Re: Thank You Very Much

[Laurent M. <co...@ge...>]

It's not a war ! Windows, Bill, money... who cares ?
You don't understand that nobody will miss you ?

It's the way OSS work, something is not working, make it work and share.
You can't blame someone because nobody is working on YOUR problem.

so please do see Bill and tell him about your problems.

Chris Grove wrote:
> I'm sorry but I have to agree with Hal. I've always been a fan of open
> source and the whole idea of working together to create a good operating
> system and keeping the money out of Bill Gates pocket. But here we are, I
> too have a problem with LIRC, I've asked for help and all I get is 1 answer
> asking me something which even an idiot would have tried before asking!!!
> Now I know for a fact that I can use a Windoze OS and get my remote to do
> what I want and VLC to play my files, so why am I still using a Linux distro
> and why am I still fighting to get LIRC to work?? Answer, I'm not. I'm going
> back to Windoze. 
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal Vaughan [mailto:ha...@th...] 
> Sent: 22 September 2008 18:05
> To: lir...@li...
> Subject: Thank You Very Much
>
> Recently I set up a home theater system as a reward to myself for building
> up a small business to the point where it runs itself.  The downside was
> having 5 remote controls to it.  I considered an all-in-one, but didn't like
> the prices and thought they were just WAY overpriced.  Then I remembered
> LIRC.
>
> I've worked with open source projects before and have a strong commitment to
> FOSS.  I could not have even started my business without FOSS and the only
> software I use in my business that isn't FOSS is Java (well some would now
> consider Java FOSS, some would not).  Along the way I've contributed to FOSS
> projects along the way and I've done a few of my own.  One is a control
> program for an HD radio that can connect by either the serial port or USB,
> so that is not unlike LIRC in some ways.
>
> Since I got past my startup troubles with the business, when I find FOSS
> programs that I can use and contribute to, I like to help with code when I
> can and at the very least, figure out how much that project saved me and
> contribute at least half of that.  (Sometimes it saves me $500, so I can
> contribute that, sometimes it saves me a few grand, so I may only contribute
> half of that total.)  Bottom line: I LIKE TO SUPPORT FOSS.  I've even made
> sure I have certain FOSS projects in my trust/will so I can help them even
> after I'm pushing up daisies.
>
> I would rather take a few days to write a program to add what I need to a
> FOSS project than buy something off the shelf, be it hardware or software.
>
> When I looked at universal remotes, I figured it'd be at least $300 to get
> one that behaved like I wanted.  Instead of wasting time browsing through
> manuals for remotes, I figured I'd use my entertainment box with LIRC and
> setup my own remote.
>
> I won't be doing that anymore.  I had a neat and simple Perl app that I
> could run through ssh on my Nokia 770.  It would, when done, have a number
> of different tab panes and on each tab pane the user could define the size
> and placement of their buttons, along with the text or icon to use on the
> button and also define what remote functions that button would provide.
> Unlike most universal remotes, it would not require selecting the component
> to send commands.  The user could have the buttons for commands they use
> most often on one tab pane and use them no matter which component they
> controlled.
>
> To do that I needed help from people in  the LIRC project or on this mailing
> list.  I've been trying to work out what I can, but sometimes it takes me a
> while to catch on, due in part to a learning disability.
>
> My first request for help from the project went unanswered for over a week.
> I've been on many FOSS mailing lists and when I've seen that, the original
> sender often says, "So are you guys going to help or is this a private
> club?"  Usually they're ruder than that and everyone says, "If you were nice
> to us, we'd be more likely to help," but the irony is that when they were
> nice, they were ignored.  When they were rude, they got their help.
>
> Why?
>
> I don't know.  I don't care.  My first request went a week without a
> response.  Then I ask what's wrong and I do get a response that includes
> some useful info, but when I asked about recommendations for
> *transceivers* people have used with LIRC that have done well, I get a
> suggestion for a remote -- not at all what I need and from the context of my
> email, I think that was clear.
>
> So I go out and buy a transceiver, one that looks good, the maker is good at
> responding to me when I ask questions.  Unlike on this list, when I ask him
> a question I get an answer.  I order the USB-UIRT, which I think is a good
> product then find out there's a bug in the Linux kernel modules that create
> problems with this product.  Okay, if I had Googled the correct words, I
> could have found it, but it didn't turn up in my research and there was
> nothing on the LIRC site to indicate any problem with this device.
>
> Again I ask for help, specifically if there is a way to specify the device
> and driver in a conf file.  I get an answer which includes, "Most of the
> answer to your questions are found in the irsend manpage."  Actually, that
> is not true, the irsend manpage is quite sparse.  There are some good
> points, but at the end I'm still not sure just how I can specify the device
> and driver in a conf file.
>
> I blunder through, install a new version of Ubuntu on a system I was soon
> going to put away anyway.  I test it out and find that the codes I get when
> trying to define a remote are not the same as the ones in that remote's
> definition on the LIRC project.  I've asked about that and I'm still waiting
> for an answer.
>
> Then last night I ask about delays I see with irsend.  Okay, less than
> 24 hours, but I don't expect any help on that, since it seems S.O.P. on this
> list.
>
> I have at least 5 remotes, including the one kept in my study, that don't
> seem to be in your database or, if they are, not all the buttons are
> included.  I was going to create conf files and upload them.  I was working
> on the GUI for a Perl frontend for Internet tablets like my N770.  And, when
> all was done and I got it working, as always, I was going to contribute to
> LIRC financially.
>
> Okay, I'm just one person.  I know you guys are pretty important.  
> You've got stuff included in the Linux kernel, you're more worried about the
> deep and fascinating technical issues than helping a newbie who wants to
> learn and later contribute.  I'm just one person.
>
> But I'm no longer a person who has anywhere near a positive thought in my
> head about LIRC.  Instead of contributing, I just called Crutchfield,
> ordered two remotes and the blaster that comes with them for about $210
> including shipping.  I won't need to use my Internet tablet now and won't
> need LIRC.
>
> I don't mind wading through things to get a program written.  Swimming
> upstream and fighting to get the info you need is part of programming. 
>
> But I'll be damned if I'm going to fight a bunch of people on a mailing list
> who I know have the answers I need but just don't have the time, effort, or
> courtesy, to answer questions from a newbie.  I've got other things to do in
> my life.  I have a yard I like working in, I have woodworking projects to
> do, I'm an award winning competitive tango dancer who needs to practice, and
> I have scripts to write for a small production company I'm starting.  
>
> I don't have time to fight you, this group, for answers if I'm going to do
> any coding.  I have too many other things to do.  I'll just either keep
> working with projects I have contributed to or find new ones, but I'm not
> going to stick with LIRC because I don't get answers on this list.
>
> I've seen emails like this on mailing lists before.  Usually they're quite
> rude.  People find every way to blame the poster instead of saying, "Hey,
> here's someone that could have added to the project with code and cash.
> What could WE have done differently so they're not leaving in a huff?"  The
> answer is simple: ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!  That's all that was needed!
>
> I'm doing you a favor!  Instead of just saying F--- You!  I'm saying, "This
> is a problem.  I wanted to contribute, but instead, I'm just spending money
> on a simple fix instead.  Here's what drove me away."  I know I'm
> inconsequential in many ways, but I could have contributed code and funds.
> Sure, I know a few hundred isn't much for a project that does the fancy
> stuff you guys do, but it wouldn't have taken much for me to have
> contributed enthusiastically to LIRC instead of deciding that those involved
> don't care enough about users and newbies to make it worth my time to get
> involved.
>
> My decision is made, you can criticize me all you want and call me names,
> but the bottom line is all I wanted were some answers.  I've never had a
> FOSS project prove so hard to join or work with or contribute to or so
> reluctant to help a newbie with answers to his questions that would help him
> get involved.
>
> You can blame me, say I didn't ask the right questions, or say I didn't
> search in the right pages, but a project like LIRC is complex and hard to
> get up to speed with for some people.  I'm sure you'd rather take the easy
> route and put it all on me than take any time to realize that some simple
> actions on your part, as knowledgeable list members, would have made a big
> difference.  When people here have the chance to help someone new, it's
> clear they don't have the time for them.
>
> So it's only appropriate a new person, eager to help, should decide he
> doesn't have the time for LIRC.
>
> Thank you very much for the lack of answers and help.  My remote arrives
> tomorrow and there's no reason for me to ever give a damn about LIRC and
> fighting to get answers here again.  I'm sorry it had to be that way.
>
> Hal
>
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