linuxsh-dev

[linuxsh-dev] Debian GNU/Linux on Dreamcast

[Rene M. <re...@li...>]

Hi everyone, I'm new here so please bare with my newbie questions.

My current pet project is to get my Dreamcast to run Linux and hopefully
become somewhat of an X terminal or perhaps even be able to run some
DIVX ;-) Cds. I have been looking for a good HOWTO on the project or
perhaps even an home page. Unfortunately I have only managed to get bits
and pieces. So I thought it might be a good idea to write my own HOWTO
on the subject. But I could use some help. As I understand it applets
two people on this list have bean able to boot the kernel on a DC. So I
would appreciate it if someone could help me out (so I won't make all of
your mistakes again) Here's my understanding of things, please correct
me if I'm wrong. The Dreamcast can boot Linux from a CDR. but there is
quite some "magic" involved in getting it done. Perhaps its over the
serial cable that Marcus has on his home page

http://mc.pp.se/dc/serifc.html
but so far there are no ISO images to be simply downloaded and burnt.
(If there aren't then I would like to help create some, but again all
help I can get would be much appreciated)

Can someone please tell me what works and what doesn't yet, and how do
you get it to do? How far has the project come.

First some DC / Linux questions:

Q1: Does someone have an ISO image to burn, or do you use the
serialslave to load the kernel from the DC?

Q2: Is there an FB device that works with the PowerVR2 GFX. (As I
understand It the answer i NO)

Q3:  I have heard and seen an someone with an NIC (Network Interface
Card) but so far haven't had any luck in getting hold of one. Are they
available in Japan or US?

Q4: I managed to download the x86 cross compile tools from

ftp://ftp.m17n.org/pub/linux-sh/debian/packages-i386/

but for some reason the tools are installed as sh-linux-gcc and not
sh-linux-gnu-gcc as the kernel expects, why?

Q5: I have downloaded the kernel source from the CVS directory but fore
some reason it refuses to compile for GENERIC mode. Anyone who got a
clue why? Is it broken by default.

Q6: Are there any specific switches that should / shouldn't be used when
compiling the kernel to the DC. I thought of making a special "class"
fro the DC in the compiler script. Is this a good idea?

And then some more general SH-Linux questions:

Q7: What kind of development boards exist for this particular CPU and
where can they be purchased. (Links would be fine, approximately price
also)

Q8: How far has the Debian GNU/Linux Distribution come? As I understand
It its just n it infancy, and where is the help most needed?

Q9: Is there an .plan fore the platform


/Rene

[linuxsh-dev] Re: [linux-sh:01335] Debian GNU/Linux on Dreamcast

[YAEGASHI T. <yae...@ma...>]

Hello Rene,

In the article <39F...@li...>,
Rene Malmgren <re...@li...> wrote:

> Can someone please tell me what works and what doesn't yet, and how do
> you get it to do? How far has the project come.

Linux is already ported to SEGA Dreamcast by me, privately.  It
can boot from CD-R and have supports for serial port, frame
buffer, and pad/keyboard.  Someone might see that Niibe gave a
demonstration at Linux Kongress 2000.

Currently it can run only on the restricted environment with
initrd.  It can handle none of GD-ROM, Audio or Ethernet yet
from lack of sepcs...  Yes, all the information I could get was
from Marcus Comstedt's DC site.

I'm sorry but I cannot release my port publicly, because I'm
working for NAMCO, which has an NDA on Dreamcast with SEGA
(actually I've not learned anything from SEGA under this NDA,
but do they admit this fact?).  So I think I need SEGA's
permission to release the port.


> First some DC / Linux questions:
> 
> Q1: Does someone have an ISO image to burn, or do you use the
> serialslave to load the kernel from the DC?

I'm using GDB stub burned on CD-R to develop the kernel on
Dremacast.


> Q2: Is there an FB device that works with the PowerVR2 GFX. (As I
> understand It the answer i NO)

Yes there is.  Framebuffer console is now working fine with
SuperH Tux(many thanks to Greg:->).  We can login Dreamcast with
keyboard or via serial port.


> Q3:  I have heard and seen an someone with an NIC (Network Interface
> Card) but so far haven't had any luck in getting hold of one. Are they
> available in Japan or US?

I have one.  It can be ordered from SEGA's site(but in Japanese).

	http://www3.csi-msp.com/dcweb/


> Q4: I managed to download the x86 cross compile tools from
> 
> ftp://ftp.m17n.org/pub/linux-sh/debian/packages-i386/
> 
> but for some reason the tools are installed as sh-linux-gcc and not
> sh-linux-gnu-gcc as the kernel expects, why?

Because Debian policy expects to be sh-linux-gcc(I heard gnu is
reserved for Debian GNU/Hurd).  You can feel free to change the
kernel's Makefile.


> Q5: I have downloaded the kernel source from the CVS directory but fore
> some reason it refuses to compile for GENERIC mode. Anyone who got a
> clue why? Is it broken by default.

I cannot give any advice to you unless you tell me how it
fails...


> Q6: Are there any specific switches that should / shouldn't be used when
> compiling the kernel to the DC. I thought of making a special "class"
> fro the DC in the compiler script. Is this a good idea?

Agreed.  I've already added CONFIG_SH_DREAMCAST configuration to
the kernel.


> And then some more general SH-Linux questions:
> 
> Q7: What kind of development boards exist for this particular CPU and
> where can they be purchased. (Links would be fine, approximately price
> also)

I don't know well, hope somebody advise you...


> Q8: How far has the Debian GNU/Linux Distribution come? As I understand
> It its just n it infancy, and where is the help most needed?

It depends on how long time it takes that GNU toolchain and
glibc for SuperH get stable, I think.  Currently Niibe and kaz
are working on it.  I really appreciate that.


> Q9: Is there an .plan fore the platform

When new toolchain and glibc are available, we can start Debian
port again.

Any other comments, developers?

--
YAEGASHI Takeshi <yae...@ma...>

[linuxsh-dev] Re: [linux-sh:01337] Re: Debian GNU/Linux on Dreamcast

[Rene M. <re...@li...>]

Thank you very mych for all the help.


YAEGASHI Takeshi wrote:

> 
> Currently it can run only on the restricted environment with
> initrd.  It can handle none of GD-ROM, Audio or Ethernet yet
> from lack of sepcs...  Yes, all the information I could get was
> from Marcus Comstedt's DC site.

Ok is information on these chips interesting to the development team?

> 
> 
> I'm sorry but I cannot release my port publicly, because I'm
> working for NAMCO, which has an NDA on Dreamcast with SEGA
> (actually I've not learned anything from SEGA under this NDA,
> but do they admit this fact?).  So I think I need SEGA's
> permission to release the port.


I see you got the same kind of support over there as we do in Europe 
;-). But seriosly, usualy NDAs only cover the things that they hand over 
to you, and since they havn't... But yours could be different, I only 
know how its done over here. But i don't want to get you in troubel with 
your boss.

> 
> 
>> Q2: Is there an FB device that works with the PowerVR2 GFX. (As I
>> understand It the answer i NO)
> 
> 
> Yes there is.  Framebuffer console is now working fine with
> SuperH Tux(many thanks to Greg:->).  We can login Dreamcast with
> keyboard or via serial port.

Ok so there is an FB for the DC. In what kernel and where do I find it. 
(Is it publicly availible?) I tried the 2.4.0-test9 and the CVS kernel 
from linux-sh but couldnt find FB support.

> 
> 
> 
>> Q3:  I have heard and seen an someone with an NIC (Network Interface
>> Card) but so far haven't had any luck in getting hold of one. Are they
>> available in Japan or US?
> 
> 
> I have one.  It can be ordered from SEGA's site(but in Japanese).
> 
> 	http://www3.csi-msp.com/dcweb/


Ok thet explains it. How do you get one to Europe? My Japanese is about 
as good as your Swedish ;-). Colud you buy me one (ill wiretransfer you 
the money in advance and you could send it to me via TNT or something 
like that.)

> 
> 
> 
>> Q4: I managed to download the x86 cross compile tools from
>> 
>> ftp://ftp.m17n.org/pub/linux-sh/debian/packages-i386/
>> 
>> but for some reason the tools are installed as sh-linux-gcc and not
>> sh-linux-gnu-gcc as the kernel expects, why?
> 
> 
> Because Debian policy expects to be sh-linux-gcc(I heard gnu is
> reserved for Debian GNU/Hurd).  You can feel free to change the
> kernel's Makefile.

Ok... Right now I took the easy way out (symlinks)

> 
> 
> 
>> Q5: I have downloaded the kernel source from the CVS directory but fore
>> some reason it refuses to compile for GENERIC mode. Anyone who got a
>> clue why? Is it broken by default.
> 
> 
> I cannot give any advice to you unless you tell me how it
> fails...


Right now I think its because I got an "old" kernel without FB support 
but tried to compile it in anyway. I'll wait for a new kernel.

> 
> 
> 
>> Q6: Are there any specific switches that should / shouldn't be used when
>> compiling the kernel to the DC. I thought of making a special "class"
>> fro the DC in the compiler script. Is this a good idea?
> 
> 
> Agreed.  I've already added CONFIG_SH_DREAMCAST configuration to
> the kernel.

Great, it make life a lot easyer for newbies.

>> Q8: How far has the Debian GNU/Linux Distribution come? As I understand
>> It its just n it infancy, and where is the help most needed?
> 
> 
> It depends on how long time it takes that GNU toolchain and
> glibc for SuperH get stable, I think.  Currently Niibe and kaz
> are working on it.  I really appreciate that.
> 
Ah the missing link, glibc. But arn't ther some .deb packeges on m17n ?
They moved to old last week. Is it becouse there is a larger upgrade 
going on?


/Rene

[linuxsh-dev] Re: [linux-sh:01337] Re: Debian GNU/Linux on Dreamcast

[M. R. B. <ma...@uw...>]

Hey guys,

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, YAEGASHI Takeshi wrote:

> Hello Rene,
> 
> In the article <39F...@li...>,
> Rene Malmgren <re...@li...> wrote:
> 
> > Can someone please tell me what works and what doesn't yet, and how do
> > you get it to do? How far has the project come.
> 
> Linux is already ported to SEGA Dreamcast by me, privately.  It
> can boot from CD-R and have supports for serial port, frame
> buffer, and pad/keyboard.  Someone might see that Niibe gave a
> demonstration at Linux Kongress 2000.
> 
> Currently it can run only on the restricted environment with
> initrd.  It can handle none of GD-ROM, Audio or Ethernet yet
> from lack of sepcs...  Yes, all the information I could get was
> from Marcus Comstedt's DC site.
> 

Marcus Comstedt (http://mc.pp.se/dc/), Dan Potter (from this list) and
others on the dcdev list (at egroups) have exposed a lot of the
information necessary to write kernel drivers for various DC subsystems.
Info is available for:
  - Video modes: 320x240 565, 640x480 565, and 640x480 888.  That means a
    decent (albeit slow?) framebuffer can be constructed.
  - CD-ROM subsystem support.
  - Audio: I was thinking maybe a "generic" AICA firmware to emulate OSS
    or else a DC-specific audio spec.
  - Input: The DC's maple bus is spec'd, meaning keyboards, mice,
    controllers, VMUs are all avail.  The keyboard+fb is especially
    enticing.
  - Dan Potter has done some work regarding 2D-acceleration on the NEC
    PVR.  I haven't gotten a chance to really investigate this, but he
    suggested an accelerated framebuffer.

This is more than enough for us "hobbyists" to get started, other things
that could come later would be the expansion port (which gives us modem
and ethernet - eventually), better 3D support, etc.

> I'm sorry but I cannot release my port publicly, because I'm
> working for NAMCO, which has an NDA on Dreamcast with SEGA
> (actually I've not learned anything from SEGA under this NDA,
> but do they admit this fact?).  So I think I need SEGA's
> permission to release the port.

As far as kernel-specific (e.g. CONFIG_SH_DREAMCAST) stuff goes, do you
think you could release that?  I understand that you can't release
anything on the DC hardware, but could you give us some pointers on where
to get started on the actual port (e.g. how to structure devices, etc.).

> 
> 
> > First some DC / Linux questions:
> > 
> > Q1: Does someone have an ISO image to burn, or do you use the
> > serialslave to load the kernel from the DC?
> 
> I'm using GDB stub burned on CD-R to develop the kernel on
> Dremacast.
> 
>

Same here.  Still learning GDB though which is slowing me down a bit ;).
<leech> Do you have a .gdbinit you would recommend using? </leech>.
 
> > Q2: Is there an FB device that works with the PowerVR2 GFX. (As I
> > understand It the answer i NO)
> 
> Yes there is.  Framebuffer console is now working fine with
> SuperH Tux(many thanks to Greg:->).  We can login Dreamcast with
> keyboard or via serial port.
> 
>

I can't wait to get this working :)
 
> 
> Because Debian policy expects to be sh-linux-gcc(I heard gnu is
> reserved for Debian GNU/Hurd).  You can feel free to change the
> kernel's Makefile.
> 
> 
> > Q5: I have downloaded the kernel source from the CVS directory but fore
> > some reason it refuses to compile for GENERIC mode. Anyone who got a
> > clue why? Is it broken by default.
> 
> I cannot give any advice to you unless you tell me how it
> fails...
> 

It may be how the kernel include paths are setup, you have to make sure
that the kernel's includes are pointing to the sh-kernel directory and not
/usr/include or /usr/src/linux/include (if that's where your normal kernel
resides). 

> 
> > Q6: Are there any specific switches that should / shouldn't be used when
> > compiling the kernel to the DC. I thought of making a special "class"
> > fro the DC in the compiler script. Is this a good idea?
> 
> Agreed.  I've already added CONFIG_SH_DREAMCAST configuration to
> the kernel.
> 

Can you be more specific on this, without breaking NDA :)?

> 
> Any other comments, developers?
> 

It's cool that a licensed DC developer has ported Linux, but IMHO it would
benefit the community if hobbyists undertook this and got the kernel
stable on DC.  I'm very interested in pursuing this, anyone else up for
the challenge? :)

Those who are interested in Dreamcast programming at all should check out
the dcdev mailinglist at http://www.egroups.com.  Also good places to
start for info are Marcus's (not me) site: http://mc.pp.se/dc/, and Dan's
site: http://www.allusion.net/dcdev/.

> --
> YAEGASHI Takeshi <yae...@ma...>
> 
> 

M. R. Brown

[linuxsh-dev] Re: [linux-sh:01343] Re: Debian GNU/Linux on Dreamcast

[YAEGASHI T. <yae...@ma...>]

Hello all,

Sorry for late and short reply.  It costs me so long time to
write in English. :->

In the article <Pin...@al...>,
"M. R. Brown" <ma...@uw...> wrote:

> Marcus Comstedt (http://mc.pp.se/dc/), Dan Potter (from this list) and
> others on the dcdev list (at egroups) have exposed a lot of the
> information necessary to write kernel drivers for various DC subsystems.
> Info is available for:
>   - Video modes: 320x240 565, 640x480 565, and 640x480 888.  That means a
>     decent (albeit slow?) framebuffer can be constructed.
>   - CD-ROM subsystem support.
>   - Audio: I was thinking maybe a "generic" AICA firmware to emulate OSS
>     or else a DC-specific audio spec.
>   - Input: The DC's maple bus is spec'd, meaning keyboards, mice,
>     controllers, VMUs are all avail.  The keyboard+fb is especially
>     enticing.
>   - Dan Potter has done some work regarding 2D-acceleration on the NEC
>     PVR.  I haven't gotten a chance to really investigate this, but he
>     suggested an accelerated framebuffer.
>
> This is more than enough for us "hobbyists" to get started, other things
> that could come later would be the expansion port (which gives us modem
> and ethernet - eventually), better 3D support, etc.

Yes, their works are really great.  But I think they're
insufficient for writing kernel drivers.  I need specs of
hardware registers, not BIOS calls.  Specs of interrupt and DMA
handling are particularly important.


> It's cool that a licensed DC developer has ported Linux, but IMHO it would
> benefit the community if hobbyists undertook this and got the kernel
> stable on DC.  I'm very interested in pursuing this, anyone else up for
> the challenge? :)

Oh yes.  I would release my port as soon as possible if I was
not an employee of NAMCO.

Actually, I'm nothing more than one of the hobbyist developers.
My business has nothing to do with Dreamcast, I've never seen
Dreamcast's SDK.

--
YAEGASHI Takeshi <yae...@ma...>

[linuxsh-dev] Re: [linux-sh:01348] Re: Debian GNU/Linux on Dreamcast

[M. R. B. <ma...@uw...>]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, YAEGASHI Takeshi wrote:

> In the article <Pin...@al...>,
> "M. R. Brown" <ma...@uw...> wrote:
> 
> > Marcus Comstedt (http://mc.pp.se/dc/), Dan Potter (from this list) and
> > others on the dcdev list (at egroups) have exposed a lot of the
> > information necessary to write kernel drivers for various DC subsystems.
> > Info is available for:
> >   - Video modes: 320x240 565, 640x480 565, and 640x480 888.  That means a
> >     decent (albeit slow?) framebuffer can be constructed.
> >   - CD-ROM subsystem support.
> >   - Audio: I was thinking maybe a "generic" AICA firmware to emulate OSS
> >     or else a DC-specific audio spec.
> >   - Input: The DC's maple bus is spec'd, meaning keyboards, mice,
> >     controllers, VMUs are all avail.  The keyboard+fb is especially
> >     enticing.
> >   - Dan Potter has done some work regarding 2D-acceleration on the NEC
> >     PVR.  I haven't gotten a chance to really investigate this, but he
> >     suggested an accelerated framebuffer.
> >
> > This is more than enough for us "hobbyists" to get started, other things
> > that could come later would be the expansion port (which gives us modem
> > and ethernet - eventually), better 3D support, etc.
> 
> Yes, their works are really great.  But I think they're
> insufficient for writing kernel drivers.  I need specs of
> hardware registers, not BIOS calls.  Specs of interrupt and DMA
> handling are particularly important.
> 

AFAIK, only the CD/GD-ROM subsystem uses BIOS calls, and that could be
"liberated" with a little clean room reverse engineering :).  The
framebuffer, sound, and maple bus could easily be implemented in the
kernel with current information (I hope).  I'm currently studying the SH4
manuals to get up to speed, etc. 

> 
> > It's cool that a licensed DC developer has ported Linux, but IMHO it would
> > benefit the community if hobbyists undertook this and got the kernel
> > stable on DC.  I'm very interested in pursuing this, anyone else up for
> > the challenge? :)
> 
> Oh yes.  I would release my port as soon as possible if I was
> not an employee of NAMCO.
> 
> Actually, I'm nothing more than one of the hobbyist developers.
> My business has nothing to do with Dreamcast, I've never seen
> Dreamcast's SDK.
>

Me neither, and I hope to never see one :).
 
> --
> YAEGASHI Takeshi <yae...@ma...>
> 
> 

M. R. Brown

[linuxsh-dev] Re: [linux-sh:01352] Re: Debian GNU/Linux on Dreamcast

[Rene M. <re...@li...>]

Werner Cornelius wrote:
> 
> Dan Potter schrieb:
> >
> > I recall waay back on Oct 27 when Werner Cornelius wrote:
> >
> > > I just cracked partially the pinout of the SEGA custom chip 315-6137
> > > inside the modem card.
> > > Together with the data sheet of the mode chip I found out how I could
> > > replace the modem chip by other hardware, if I find the time I will
> > > connect an ethernet board this weekend.
> >
> > Wow, you're fast!
> 
> It took me about one and a half day where the infos on the internet were
> very helpfull.
> But now the whole thing seems to stagnate.
> I didn't found any shop delivering NEOGEO <-> DC Link cables. And the
> shop directly offering programming cables in Hongkong is still not able
> to deliver the cable.

Funny I ordered the NEOGEO <-> DC Link cable from Hong Kong lest week,
and I got it in the mail yesterday (so yes It works). So I'll be
converting things this weekend. Have you tried David's Console Shop at
http://www.dcshk.com/select_dc.htm, there you can order the NEOGEO cable
(art DC-0018), While I was at it I also ordered a VGA cable (art
DC-0019) to be able to connect my DC to my 14" VGA monitor. It works
just fine (now I can read the text from the DC console ;-) ) the total
price was 59$ (22 for the cable and 37 for the NEOGEO) including
shipment to Sweden it took about 7 days to deliver. 

/Rene

[linuxsh-dev] Re: [linux-sh:01352] Re: Debian GNU/Linux on Dreamcast

[Werner C. <cor...@is...>]

Rene Malmgren wrote:
> 
> Werner Cornelius wrote:
> >
> > I didn't found any shop delivering NEOGEO <-> DC Link cables. And the
> > shop directly offering programming cables in Hongkong is still not able
> > to deliver the cable.
> 
> Funny I ordered the NEOGEO <-> DC Link cable from Hong Kong lest week,
> and I got it in the mail yesterday (so yes It works). So I'll be
> converting things this weekend. Have you tried David's Console Shop at
> http://www.dcshk.com/select_dc.htm, there you can order the NEOGEO cable
> (art DC-0018), While I was at it I also ordered a VGA cable (art
> DC-0019) to be able to connect my DC to my 14" VGA monitor. It works
> just fine (now I can read the text from the DC console ;-) ) the total
> price was 59$ (22 for the cable and 37 for the NEOGEO) including
> shipment to Sweden it took about 7 days to deliver.
> 

Some hours before I ordered the needed cables and a memory card (I don't
know if I really need it some time, I am not playing games) from another
Hongkong dealer. There a direct PC link cable is announced and I hope it
will be released in the next 2 weeks.
Other artcles are a bit cheaper than at Davids Console Shop like I just
compared. 
The domain is lik-sang.com, I hope there are no problems getting the
things to europe.
None of those dealers offers single connectors or similar things which
would be very useful.

But thanks for your tip.

Werner
     

> /Rene