Menu
▾
▴
mentalunix-developers
|
From: CyDust <clu...@ya...> - 2000-08-03 06:21:22
|
ok, my turn to rant <begin rant> First off, I have about 2 months left before i have to goto school, so I have 2 months to make money. In about 2 weeks I will have a new (20gig) hdd, and I will be able to begin some good development stuff. Right now, I am learning just about everything. I hope to get books on xml, php, dhtml, c, c++, and probably gtk+ or something like that. Im guessing that I will be a little behind in major devel and stuff until at least the end of the year. The way things are looking, Im guessing, at least to start off, I will be of most use in design, simply because I know that! I should be able to write the DTD's, but it'll be awhile until I get good at it. Also, im drawing a complete blank, what is GNUstep? My thinking is that it is a window environment thingy (term esapes me at the moment). For the installer. We need both console and graphics version, and graphics version needs to be simple, easy to use, and require very little. I'm thinking c/shellscripting for console mode, and c++, and gtk, or tk for graphics, or something like that. Well, for now, that is my rant. Look for continued rant shortly! <end first half of rant> --------------------------------------------- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! --------------------------------------------- You have chosen to receive messages from "mentalunix" by email. Reply to this message: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/bbsfrp?action=r&tid=mentalunix&sid=1600006580&mid=283 Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/config/change_mb_list Return to "mentalunix": http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix ---------------------------------------------- Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=munix_devr&.groupID=mentalunix&.groupType=&.code=IVyJGMuRxG |
|
From: Mentalspice <clu...@ya...> - 2000-08-03 14:47:59
|
GNUStep is an applications framework, just like Openstep. When it is finished, it is supposed to allow programs(that don't use any x86-dependent stuff) to work on all version of linux(with the GNUStep framworks), MacOS X, NeXT(yes, those nice little cubes from the 80's), or and anything with YellowBox(apple will stop selling yellow box runtime liscences in september...it's a shame they canceled all fo their NeXT support). Right now they have a working version of display ghostscript(well, postscript costs $$, and is non-free, but ghostscript is free, so they are using that). The interface builder is decent(but very unstable), and it's a generally good framework. I'm running a CD-Ripper that uses GNUStep. The nice thing about GNUStep is that you write once(using the GNUStep frameworks), and it _should_ compile on all the platforms GNUStep runs on(it semi-works on win32 with cygwin...but who needs windows programs anyway!). You can get lots more information from the GNUStep site( http://www.GNUStep.org ). Also, GNUStep apps just run better when you use windowmaker(you get extra featurers...possibly because windowmaker is the "official" GNUStep window manager) On the installer: I had a crazy idea: why not make it display agnostic? Just write a back-end that featured a simple, easy to use graphics API(draw button, load picture, etc)? Then, the back-end would do the real work! Just have the back-end in Gtk+ mode(or use a back-end module) and you have graphics! If you can't support graphics mode, then have it use ncurses(or its own console GUI toolkit)! It owuld make life much, much easier. And, how about having the installer modules be little XML files that defined the interface, and then ran either javascript-like programs, or just regular programs when an action happened? It's the easiest(IMHO) and best solution to the problem of making a universal installer. And why not add in a feature to upgrade other distros?(it coudl read hte packages.log most of them have, or it could query the rpm database, or even have a list of known programs and locations, and look for them) --------------------------------------------- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! --------------------------------------------- You have chosen to receive messages from "mentalunix" by email. Reply to this message: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/bbsfrp?action=r&tid=mentalunix&sid=1600006580&mid=284 Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/config/change_mb_list Return to "mentalunix": http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix ---------------------------------------------- Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=munix_devr&.groupID=mentalunix&.groupType=&.code=IVyJGMuRxG |
|
From: CyDust <clu...@ya...> - 2000-08-03 21:14:58
|
ok, thats right. Thx for the clarification. As for GNUstep.... I mean the installer, sounds great. We need to define it a little more, and clarify it, but overall, great. I just registered for classes today to, so, starting sept 24, ill be at school from about 8:30-1:30. I'll do most of my work over the weekends and such, and don't get mad at me if I get a little behind, I need to consentrate on school, so I can (hopefully) graduate on time! I am planning on opening up a cyber cafe like store thingy around here within the next year, and stuff. In about another week, I'll have another harddrive, and a pentium90, 16meg, 2gig system running slack, so, I will begin getting to work then. Right now, I have a book on beginning linux programming, and svgalib graphics programming. I also got the linux core kernel commentary, and something on hacking. I am thinking that I should finish cryptonomicon and the beginning linux programming book, and get started. Installer: ncurses sounds great for console mode. We should make a simple moduler installer backend in c, use ncurses for console front end, and gtk, tk, or something similar for graphics version. maybe we could use a html/web like interface for installer. We would need a display engine, and something to give us a good X like interface. that way, we use XML/php for create on request display. As for the feature to upgrade other distro's: How does that work. I could understand if it was an app in of it self, but, why would someone want to do that. We could, maybe add a mentalunix install that doesnt harm the config files. Basically, it would convert a, say redhat system, to a mentalunix system, without harming it. No partitioning, no editing partition tables, no formatting, etc, etc, etc. It would upgrade kernel, if needed, and upgrade any packages that the user would like. also possibly convert the rpm database to mpkg database, but flag all converted programs as originally rpm's. That way, if one was to upgrade a package using mpkg, and the old app was an rpm, ir would check for package discrepencies and differences to make sure they are compatable. If they are not, mpkg would have an option to uninstall old rpm, and install mpkg package. the previous, was also an idea for mpkg, incase you didnt pick that up! GNUstep/windowmaker stuff: sounds good, although, do we really want to make it so the user needs to use gnustep, or need use windowmaker so it runs faster? I can understand including it, and what not, but is window maker really the best choice for default. Many people out there prefer gnome or kde, and would rather not resort to using window maker, and then there are the others that just like console stuff. If we do use window maker for default, we need to remember to include the same apps for gnome and kde. Maybe we should make 2 versions of the apps, one for gnustep, on for the distro. This way, we could create an x86 version, and a nuetral version, and give the people more of a choice. I realize it means a lot more work, but whats really more important, the amount of work we have to do, or customer service and such? --------------------------------------------- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! --------------------------------------------- You have chosen to receive messages from "mentalunix" by email. Reply to this message: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/bbsfrp?action=r&tid=mentalunix&sid=1600006580&mid=285 Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/config/change_mb_list Return to "mentalunix": http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix ---------------------------------------------- Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=munix_devr&.groupID=mentalunix&.groupType=&.code=IVyJGMuRxG |
|
From: CyDust <clu...@ya...> - 2000-08-03 21:16:07
|
mpkg stuff: If i remember correctly, u said you were having probs with mpkg specs and syntax. well, i think we need a cross between dpkg and rpm. I personally love rpm's, but dpkg is great too (although, i used mainly dselect, which is really difficult to get used to). syntax- mpkg -(install/upgrade options) -(dependancy stuff) -(other stuff needed) <package>.mpkg as for the package name, foo-1.0.0-mup.mpkg (we should include a copy right, or a distro name in the filename) a copyright/ and a checksum or something to make it secure and valid. distro name only if we plan on making mpkg usable on multiple distro's, other wise it not needed. in which case the mup in the name above would be the copyright, or signature of the package creator or the person that compiled the package. mentalunix admin: check out the mentalunix site. my general idea is that mentalunix admin will be a front end that will load apps like netcon, sndsetup, printconfig, and others. that way, its completely modular, and the front end config file will be in xml, so that users can customize, or that other distributors con customize. basically, change images, and the way its displayed. That way, in testing, as long as everyone has the same version, we can share configs, and test designs and what not, basically, nearly all the config stuff needs to be user customizable. mentalunix wm: as i said before, we need to deside whether windowmaker is practical for default. but basically, we just need config files for all of the available window managers (i think thats the word is was looking for before) that are mentalunix stuff. also, are we going to use mentalunix as the official name, or just code name. i suppose its not that important, as long as we remember how to change all the names in the distro if we modify the official name. mentalunix vm: I think i'll worry about most of the stuff here since, i am the main guy behind it, but what are your ideas for it? plex86 with new front end? or a new app, based off of plex86. either way, plex should be included with distro. my idea is modify plex for backend, and create a front end thats like a vmware ide like thing. basically a development front end that would allow compiling of everything, including virtual compiles on a virtual system. basically, give me your ideas. yozilla: i probably will have someone to develop the jvm (java virtual machine) but yozilla it self will take a long time to develop. for 1.0 release of mentalunix, yozilla may be beta, but probably not. im guessing a bare html display engine, and a good overall gui. basically, i will modify generic config files to be used as a system explorer (like windows explorer) for linux (probably designed mainly for kde/gnome) unless, u have other ideas. ie capabilities, will take years probably, unless we get lots of help. well, i guess that ends my rant for now </rant> --------------------------------------------- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! --------------------------------------------- You have chosen to receive messages from "mentalunix" by email. Reply to this message: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/bbsfrp?action=r&tid=mentalunix&sid=1600006580&mid=286 Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/config/change_mb_list Return to "mentalunix": http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix ---------------------------------------------- Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=munix_devr&.groupID=mentalunix&.groupType=&.code=IVyJGMuRxG |
|
From: CoolProgrammer <coo...@ya...> - 2000-08-03 21:45:41
|
I believe the installer should have an automatic upgrade mode as well (I don't know if that's what you were getting at). It should even be able to upgrade the basic level packages without being too hard on the user (we were making this easy to use, right?). Slackware almost solves this by having the installer load itself into a ramdisk with the files it needs to run (so you can use it to upgrade any packages), but it's still a manual procedure--deleting old and installing new packages one-by-one. ~CoolProgrammer > > Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:47:58 -0700 > To: men...@li... > From: Mentalspice <clu...@ya...> > Reply-To: clu...@ya... > Subject: [Mentalunix-developers] Re: > Yozilla/GNUStep/VBScript/rants [Yahoo! Clubs: > mentalunix] > Reply-To: > men...@li... > > GNUStep is an applications framework, just like > Openstep. When it is finished, it is supposed to > allow programs(that don't use any x86-dependent > stuff) to work on all version of linux(with the > GNUStep framworks), MacOS X, NeXT(yes, those nice > little cubes from the 80's), or and anything with > YellowBox(apple will stop selling yellow box runtime > liscences in september...it's a shame they canceled > all fo their NeXT support). Right now they have a > working version of display ghostscript(well, > postscript costs $$, and is non-free, but > ghostscript is free, so they are using that). The > interface builder is decent(but very unstable), and > it's a generally good framework. I'm running a > CD-Ripper that uses GNUStep. The nice thing about > GNUStep is that you write once(using the GNUStep > frameworks), and it _should_ compile on all the > platforms GNUStep runs on(it semi-works on win32 > with cygwin...but who needs windows programs > anyway!). You can get lots more information from the > GNUStep site(! > http://www.GNUStep.org ). Also, GNUStep apps just > run better when you use windowmaker(you get extra > featurers...possibly because windowmaker is the > "official" GNUStep window manager) > > On the installer: > I had a crazy idea: why not make it display > agnostic? Just write a back-end that featured a > simple, easy to use graphics API(draw button, load > picture, etc)? Then, the back-end would do the real > work! Just have the back-end in Gtk+ mode(or use a > back-end module) and you have graphics! If you can't > support graphics mode, then have it use ncurses(or > its own console GUI toolkit)! It owuld make life > much, much easier. And, how about having the > installer modules be little XML files that defined > the interface, and then ran either javascript-like > programs, or just regular programs when an action > happened? It's the easiest(IMHO) and best solution > to the problem of making a universal installer. And > why not add in a feature to upgrade other > distros?(it coudl read hte packages.log most of them > have, or it could query the rpm database, or even > have a list of known programs and locations, and > look for them) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ |
|
From: Mentalspice <clu...@ya...> - 2000-08-03 23:16:48
|
Paragraphs are always a nice thing to use. I belive that windowmaker is the best window manager out there. Sure, it doesn't look a nice as E, but can E run on my box? NO! Why not? E needs to much RAM. I only have 16MB. WindowMaker uses a few hundred K or RAM. I can comfortably be running XMMS, abiword, Emacs, Netscape, and xpdf. Plus, windowmaker is semi GNOME compliant. IMHO KDE is ok, but not the best desktop enviroment. It has lots of features, a nice windowmanager(kwin is really, really sweet), but it is too slow. The KOM is a very nice thing, and KOffice is much more intergrated than GNOME workshop too. But to me, GNOME with windowmaker just seems mroe robust. I donm't like sawfish either. It looks nice, but it eats more RAM than it should(Besides, I don't want ot have to rewrite my windowmaker theme i made). GNOME should be the default enviroment(using kdm as the login manager). php would require loading Apache during hte install, and is that even remotley feasible? I liek the indea of defining hte interface in XML, but using javascripts(well, a special version of javascript) would be better. Just customize gecko. Add a few commands(file system stuff), and allow people to use regular old binary programs in their modules too. The back-end I was talking about would be the graphics backend--the main program would essentially just be a module loader(like inDesign...little to no features, but great module support). The display backend would be loaded alongside the installer binary(maybe as a library?). The back-end would use display modules. You simply wrote your module using XML and javascript/C, using the back-end API to draw stuff. Imagine this: <xml header stuff> <interface><!--The interface definition--> <remote src="interface.xml\> </interface> That would allwo the interface to be defined in a seperate file(for bigger modules). here is a locat interface: <xml header stuff> <interface> <local><!--tells the parser to look in this section for hte formatting--> <item type="button"><!--lets make a button--> <look="shadow" \><!--what kind of button? shadow? 3d? flat? etc--> <text>Testing</text><!--The button text--> <position x="64" y="64" \><!--the button position--> <action><!--what to do when pressed--> <exec type="program" desc="null" loc="null.app" \> <exec type="script desc="hmmm" loc="local" kind="javascript" \> </action> </local> </interface> I hope the action section was self explanitory. if not, exec executes somthing. type is what(program, script, etc), desc is hte description(Possibly to be read by the help module?), loc is the location, and kind is only usable by scripts(to tell what kind of script it is, since type has been used). Make sense? Well, the evil message board script is going to yell at me if it's any longer so... --------------------------------------------- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! --------------------------------------------- You have chosen to receive messages from "mentalunix" by email. Reply to this message: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/bbsfrp?action=r&tid=mentalunix&sid=1600006580&mid=287 Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/config/change_mb_list Return to "mentalunix": http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix ---------------------------------------------- Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=munix_devr&.groupID=mentalunix&.groupType=&.code=IVyJGMuRxG |
|
From: operating_systems_man <clu...@ya...> - 2000-08-04 07:03:59
|
all i really have to say is that i hate GNOME i use KDE we should let the user select what ever environment they would perfer --------------------------------------------- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! --------------------------------------------- You have chosen to receive messages from "mentalunix" by email. Reply to this message: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/bbsfrp?action=r&tid=mentalunix&sid=1600006580&mid=292 Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix/config/change_mb_list Return to "mentalunix": http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mentalunix ---------------------------------------------- Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=munix_devr&.groupID=mentalunix&.groupType=&.code=IVyJGMuRxG |
×
Want the latest updates on software, tech news, and AI?
Get latest updates about software, tech news, and AI from SourceForge directly in your inbox once a month.
Thanks for helping keep SourceForge clean.
X