mac-emacs-users

[Mac-emacs-users] Is anybody out there?

[Robert P. <rpo...@ap...>]

I sent an e-mail a few weeks ago and haven't heard from anyone.  I don't
know if my e-mail account is the problem or if there are no emacs on the Mac
users.  I have a couple of questions about using emacs but hadn't been able
to find anyone that uses it.

Thanks for a reply!

Robert Pollard

[Mac-emacs-users] Printing

[Robert P. <rpo...@po...>]

Hello,

I believe this should be a quick and easy question.  Can you print from 
emacs in Mac OS 9.x?
I come up with the error "Searching for program: unknown Error (100), 
pr" when I execute M-x print-buffer.

Also, do you know how to use the Hardcopy commands in Mac OS X or do you 
just have to use the print option in the File menu?

Thanks in advance.

Robert

[Mac-emacs-users] font-lock problem

[Alp A. <ak...@pi...>]

Hi.  Until now, I've been happily using font-lock with the Mac port of
emacs 20.6, but I'm currently experiencing some strange behavior. 

If I evaluate

	(custom-set-variables
	  '(tab-width 2))

then the font-lock faces in dired mode change! Before, the various files,
folders, aliases, etc., were displayed in different faces according to
type.  After setting the tab-width, dired displays the items in some
buffers normally, but in other folders every item is displayed using
font-lock-warning-face.  

I haven't noticed any changes in font-lock behavior for any other mode
(I've tried latex, outline, lisp, and c).

Can anyone replicate this?  Any suggestions for a solution?

Thanks,

Alp

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] 256M limitation in emacs-21

[Andrew C. <ak...@i-...>]

Hi Don,

> Any idea of what I should be looking at changing to get around the
> memory limitation? (I read about the 32bit handle issue... would
> changing these to be 64bit solve the issue?)

Obviously I don't know the complete answer to that.  It would seem
that if Emacs objects use 64 bits, pointers will be represented
correctly.  There is some information on compiling 64-bit Emacses on
Solaris and some other machines in etc/NEWS and etc/MACHINES that may
help.

You can also look at what is done in the 18.59 port to relocate Emacs
after it is loaded.

> Or would the memory allocation code need to be adjusted so emacs on
> the mac doesn't allow itself to address memory above 256M?

No, in Classic, applications use physical addresses and can be loaded
anywhere in memory.

> Is there any way to register as a pretester? (Like to get the newest
> patches to it if possible....)

An advice I saw another developer give in a newsgroup was to write to
Gerd Moellmann (gerd AT gnu.org), the head maintainer for Emacs, and ask
him to add you to the pretester list.

Andrew.

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] 256M limitation in emacs-21

[Don A. <do...@pe...>]

On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Andrew Choi wrote:
> I know of no Emacs implementation that will run under Mac OS Classic
> on a machine with more than 256M of RAM.  AFAIK, no one is working on
> this.  I invite everyone to do so.

Ok... That's what I feared.

Any idea of what I should be looking at changing to get around the memory
limitation? (I read about the 32bit handle issue... would changing these
to be 64bit solve the issue?)

Or would the memory allocation code need to be adjusted so emacs on the
mac doesn't allow itself to address memory above 256M?

As I am substantially less familiar with the emacs code than you are, some
guidance would be very helpfull...

> Version 21 of GNU Emacs is in pretest and should be available only to
> pretesters at the moment. That distribution has the Mac port (for Mac
> OS Classic) integrated into it, which adds menus and scroll bars
> support.  It does not run on machines with more than 256M of RAM
> either.

Ahh... Well, then I accidentally got a copy.... ;-) It works well in
classic (with a couple issues) so long as you have less than 256M... Is
there any way to register as a pretester? (Like to get the newest patches
to it if possible....)

> I have (almost) finished a port of GNU Emacs 21 to Mac OS X which uses
> the BSD Unix calls and Carbon API.

Cool! I was playing a bit with the terminal version of emacs in
OSX... but missed the window-mode features... good to hear that someone is
carbonizing it...

		Don Armstrong

---------------------------------------------------
UC Riverside          |   .naidnE elttil atah I
Residential Computing |
http://resnet.ucr.edu | http://www.donarmstrong.com
---------------------------------------------------

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] 256M limitation in emacs-21

[Andrew C. <ak...@i-...>]

Hi Don,

I know of no Emacs implementation that will run under Mac OS Classic
on a machine with more than 256M of RAM.  AFAIK, no one is working on
this.  I invite everyone to do so.

Version 21 of GNU Emacs is in pretest and should be available only to
pretesters at the moment.  That distribution has the Mac port (for Mac
OS Classic) integrated into it, which adds menus and scroll bars
support.  It does not run on machines with more than 256M of RAM
either.

I have (almost) finished a port of GNU Emacs 21 to Mac OS X which uses
the BSD Unix calls and Carbon API.  This port has most of the features
of Emacs as when it is run in Unix and X Window (dump-emacs,
synchronous and asynchronous processes, etc.).  It will of course run
on machines with any amount of RAM *under Mac OS X*.  This has not
been integrated into the main distribution and I plan to release it
when GNU Emacs version 21 is released.

Andrew.

[Mac-emacs-users] 256M limitation in emacs-21

[Don A. <do...@pe...>]

I know there was some commentary on the 256M limitation being removed in
emacs-21... how is that work proceeding?

I tried to run the newest emacs-21 that I could get ahold of on my G4 with
384M, but it is still having issues with crashing on startup (invokes
Heap_Corruption).... works beautifully with less than 256M of ram.

Any information on this would be wonderfull... (including a link to where
I could download more recent source code if this issue has already been
resolved...) [And if it involves digging in source, I don't really mind at
all, I'd just like to avoid it if possible... ;-)]

Thanks!

		Don Armstrong

---------------------------------------------------
UC Riverside          |   .naidnE elttil atah I
Residential Computing |
http://resnet.ucr.edu | http://www.donarmstrong.com
---------------------------------------------------

[Mac-emacs-users] Confirmation of Workaround

[Thompson,Roger <tho...@oc...>]

Andrew Choi in the Mac Emacs FAQ mentioned a workaround he heard of when one
has more tha 256 MB of address space on a Mac in the Classic environment. I
can confirm that this workaround works. 
I have an iMac DV (lime) running OS 9.1 with all of the appropropriate
update as of 9 Mar 01. 
I added 256 MB of RAM; plus the original 64 MB yielding 320 MB.
I turned off virtual memory (this caused the system to use (in mycase) about
107 MB of memory). 
I set the RAM disk to have about 100 MB of RAM (you choose your own value).
reboot
 
double click the alias and presto Mac Emacs was on the air.
 
I hope this helps.
 
Roger
Thompson

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] A newbie/uneducated question

[Andrew C. <ak...@i-...>]

Hi Roger,

> [...]  My request is simply an explanation (or a pointer to one) of
> why this is so. I realize that with the advent of OS X, fixing the
> problem in the classic environment does not make sense.

Unfortunately AFAIK there is no good description of the cause of the
problem.  One can however find the reason by examining the code.  I
will try to explain briefly.  Emacs uses 32-bit words to represent
Lisp objects, which include integers, and pointers to all sorts of
objects like windows, buffers, etc.  It uses 4 bits of each word for a
3-bit type tag and 1-bit garbage collection mark.  That leaves 28-bit
for integer values, pointer values, etc.  Since buffer positions (such
as point and mark) are Lisp integers (and these can be negative),
most Emacs builds can only handle files no larger than 2^27 = 128M.
On Mac OS classic, applications use physical addresses so with 28
bits for pointers, Emacs will only run correctly on machines with no
more than 256M memory.

If you are planning on using Mac OS X, it comes with a port of GNU
Emacs 20.7 which works in a text terminal.  There is also a Carbonized
version of GNU Emacs 20.7 which has a GUI (See
http://www.porkrind.org/david/emacs/).

I have been trying to port GNU Emacs 21 (which is in pretest and is
not publicly available yet) to Mac OS X.  It currently already runs in
a text terminal (in color!).  A GUI version should come soon.  All of
these will run on machines will any amount of memory.  They will
however still have the 128M buffer limitation.

Andrew.

[Mac-emacs-users] A newbie/uneducated question

[Thompson,Roger <tho...@oc...>]

Before I ask this  let me say that I did look through the archives (what few
message there are) to find an answer to this question. Due to the really
cheap proice of memory right now, I went and got a 256 MB module for my
iMac. THis of course renders emacs inoperable--much to my dismay. Andew Choi
in a message last year said that ther is no easy way to make emacs work on a
machine with more that 256 MB of main (virtual too) memory in the classic
environment. I do not dispute this, since I've not programmed for mac. My
request is simply an explanation (or a pointer to one) of why this is so. I
realize that with the advent of OS X, fixing the problem in the classic
environment does not make sense.
 
Thank you for you consideration.
 
Roger
Thompson
 
 

[Mac-emacs-users] Re: crash on startup

[Andrew C. <ak...@i-...>]

> A few months ago a user sent a message concerning crashes on
> startup.  An answer was mentioning that Mac Emacs was crashing on
> machines with more the 256 MB.  I just added a memory module, and my
> machine has 320 MB ... and now Mac Emacs crashes to reboot.
> 
> I just like to know if there is a solution to this in a forseable
> future.

Jean,

I do not know of any simple way to modify the Mac port of Emacs to
work with more than 256M of memory.

Mac OS X comes with a port of Emacs that runs only in terminal mode.
There is also a port that runs in window mode:

  http://www.porkrind.org/david/emacs/

I am working on version 21 of Emacs which is now in pretest and will
be released "soon".  Unfortunately it will have the same problem with
memory when run under Mac OS Classic.  I will try to get a version to
run under Mac OS X at least in terminal mode when it comes out.  One
very nice thing is RMAIL, Gnus, ediff, grep, etc. all work!  The Mac
OS X versions will, of course, not have the memory problem.

Andrew.

[Mac-emacs-users] multi-platform Emacs for a large university

[<Tom...@nc...>]

Greetings from North Carolina State University:

NCSU is a large US university (n(students) ~= 30000) with an
engineering focus. Computationally we run a mix of architectures in a
semi-unified system optimistically called "Unity." The "client side"
includes Solaris

http://www.ncsu.edu/it/pub/unity.html

NT4

http://www.ncsu.edu/mtip/zen/labs/

Red Hat Linux

http://www.linux.ncsu.edu/realmkit/

and Mac

http://www.ncsu.edu/mac/

Unfortunately Unity users have not IMHO been well exposed to Emacs:
for the past 5 years, Emacs has only been only available on Solaris,
and the default version has been (and is still) 19.29 (though 20.3 is
there for those who know how to access it).

However, as part of NCSU's Open Source Initiative, our ITD
(Information Technology Division) has decided to better integrate
Emacs into NCSU computing; I have been invited to help. If all goes
well, filespace will be made available, and packages will be made more
user-friendly via such means as the Novell Application Launcher on NT
and our "add" packaging scripts on the Unixen. (Note that I believe
we'll be deploying GNU, not XEmacs, unless there's some very
compelling reason(s).)

Not being a "major league" sysadmin, I'd appreciate any assistance
anyone might care to offer regarding how to do this, especially from
folks who have actually done this :-) I want to help NCSU deploy Emacs
in such a fashion that:

* JDE works on as well as possible, on as many platforms as possible.
  Note that JDE appears to have been a major consideration in ITD's
  decision; NCSU's computer science curriculum recently moved from C++
  to Java as its primary pedagogical language.

* as many of the client platforms as possible are covered, with the
  newest stable versions on each.

* it works on AFS. This is our primary filesystem for all clients.

* users have easy-to-use multiplatform configurability. A single
  .emacs would be great, but alternative mechanisms would be
  considered. Note that few users use all of our client platforms
  (especially not at the same time), but there are substantial numbers
  of users that use either Solaris and Linux, Solaris and NT, and
  NT and Mac.

Your input would be appreciated, especially regarding such matters as

- how to setup JDE and JDK(s) for flexibility and ease-of-use.

- what to put in site-lisp and what to keep separate

- how to organize directory trees

- how to do default .emacs

- Mac Emacs. I know it's there, but I've never used it. I'll admit
  that it's my lowest-priority platform, but I'd like to provide it if
  possible.

- anything I might have missed :-)

Pointers to documentation especially appreciated, but any assistance
is appreciated.

TIA, Tom...@nc...

[Mac-emacs-users] rmail

[John C. L. <jc...@po...>]

I'm having trouble getting email up and working with Mr. Choi's 
latest release of emacs for macs. I am using Eudora 4.3.1 rather than 
Eudora Lite, which seems no longer to be available, and running it 
under system 8.6. As per instructions, I changed the three references 
to "Eudora Lite" in mac-win.el (lines 1189, 1367, 1386) to read 
"Eudora". I am able to send mail, but not receive it via rmail. It 
seems as if emacs is not recognizing my inbox. The following message 
occurs every time:

BABYL OPTIONS: -*- rmail -*-
Version: 5
Labels:
Note:   This is the header of an rmail file.
Note:   If you are seeing it in rmail,
Note:    it means the file has no messages in it.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Dr. John C. Lamoreaux
Department of Religious Studies
Southern Meth

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] AucTeX mode

[Andrew C. <ak...@i-...>]

> Is anyone successfully using AucTeX mode with mac-emacs.  [...]

Hi Reg,

It is a bit harder to byte compile and install the auctex package
entirely on the Mac than to do so for calc because the latter's
installation script is written in Emacs lisp.

One can however take the already compiled and installed lisp files for
auctex and the file tex-site.el from a Linux machine and use it on the
Mac.  To try this download the following two files:

  ftp://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/pub/mac-emacs/auctex/auctex.tgz
  ftp://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/pub/mac-emacs/auctex/tex-site.el

Untar the first (if StuffIt Expander is used, remember to ask it not
to convert newlines because it contains compiled lisp files).  Put the
resulting directory (auctex) and the file tex-site.el in the directory
site-lisp.  Modify load-path so the site-lisp is also search.  Then
tell emacs to use the auctex package.  The last two steps can be
accomplished by including the following two expressions in .emacs.

  (setq load-path (cons "~emacs/site-lisp" load-path))
  (require 'tex-site)

Of course current only the "editing" functions will work and not the
"TeX commands".  To invoke TeX directly from Emacs, one needs to write
a few small Lisp functions to send out the appropriate AppleScript
commands.  Also the auctex mode would be more convenient if a menubar
can be used.  I am working on a new version of Emacs which supports
menubars.  This will be released hopefully very soon.  For now please
use M-`.

Andrew.

[Mac-emacs-users] AucTeX mode

[Reg B. <do...@dy...>]

Is anyone successfully using AucTeX mode with mac-emacs.  Once upon a time,
I managed to set it up on my Unix box, but despite a couple of hours of
fiddling, mac-emacs keeps on trying to use the tex mode that comes with
mac-emacs.

I noticed Andrew's instructions for setting up calc on mac-emacs.  Thanks -
very useful, especially for Unix people like myself finding ourselves in a
sea of user friendliness :-)

Reg.

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] 2 questions.

[Andrew C. <ak...@i-...>]

Hi Daniel,

> 1. Is it possible to set the the title bar of the initial frame to
> 'emacs'?  I couldn't figured out how to do this.

Add

  (modify-frame-parameters (selected-frame) '((title . "emacs")))

to your .emacs file.  You can of course combined it with the call to
modify-frame-parameters that is already there.

> 2. I noticed that with hanoi and a few elisp programs, emacs would slow
> down after a few moments, and speed back up if I wiggled the mouse
> or type.  [I also found out that if you hold shift long enough it
> turns on 'sticky shift keys' feature on the mac, thought it was
> emacs specific for a while ].  Anyway I like to code in elisp from
> time to time, is the anyway to alter this?  Give emacs a bigger
> slice when keyboard idle?

I have received reports of this but I cannot repeat it on my machine.
So I do not know how it might be fixed.  The constants passed to
WaitNextEvent have been changed a few times so make sure you get the
latest version, 20.6 d5.  They may have something to do with the
problem.  I am working on a new version which supports microsecond
timers: d5's timers only have one second resolution.  That may also be
the source of the problem.  The new version will be released, as they
say, real soon.

The sticky shift key (hit five times in a row) is of course a Mac OS
feature (Easy Access?).  Emacs does not do anything special to enable
or disable it.

> Also I noticed the recover-file function was broken as it was trying
> to spawn a subshell ls process just to display 1 line of info, I
> rewrote it using insert-directory for my own us and seems to work
> fine so far, should I post it if anyone is interested?  The other
> recover functions all seem to have the same problem
> (recover-session) etc.

It will be most helpful if you give permission to incorporate your
code should you decide to post.

Andrew.

[Mac-emacs-users] 2 questions.

[Daniel L. <dla...@ea...>]

1.  Is it possible to set the the title bar of the initial frame to 'emacs'?
    I couldn't figured out how to do this.

2.  I noticed that with hanoi and a few elisp programs, emacs would slow down
after a few moments, and speed back up if I wiggled the mouse or type.
[I also found out that if you hold shift long enough it turns on 'sticky shift
keys' feature on the mac, thought it was emacs specific for a while ].
Anyway  I like to code in elisp from time to time, is the anyway to alter
this?  Give emacs a bigger slice when keyboard idle?

Also I noticed the recover-file function was broken as it was trying to spawn
a subshell ls process just to display 1 line of info,  I rewrote it using
insert-directory for my own us and seems to work fine so far, should I post it
if anyone is interested?   The other recover functions all seem to have the
same problem (recover-session) etc.

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] Code Warrior & Mac Emacs

[Andrew C. <ch...@cs...>]

> Any way to make CW notice that I've changed a file outside of it
> using Emacs?  [...]

I believe you can send an AppleScript command from Emacs to the
CodeWarrior IDE to ask it to "touch" the file.  Please refer to the
Scripting Reference documentation and the DOC string for
do-apple-script.  This can be made to happen automatically by setting
it up in the after-save-hook.  You should find the Lisp function
unix-filename-to-mac useful.

[Mac-emacs-users] Code Warrior & Mac Emacs

[Jonathan A. <jda...@bu...>]

Any way to make CW notice that I've changed a file outside of it using Emacs?
It seems quite hit or miss as to whether it will notice. I've tried checking the
"Use External Editor" option, but that doesn't seem to do anything. I usually 
have to double click and open the file in CW, then close it to make it notice.
Using the check all the dates button works too, of course, but that quite a hammer
for such a small nail.
-- 
+====================================================+
| Jonathan Arnold (mailto:jda...@bu...)     |
| Havas Interactive             HyperStudio Engineer |
| http://www.buddydog.org http://www.hyperstudio.com |
+====================================================+

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man. -- Mark Twain

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] crash on start-up

[Michael W. J. W. p. 302-695-9. <Mic...@us...>]

>Hi Michael,
>
> > I only occasionally use Emacs CW d5 on my PPC G3 System 8.6.  When I
> > came back to use it again, it kicked me into Macsbug on startup and
> > needed a reboot.  Adding memory to a minimum of 22 M did not help.
> > It starts up okay if I restart with extensions off.  I suspect an
> > extension conflict.  I have conflict catcher.  Any tips or ideas?
>
>Thanks for reporting the problem.  I have not received any reports of
>conflicts with extensions.  Of course yours may be a new one.
>However, do you have any extensions that deal with memory?
>Specifically ones that makes the Mac to appear to have more than 256M
>of it?  Emacs crashes on machines with more than 256M of real or
>virtual memory. 


Yes! When I turned off 600 megs of virtual memory, leaving my 224 megs of real memory, it starts up without problem.


> It seems to be a hard problem to fix. 

Rats.


> I should add
>some code to detect that situation and quit more gracefully.


That would be nice, this problem may bite more people as memory and disk space become cheaper.  Of course, you DO mention it in the FAQ!  My baddie.


> > I have some logs from Macsbug if anyone is interested.  Although it
> > may be a coincidence, I notice that xemacs-19.14 also kicks me into
> > macsbug on startup.
>
>Yes, please send it to me.


I will send you the logs separately.

Thanks! 

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] crash on start-up

[Andrew C. <ch...@cs...>]

Hi Michael,

> I only occasionally use Emacs CW d5 on my PPC G3 System 8.6.  When I
> came back to use it again, it kicked me into Macsbug on startup and
> needed a reboot.  Adding memory to a minimum of 22 M did not help.
> It starts up okay if I restart with extensions off.  I suspect an
> extension conflict.  I have conflict catcher.  Any tips or ideas?

Thanks for reporting the problem.  I have not received any reports of
conflicts with extensions.  Of course yours may be a new one.
However, do you have any extensions that deal with memory?
Specifically ones that makes the Mac to appear to have more than 256M
of it?  Emacs crashes on machines with more than 256M of real or
virtual memory.  It seems to be a hard problem to fix.  I should add
some code to detect that situation and quit more gracefully.

> I have some logs from Macsbug if anyone is interested.  Although it
> may be a coincidence, I notice that xemacs-19.14 also kicks me into
> macsbug on startup.

Yes, please send it to me.

> PS I notice in "get info" that it says 20.5 where I expected to see
> 20.6.

It's just my oversight: I forget to change the version string in one
of the source files.

Andrew.

[Mac-emacs-users] crash on start-up

[Michael W. J. W. p. 302-695-9. <Mic...@us...>]

I only occasionally use Emacs CW d5 on my PPC G3 System 8.6.  When I came back to use it again, it kicked me into Macsbug on startup and needed a reboot.  Adding memory to a minimum of 22 M did not help.  It starts up okay if I restart with extensions off.  I suspect an extension conflict.  I have conflict catcher.  Any tips or ideas?


I have some logs from Macsbug if anyone is interested.  Although it may be a coincidence, I notice that xemacs-19.14 also kicks me into macsbug on startup.

Thanks!

PS I notice in "get info" that it says 20.5 where I expected to see 20.6.


-------------------------------------------------------
Michael W. J. West 
Building 334 Room 128
DuPont Experimental Station E334
Wilmington, DE 19880-0334 

phone (302) 695-9378 MWJ-WEST
fax   (302) 695-3813
email Mic...@us...

[Mac-emacs-users] icomplete problem

[Jonathan A. <jda...@bu...>]

The 'icomplete' mode doesn't work. If I have the following in my .emacs:

(icomplete-mode)

M-x commands don't work any more. It echoes the first character and 2nd characters
fine in the modeline, but then any further characters just overwrite the 2nd
one.

+====================================================+
| Jonathan Arnold (mailto:jda...@bu...)     |
| Havas Interactive             HyperStudio Engineer |
| http://www.buddydog.org http://www.hyperstudio.com |
+====================================================+

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man. -- Mark Twain

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] Turn off beep

[Jonathan A. <jda...@bu...>]

> If you want to turn off the beep *only* for Emacs, execute these two
> lines in your .emacs file.

Thanks! I just installed the Mac Emacs and was reall happy with how well my
.emacs from NT Emacs worked. But I don't have anything like this in there
for NT, and I tried doing an apropos on 'bell' but didn't get any answers from
Emacs. The only variables that I showed were visible-bell and show-paren-bell.


+====================================================+
| Jonathan Arnold (mailto:jda...@bu...)     |
| Havas Interactive             HyperStudio Engineer |
| http://www.buddydog.org http://www.hyperstudio.com |
+====================================================+

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man. -- Mark Twain

Re: [Mac-emacs-users] Turn off beep

[Andrew C. <ch...@cs...>]

> Is there anyway to turn off the beep in Mac Emacs?

Hi,

Mac Emacs beeps through the standard system call Beep, so turning off
alert sounds in the control panel should affect it.

If you want to turn off the beep *only* for Emacs, execute these two
lines in your .emacs file.

  (defun do-nothing () nil)

  (setq ring-bell-function 'do-nothing)

This should work in any version of Emacs, not just the Mac version.
This and other fun facts can be found in the Emacs Lisp manual.

Andrew.