :D About the Player app – I'm afraid that the shortcut to the Settings app would be impossible, however, putting an option in the "YM3812 is not detected" dialog sounds like a good idea, I'll...
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Alright, so I realised one thing: the crash screen is trash. So I changed it that it now shows... drumroll... where it actually crashed! Also, I kind of exploited the issue from ticket #1 so when the system hangs, you can press Insert, it triggers an error and you can see where it hung up. Pretty neat, huh? :D About the Player app – I'm afraid that the shortcut to the Settings app would be impossible, however, putting an option in the "YM3812 is not detected" dialog sounds like a good idea, I'll...
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Yes, #41 and #42 problems are resolved - in your new version above too :) Could be closed. #43 - when I attempt a shutdown, the last lines are: Connecting to APM and Enabling power management, and it freezes in this place. Luckily a soft reboot still works. Best manual is a manual which is not needed ;-) For example: your player app is probably the only program which uses Adlib, so maybe it makes sense to add a shortcut to sound setup directly to PLAYER.APP main menu - and also, when "YM3812 is not...
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Nice, so tickets #41 and #42 are solved? That would be cool ;-) Also, about the shutdown, what happens when you select "Shut down the computer", does anything like "Attempting shutdown through APM" appear? And does "Soft reboot the computer" actually work? I moved the stack back to where it was, but gave it the full 64 kB, let's see if that works, it should though. Oh, and thanks! I'm trying to make the UI as neat as possible. I recently said that I would be making a manual, but then I realised that...
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Michal, I could ran just 5 minutes today (and away for a few days), but it seems that stack moving really helped: new file manager is good, no issues at demo tour, and player is fine. Although shutdown attemp still freezes (and OS didn't try a reboot when it stuck), overall it's very nice :-) Also noticed a great playback bar at your player. Hope the rest of OS functions are also good, will test more at first opportunity! ;-)
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OK... but the Demo tour and File manager still work fine, right? This is so weird, I moved the stack to where it was before, does it work now?
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Your new attachment resolves a problem with DEMOTOUR (#42) and now it appears on startup, but launching an app after startup now freezes MichalOS. This is certainly not a seated RAM problem: I still have "MichalOS 3.0 Beta (1)" floppy image inside the same BIOS - and everything is working fine there. And didn't touch this RAM for ages ;-)
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Your new attachment resolves a problem with DEMOTOUR (#42) and now it appears on startup, but launching an app after startup now freezes MichalOS. This is certainly not a seated RAM problem: I still have "MichalOS 3.0 Beta (1)" floppy image inside the same BIOS - and everything is working fine there.
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MOUSEVGA.APP - freezes at black screen even for 8bpp video mode
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Review (and borrow?) the improvements of MikeOS 4.6b2 / TachyonOS
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"Shut down the computer" freezes and "Reboot the computer" returns to the initial "three tests" screen, at least if they have been skipped by "Backspace"
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Launch of MEMEDIT.APP or EDIT.APP causes the File Manager problems
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PLAYER.APP - if YM3812 not detected, try to play on PC Speaker
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PLAYER.APP - "Space - play/pause" not working for MMF files
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Hi! Don't worry, for the full 3.0 release, I'm planning to find a better mouse driver. (possibly from an old DOS game?) Also, about tickets #41, #42 and #43: they all sound like memory issues. The only things that could cause these issues that I could think of are: 1) I reduced the stack size to just 2 kB. I honestly don't know why. Dumb idea. It's probably not enough, I increased it to 16 kB. 2) Your RAM is going bad/is not properly seated. I recently had this issue under Linux, where weird strings...
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Hi! Don't worry, for the full 3.0 release, I'm planning to find a better mouse driver. (possibly from an old DOS game?) Also, about tickets #41, #42 and #43: they all sound like memory issues. The only things that could cause these issues that I could think of are: 1) I reduced the stack size to just 2 kB. I honestly don't know why. Dumb idea. It's probably not enough, I increased it to 16 kB. 2) Your RAM is going bad/is not properly seated. I recently had this issue under Linux, where weird strings...
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Hi! Don't worry, for the full 3.0 release, I'm planning to find a better mouse driver. (possibly from an old DOS game?) Also, about tickets #41, #42 and #43: they all sound like memory issues. The only things that could cause these issues that I could think of are: 1) I reduced the stack size to just 2 kB. I honestly don't know why. Dumb idea. It's probably not enough, I increased it to 16 kB. 2) Your RAM is going bad/is not properly seated. I recently had this issue under Linux, where weird strings...
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MichalOS 3.0 Beta 2 discussion
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Doesn't work: "When the shutdown procedure fails, it reboots the computer after pressing OK."
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No DEMOTOUR tutorial after a startup + a problem with it
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Error launching an app after a startup
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Thanks! But yes, I have some new features planned (mostly internal changes, but I'm planning some user experience changes as well), then I'll release Beta 2, test them and then do the final 3.0 release. I didn't make any of the music – for example, the Streets of Rage cover was made by Louis Gorenfeld using the Reality AdLib Tracker (that's where the RAD extension comes from), see here. But if you'd want to compose some of your own RAD music, you can get the tracker from here and run it under DOSBox,...
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;-) other than this, your final image looks good and worthy of final 3.0 - unless you plan to add more features/music before that. I.e. your Streets of range version is a bit different compared to original. Please remind how do you make this music - could it be automated (pass a MIDI and get a nice DRO or RAD) or there's a manual work? and what software you're using while doing that?
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Huh... that sounds more like a coincidence, I didn't change any time code (or at least I think I didn't), but fair enough :D
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Found a bug in your 3.0 beta image, when tested in a VirtualBox, it shows time as 31:42 09/07/2020 . But your latest version above - shows a correct time, 15:42 08/07/2020
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Yes, 2) and 3) are fixed and soon will try to trigger 1) as well as test more of 3.0 beta features. Luckily I got a vacation soon (so should be more free time hopefully) but before that need to work a lot ;-)
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Hi! Nice to see you back again :) The PWM sound quality really depends on not only the properties of the speaker, but also the circuitry which drives it. For example, my speaker sounds like noise only when 2 out of the 9 total channels are playing at once. 1 and 3+ channels sound fine, but 2 channels sound horrible. I don't know why. But don't be sad, upon listening to your recordings, they sound way better then anything I could get out of my speaker :D However, I can't think of any way to improve...
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Hi! Nice to see you back again :) The PWM sound quality really depends on not only the properties of the speaker, but also the circuitry which drives it. For example, my speaker sounds like noise only when 2 out of the 9 total channels are playing at once. 1 and 3+ channels sound fine, but 2 channels sound horrible. I don't know why. But don't be sad, upon listening to your recordings, they sound way better then anything I could get out of my speaker :D However, I can't think of any way to improve...
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Hi! Nice to see you back again :) The PWM sound quality really depends on not only the properties of the speaker, but also the circuitry which drives it. For example, my speaker sounds like noise only when 2 out of the 9 total channels are playing at once. 1 and 3+ channels sound fine, but 2 channels sound horrible. I don't know why. But don't be sad, upon listening to your recordings, they sound way better then anything I could get out of my speaker :D However, I can't think of any way to improve...
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Happy to be here again ;-) I didn't really notice a constant volume-changing issue, but had another: For some tunes that were relatively silent (i.e. "Swinging"), with your new sound boost mode there's a noticeable improvement! However, for those tunes which were already normal (a bit silent too, but louder) sound, a new boost mode causes a noise / sound distortion. I.e. in a normal mode, Eldreams is beautiful and super clear sound (literally perfect!), but with a boost there's a big added noise....
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Happy to be here again ;-) I didn't really notice a constant volume-changing issue, but had another: For some tunes that were relatively silent (i.e. "Swinging"), with your new sound boost mode there's a noticeable improvement! However, for those tunes which were already normal (a bit silent too, but louder) sound, a new boost mode causes a noise / sound distortion. I.e. in a normal mode, Eldreams is beautiful and super clear sound (literally perfect!), but with a boost there's a big added noise....
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I tried it, and in my opinion, the constant volume-changing makes the sound less pleasant. Still, I added it as a separate driver option in case anyone would like to play with it.
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Thank you ;-) Will try a new floppy a bit later, I just want to share an idea: when the quantity of notes being played is less than a number of channels, maybe share all the available channels between these fewer notes even if not holding them (but, if you add a note while holding them, release some of the previously "allocated" channels to switch to this new note). Example: it is silent, then you press 3 notes simultaneously. There are 9 channels, so MichalOS plays each note with 9/3 = 3 channels...
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Thanks! About the polyphonic piano: it works very similarly to the monophonic piano – when you press a key, a note starts playing, but it doesn't stop. When you hold the key, MichalOS thinks you pressed the key multiple times, so all of the 9 channels start to play the same note, thus making it louder. Now I've added an option for changing the channel number, so if you want louder channels, pick less. And for the "not obvious": I've added the hint for octave changing, and the choice for the Adlib...
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Great to see you! ;-) Play duo option is working great, but for some reason - if you quickly press and release a button (without holding), a sound in "Polyphonic Piano" is very silent - but gets louder if you hold a key for a while. Also its hard to get a chord unless you press all the notes simultaneously with a really precise timing. I feel that "Polyphonic Piano" could be improved Also, it would be nice if that PLAYER.APP had some internal shorcut / menu to quickly change the Adlib driver (normal...
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Hey, I'm back, and I bring these promised features! In the Music Player, there is now a "Polyphonic piano" and a "Play duo" option. I've tested both of them on my laptop and they work fine.
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Thank you so much, Michal, now everything works fine. Noticed a couple of new Castlevania DRO songs, and noticeable improvements in playback :-) I.e. now a monkey island is more pleasant to hear. Listened all DRO songs again - sound is beautiful :D Please tell me when your quote below is implemented - will be happy to test ;) Yeah, the [Virtual Piano] chord mode - I'll probably add it as a separate menu option. Also, you may notice that there are like "TMARCH.MMF" and "TMARCH1.MMF". Those are designed...
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Oops, found the error – to decode the Adlib commands, it was using 32-bit addressing! Now, I'm not sure how it could have worked before, since I completely got rid of the unreal (32-bit) mode... Also optimized the player routine a little bit.
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both Calculator and Space Inventors are working fine, so it's something else. What things DRO code is using, that RAD code isn't? Or, if that's a "memory issue" problem - maybe a DRO code accidentally landed to a "wrong" memory area? If it worked with UEFI but doesn't work with coreboot... But everything else is working fine at the moment - so a DRO code should be able to work too, with some tweaks
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Interesting, so it has to be something in the player. And the only thing I could think of is that this is one of the last applications that still use 32-bit registers (yes, I'm rewriting everything to 16-bit). If that's the problem, do Calculator and Space Inventors work, since they use them too?
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Yes, this problem happens with a "Standard Adlib card" in the settings as well - and only for a DRO file. RAD files are always ok for some reason
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Could you try going to the Settings app -> "Sound" -> "Set Adlib device driver" -> "Standard Adlib card (...)" and try to play a RAD/DRO file. You obviously won't hear anything, but I need to know if it is a problem in the player.
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Currently DRO works only if UEFI is flashed, and doesn't work (freezes) if a coreboot is flashed - regardless of a boot device. But a RAD PWM works everywhere. I wonder, what's the difference between DRO and RAD playbacks that might be causing this
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Wait... so now it just doesn't work on anything?
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Yes. I also returned a coreboot to G505S now and this DRO problem happens regardless of a boot device (internal virtual floppy or USB).
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Huh, that's weird. Does this also happen when booting on this motherboard from USB?
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Good day Michal, I just found a problem: many of recent tests were done on G505S with UEFI (had to temporarily flash it for debugging the Ethernet driver of KolibriOS), - with MichalOS booted from USB. When I tried putting this floppy inside a coreboot BIOS of ASUS A88XM-E desktop board: RAD playback works fine (and the sound is pretty good for a piesoelectric speaker, although the loud fans make it more difficult to listen) - but any DRO song instantly freezes OS until I reboot by a button. Hope...
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Good day Michal, I just found a problem: many of recent tests were done on G505S with UEFI (had to temporarily flash it for debugging the Ethernet driver of KolibriOS), - with MichalOS booted from USB. When I tried putting this floppy inside a coreboot BIOS of A88XM-E: RAD playback works fine (and the sound is pretty good for a piesoelectric speaker, although the loud fans make it more difficult to listen) - but any DRO song instantly freezes OS until I reboot by a button. Hope you'll be able to...
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That's because by holding a key, you are constantly interrupting the CPU, thus making it slower. I might add a speed option to the DRO player.
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Nice, thanks! Well... the quantity of the voices could be reduced, but then you'll get notes missing. I'll try it, but it probably won't be better. (and for determining primary and secondary voices – that's next to impossible.) Yeah, the chord mode - I'll probably add it as a separate menu option. Also, you may notice that there are like "TMARCH.MMF" and "TMARCH1.MMF". Those are designed to be played on 2 separate computers. But now, that I have PWM, we can play them at once!
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Yes, it sounds brilliant :) and by the way I found an easter egg: by holding a key while a music plays, you could slow down it. Some music may be even sound slightly better because of this
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Thank you so much, Michal! :-) I tried only on G505S yet but the most songs now sound really good! What a great work, truly happy to finally hear these songs in their full beauty! ;) and as for the few remaining issues, hard to understand if they are caused by PWM algorithm imperfection or the DRO/RAD file themselves. Do you think some parameters - like a quantity of voices - could be set up on the fly as a player settings? (if yes, how you'd determine what voices are main and what are secondary,...
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One thing I was also surprised about was that WOLF3D.DRO has completely different melody when in PWM... I kind of like it more :D
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Hello, this time, I'm only bringing good news! The problem is when a timer interrupt fires, MichalOS reads the current time, so it can update the time on the screen in the top right corner. This takes up precious CPU cycles, so I bypassed it! This has the side-effect that during the song's playback, the time doesn't update, but I think that's a small price to pay. Measured in DOSBox, the code is now ~5x faster, and it runs beautifully, at least on my laptop. And no, I haven't optimized the routine...
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Some songs sound surprisingly good given the circumstances, like Monkey Island or Castlevania (have you optimized your algorithm for them in particular, or it's just a coincidence) , but there's certainly a room for improvement: 1) All the DRO / RAD files are giving a too silent sound - and also, exactly two times slower (because of two timer issue you've mentioned, or something else?). Initially I thought - maybe it's only the way a PWM encoding could've been done for these files, but then encountered...
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Well, it's been a while, so I guess I'll post an update. I bring both good news and bad news. First, the good news: the code works. And in an emulator (such as DOSBox), it actually doesn't sound terrible, considering that we are playing complex waveforms in square waves. I'll attach a zip file with recordings of the beginning song from the game "The Secret of Monkey Island" with Adlib and with the PWM. It doesn't sound amazing, but it's quite good! And yes, it's a little bit out of tune, but this...
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RDTSC.APP is printing way too fast: impossible to see the numbers
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Yeah, it's just a test app - I was just playing around :) Oh yes, the PWM is exciting - I'm working on it right now! I'm facing a couple of issues (eg. the PC only has 1 timer, but I need one for PWM generation and one for the song timing), but I'll probably sort that out somehow ;)
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Still the same result, but this bug maybe could be ignored - because it's too boring to resolve and even to test ;-) https://sourceforge.net/p/michalos/tickets/40/ is much more exciting and promising
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That's weird... maybe when there wasn't a delay it was measuring incorrectly? I'm not sure. I took away the turbo mode, since that's useless. I even slowed the clock internally (still 1 second though) so that it would be less CPU intensive, but no change. I've included the current build.
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Hmmm, it doesn't work: stays at ~2.5GHz the whole time, regardless of if a Turbo is enabled or disabled.
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Whoops, I forgot to put the HLT instruction there, so the CPU is in fact running at full speed. But, I didn't want to remove this accidental "feature", so now the CPU turbo can be engaged by pressing the Space key. If the turbo status is 1, then the HLT instruction is skipped.
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It's OK :) Yes, the bad bass notes (and when I tested it, there were also some high-pitched notes which sounded horrible) are probably caused by the physical properties of the speaker. Thanks, I also think it sounds kind of cool :D The song in PWM.APP is only the first half (I had to fit it in the 32 kB free space applications have), the full song is in SWINGING.DRO. Now, I'll have to somehow implement the PWM driver in the kernel and make it translate Adlib system calls. Also, nice! I always like...
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Sorry for a late reply - didn't expect new floppies so soon to be honest ;-) Although with a few imperfections of indistinguishable bass notes (which could be partially caused by a hardware implementation of "PC speaker" routed on real speakers of this laptop) - I must say, your PWM sound is absolutely fantastic! :D Tastes better every next listening, certainly there's something magical about it... Yes, will be really happy to hear your DROs/RADs collection after you add a support for them. And your...
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