Re: Fwd: Re: [Mentalunix-developers] Installer image 0.0.1

[Dustin K. <du...@at...>]

> --- Clinton Ebadi <unk...@un...> wrote:
> > From Clinton Ebadi Fri May 17 12:40:34 2002
> > From: "Clinton Ebadi" <unk...@un...>
> > To: dK...@bi...,
> > men...@li...
> > Subject: Re: [Mentalunix-developers] Installer image
> > 0.0.1
> > Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:40:34 -0400
> >
> > I think that maybe everyone should CC stuff to
> > mentalunix-
> > dev...@li.... I have been sending
> > stuff to
> > mentalinux-developers :) (hey, only the u and i
> > switched). We need to
> > make sure everyone is informed.
good idea, i've been slacking!

> >
> > > > > hmm, well maybe an outline of the stuff you
> > changed.
> > > > I'm
> > > > > gonna take a look at Lycoris's installer as well
> > > > (modified
> > > > > Caldera Lizard).  As for packaging.  Sometime in
> > the
> > > > near
> > > > > future, I'm gonna get going and install lfs again,
> > and
> > > > try
> > > > > to build a packaging system for it. (it will be at
> > > > > lprs.sourceforge.net, but site isnt done yet...).
> > I
> > > > was
> > > > > thinking that the package system that I want, is
> > very
> > > > > similar to apt, but with the additional features
> > and
> > > > > greatness of Gentoo's emerge.  I need to sit down
> > and
> > > > go
> > > > > through all of the ebuild/emerge/portage
> > documentation,
> > > > as
> > > > > well as apt.  I'm personally thinking that we need
> > to
> > > > go
> > > > > beyond just making tasks, and designing some app
> > that
> > > > could
> > > > > be used in addition to dpkg and apt (kinda like
> > > > dselect,
> > > > > and that other app(can't remember name) do).
> > > >
> > > > Why reinvent the wheel? We can just use deity for
> > > > managing packages (if
> > > > anyone wants to browse through the package list). It
> > > > would be interesting to
> > > > do new stuff, like allow users to submit the
> > locations of
> > > > new packages they
> > > > want to be packaged. For configuration we have
> > Debconf--I
> > > > just finished my
> > > > Guile Scheme Debconf interface (but it doesn't work
> > > > because of some wierdness
> > > > with Scheme ports and normal I/O..ugh). We can force
> > our
> > > > config program to
> >
> > Just a quick update--yes, it works now. I needed to run
> > (force-output)
> > on the port I was outputting to after sending the line to
> > force the
> > line to be written (because Scheme ports are buffered).
> > Now it runs
> > fine (I think..it ran the demo script that I converted
> > into Scheme
> > fine). I'll upload this soon (as soon as I make a package
> > for it).
> >
> > > > run from postinst or we can modify PGI to do that
> > during
> > > > the install (I think
> > > > that we should work on PGI a bit because it isn't
> > quite
> > > > as slick as
> > > > Mandrake's installer yet).
> > >
> > > i was thinking about that...  what i want to do isnt
> > really
> > > make a new package manager, but make a general
> > packaging
> > > system.  I'm not gonna make another rpm, or deb, its
> > not
> > > worth it, and there's no point.  Think of something
> > more
> > > along the lines of an app that will work in conjunction
> > > with apt, rpm, emerge, whatever and allow you to
> > convert
> > > packages to your system.  Its gonna take a while, but i
> > > think its worth it.  i'll write up a white paper, and
> > get
> > > the site done in the next day or 3, then you can check
> > it
> > > out, and get a better idea what im thinkin of.
> >
> > So, a meta-packager like what MPKG ended up being planned
> > to be? Meta
> > Packing would be nice. You should look at Debian's alien
> > that can
> > convert slack tgz and rpms into debs (and I think the
> > other way
> > around). You might want to work on adding more formats
> > and better
> > support to alien while working on a better frontend for
> > it (of course,
> > is alien -i foo.not_debian_package that hard to install
> > an
> > rpm/slack_package on Debian?)
> >
basically, maybe something a bit more advanced tho.  and a simplified
interface.

> > alien -i foo.net_deb_pkg works, but what if you're trying to install a
non slack or rpm package, (of course thats easily work aroundable), or you
have a package that doesn't comply with your fs hierachy.  You will run
into problems, or (more likely) misplaced files and such.  basically, my
goal is to take any package (foo.rpm or whatever) feed it into my app
(lprs), and install the app, record its precense in a db, etc.  Now
obviously, most (all) package managers do that (to some extent).  the main
difference, is that lprs will organize stuff in a much more organized
manner (much like a ports system.  take a look at gentoo, and look at
emerge and portage for a basic idea of what im thinking of).

The main reason i decided to do this is simply because i have not been
pleased with any single packaging system.  emerge kicks ass, but the
ebuilds (packages) blow.  apt kicks ass, but i think it could be better.
alien, well, i havent used it yet, but it serves its purpose.  debports
might be great, might not.  i'll look at it, and maybe ill use that as a
starting point.  remember, the biggest advantage to using a unix
based/like system is that you could do stuff any way you want, and your
not limited.  don't think of it as reinventing the wheel, but more like
think of it as the hybrid car engines... its and advancement, bringing
concepts together, not re-inventing something already done.

> > > > As for a new pacakge format -- NO. That is a very bad
> > > > idea. We already have
> > > > RPM, DEB (and soon udeb, the dnew deb format).  I
> > think
> > > > that letting users
> > > > build packages from source if they want is a good
> > idea
> > > > (and you can do that
> > > > now with apt-get -b source --include-deps
> > package_foo). A
> > > > BSD ports like
> > > > system would be good...and here is a good start:
> > > > http://debianplanet.org/article.php?sid=3D271. Debports
> > > > doesn't build from
> > > > source, but it is a tiny perl script so it couldn't
> > be
> > > > too hard to make it
> > > > build from source instead. It would be even better if
> > it
> > > > let you rebuild the
> > > > entire system from source with a simple make
> > all...that
> > > > should go on the TODO
> > > > list (of course a user that wanted to do that should
> > just
> > > > run buildd because
> > > > it is easier [automated]).
> > > well, i already kinda responded to this above.  But,
> > > anyways, i'm not making something new and incompatible,
> > but
> > > rather something that will work with everything.  i
> > guess
> > > its kinda like an advanced ports system.
> >
the only disadvantage of designing a new package system is thats its
limited to what its installed on, and isn't (at the beginning) used on
other systems, and in other distro's.  but if done right, its solves
problems.  if nothing else, it could lead to changes made in rpm, or apt,
or dpkg, or whatever.

also, when i think of a new package system (if that is waht I would do) is
not somethign like rpm, or deb, but rather a ruleset for tgz's or
something like that.

 > > I changed a bit of debports to
make it (1) work (it was > > using /var/state/apts/lists which is now
> > /var/lib/apt/lists) and (2)
> > build from source. I don't know much perl so I'm just
> > going to upload
> > my tiny changes when I upload the 0.0.2 installer disc
> > (more on that
> > later...)

sounds good.  i'm decent at perl code. i'm no guru yet, but i do
understand it.  i'll take a look at it when you get it up.

> >
> > > > > The next week or so I'm gonna be very busy, but
> > I'll
> > > > still
> > > > > try to get some development stuff done.  This
> > weekend
> > > > I'll
> > > > > attempt to get some documentation done as well.
> > > > Sometime
> > > > > soon, we are gonna want to officially organize all
> > of
> > > > this.
> > > > >  Basically we need to get a daily (or as close to
> > daily
> > > > as
> > > > > possible) update on progress.  daily changelog(?).
> > As
> > > > well
> > > > > as start assigning tasks to certain people (mainly
> > to
> > > > help
> > > > > get stuff done!, but not necessarily saying that
> > one
> > > > person
> > > > > is restricted to working on x project...).
> > > >
> > > > I'm rewriting the website right now, so no one touch
> > > > that. I think I can (I
> > > > don't know much php..but it is quite simple and has a
> > > > nice reference manual)
> > > > add a journals page. An itneresting think to do with
> > the
> > > > journals (developers
> > > > daily logs) would be to have all of us check our
> > > > changelogs into a CVS tree
> > > > and have the page read the log entries every day. I
> > think
> > > > this would work
> > > > best if a cron job run every day checked out the file
> > and
> > > > dumped it as a
> > > > plain text file to allow the page to read it...
sounds good. if you need any help, or get caught, let me know, and i'll
see if i can help.

cvs daily dev changelogs is a great idea. keeps code documented, and keeps
us on the same page.

> > > >
> > > > As for planning: not right now. At least not long
> > term
> > > > planning. As for the
> > > > short term:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Installer images (make them work...I think the
> > > > gdk-imlib I put on the
> > > > installer cd is broken)
> > > > 2. Tweak kernel
> > > > 2. buildd system that is rebuilding specific packages
> > > > (e.g. KDE) from
> > > > unstable for woody and imports pre-built packages
> > from
> > > > other unnoficial
> > > > sources
> > > > 3. Better debports (build from source)
> > > >
> > > > Midterm:
> > > > 1. Even easier install
> > > > 2. ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And a basic long term set of goals:
> > > > 1. Full Debian mirror that builds packages using GCC
> > 3.x
> > > > instead of 2.95
> > > > (better code)
> > > > 2. Optimized Debian builds (i586, i686, athlon)
> > > > 3. Mentalinux for the PPC and other archs Debian
> > supports
> > > >
> > > > > P.S.  If/when we find a new/better project home, it
> > > > might
> > > > > be a good idea to get some project related email
> > > > address
> > > > > started.  Also, let me know if you want me to do
> > > > anything
> > > > > about some small file hosting (will be accessable
> > via
> > > > ssh).
> > > >
> > > > I'm looking for a server to host us, but it is
> > difficult
> > > > because of our hefty
> > > > requirements. I think I'll post a sourceforge news
> > item
> > > > soon (sf.net might
> > > > not like it...)
> > > lol
> >
> > > looks good.  I just got a new hard drive, so I got lots
> > of
> > > free room now!!  I'm gonna start messing around with
> > the
> > > mentalinux stuff, as well as lizard, and auto lfs.  if
> > I
> > > can get my debian cd's burnt, i can get 2.2r6 running
> > in
> > > the next day or two too.  or i'll just use mentalinux,
> > and
> > > do it via web.
> >
> > Isn't lizard licensed under the QPL?  Last time I looked
> > at it
> > (admittedly over a year ago) it was...and the QPL is
> > evil. Also, skip
> > Debian 2.2r6. If you have ATA100 it won't even
> > install...just wait for
> > me to upload the _working_ Mentalinux ISO monday or
> > tuesday (I'm
> > building it now, but won't be able to upload until monday
> > because of
> > bandwidth). The gdk_imlib on the 0.0.1 install is broken,
> > and the one
> > that I made last night has a broken python-gnome 8-(. I
> > seem that have
> > bad luck with these things (this is what I get for
> > running Debian
> > unstable).
i believe lizard does have a restrictive license.  i'm not planning on
using it in a project or anything.  just thinking of looking at it to get
idea's etc.

still havent gotten the 2.2r6 cd's burnt, and guess i wont now!!!

i got 2.2r0 installed tho.  need to do some serious updating on it tho
(its running 2.2.17!!!)


> >
> > So now I guess we should do some general planning
> > (nothing to
> > detailed). I just want to compile a basic TODO list (e.g.
> > * write
> > second stage installer scripts) and start assigning
> > tasks. I'll work on
> > the website this weekend. Also, I know of at least one
> > other person who
> > will be testing the 0.0.2 installer image (on a laptop
> > too). I think
> > that someone is also going to test it on a desktop.
> >
> > --
> > unknown_lamer (not at home)
sounds good.  0.0.1  needs lots of work,  and since you said you probably
won't be able to upload until monday or tuesday, i'll give you a short
list of my probs...
1) usb drivers are not loaded, and therefore, mouse won't work, and
therefore, graphical install won't work.
2) networking,  my nic wasn't detected, and no module was loaded for it.
3) partitioning.  pgi required every partion to have a mount point.  it
hung on either my winxp partition with ntfs, or my gentoo partition with
xfs.

i'm gonna start messing with it a little bit, and see if i can get
anything fixed on it.

i'll post updates to men...@so...

---
Dustin

> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________
> >
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>
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