logicmail-devel

[Logicmail-devel] Development Version

[George S. <ge...@mh...>]

I've been using the LogicMail 1.9.0(49) build for a while with a Blackberry
Storm and Courier IMAP on the server, and I wanted to give some feedback.

1) It's vastly more reliable than 1.0.x and 1.1.x.
2) I'd really love to see the subscribed folder option that's in 1.1.x on
the devel build.
3) There should be a Delete option available from the menu when you're
reading a message.
4) URLs embedded into messages are not clickable. I have preferred message
format set to HTML.
5) The move function doesn't seem to remove a message from the source
folder. I selected Move from the Inbox to a sub-folder, and there are copies
of the message in both places now. This is not just on the hand-held, but on
the server itself.
6) Delete doesn't work quite right. If I delete a message, it deletes on the
server but the message is still shown in the Inbox. I've set the global
configuration option to hide deleted messages. If I delete, and I have hide
deleted messages set, then the message should no longer be displayed.
7) The user interface could stand a few improvements. One suggestion that
jumps out is handling nested folders. In order to open the Inbox, which has
sub-folders, I have to select the menu folder, click the Menu button, and
then click on "Select". It would be really nice if maybe the default action
was to expand the folder, while pressing down the folder for an extended
period would open it. Sort of like the way the keyboard works. You press the
"s" button, and you get "s". Hold it down longer, and you get "S".

Another improvement would be to have icons for deleting, replying, etc.
visible in the bottom of the screen when you're viewing a message.

It would be nice if you could make some of the buttons bigger on the
dialogs. Examples would be the delete confirmation. If you could make the
buttons half again taller, and twice as wide, that would make them 3 times
larger. That would be a LOT easier to hit.

8) The "Move" function doesn't work right. I can't move things to a message
folder that has sub-folders. For example, I have "Calendar" folder that
contains messages, and "Errors" which is a sub-folder of Calendar. I can't
move the message to the Calendar folder.
9) Attachments aren't handled. With the Blackberry mail client, I can read
PDFs that are attached. Perhaps this is a server-side function and the PDF
isn't actually rendered on the handheld.

If I pull the current code down from Subversion and compile it, is the
Subscribed Folder handling in the repository? If not, is the patch available
someplace so that I could integrate it?

George Sexton
MH Software, Inc. - Home of Connect Daily Web Calendar
http://www.mhsoftware.com/
Voice: 303 438 9585
  

Re: [Logicmail-devel] Development Version

[Derek K. <dko...@lo...>]

Now that I've finally had time to look through and follow up on this, my
comments are below:
(FYI, what I refer to as "trunk" can also be known devel version, 1.9.0(X),
or milestone 2.0)

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:00:29 -0600, "George Sexton"
<ge...@mh...>
wrote:
> I've been using the LogicMail 1.9.0(49) build for a while with a
Blackberry
> Storm and Courier IMAP on the server, and I wanted to give some feedback.
FYI, my personal configuration is a BlackBerry Bold on Cyrus IMAP, in case
anyone else here is curious.

> 1) It's vastly more reliable than 1.0.x and 1.1.x.
Interesting, since the low-level bits aren't that different.  Though I've
made a few minor data structure tweaks in the low-level network code of
1.1.x and trunk recently, the only real difference here is the way the
low-level code interacts with the rest of the app, and the fact that all
IMAP message referencing is UID-based in trunk, while its pure index-based
in 1.x.

> 2) I'd really love to see the subscribed folder option that's in 1.1.x on
> the devel build.
Yes, I definitely need to forward-port this one.

> 3) There should be a Delete option available from the menu when you're
> reading a message.
Will do

> 4) URLs embedded into messages are not clickable. I have preferred
message
> format set to HTML.
If you're talking about actual HTML message content, then I'll have to test
this one on the Storm simulator.  Also, I'll mention that the whole menu
handling of the HTML message field is a bit of a hack, since the API for
dealing with that isn't very clean.  However, it works on the 8800
simulator I normally use for development.  If you're talking about normal
plain text message content, then its a feature I still need to implement.

> 5) The move function doesn't seem to remove a message from the source
> folder. I selected Move from the Inbox to a sub-folder, and there are
> copies
> of the message in both places now. This is not just on the hand-held, but
> on
> the server itself.
This request prompted me to add the "Code Tags" Trac plugin to the project
website, so everyone can easily see notes I leave for myself while working
on the code.  Why?  Smack in the middle of the method that handles Move,
you'll find this comment:
//TODO: Move To Folder should delete after append

That being said, I still need to implement the IMAP COPY command, which is
the correct/safe way to handle copy and move.  Currently, the implemented
method just uses data already downloaded into LogicMail.  This works fine
for cross-account copies, but isn't really guaranteed to be an exact copy
of the original message, so I never felt comfortable using it for Move. 
Okay, so if you're not confused enough by now...  I'll make Move work
correctly as soon as I fix the Copy implementation to use IMAP COPY.

> 6) Delete doesn't work quite right. If I delete a message, it deletes on
> the
> server but the message is still shown in the Inbox. I've set the global
> configuration option to hide deleted messages. If I delete, and I have
hide
> deleted messages set, then the message should no longer be displayed.
I'll need to investigate and fix this.  Probably just a use case I haven't
tried yet.

> 7) The user interface could stand a few improvements. One suggestion that
> jumps out is handling nested folders. In order to open the Inbox, which
has
> sub-folders, I have to select the menu folder, click the Menu button, and
> then click on "Select". It would be really nice if maybe the default
action
> was to expand the folder, while pressing down the folder for an extended
> period would open it. Sort of like the way the keyboard works. You press
> the
> "s" button, and you get "s". Hold it down longer, and you get "S".
Not a bad idea, but I can also think of plenty of cases where this could
get exceptionally annoying.  (especially when INBOX has sub-folders)  So
we'll need to think about and discuss this one further.  It may also make
sense to design a somewhat Storm-specific folder tree, which actually makes
the "[+]" mark next to the folder into something independently click-able.

On keyboard devices, I'll probably want to stick with SPACE to expand,
ENTER/click to open.

> Another improvement would be to have icons for deleting, replying, etc.
> visible in the bottom of the screen when you're viewing a message.
Providing a rough visual mock-up of how this might look would be helpful. 
This is also probably something only Storm users would actually want,
unless you can think of a way to do it that would also be usable for
traditional BB users.  Heck, there may be a lot of Storm-specific usability
ideas out there that should probably be implemented.

> It would be nice if you could make some of the buttons bigger on the
> dialogs. Examples would be the delete confirmation. If you could make the
> buttons half again taller, and twice as wide, that would make them 3
times
> larger. That would be a LOT easier to hit.
This dialog is pretty much a standard BlackBerry UI popup screen, so its
really RIM's fault that it is hard to use on the Storm.  Of course creating
a customized Storm-specific version could help as a workaround.

> 8) The "Move" function doesn't work right. I can't move things to a
message
> folder that has sub-folders. For example, I have "Calendar" folder that
> contains messages, and "Errors" which is a sub-folder of Calendar. I
can't
> move the message to the Calendar folder.
Can you clarify?  Is the problem that you can't select the destination
folder, or that you can select it but the move/copy operation fails?

> 9) Attachments aren't handled. With the Blackberry mail client, I can
read
> PDFs that are attached. Perhaps this is a server-side function and the
PDF
> isn't actually rendered on the handheld.
I'm just starting to implement attachment handling.  The latest build
actually gives you the ability to save them, for example.  However, I
haven't yet implemented selective attachment downloading, or the ability to
open attachments.  Of course, you'll only be able to actually open
attachments for which the BlackBerry has a registered content handler, or
the native ability to display.

> If I pull the current code down from Subversion and compile it, is the
> Subscribed Folder handling in the repository? If not, is the patch
> available
> someplace so that I could integrate it?
The subscribed-folder thing isn't implemented in trunk yet, so the answer
is no.

P.S. While replying to this message, I've put together a little to-do list
for myself.

-- 
----------------------------
Derek Konigsberg
dko...@lo...
----------------------------

Re: [Logicmail-devel] Development Version

[Derek K. <dko...@lo...>]

On Monday 29 June 2009 4:33:52 pm you wrote:
> > > 7) The user interface could stand a few improvements. One suggestion
> >
> The problem I have is that I have sub-folders, and I'm reduced to using the
> menu button instead of clicking on the folder to open it.

I did some investigation, and this is very much a Storm-specific issue.  To be 
more specific, I originally wrote LogicMail against the 4.1 API, which only 
supported thumbwheel devices.  When I started on 2.0, I implemented click-ball 
support in a way that was still backwards-compatible with the 4.1 API, using a 
bit of a kludge in how I override onMenu() in the BaseScreen class.

This workaround no longer functions correctly on the Storm (4.6).  My solution 
will be to fix how I handle navigation clicks by correctly overriding 
navigationClick() instead, which works fine on the Storm, and exists in 4.2 
onward.  (and LM 2.0 won't support anything older than 4.2.1 anyways, so this 
is now a non-issue)

I'll still need to do more Storm-simulator testing, because I might also be 
hooking to navigationUnclick() in some places now, and that doesn't trigger as 
reliably on the Storm as it does on click-ball devices.

> > > Another improvement would be to have icons for deleting, replying,
> The Storm mail program has a toolbar at the bottom of the screen when
> you're reading a message. There are about 4, reply, delete, move, and close
> (I think).

This would definitely have to be a Storm-specific UI mode.  I currently don't 
have any multi-OS-target support built into my source tree, and am still 
debating between the many different ways to accomplish it.  However, issues 
like this make it all the more important to actually have a few variants of 
the UI.  (I also know that 4.6, which my Bold runs, has some home screen hooks 
I'd like to use that are finally in the public API, for example.)

> > > It would be nice if you could make some of the buttons bigger on the
> > > dialogs. Examples would be the delete confirmation. If you could make
> I would have to say that should not be a real high priority then.
Its amazing just how many UI quirks appear on the Storm that are a complete 
non-issue on the rest of the traditional BB devices.  Its almost like you have 
to design a completely custom Storm-specific UI just to have a clean and usable 
app.  I wonder what RIM's future Storm plans are, and how future devices will 
work.  (I really wish they had a Wi-Fi capable Storm out there so I could play 
with something other than the simulator, since I really don't want to move my 
SIM out of my Bold just for tinkering)

> > > 8) The "Move" function doesn't work right. I can't move things to a
> I can't select the folder. Attempting to select the folder
> expands/unexpands it.
See my comment near the top of the message.  I think any/all TreeField widgets 
in the app are currently affected by the exact same issue, but hopefully it 
shouldn't be too hard to fix in a BB OS 4.2 compatible way.

> > > 9) Attachments aren't handled. With the Blackberry mail client, I can
> That's fine. 99% of my attachments are PDFs and Word documents.
Which reminds me that I need to implement some stub support for all the major 
MIME types so the app will correctly let you download/save such attachments.  
(and then, on-demand attachment downloading is coming up really soon on my to-
do list)

> > > If I pull the current code down from Subversion and compile it, is
> Maybe I'll try downloading the source and taking a look at it. I'm a pretty
> decent Java programmer.
If you merge in the subscribed-folder bits as implemented in the 1.1 branch, 
it'll take a little hand-tweaking to make everything line up in the diff tools.  
(personally, I've become partial to BeyondCompare, even if it costs money)  
The real tricks will just be working through the use cases of where to put the 
option, and how to react to it being changed.  (which goes back to many 
possible configuration-change use cases, and what should/shouldn't trigger a 
refresh of the known/loaded folder tree)

Going forward, if you'd like to become a contributor, I'd certainly welcome 
that.  One thing you're definitely reminding me to do is get serious about 
multi-OS support, so the Storm UI can be better.  And if I head in that 
direction, I really need to get back on track with my attempt at refactoring 
the UI to a model-view-presenter approach, which I never really did to more 
than the MailHomeScreen.

-- 
---------------------------
Derek Konigsberg
dko...@lo...
---------------------------

Re: [Logicmail-devel] Development Version

[Louis T. <lou...@gm...>]

Hi Derek,

It's nice now for the VI file. I've done fixing it almost. It's better now a
lot.

Could u do me a favour? It's about the subject, now i really need the
subject should be treated as the body before the Message will be sent. I
mean when putting Vietnamese in the subject, NOW, it becomes question marks
when it arrives. That's why i really need to know how to fix it by applying
the process which u r using to process the body part. Since the body is
correctly handled.

Thank you very much.

Louis Tang.

Re: [Logicmail-devel] Development Version

[Louis T. <lou...@gm...>]

Dear Derek,

I am finishing the Vietnamese Input Mechanism for BlackBerry OS 4.5 and
below( 4.6 or above should be finished soon). So when you need it or when u
need me to plug it in then let me know. Just an Input Method specially for
Vietnamese BB users.

I test it with Gmail POP/IMAP client on BlackBerry and the result is sweet,
I can type Vietnamese correctly and the content is displayed correctly when
it arrives. And ofcos' it's Decomposed Unicode. I guest it doesn't mater of
Composed/Decomposed Unicode...As logn as it's displayed correctly.

Anyway best wish and regards.

Louis Tang.

Re: [Logicmail-devel] Development Version

[Derek K. <dko...@lo...>]

How exactly does this input method integrate, and how does it differ from the 
input methods normally selectable on the BlackBerry?  And is there a good way 
to integrate it that won't affect anyone who doesn't want to use it?

I'm definitely interested in what you have, once its ready.  For both the 1.1 
branch and trunk, depending on what you've worked on.

I'd also like updated Vietnamese translations, with priority give to the 1.1 
branch.

Thanks.

On Tuesday 30 June 2009 1:25:56 am Louis Tang wrote:
> Dear Derek,
>
> I am finishing the Vietnamese Input Mechanism for BlackBerry OS 4.5 and
> below( 4.6 or above should be finished soon). So when you need it or when u
> need me to plug it in then let me know. Just an Input Method specially for
> Vietnamese BB users.
>
> I test it with Gmail POP/IMAP client on BlackBerry and the result is sweet,
> I can type Vietnamese correctly and the content is displayed correctly when
> it arrives. And ofcos' it's Decomposed Unicode. I guest it doesn't mater of
> Composed/Decomposed Unicode...As logn as it's displayed correctly.
>
> Anyway best wish and regards.
>
> Louis Tang.

-- 
---------------------------
Derek Konigsberg
dko...@lo...
---------------------------

Re: [Logicmail-devel] Development Version

[Louis T. <lou...@gm...>]

Hi Derek,

For the Vietnamese translation I've got feedback that they would like to see
English rather than Vietnamese since something like the English language
used in term of email is very similar to them rather than Vietnamese. They
really understand what is going on within the LogicMail. That's why I stop
for a while and listen to people. I think just leave the Vietnamese
translation for a while, just keep English and other languages. If many
people like to have it then they will suggest me which part should be
translated. For example, the word "Reply" is so familiar to people when
using email, some guys ask me that how can they reply?!?!!? Since I
translated the word "Reply" into Vietnamese correctly, but they are always
looking for the word "Reply"...Just the habit.

For the Input Method, it's all inside the keyChar method. The code checks
the Char key parameter, checks where the cusor is, and if it's in the
TextField related components. Then the code will detect the current
character right before the cursor. Then depends on the character right
before the cursor and the character(key) the user have just entered, the
code decides whether it's an attempting to create Vietnamese characters or
not. for example, if we type letter ' o ', and type ' o ' again right after,
it should create ' ô ' which is the Vietnamese character. The code will
delete the current character, ignore the one has been entered and return new
special Vietnamese character in stead. It's might not easy to understand for
u since my English gets worse and worse..LOL =))

So, if we would like to plug the Input Method into somewhere which has the
TextField components, then just put the code into the keyChar method.
Actually the code the TextField components so it can delete the last letter,
insert new letter...It's so far i have made. I also need to improve the code
too. Although the speed of handling character is good. It's as fast as
normal typing in English. However i will improve it in order to make it
better and better.

I guess that we need an option like u did for the Unicode Converter.
Something like Vietnamese Input Method, if it's checked, then the keyChar
method will touch my code, otherwise it will ignore the detecting code. Or
we can have Vietnamese version like Opera does or the VNLogicMail. I think
this will be the last part and I can plug it in easily. You don't need to
handle it, when your global version is ready then we think about Vietnamese
version. It's my opinion, like the Opera does for Opera Mini. then the
package is simple and neat.

That's what i am thinking. You can decide and let me know when possible.

Regards.

Louis Tang.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Derek Konigsberg <dko...@lo...
> wrote:

> How exactly does this input method integrate, and how does it differ from
> the
> input methods normally selectable on the BlackBerry?  And is there a good
> way
> to integrate it that won't affect anyone who doesn't want to use it?
>
> I'm definitely interested in what you have, once its ready.  For both the
> 1.1
> branch and trunk, depending on what you've worked on.
>
> I'd also like updated Vietnamese translations, with priority give to the
> 1.1
> branch.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Tuesday 30 June 2009 1:25:56 am Louis Tang wrote:
> > Dear Derek,
> >
> > I am finishing the Vietnamese Input Mechanism for BlackBerry OS 4.5 and
> > below( 4.6 or above should be finished soon). So when you need it or when
> u
> > need me to plug it in then let me know. Just an Input Method specially
> for
> > Vietnamese BB users.
> >
> > I test it with Gmail POP/IMAP client on BlackBerry and the result is
> sweet,
> > I can type Vietnamese correctly and the content is displayed correctly
> when
> > it arrives. And ofcos' it's Decomposed Unicode. I guest it doesn't mater
> of
> > Composed/Decomposed Unicode...As logn as it's displayed correctly.
> >
> > Anyway best wish and regards.
> >
> > Louis Tang.
>
> --
> ---------------------------
> Derek Konigsberg
> dko...@lo...
> ---------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Logicmail-devel mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logicmail-devel
>

Re: [Logicmail-devel] Development Version

[Louis T. <lou...@gm...>]

I am touching the 1.1 now and i see it gets some problem with Vietnamese,
specially the resource file bundle, don't know why it's not correctly
displaying the meaningful text LOL...I am fixing them now. By the way, i am
gonna introduce 1.1 to Viet users soon tonight...

But before that, i will send you something which i correct or modify. Just
to let you know it's ready to serve while waiting for the 2.0

Anyway see ya later.

Louis Tang.