Re: [Lmuse-developer] [Bulk] what the hell happened with the OOM folks?

[Tim E. Real <termtech@ro...>]

On September 5, 2011 01:54:18 pm Florian Jung wrote:
> hi
>
> i just had a talk with some OOM developer... what the hell had happened
> between muse and oom devs?
> they not just want their own app, they _hate_ muse. why?
> and tim, what was your role there ;)? quote of $oomdev: "He[Tim]'s an
> egotisitical personality that cried like a baby when we suggested
> changing some of his code." W-T-F?
Huh?
We worked together on a bunch of stuff, but this all started when I questioned 
 why they wanted to completely remove the appearance settings, track icons,
 and background image. 
I felt it was a bit much at the time, a sort of disrespecting of all the 
 previous work done by others. That's not necessarily my code, but I had 
 just finished fixing up a bunch of stuff in there, so you can see why I'd 
 be concerned. But it is NOT all about me and my work.
There was an expectation that their work would soon be merged into the trunk.
So I raised concerns that it was the right thing to do.

I wish they would not blame me for all of this trouble. I raised concerns, 
 but Jeez, I'm just one developer. I don't own or control MusE.

Thing is, it's all about the style sheet.
If MusE was to gain an all-encompassing style sheet, I think they probably 
 felt their only realistic solution to remove the appearance settings so 
 that it didn't get in their way. I had hoped that both a style sheet AND 
 appearance settings could co-exist, and I still feel they could, but well, 
 there you have it...

Now we are faced with what to do about that style sheet.
The other day I added gradients to the strip labels and automation labels. 
Looked great, until I realized that it looked stupid against all the other 
 'plain' controls and background. I thought, 'geez now I'll have to add 
 gradients to all other controls' etc etc. So I abandoned it. Hence the style 
 sheet issue...

But OOM added more than that. Just one example I noticed was the
 sort of 'patch groups'. I'd welcome that.

We are not pushing this whole ancient mess, let it be.
We may have had a legal case, for releasing without any attributions. 
That's not my decision alone. Likely involving Werner. I didn't want 
 to pester him with this embarrassing crap, he has moved on.

If they were to come back and help today, I'd respect that. 
As long as changes were now a group decision.
But I began to realize they were not so interested in helping
 MusE be MusE, but rather turning MusE into the next OOM.
Which is fine, but just added confusion. I mean what is the app
 we work on, is it MusE or OOM? Or is it a merger?

It's kind of sad. OOM shows promise, but the thing is, under the hood
 there's so much in our MusE that needs correction before it can
 really be forked like that. (Unless they fixed it already).
For example, I'm about to commit the most serious changes to
 the midi/audio engine in a long time. Some real bone-head moves are 
 fixed, and complete separation of ALSA and Jack midi is one step closer.
After that - it's controller time! Just wait...

> i mean (no offence, really!), you're indeed hard to convince. but i
> think i have proven more than once that it's possible, haven't i?
Yeah, actually the episode with OOM is one reason I grilled you a
 little harder at first than I might have before. But you're doing fine.
At least now you have help and feedback from others, not just me.

Tim.

>
>
> greetings
> flo
>

Re: [Lmuse-developer] what the hell happened with the OOM folks?

[Geoff Beasley <geoff@la...>]

On 09/06/2011 05:24 AM, Geoff King wrote:
> The OOM guys were the rude and egotistical ones in my view.

amen to that. in fact the muse devs remained dignified and controlled 
throughout that nasty experience. i'm not surprised that they (he) are 
still bagging them at every opportunity - that should tell you who you 
are dealing with there.

best

g.

Re: [Lmuse-developer] what the hell happened with the OOM folks?

[Geoff King <gsking1@gm...>]

Hi Florian,

In a nutshell.  Everyone worked okay together to start.  The OOM guys wanted
to do things their own way and forked.  When they announced their project on
January 27th. they took too much credit and didn't clearly and promptly give
credit to current or historical muse developers.  They didn't even mention
Muse when OOM was first announced.  They got alot of crap for this on the
LAU mailing list.  OOM guys chose to fight and be jerks about it when they
could have easily made the attribution more clear.  The OOM guys were the
rude and egotistical ones in my view.

See the link here and long discussion.
http://www.linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lau/2011/1/27/178025




On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Florian Jung <florian.a.jung@...> wrote:

> i'd indeed like to go there. i want to know what happened and why it
> happened.
> i mean, i don't assume that the OOM folks' ideas were complete trash.
> and i think we could learn a bit from them (as well as they could learn
> a bit from us) (but they don't want to. please don't also refuse to be
> open)
>
> greetings
> flo
>
> Am 05.09.2011 20:12, schrieb Robert Jonsson:
> > 2011/9/5 Florian Jung<florian.a.jung@...>:
> >
> >> hi
> >>
> >> i just had a talk with some OOM developer... what the hell had happened
> >> between muse and oom devs?
> >>
> > Sigh, let's not go there.
> > Suffice to say there are two sides to every story. We are not compatible
> people.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Robert
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [Lmuse-developer] what the hell happened with the OOM folks?

[Florian Jung <florian.a.jung@we...>]

i'd indeed like to go there. i want to know what happened and why it 
happened.
i mean, i don't assume that the OOM folks' ideas were complete trash. 
and i think we could learn a bit from them (as well as they could learn 
a bit from us) (but they don't want to. please don't also refuse to be open)

greetings
flo

Am 05.09.2011 20:12, schrieb Robert Jonsson:
> 2011/9/5 Florian Jung<florian.a.jung@...>:
>    
>> hi
>>
>> i just had a talk with some OOM developer... what the hell had happened
>> between muse and oom devs?
>>      
> Sigh, let's not go there.
> Suffice to say there are two sides to every story. We are not compatible people.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>    

Re: [Lmuse-developer] what the hell happened with the OOM folks?

[Robert Jonsson <spamatica@gm...>]

2011/9/5 Florian Jung <florian.a.jung@...>:
> hi
>
> i just had a talk with some OOM developer... what the hell had happened
> between muse and oom devs?

Sigh, let's not go there.
Suffice to say there are two sides to every story. We are not compatible people.

Regards,
Robert

Re: [Lmuse-developer] new stuff in experimental

[Robert Jonsson <spamatica@gm...>]

Hey man,

you are too fast ;)
Interesting stuff, will test in a few days I'm hoping!

/Robert


2011/9/5 Florian Jung <Florian.a.jung@...>:
> Hi
>
> i've tried something new in experimental: a new,l more powerful concept for pasting in the arranger:
>
> i removed the "insert" entry (which pastes and moves the other stuff behind), and replaced it by a paste-dialog
>
> ctrl+V works as it always worked. ctrl+B is now used to paste as clones, as i think this is an often-used function
> ctrl+SHIFT+v / ctrl+SHIFT+b don't silently paste, but open a dialog (with the "clone" checkbox set accordingly). in that dialog you can:
>
> - specify the number of copies you want to insert
> - specify the raster the copies are aligned to each other (this is intelligently set to a sane default)
> - specify whether you want to paste as clone or not
> - select whether you want to a) don't move other stuff, b) move all other stuff behind (this is what "insert" did) or c) move only the affected parts
> - select whether you want to insert as usual or into a single part (this is what ctrl+B did, iirc).
>
> when you reconfigure the short cuts, you can restore the old behaviour, except that you cannot call "insert" and "paste into single part" any more directly, but only via dialog. but this will not be a problem as these functions are seldomly used.
>
>
> furthermore, i added "copy range" (and removed the stub entry from the structure menu): with ctrl+shift+C, you can copy all selected (or all, if none are selected) parts which are between the blue markers. if a part is only partially inside the range, it's automatically split in the clipboard ("insert as clone" is not possible then; such parts are simply inserted as non-clones. at some later point, when "left jagged edges" are supported, we might want to create clones, and ´set the "jagged edges" accordingly)
>
>
>
>
>
> i'm planning to change the midi editor's copy'n'paste as well:
> - ctrl+shift+c copies from range
> - when inserting, you can select between "insert into single part" (current default), "insert into source parts", "insert into new parts which are analog to the source parts" or "insert either into source parts, or create new parts, if source parts are too far"
>
>
> what do you think about these changes and the ideas?
>
>
> greetings
> flo
>
>
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>

[Lmuse-developer] what the hell happened with the OOM folks?

[Florian Jung <florian.a.jung@we...>]

hi

i just had a talk with some OOM developer... what the hell had happened 
between muse and oom devs?
they not just want their own app, they _hate_ muse. why?
and tim, what was your role there ;)? quote of $oomdev: "He[Tim]'s an 
egotisitical personality that cried like a baby when we suggested 
changing some of his code." W-T-F?
i mean (no offence, really!), you're indeed hard to convince. but i 
think i have proven more than once that it's possible, haven't i?


greetings
flo

Re: [Lmuse-developer] reminder: open bugs and TODOs someone should fix

[Florian Jung <florian.a.jung@we...>]

all fixed.
again: please fix that sig edit box

Am 29.08.2011 18:50, schrieb Florian Jung:
> the remaining list of stuff to do (thanks robert!)
>
>     * when holding ctrl+shift, shift doesn't work any more in arranger
>       (should select "all parts in track", but only selects "part
>       under mouse cursor")
>     * mastertrack-list-editor: changing key is buggy (see the emails
>       with this as subject)
>
>     * add tool-shortcuts (pencil etc.) to the score editor
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>    

Re: [Lmuse-developer] please add even more shortcuts

[Florian Jung <florian.a.jung@we...>]

done.

Am 25.08.2011 18:14, schrieb Florian Jung:
> Hi
>
> whoever will be adding the Fullscreen-shortcuts, could you please add
> shortcuts for the score editor as well?
>
> most importantly i need "a", "d" etc. to select the tools
>
> is that a problem? please reply
>
> greetings
> flo
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> EMC VNX: the world's simplest storage, starting under $10K
> The only unified storage solution that offers unified management
> Up to 160% more powerful than alternatives and 25% more efficient.
> Guaranteed. http://p.sf.net/sfu/emc-vnx-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
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>
>    

[Lmuse-developer] please fix SigEdit

[Florian Jung <florian.a.jung@gm...>]

Hi

please finally someone fix the AWL::SigEdit spinboxes. it's pretty hard 
to use them in their current state. and even if they were not buggy, i 
find them a bit unintuitive.

i'd propose that the SigEdit consists of two Spinboxes, separated with a 
label with text="/"
the latter spinbox (the "denominator" spinbox) only allows powers of two 
(2, 4, 8, 16, maybe and so on?)

the first spinbox may have its alignment reversed (that is, the buttons 
are left, not right), but that's optional

i think this will greatly simplify developing or maintaining these boxes 
as there's no need to do strange fixup voodoo, and it's also more 
intuitive and user friendly.

greetings
flo

Re: [Lmuse-developer] MusE licensing (was: Hey hey, my my, Rock 'n' MusE can never die. (At least 'til Qt5 comes out).)

[Florian Jung <florian.a.jung@we...>]

Am 05.09.2011 05:15, schrieb Orcan Ogetbil:
> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
>    
>> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:11 AM, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
>>      
>>> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:00 AM, Robert Jonsson wrote:
>>>        
>>>> 2010/12/22 Orcan Ogetbil<oget.fedora@...>:
>>>> <..>
>>>>          
>>>>> My proposal is to add to the .cpp and .h files a similar header that
>>>>> is in the CMakeLists.txt files. Something like
>>>>>
>>>>> /*****************************************************************
>>>>>    MusE
>>>>>    Linux Music Editor
>>>>>    $Id:$
>>>>>
>>>>>    Copyright (C) 2002-2010 by Werner Schweer and others
>>>>>
>>>>> This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
>>>>> modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
>>>>> as published by the Free Software Foundation; version 2 of
>>>>> the License.
>>>>>
>>>>> This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
>>>>> but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
>>>>> MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
>>>>> GNU General Public License for more details.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
>>>>> along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
>>>>> Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301, USA.
>>>>> ***************************************************************************/
>>>>>            
>>>> Sounds/looks good to me.
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> Ideally, each file should  contain lines such as
>>>>> Copyright (C) 2002-2007 Jane Smith
>>>>> Copyright (C) 2006 John Doe
>>>>> etc
>>>>> for each author who made a (nontrivial) contribution. Unfortunately,
>>>>> this information is hard to collect at this point, so we are bound to
>>>>> consider the above sufficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should we write a script to scan through the tree and prepend the
>>>>> above text to all the source files?
>>>>>            
>>>> Question is if we should just prepend the above at the beginning with
>>>> a script or try to remove any previous header?
>>>> If possible it would be nice if we could retain the current Copyright lines.
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> Agreed. Yes that should be doable. Currently most (if not all) files
>>> contain a header with a Copyright line. We can make the script insert
>>> the GPL paragraphs right after this line.
>>>
>>>        
>> Attached is the script that will do the job. It will add the GPL
>> paragraphs if there is already some copyright information. Otherwise
>> (if there is no copyright information) it will generate a new one
>> based on the above draft and add it to the top.
>>
>> The usage is
>> ./addcopy.py app.cpp
>> ./addcopy.py *.cpp *.h
>> find . -name "*.cpp" -exec ./addcopy.py {} \;
>> find . -name "*.h" -exec ./addcopy.py {} \;
>>
>> etc.
>>
>>      
> Hi all,
>
> I think it is time to fix the license information in the source code
> headers. Last December, I wrote a script to do this automatically. Of
> course one has to check the diff carefully afterwards to verify the
> script didn't stumble upon a corner case.
>
> Did anyone have a chance to test the script? If there are no
> objections, I will go ahead and work on this.
>
> Just to make sure (once more :) ), do we want "GPLv2" or "GPLv2 or later"?
>    

i also vote for GPLv2 or later. first, this makes it much easier to 
really switch to GPL3 or some later version, and second, actually, we'd 
need to be GPL3 to be able to use the lilypond's glyphs. (they allowed 
us to use them, but if they hadn't, we'd have to be GPL3)

greetings
flo

> Orcan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
> price-free! And you'll get a free "Love Thy Logs" t-shirt when you
> download Logger. Secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsisghtdev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Lmuse-developer mailing list
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>    

[Lmuse-developer] new stuff in experimental

[Florian Jung <Florian.a.jung@we...>]

Hi

i've tried something new in experimental: a new,l more powerful concept for pasting in the arranger:

i removed the "insert" entry (which pastes and moves the other stuff behind), and replaced it by a paste-dialog

ctrl+V works as it always worked. ctrl+B is now used to paste as clones, as i think this is an often-used function
ctrl+SHIFT+v / ctrl+SHIFT+b don't silently paste, but open a dialog (with the "clone" checkbox set accordingly). in that dialog you can:

- specify the number of copies you want to insert
- specify the raster the copies are aligned to each other (this is intelligently set to a sane default)
- specify whether you want to paste as clone or not
- select whether you want to a) don't move other stuff, b) move all other stuff behind (this is what "insert" did) or c) move only the affected parts
- select whether you want to insert as usual or into a single part (this is what ctrl+B did, iirc).

when you reconfigure the short cuts, you can restore the old behaviour, except that you cannot call "insert" and "paste into single part" any more directly, but only via dialog. but this will not be a problem as these functions are seldomly used.


furthermore, i added "copy range" (and removed the stub entry from the structure menu): with ctrl+shift+C, you can copy all selected (or all, if none are selected) parts which are between the blue markers. if a part is only partially inside the range, it's automatically split in the clipboard ("insert as clone" is not possible then; such parts are simply inserted as non-clones. at some later point, when "left jagged edges" are supported, we might want to create clones, and ´set the "jagged edges" accordingly)





i'm planning to change the midi editor's copy'n'paste as well:
- ctrl+shift+c copies from range
- when inserting, you can select between "insert into single part" (current default), "insert into source parts", "insert into new parts which are analog to the source parts" or "insert either into source parts, or create new parts, if source parts are too far"


what do you think about these changes and the ideas?


greetings
flo


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Re: [Lmuse-developer] MusE licensing (was: Hey hey, my my, Rock 'n' MusE can never die. (At least 'til Qt5 comes out).)

[Robert Jonsson <spamatica@gm...>]

And to the ML...

2011/9/5 Robert Jonsson <spamatica@...>:
> 2011/9/5 Orcan Ogetbil <oget.fedora@...>:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I think it is time to fix the license information in the source code
>> headers. Last December, I wrote a script to do this automatically. Of
>> course one has to check the diff carefully afterwards to verify the
>> script didn't stumble upon a corner case.
>>
>> Did anyone have a chance to test the script? If there are no
>> objections, I will go ahead and work on this.
>
> It would be great if you could do that.
> Does the script also add a license if it is missing? I think I have
> checked in files without correct license meaning to add one later...
>
>> Just to make sure (once more :) ), do we want "GPLv2" or "GPLv2 or later"?
>
> I vote for "GPLv2 or later".
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>

[Lmuse-developer] MusE licensing (was: Hey hey, my my, Rock 'n' MusE can never die. (At least 'til Qt5 comes out).)

[Orcan Ogetbil <oget.fedora@gm...>]

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:11 AM, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:00 AM, Robert Jonsson wrote:
>>> 2010/12/22 Orcan Ogetbil <oget.fedora@...>:
>>> <..>
>>>> My proposal is to add to the .cpp and .h files a similar header that
>>>> is in the CMakeLists.txt files. Something like
>>>>
>>>> /*****************************************************************
>>>>   MusE
>>>>   Linux Music Editor
>>>>   $Id:$
>>>>
>>>>   Copyright (C) 2002-2010 by Werner Schweer and others
>>>>
>>>> This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
>>>> modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
>>>> as published by the Free Software Foundation; version 2 of
>>>> the License.
>>>>
>>>> This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
>>>> but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
>>>> MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
>>>> GNU General Public License for more details.
>>>>
>>>> You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
>>>> along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
>>>> Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301, USA.
>>>> ***************************************************************************/
>>>
>>> Sounds/looks good to me.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ideally, each file should  contain lines such as
>>>> Copyright (C) 2002-2007 Jane Smith
>>>> Copyright (C) 2006 John Doe
>>>> etc
>>>> for each author who made a (nontrivial) contribution. Unfortunately,
>>>> this information is hard to collect at this point, so we are bound to
>>>> consider the above sufficient.
>>>>
>>>> Should we write a script to scan through the tree and prepend the
>>>> above text to all the source files?
>>>
>>> Question is if we should just prepend the above at the beginning with
>>> a script or try to remove any previous header?
>>> If possible it would be nice if we could retain the current Copyright lines.
>>>
>>
>> Agreed. Yes that should be doable. Currently most (if not all) files
>> contain a header with a Copyright line. We can make the script insert
>> the GPL paragraphs right after this line.
>>
>
> Attached is the script that will do the job. It will add the GPL
> paragraphs if there is already some copyright information. Otherwise
> (if there is no copyright information) it will generate a new one
> based on the above draft and add it to the top.
>
> The usage is
> ./addcopy.py app.cpp
> ./addcopy.py *.cpp *.h
> find . -name "*.cpp" -exec ./addcopy.py {} \;
> find . -name "*.h" -exec ./addcopy.py {} \;
>
> etc.
>

Hi all,

I think it is time to fix the license information in the source code
headers. Last December, I wrote a script to do this automatically. Of
course one has to check the diff carefully afterwards to verify the
script didn't stumble upon a corner case.

Did anyone have a chance to test the script? If there are no
objections, I will go ahead and work on this.

Just to make sure (once more :) ), do we want "GPLv2" or "GPLv2 or later"?

Orcan

[Lmuse-developer] Hopefully a simple change.

[Geoff King <gsking1@gm...>]

Hi Guys,
Its been awhile since I tried to do something useful in Muse2.  Latest SVN
seems pretty stable.

I've got a suggestions for you.  In midi connections it  only lets me use
one device name at a time.  However, I would like to select the same device
twice and associate it with two different instruments.  For example, I have
2 devices that are daisy chained together   using the midi thru port.  Then
put each on a different channel.

M-Audio Midi Port  -> Syn1(ch1) -> Syn2. (ch2 connected to Syn1 thru)

Would want to use different patch lists for each.

Thanks Geoff K