From: Fernando C. <fc...@gm...> - 2011-08-30 03:05:08
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I have used XFCE based distros before (more appropiately, XFCE spins of Fedora) for a long time. Now I decided to check out LXDE to explore using it on legacy systems. That´s why yesterday I downloaded the LXDE version of Fedora 15. While I was fiddling (actually, trying to tweak the start menu by removing the "release notes" folder) I selected the wrong option and ended up deleting the start button. 1. How to recreate it?. Then I decided to add the Keyboard Layout panel at the right side of the bottom bar. I did, only to find later that it only showed the US flag, and attempting to click on it (or right-click and selecting settings) does NOT offer the option to add a new keyboard layout (really idiotic behaviour, let you switch between keyboard layouts but not offering the option to add a new one? there is not even a hint of how to do it) 2. So frustrated, by that, I right-clicked and selected "remove panel". To my surprise, I didn´t remove just the keyboard layout switcher but the whole freaking panel at the bottom of the screen, the whole bar. 3. Now I´m left with a LXDE desktop without a start button, and the whole panel removed (I guess the whole bar at the bottom of the screen is a panel, in LXDE parlance, contrary to what I´d have thought, ie panels being elements of a bar). 4. Shouldn´t LXDE include a "lxde-rebuild.sh" script that restores LXDE config as it originally was, to help recover the desktop and the default panels in situations like this?. 5. REQUEST FOR ENHANCEMENT: ideally, when you right-click over a panel, the affected panel should be highlighted, circled in red, or something, to give the user an idea of what element (visually) is going to be affected by any following operation selected (remove, lock, etc). Think of it as 1996´s OS/2 Warp 4 "WarpGuide" feature that highlighted certain visual elements of the UI http://toastytech.com/guis/os24_warpguide.gif Of course, I might be asking about things that are already solved or dcumented somewhere, but I´m new wrt LXDE tweaking and I´m lost. I´ve searched for "LXDE lost panel" and "restore start button" "lxde" but came up with nothing of relevance. 6. I was also unable to find how to make changes to the folder view mode "globally". I wanted to set all folders view to "compact" (I don´t remember if compact is the name of the option, I just remember it provided tinier icons) 7. Also, why right-clicking on any empty space in the desktop to bring the pop-up menu only includes two options "Create an empty file" and "create a new folder" but not "create a program launcher"? How is one supposed to create a new program launcher? In short: LXDE so far fails the usability test Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? (joke, joke). Thanks in advance for your understanding FC |
From: Chris W. <chr...@ap...> - 2011-08-30 06:13:39
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A shortcoming in a software package may be a bug, but it's not "idiotic" - good & smart people work hard on this code, and that's not the best way to make them feel appreciated. (Probably you didn't mean it to sound insulting, but...) Try removing the config folder (actually, rename it, so you have it as backup). Then restart, & it should be recreated with the default settings. You should find it at ~/.config/lxpanel (either rename that whole folder or you can hunt for a file or subfolder if you want). Chris On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:05, Fernando Cassia <fc...@gm...> wrote: > I have used XFCE based distros before (more appropiately, XFCE spins > of Fedora) for a long time. Now I decided to check out LXDE to explore > using it on legacy systems. > > That´s why yesterday I downloaded the LXDE version of Fedora 15. > > While I was fiddling (actually, trying to tweak the start menu by > removing the "release notes" folder) I selected the wrong option and > ended up deleting the start button. > > 1. How to recreate it?. > > Then I decided to add the Keyboard Layout panel at the right side of > the bottom bar. I did, only to find later that it only showed the US > flag, and attempting to click on it (or right-click and selecting > settings) does NOT offer the option to add a new keyboard layout > (really idiotic behaviour, let you switch between keyboard layouts but > not offering the option to add a new one? there is not even a hint of > how to do it) > > 2. So frustrated, by that, I right-clicked and selected "remove > panel". To my surprise, I didn´t remove just the keyboard layout > switcher but the whole freaking panel at the bottom of the screen, the > whole bar. > > 3. Now I´m left with a LXDE desktop without a start button, and the > whole panel removed (I guess the whole bar at the bottom of the screen > is a panel, in LXDE parlance, contrary to what I´d have thought, ie > panels being elements of a bar). > > 4. Shouldn´t LXDE include a "lxde-rebuild.sh" script that restores > LXDE config as it originally was, to help recover the desktop and the > default panels in situations like this?. > > 5. REQUEST FOR ENHANCEMENT: ideally, when you right-click over a > panel, the affected panel should be highlighted, circled in red, or > something, to give the user an idea of what element (visually) is > going to be affected by any following operation selected (remove, > lock, etc). Think of it as 1996´s OS/2 Warp 4 "WarpGuide" feature that > highlighted certain visual elements of the UI > http://toastytech.com/guis/os24_warpguide.gif > > Of course, I might be asking about things that are already solved or > dcumented somewhere, but I´m new wrt LXDE tweaking and I´m lost. I´ve > searched for "LXDE lost panel" and "restore start button" "lxde" but > came up with nothing of relevance. > > 6. I was also unable to find how to make changes to the folder view > mode "globally". I wanted to set all folders view to "compact" (I > don´t remember if compact is the name of the option, I just remember > it provided tinier icons) > > 7. Also, why right-clicking on any empty space in the desktop to bring > the pop-up menu only includes two options "Create an empty file" and > "create a new folder" but not "create a program launcher"? How is one > supposed to create a new program launcher? > > In short: LXDE so far fails the usability test > > Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? (joke, joke). > > Thanks in advance for your understanding > FC > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Special Offer -- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE! > Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better > price-free! And you'll get a free "Love Thy Logs" t-shirt when you > download Logger. Secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsisghtdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Lxde-list mailing list > Lxd...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lxde-list > -- Chris Watkins Appropedia.org - Sharing knowledge to build rich, sustainable lives. |
From: Fernando C. <fc...@gm...> - 2011-08-30 08:25:42
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On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 03:13, Chris Watkins <chr...@ap...> wrote: > A shortcoming in a software package may be a bug, but it's not "idiotic" - > good & smart people work hard on this code, and that's not the best way to > make them feel appreciated. (Probably you didn't mean it to sound insulting, > but...) > > Try removing the config folder (actually, rename it, so you have it as > backup). Then restart, & it should be recreated with the default settings. > You should find it at ~/.config/lxpanel (either rename that whole folder or > you can hunt for a file or subfolder if you want). > > Chris I agree Chris. And I apologize. I just get passionate when it comes to what I feel as good vs bad design. A highly subjective matter, of course. Lately I've become increasingly annoyed by some software developers' desire to re-invent the wheel throwing many years of evolution down the drain. And I'm not thinking LXDE I'm thinking Firefox throwing away the "status bar" for instance, all in the name of screen real state. I call this the "dumbing down" of user interfaces... Another example, in my view, is the ditching of CUA menus by many apps, starting with Google's Chrome. FC PS: Thanks for the help with rebuilding the menus... |
From: Christoph W. <chr...@go...> - 2011-08-30 10:18:36
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Am Dienstag, den 30.08.2011, 00:05 -0300 schrieb Fernando Cassia: > While I was fiddling (actually, trying to tweak the start menu by > removing the "release notes" folder) I selected the wrong option and > ended up deleting the start button. > > 1. How to recreate it?. Hi Fernando, right click on the panel -> 'Add / Remove Panel Items' -> 'Add' -> select 'Menu', click 'Add' -> Move it where you want it, most likely all the way up. As you can see this is nearly the same as with xfce4-panel. > Then I decided to add the Keyboard Layout panel at the right side of > the bottom bar. I did, only to find later that it only showed the US > flag, and attempting to click on it (or right-click and selecting > settings) does NOT offer the option to add a new keyboard layout > (really idiotic behaviour, let you switch between keyboard layouts but > not offering the option to add a new one? there is not even a hint of > how to do it) The xkb plugin only gets the keyboard layouts form the X server, so you need to configure them there. There is documentation in the LXDE wiki and I have just added a Fedora-specific note to the Fedora wiki at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LXDE#Configure_alternative_keyboard_layouts >From a user's perspective this may be bad usability but as a package maintainer (I maintain both Xfce and LXDE in Fedora) I can say that this causes me way less trouble then the xfce4-xkb-plugin. In Xfce it is very similar: You first need to configure the keyboard layouts in xfce4-keyboard-settings and then you have to add them *again* in xfce4-xkb-plugin before you can switch. > 2. So frustrated, by that, I right-clicked and selected "remove > panel". To my surprise, I didn´t remove just the keyboard layout > switcher but the whole freaking panel at the bottom of the screen, the > whole bar. 'Remove panel' is something different as 'Remove "Keyboard Layout switcher" from Panel'. I think the description is pretty good, there is not much to improve but we are open to suggestions. > 3. Now I´m left with a LXDE desktop without a start button, and the > whole panel removed (I guess the whole bar at the bottom of the screen > is a panel, in LXDE parlance, contrary to what I´d have thought, ie > panels being elements of a bar). That is correct and just the same terminology as in GNOME or Xfce. In GNOME 2 the elements were called 'applets', in GNOME 3 they are 'extensions' and in Xfce and LXDE they are called 'plugins'. > 4. Shouldn´t LXDE include a "lxde-rebuild.sh" script that restores > LXDE config as it originally was, to help recover the desktop and the > default panels in situations like this?. I don't think so as no other desktop has something like this. Just remove the config from ~/.config/lxpanel/, ~/.config/pcmanfm and ~/.config/openbox/lxde-rc.xml. The next time you log in the startlxde script will restore the defaults. > 5. REQUEST FOR ENHANCEMENT: ideally, when you right-click over a > panel, the affected panel should be highlighted, circled in red, or > something, to give the user an idea of what element (visually) is > going to be affected by any following operation selected (remove, > lock, etc). In other words: You want *exactly* the same behavior as you are used to from xfce4-panel in lxpanel, right? That's not how it works I'm afraid, LXDE is not an Xfce clone, although they both share some code. As mentioned already I think that the descriptions are already verbose enough. You probably only failed to see the difference because you are used to Xfce so much. > 6. I was also unable to find how to make changes to the folder view > mode "globally". I wanted to set all folders view to "compact" (I > don´t remember if compact is the name of the option, I just remember > it provided tinier icons) In PCManFM select 'Edit' → 'Preferences' → 'Default view: Compact view'. Pretty much like Thunar with the difference that it does not store the last used view. > 7. Also, why right-clicking on any empty space in the desktop to bring > the pop-up menu only includes two options "Create an empty file" and > "create a new folder" but not "create a program launcher"? How is one > supposed to create a new program launcher? This is indeed a fair point. PCManFM should call lxshortcut if installed, shouldn't be too hard to implement. Can you file a feature request on the PCManFM feature request tracker? > In short: LXDE so far fails the usability test > > Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? (joke, joke). Please forgive me if I say: You have failed the test because you had the wrong expectations that made you so blind that you not even found out obvious things. I admit that some things are hard to find, but others were really easy. I think you should just spend a little more time with LXDE, get used to it and if you still feel uncomfortable, switch back to Xfce. Both are excellent desktops but please don't expect one to be a clone of the other. > Thanks in advance for your understanding Thanks for your feedback. If there is anything you like me to change in the default configuration of Fedora's LXDE or Xfce spin, please let me know. Fedora also has two dedicated mailing lists at https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/lxde and https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce Regards, Christoph |