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From: SourceForge.net <noreply@so...>  20040224 00:22:56

Bugs item #531469, was opened at 20020318 13:18 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by macrakis You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 Category: None Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: need better documentation for "assume" Initial Comment: Maxima allows for the following very powerful syntax... (C1) (assume (y>1), integrate(x*log(x),x,1,y)); 2 2 2 y LOG(y)  y 1 (D1)  +  4 4 However, the documentation is lacking: Info from file /usr/local/info/maxima.info:  Fonction: ASSUME (pred1, pred2, ...) First checks the specified predicates for redundancy and consistency with the current data base. If the predicates are consistent and nonredundant, they are added to the data base; if inconsistent or redundant, no action is taken. ASSUME returns a list whose entries are the predicates added to the data base and the atoms REDUNDANT or INCONSISTENT where applicable. (D3) FALSE  >Comment By: Stavros Macrakis (macrakis) Date: 20040223 19:11 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=588346 What exactly do you think is lacking in this documentation? You talk about the "syntax"  do you mean the comma syntax (xxx, yyy)? That is not specific to assume  and beware, the assumptions are NOT local! The comma syntax is documented under "Introduction to Expressions": >>>>> A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression. <<<<< In other words, (a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c.  You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 
From: SourceForge.net <noreply@so...>  20040226 22:25:29

Bugs item #531469, was opened at 20020318 13:18 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by macrakis You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 Category: None Group: None Status: Open >Resolution: Invalid Priority: 5 Submitted By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: need better documentation for "assume" Initial Comment: Maxima allows for the following very powerful syntax... (C1) (assume (y>1), integrate(x*log(x),x,1,y)); 2 2 2 y LOG(y)  y 1 (D1)  +  4 4 However, the documentation is lacking: Info from file /usr/local/info/maxima.info:  Fonction: ASSUME (pred1, pred2, ...) First checks the specified predicates for redundancy and consistency with the current data base. If the predicates are consistent and nonredundant, they are added to the data base; if inconsistent or redundant, no action is taken. ASSUME returns a list whose entries are the predicates added to the data base and the atoms REDUNDANT or INCONSISTENT where applicable. (D3) FALSE  Comment By: Stavros Macrakis (macrakis) Date: 20040223 19:11 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=588346 What exactly do you think is lacking in this documentation? You talk about the "syntax"  do you mean the comma syntax (xxx, yyy)? That is not specific to assume  and beware, the assumptions are NOT local! The comma syntax is documented under "Introduction to Expressions": >>>>> A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression. <<<<< In other words, (a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c.  You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 
From: SourceForge.net <noreply@so...>  20040227 13:52:51

Bugs item #531469, was opened at 20020318 13:18 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by lemire You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 Category: None Group: None Status: Open Resolution: Invalid Priority: 5 Submitted By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: need better documentation for "assume" Initial Comment: Maxima allows for the following very powerful syntax... (C1) (assume (y>1), integrate(x*log(x),x,1,y)); 2 2 2 y LOG(y)  y 1 (D1)  +  4 4 However, the documentation is lacking: Info from file /usr/local/info/maxima.info:  Fonction: ASSUME (pred1, pred2, ...) First checks the specified predicates for redundancy and consistency with the current data base. If the predicates are consistent and nonredundant, they are added to the data base; if inconsistent or redundant, no action is taken. ASSUME returns a list whose entries are the predicates added to the data base and the atoms REDUNDANT or INCONSISTENT where applicable. (D3) FALSE  >Comment By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Date: 20040227 08:40 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=73205 Two things are lacking: 1) assume is poorly explained or maybe implemented (?). You say it isn't local... right... then if I do assume(y>0); followed by assume(x>0); I would expect the system to know x>0 and y>0. It doesn't. As far as I can tell, each call to assume reset the set of assumptions to whatever you provide. The documentation mention something about the "current database". I think "assume" clears this database or ignores it. (C2) assume(y>0); (D2) [y > 0] (C3) assume(x>0); (D3) [x > 0] (C4) (In D3, I would expect [x>0,y>0] or something similar.) 2) You are damn good if you can know from the documentation that "(a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c." But that's good to know. I would like to see that much written up about it... Here's what I get from "Introduction to Expressions"... """ Most things in MAXIMA are expressions. A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression.""" I guess I'm supposed to understand that "C comma" means... what... the C language?  Comment By: Stavros Macrakis (macrakis) Date: 20040223 19:11 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=588346 What exactly do you think is lacking in this documentation? You talk about the "syntax"  do you mean the comma syntax (xxx, yyy)? That is not specific to assume  and beware, the assumptions are NOT local! The comma syntax is documented under "Introduction to Expressions": >>>>> A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression. <<<<< In other words, (a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c.  You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 
From: SourceForge.net <noreply@so...>  20040227 13:54:36

Bugs item #531469, was opened at 20020318 13:18 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by lemire You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 >Category: Documentation Group: None Status: Open Resolution: Invalid Priority: 5 Submitted By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: need better documentation for "assume" Initial Comment: Maxima allows for the following very powerful syntax... (C1) (assume (y>1), integrate(x*log(x),x,1,y)); 2 2 2 y LOG(y)  y 1 (D1)  +  4 4 However, the documentation is lacking: Info from file /usr/local/info/maxima.info:  Fonction: ASSUME (pred1, pred2, ...) First checks the specified predicates for redundancy and consistency with the current data base. If the predicates are consistent and nonredundant, they are added to the data base; if inconsistent or redundant, no action is taken. ASSUME returns a list whose entries are the predicates added to the data base and the atoms REDUNDANT or INCONSISTENT where applicable. (D3) FALSE  >Comment By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Date: 20040227 08:41 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=73205 Two things are lacking: 1) assume is poorly explained or maybe implemented (?). You say it isn't local... right... then if I do assume(y>0); followed by assume(x>0); I would expect the system to know x>0 and y>0. It doesn't. As far as I can tell, each call to assume reset the set of assumptions to whatever you provide. The documentation mention something about the "current database". I think "assume" clears this database or ignores it. (C2) assume(y>0); (D2) [y > 0] (C3) assume(x>0); (D3) [x > 0] (C4) (In D3, I would expect [x>0,y>0] or something similar.) 2) You are damn good if you can know from the documentation that "(a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c." But that's good to know. I would like to see that much written up about it... Here's what I get from "Introduction to Expressions"... """ Most things in MAXIMA are expressions. A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression.""" I guess I'm supposed to understand that "C comma" means... what... the C language?  Comment By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Date: 20040227 08:40 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=73205 Two things are lacking: 1) assume is poorly explained or maybe implemented (?). You say it isn't local... right... then if I do assume(y>0); followed by assume(x>0); I would expect the system to know x>0 and y>0. It doesn't. As far as I can tell, each call to assume reset the set of assumptions to whatever you provide. The documentation mention something about the "current database". I think "assume" clears this database or ignores it. (C2) assume(y>0); (D2) [y > 0] (C3) assume(x>0); (D3) [x > 0] (C4) (In D3, I would expect [x>0,y>0] or something similar.) 2) You are damn good if you can know from the documentation that "(a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c." But that's good to know. I would like to see that much written up about it... Here's what I get from "Introduction to Expressions"... """ Most things in MAXIMA are expressions. A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression.""" I guess I'm supposed to understand that "C comma" means... what... the C language?  Comment By: Stavros Macrakis (macrakis) Date: 20040223 19:11 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=588346 What exactly do you think is lacking in this documentation? You talk about the "syntax"  do you mean the comma syntax (xxx, yyy)? That is not specific to assume  and beware, the assumptions are NOT local! The comma syntax is documented under "Introduction to Expressions": >>>>> A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression. <<<<< In other words, (a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c.  You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 
From: SourceForge.net <noreply@so...>  20040227 14:31:25

Bugs item #531469, was opened at 20020318 13:18 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by macrakis You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 Category: Documentation Group: None Status: Open Resolution: Invalid Priority: 5 Submitted By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: need better documentation for "assume" Initial Comment: Maxima allows for the following very powerful syntax... (C1) (assume (y>1), integrate(x*log(x),x,1,y)); 2 2 2 y LOG(y)  y 1 (D1)  +  4 4 However, the documentation is lacking: Info from file /usr/local/info/maxima.info:  Fonction: ASSUME (pred1, pred2, ...) First checks the specified predicates for redundancy and consistency with the current data base. If the predicates are consistent and nonredundant, they are added to the data base; if inconsistent or redundant, no action is taken. ASSUME returns a list whose entries are the predicates added to the data base and the atoms REDUNDANT or INCONSISTENT where applicable. (D3) FALSE  >Comment By: Stavros Macrakis (macrakis) Date: 20040227 09:18 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=588346 I agree that the documentation could be made MUCH MUCH clearer. But I am puzzled by some of your other remarks: > if I do assume(y>0); followed byassume(x>0); > I would expect the system to know x>0 and y>0. > It doesn't. It does on my test system, Maxima 5.9.0 gcl 2.5.0 W2k: assume(x>0); assume(y>0); is( x>0 and y>0 ) => true If this fails on your system, please include a transcript of a session, and full configuration information from bug_report(). > each call to assume reset the set of assumptions No. Not on my system, at least. If it does, this is a bug. The only assumptions that are reset are those added by Asksign  that is also explicit in describe(asksign): "recorded in the data base for the duration of the current computation (one 'Cline')". > In D3, I would expect [x>0,y>0] or something similar. As documented explicitly in the text you quote, the return value reports on the predicates **added to** the data base. To see the list of all current assumptions, use facts(). > I guess I'm supposed to understand that "C comma" > means... what... the C language? Yes, the C programming language has the same construct. Of course, if you happen not to know C, that is not very helpful. Again, I agree that the documentation needs to be improved.  Comment By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Date: 20040227 08:41 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=73205 Two things are lacking: 1) assume is poorly explained or maybe implemented (?). You say it isn't local... right... then if I do assume(y>0); followed by assume(x>0); I would expect the system to know x>0 and y>0. It doesn't. As far as I can tell, each call to assume reset the set of assumptions to whatever you provide. The documentation mention something about the "current database". I think "assume" clears this database or ignores it. (C2) assume(y>0); (D2) [y > 0] (C3) assume(x>0); (D3) [x > 0] (C4) (In D3, I would expect [x>0,y>0] or something similar.) 2) You are damn good if you can know from the documentation that "(a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c." But that's good to know. I would like to see that much written up about it... Here's what I get from "Introduction to Expressions"... """ Most things in MAXIMA are expressions. A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression.""" I guess I'm supposed to understand that "C comma" means... what... the C language?  Comment By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Date: 20040227 08:40 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=73205 Two things are lacking: 1) assume is poorly explained or maybe implemented (?). You say it isn't local... right... then if I do assume(y>0); followed by assume(x>0); I would expect the system to know x>0 and y>0. It doesn't. As far as I can tell, each call to assume reset the set of assumptions to whatever you provide. The documentation mention something about the "current database". I think "assume" clears this database or ignores it. (C2) assume(y>0); (D2) [y > 0] (C3) assume(x>0); (D3) [x > 0] (C4) (In D3, I would expect [x>0,y>0] or something similar.) 2) You are damn good if you can know from the documentation that "(a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c." But that's good to know. I would like to see that much written up about it... Here's what I get from "Introduction to Expressions"... """ Most things in MAXIMA are expressions. A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression.""" I guess I'm supposed to understand that "C comma" means... what... the C language?  Comment By: Stavros Macrakis (macrakis) Date: 20040223 19:11 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=588346 What exactly do you think is lacking in this documentation? You talk about the "syntax"  do you mean the comma syntax (xxx, yyy)? That is not specific to assume  and beware, the assumptions are NOT local! The comma syntax is documented under "Introduction to Expressions": >>>>> A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression. <<<<< In other words, (a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c.  You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 
From: SourceForge.net <noreply@so...>  20040227 16:45:04

Bugs item #531469, was opened at 20020318 13:18 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by lemire You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 Category: Documentation Group: None Status: Open Resolution: Invalid Priority: 5 Submitted By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: need better documentation for "assume" Initial Comment: Maxima allows for the following very powerful syntax... (C1) (assume (y>1), integrate(x*log(x),x,1,y)); 2 2 2 y LOG(y)  y 1 (D1)  +  4 4 However, the documentation is lacking: Info from file /usr/local/info/maxima.info:  Fonction: ASSUME (pred1, pred2, ...) First checks the specified predicates for redundancy and consistency with the current data base. If the predicates are consistent and nonredundant, they are added to the data base; if inconsistent or redundant, no action is taken. ASSUME returns a list whose entries are the predicates added to the data base and the atoms REDUNDANT or INCONSISTENT where applicable. (D3) FALSE  >Comment By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Date: 20040227 11:32 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=73205 No, you are right, there is no bug here except for a "request for enhancement" regarding the documentation. I'm not bitching about it since, of course, I could just sit down and start writting document. But short of that, I hope it is useful to at least document in which way the documentation is wong. I didn't know about "facts()". Now, looking at the description of facts, I realize that I don't know about "contexts" in maxima as well. Let's not go there today. Info from file /usr/share/info/maxima.info:  Function: FACTS (item) If 'item' is the name of a context then FACTS returns a list of the facts in the specified context. If no argument is given, it lists the current context. If 'item' is not the name of a context then it returns a list of the facts known about 'item' in the current context. Facts that are active, but in a different context, are not listed.  Comment By: Stavros Macrakis (macrakis) Date: 20040227 09:18 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=588346 I agree that the documentation could be made MUCH MUCH clearer. But I am puzzled by some of your other remarks: > if I do assume(y>0); followed byassume(x>0); > I would expect the system to know x>0 and y>0. > It doesn't. It does on my test system, Maxima 5.9.0 gcl 2.5.0 W2k: assume(x>0); assume(y>0); is( x>0 and y>0 ) => true If this fails on your system, please include a transcript of a session, and full configuration information from bug_report(). > each call to assume reset the set of assumptions No. Not on my system, at least. If it does, this is a bug. The only assumptions that are reset are those added by Asksign  that is also explicit in describe(asksign): "recorded in the data base for the duration of the current computation (one 'Cline')". > In D3, I would expect [x>0,y>0] or something similar. As documented explicitly in the text you quote, the return value reports on the predicates **added to** the data base. To see the list of all current assumptions, use facts(). > I guess I'm supposed to understand that "C comma" > means... what... the C language? Yes, the C programming language has the same construct. Of course, if you happen not to know C, that is not very helpful. Again, I agree that the documentation needs to be improved.  Comment By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Date: 20040227 08:41 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=73205 Two things are lacking: 1) assume is poorly explained or maybe implemented (?). You say it isn't local... right... then if I do assume(y>0); followed by assume(x>0); I would expect the system to know x>0 and y>0. It doesn't. As far as I can tell, each call to assume reset the set of assumptions to whatever you provide. The documentation mention something about the "current database". I think "assume" clears this database or ignores it. (C2) assume(y>0); (D2) [y > 0] (C3) assume(x>0); (D3) [x > 0] (C4) (In D3, I would expect [x>0,y>0] or something similar.) 2) You are damn good if you can know from the documentation that "(a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c." But that's good to know. I would like to see that much written up about it... Here's what I get from "Introduction to Expressions"... """ Most things in MAXIMA are expressions. A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression.""" I guess I'm supposed to understand that "C comma" means... what... the C language?  Comment By: Daniel Lemire (lemire) Date: 20040227 08:40 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=73205 Two things are lacking: 1) assume is poorly explained or maybe implemented (?). You say it isn't local... right... then if I do assume(y>0); followed by assume(x>0); I would expect the system to know x>0 and y>0. It doesn't. As far as I can tell, each call to assume reset the set of assumptions to whatever you provide. The documentation mention something about the "current database". I think "assume" clears this database or ignores it. (C2) assume(y>0); (D2) [y > 0] (C3) assume(x>0); (D3) [x > 0] (C4) (In D3, I would expect [x>0,y>0] or something similar.) 2) You are damn good if you can know from the documentation that "(a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c." But that's good to know. I would like to see that much written up about it... Here's what I get from "Introduction to Expressions"... """ Most things in MAXIMA are expressions. A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression.""" I guess I'm supposed to understand that "C comma" means... what... the C language?  Comment By: Stavros Macrakis (macrakis) Date: 20040223 19:11 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=588346 What exactly do you think is lacking in this documentation? You talk about the "syntax"  do you mean the comma syntax (xxx, yyy)? That is not specific to assume  and beware, the assumptions are NOT local! The comma syntax is documented under "Introduction to Expressions": >>>>> A sequence of expressions can be made into an expression by separating them by commas and putting parentheses around them. This is similar to the C comma expression. <<<<< In other words, (a,b,c) evaluates a then b then c, and returns the value of c.  You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=104933&aid=531469&group_id=4933 
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