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From: <be...@ga...> - 2004-01-26 13:14:45
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Hi, just back from NAMM where I met lots of sample library producers: I've met people from the following companies: - Garritan (orchestral strings) - Post Musical Instruments (pianos like the high quality Bosendorfer 290) - SAM Project (Horns) - Bela Media (Vocal samples) - Vienna Symphonic Library (produces giant orchestral samples taken from the Vienna philarmonica orchester etc) - Sonic Implants - Dan Dean (orchestral samples) - Scarbee (Bass samples) - Chickensys (produces Translator, a tool that converts between many sample formats) I explained the concept of LS, where we currently are, and what's our shor tterm and long term roadmap. To some I showed LS running on the Mediastation (which contains an Athlon Linux box), to others we showed LS running on the Laptop of Paul Davis (he was at NAMM too, really a great person :-) ). The sampler producers are very enthusiastic about LS, because the technology is open, free and scalable and will be able to integrate their own stuff they need to provide superior sample playback experience. Most of them already donated sample CDs (in GIG format) that we can use for development purposes (we will share then among selected and trusted developers that contribute to the codebase and to testing like Mark does). Most of those that have not yet donated CDs said they intend to. The feature they are most excited about is networked LS clusters with a VSTi frontend on Window PC (or Mac using audiounits), because most of them produce large orchestral libraries which are impossible to run on a single machine. (the Vienna guys produce libs of 200GB and more !). So I think the VSTi networking support in LS will be very important for adoption in large scale enviroments. Christian said we want to make it to Hollywood studios and I think if we do it right this goal will not be too far away :-) On the other hand sample library producers have concerns about piracy, so they are interested if sample content can be protected while keeping the sampler open. We should think about those issues over the long term. Anyway I must say I did not expect such a positive response. They are all very friendly people, mostly 1-4 man based companies and you know it's easier to talk to such companies than to big companies. A few of the guys expressed ideas about doing a sampler module based on an embedded PC (like the VIA) running LS and their sample libraries. One guy said LS could be turned in a high quality organ with dozen of registers (which would require 20-30voices (RAM voices) per midi key). I think sample producers are often dependent on softsampler companies and often their creativity is limited by those commercial softsamplers because the commercial softsamplers often do not implement stuff that is needed only for certain libraries because it does not pay off to them, plus they try to keep their engines/sample formats as closed as possible in order to stay ahead of competing companies. Regarding distributing the sampling CDs, we should decide who will get access to them. I propose only people that have shown active contribution to LS. Be it in form of code or in form of testing like Mark does. People that comes to mind: Christian, me, Mark, Vladimir, Rui, Tobias E. others ? PS: some of the companies said that once LS gets a bit usable they will try it out and give us feedback if their sound libraries are played back correctly. thoughts ? cheers, Benno http://www.linuxsampler.org ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.gardena.net |
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From: Vladimir S. <ha...@so...> - 2004-01-26 16:38:44
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Great work, awesome news! Ideally we should get to a point on the roadmap when sample producers will be willing to take a particular LS release and approve it for their samples. Then we won't need a lot of testers/time and they could get maximum features back from LS. What are the minimum features for LS to get to that kind of acceptance? VSTi frontend, clusters, etc is all good stuff too, but I think to get to that point LS probably just need to implement all the requirements of the GIG format just like Christian said. So let's get a detailed TODO list published on that, slice it and go for it! I should be able to contribute at least every other weekend at this point. Regards, Vladimir. -----Original Message----- From: lin...@li... [mailto:lin...@li...] On Behalf Of be...@ga... Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:12 PM To: Linux-Sampler Subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] LinuxSampler & sample library producers NAMM report Hi, just back from NAMM where I met lots of sample library producers: I've met people from the following companies: - Garritan (orchestral strings) - Post Musical Instruments (pianos like the high quality Bosendorfer 290) - SAM Project (Horns) - Bela Media (Vocal samples) - Vienna Symphonic Library (produces giant orchestral samples taken from the Vienna philarmonica orchester etc) - Sonic Implants - Dan Dean (orchestral samples) - Scarbee (Bass samples) - Chickensys (produces Translator, a tool that converts between many sample formats) I explained the concept of LS, where we currently are, and what's our shor tterm and long term roadmap. To some I showed LS running on the Mediastation (which contains an Athlon Linux box), to others we showed LS running on the Laptop of Paul Davis (he was at NAMM too, really a great person :-) ). The sampler producers are very enthusiastic about LS, because the technology is open, free and scalable and will be able to integrate their own stuff they need to provide superior sample playback experience. Most of them already donated sample CDs (in GIG format) that we can use for development purposes (we will share then among selected and trusted developers that contribute to the codebase and to testing like Mark does). Most of those that have not yet donated CDs said they intend to. The feature they are most excited about is networked LS clusters with a VSTi frontend on Window PC (or Mac using audiounits), because most of them produce large orchestral libraries which are impossible to run on a single machine. (the Vienna guys produce libs of 200GB and more !). So I think the VSTi networking support in LS will be very important for adoption in large scale enviroments. Christian said we want to make it to Hollywood studios and I think if we do it right this goal will not be too far away :-) On the other hand sample library producers have concerns about piracy, so they are interested if sample content can be protected while keeping the sampler open. We should think about those issues over the long term. Anyway I must say I did not expect such a positive response. They are all very friendly people, mostly 1-4 man based companies and you know it's easier to talk to such companies than to big companies. A few of the guys expressed ideas about doing a sampler module based on an embedded PC (like the VIA) running LS and their sample libraries. One guy said LS could be turned in a high quality organ with dozen of registers (which would require 20-30voices (RAM voices) per midi key). I think sample producers are often dependent on softsampler companies and often their creativity is limited by those commercial softsamplers because the commercial softsamplers often do not implement stuff that is needed only for certain libraries because it does not pay off to them, plus they try to keep their engines/sample formats as closed as possible in order to stay ahead of competing companies. Regarding distributing the sampling CDs, we should decide who will get access to them. I propose only people that have shown active contribution to LS. Be it in form of code or in form of testing like Mark does. People that comes to mind: Christian, me, Mark, Vladimir, Rui, Tobias E. others ? PS: some of the companies said that once LS gets a bit usable they will try it out and give us feedback if their sound libraries are played back correctly. thoughts ? cheers, Benno http://www.linuxsampler.org ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.gardena.net ------------------------------------------------------- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn _______________________________________________ Linuxsampler-devel mailing list Lin...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel |
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From: <be...@ga...> - 2004-01-27 14:32:04
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Scrive Vladimir Senkov <ha...@so...>: > Great work, awesome news! > > Ideally we should get to a point on the roadmap when sample producers > will be willing to take a particular LS release and approve it for their > samples. Then we won't need a lot of testers/time and they could get > maximum features back from LS. Yes this would be ideal. Eventually we should keep a list of sample libraries that are "certified" to work well with LS (and with which version) and/or if there are issues. Anyway I think as soon as the user/developer community of LS reaches critical mass playback imperfections will be ironed out pretty quickly (eg differing velocity curves, articulation issues etc). > What are the minimum features for LS to get to that kind of acceptance? > VSTi frontend, clusters, etc is all good stuff too, but I think to get > to that point LS probably just need to implement all the requirements of > the GIG format just like Christian said. So let's get a detailed TODO > list published on that, slice it and go for it! I agree. Basically first priority is decent GIG playback with a simple load&play GUI that can work on a windows/mac box too. Since Rui is using Qt, recompiling on Windows/Mac is just straightforward. Even if the network layer VSTi/Audiounit frontend is not done yet you could already use such LS machines professionally. Just put in a decent audio card and a midi interface and it works. But of course the networking support with midi and audio over LAN will lower the total cost of ownership of even more and make it easy to deploy large sampling clusters without costly audio interfaces, midi interfaces, cabling etc. BTW: some sample library producers are still a bit sceptical and would like to know more about LS and its roadmap. Probably it would be handy to write a document or some presentation (powerpoint-like) of what LS is what the current state of art is and what our short term and long term roadmap looks like. We don't like to be labeled as hypsters promising tons of features which will take years to get implemented etc. Since the source is available we have nothing to hide so we can live without marketing speak that's trying to sell hot air. This is why such a document that will be updated from time to time is useful for companies that are new to the LS project and want to collaborate with us. They cannot go through hundreds of mails on mailing lists, posts on forums etc. So we should summarize the nature, status and goal of project on our website so that is is easy to read for non developers too. > I should be able to contribute at least every other weekend at this > point. Excellent ! I hope to get back into LS development with full force soon too :-) cheers, Benno http://www.linuxsampler.org ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.gardena.net |
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From: Christian H. <ch...@gm...> - 2004-01-27 21:37:45
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On Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 03:26:19PM +0100, be...@ga... wrote: > Since Rui is using Qt, recompiling on Windows/Mac is just straightforward. > As long as you have a commercial license of QT3/Windows. Otherwise I think you'd need a Cygwin/XServer enviroment to run it. I can't really tell what the status of the GPLed native Win32 port of QT3 is (see http://kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net/qt3-win32) cheers, Christian Henz |
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From: <be...@ga...> - 2004-01-27 23:25:39
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Don't worry, I know that Qt/Windows is still not GPL and this hinders a bit the spreading of GPLed Qt apps on Windows since a commercial license is required. Cygwin is not fleasible and too messy IMHO, and the independent Qt/GPL project has probably not achieved maturity yet so I guess the best way to go is to use the commercial Qt/Windows version. Anyway we will find a solution which can be either letting some that owns a Qt commercial license compiling the app for us or perhaps let one of the companies I work for buying one or we can raise some funds to pay for a license. As said development can be done entirely on Linux so for now we don't need to worry about it. cheers, Benno http://www.linuxsampler.org Scrive Christian Henz <ch...@gm...>: > On Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 03:26:19PM +0100, be...@ga... wrote: > > > Since Rui is using Qt, recompiling on Windows/Mac is just straightforward. > > > > As long as you have a commercial license of QT3/Windows. Otherwise I think > you'd need a Cygwin/XServer enviroment to run it. I can't really tell what > the > status of the GPLed native Win32 port of QT3 is (see > http://kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net/qt3-win32) > > cheers, > Christian Henz > > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.gardena.net |
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From: Christian S. <chr...@ep...> - 2004-01-27 16:39:08
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Hey, Benno is alive! :) Es geschah am Dienstag, 27. Januar 2004 15:26 als be...@ga... schrieb: > BTW: some sample library producers are still a bit sceptical and would > like to know more about LS and its roadmap. > Probably it would be handy to write a document or some presentation > (powerpoint-like) of what LS is what the current state of art is and > what our short term and long term roadmap looks like. I already talked with Marek about that. I just didn't have the time to finish it due to my examinations. My idea was to make a graphical tree on the website with planned features, mark every feature that has been done by a green checkmark and features under development with a yellow symbol and perhaps in conjunction with the name of the developer who's currently working on it. That would avoid situations like Paul D. had recently when somebody else already worked on the same feature without knowing it. So developers add new feature points (when they got new ideas / proposals), branches to the tree by themselfes and put their names to a feature point before they decide to implement that planned feature. I could write a CGI script or something to make it convenient for developers. > > I should be able to contribute at least every other weekend at this > > point. > > Excellent ! > I hope to get back into LS development with full force soon too :-) loflol :))) How expandible is "soon" ? ;) CU Mr. Patience |
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From: Mark C. <ma...@re...> - 2004-01-27 17:09:44
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 02:34 am, Christian Schoenebeck wrote: > ... So > developers add new feature points (when they got new ideas / proposals), > branches to the tree by themselfes and put their names to a feature point > before they decide to implement that planned feature. > > I could write a CGI script or something to make it convenient for > developers. Just use a Wiki so it's generally useful for all kinds of docs and notes. I run http://alsa.opensrc.org and it's been getting 1/2 dozen edits a day now for the last few months. It dribbled along at 3 or 4 edits a week for a couple of years but now it's really cookin. --markc |
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From: Mark K. <mar...@co...> - 2004-01-27 18:09:39
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On Tue, 2004-01-27 at 09:08, Mark Constable wrote: > Just use a Wiki so it's generally useful for all kinds of > docs and notes. I run http://alsa.opensrc.org and it's been > getting 1/2 dozen edits a day now for the last few months. > It dribbled along at 3 or 4 edits a week for a couple of > years but now it's really cookin. > > --markc Hi, I really like the idea of a Wiki for more experienced users, but I'm concerned that for new users much of the info I've tried from the Alsa Wikis isn't correct and doesn't work, or is mostly correct but because of the poster isn't clear or not totally correct for specific sound cards, etc. For instance, comments about alsamixer are no longer useful for any of the RME HDSP line of cards, but that stuff never makes it there. I think that in the case of LS, where we are specifically trying to attract people away from the Windows world, that we should take extra special care and make sure that the Wiki contents are very accurate and clear. The Linux mantras about RTFM and joining mailing lists are likely to be a bad solution for a busy Windows/GS library developer who knows nothign about Linux and is trying this as a demo. If this can be done in a Wiki, either automatically or by hand, then great, but if not then I'd vote for a more controlled set of web pages with FAQ's and instructions written and tested by the group. BTW - can a LS GUI not point a user right to the LS home page, or to support? Can this work well from the Windows VSTi GUI? Cheers, Mark |
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From: Christian S. <chr...@ep...> - 2004-01-29 03:36:33
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Es geschah am Dienstag, 27. Januar 2004 18:08 als Mark Constable schrieb: > On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 02:34 am, Christian Schoenebeck wrote: > > ... So > > developers add new feature points (when they got new ideas / proposals), > > branches to the tree by themselfes and put their names to a feature point > > before they decide to implement that planned feature. > > > > I could write a CGI script or something to make it convenient for > > developers. > > Just use a Wiki so it's generally useful for all kinds of > docs and notes. I run http://alsa.opensrc.org and it's been > getting 1/2 dozen edits a day now for the last few months. > It dribbled along at 3 or 4 edits a week for a couple of > years but now it's really cookin. That would be nice for users, but I don't think this would be the right choice for the development roadmap. CU Christian |
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From: Mark K. <mar...@co...> - 2004-01-26 23:26:46
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On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 08:38, Vladimir Senkov wrote: > Great work, awesome news! > > Ideally we should get to a point on the roadmap when sample producers > will be willing to take a particular LS release and approve it for their > samples. Then we won't need a lot of testers/time and they could get > maximum features back from LS. > What are the minimum features for LS to get to that kind of acceptance? > VSTi frontend, clusters, etc is all good stuff too, but I think to get > to that point LS probably just need to implement all the requirements of > the GIG format just like Christian said. So let's get a detailed TODO > list published on that, slice it and go for it! > I should be able to contribute at least every other weekend at this > point. > > Regards, > Vladimir. Hi, I'll respond just a bit to Benno's email a bit later this evening when I get home, but in the meantime let me express complete agreement with you. Let's work on an agreed upon TODO list that has the features we all think would make the most impact right away. Since not too many people have GS3 yet, and since Tascam themselves show the use of a second PC as the solution for Mac users, I'd like to suggest that people in the Linux community consider just how hard it will be to get Northern Sound types to build and run a Linux box if they've never done it before. For this reason I was thinking that we might try to find a few interested people in that community that want to be early adopters and then give them some extra support. I know that at least four of the high-volume posters on Northern Sound live withing a 1 hour drive of where I live, so it's not out of the question that I could lend some hands on support for them if they need it, and time permitting. I also wonder about helping them with system configuration (networking, Alsa, etc.) via ssh connections. If we could link up specific people here with specific people in that community and build a bridge by making their first trials easier and more successful, then that would really get these folks to a more successful point more quickly and, I think, speak well for both Open Source and the Linux community in general. Remember, many will have never seen a Linux box. Many have no idea that we can fix problems in LA from Northern California like I do on my 74 year old fathers Gentoo box. We're not black box hackers here. I hope we can bring a few of these folks along. Just an idea. cheers, Mark |
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From: Steve H. <S.W...@ec...> - 2004-01-28 09:14:41
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On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 03:26:31 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: > Since not too many people have GS3 yet, and since Tascam themselves > show the use of a second PC as the solution for Mac users, I'd like to > suggest that people in the Linux community consider just how hard it > will be to get Northern Sound types to build and run a Linux box if > they've never done it before. For this reason I was thinking that we > might try to find a few interested people in that community that want to > be early adopters and then give them some extra support. This would be an ideal application for a CD based distro - it should be possbile to use the GS files mounted off a NTFS or VFAT partitiion and that way they wouldnt have to install anything, just reboot. I doesnt give them a setup they can use for much else ofcourse, but it could be the thin end of the wedge. - Steve |
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From: Mark K. <mar...@co...> - 2004-01-28 14:46:55
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On Wed, 2004-01-28 at 01:14, Steve Harris wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 03:26:31 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: > > Since not too many people have GS3 yet, and since Tascam themselves > > show the use of a second PC as the solution for Mac users, I'd like to > > suggest that people in the Linux community consider just how hard it > > will be to get Northern Sound types to build and run a Linux box if > > they've never done it before. For this reason I was thinking that we > > might try to find a few interested people in that community that want to > > be early adopters and then give them some extra support. > > This would be an ideal application for a CD based distro - it should be > possbile to use the GS files mounted off a NTFS or VFAT partitiion and > that way they wouldnt have to install anything, just reboot. > > I doesnt give them a setup they can use for much else ofcourse, but it > could be the thin end of the wedge. > > - Steve Thanks Steve. That's what I think. I was trying to imagine what happens when someone sticks a CD in there GSt machine and reboots into Linux. I understand from other threads that some of these Live CD distros can find networking devices and even 1394 devices, but I've not heard of any of them discovering specific sound cards and and actually bringing up Alsa automatically. So...how are these folks going to get Alsa running when presumably they won't even know how to run vi? Questions - Can Alsa be reliably started from a script file after the machien is booted? I've never tried modprobing every command in modules.conf. Would it work? Could we imagine putting together some scripts, and even doing a bit of custom vi work for early adopters, to build these scripts? I don't think it will be wise to send them to Alsa-org and ask them to study sound card pages just to try out a demo. They'll never want to use Linux after that experience!) ;-) If they are doing email on another Windows machine or a Mac, and they put it on a floppy, could some script that's already on the Live CD be run from a terminal and get Alsa started? #mount /mnt/floppy #start Alsa #adjust levels (remember, not all cards work with alsamixer) Just ideas about making this work so easily that an 80 year old Grandmother would have a chance of getting sound out. - Mark |
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From: Steve H. <S.W...@ec...> - 2004-01-28 15:47:10
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On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 06:45:51 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: > I was trying to imagine what happens when someone sticks a CD in there > GSt machine and reboots into Linux. I understand from other threads that > some of these Live CD distros can find networking devices and even 1394 > devices, but I've not heard of any of them discovering specific sound > cards and and actually bringing up Alsa automatically. So...how are > these folks going to get Alsa running when presumably they won't even > know how to run vi? Theres a CD distro called dynebolic (or osmething similar) that uses ALSA IIRC. > Questions - Can Alsa be reliably started from a script file after the > machien is booted? I've never tried modprobing every command in > modules.conf. Would it work? Could we imagine putting together some > scripts, and even doing a bit of custom vi work for early adopters, to > build these scripts? I don't think it will be wise to send them to > Alsa-org and ask them to study sound card pages just to try out a demo. > They'll never want to use Linux after that experience!) ;-) Yes, you can modprobe in the appropriate driver if you know what it is - thats what alsa-conf does. - Steve |
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From: Robert J. <rob...@da...> - 2004-01-28 23:31:53
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Hi, I think this live cd business would be a very good idea, especially for a tool like linuxsampler that can be used stand-alone. > Thanks Steve. That's what I think. > > I was trying to imagine what happens when someone sticks a CD in there > GSt machine and reboots into Linux. I understand from other threads that > some of these Live CD distros can find networking devices and even 1394 > devices, but I've not heard of any of them discovering specific sound > cards and and actually bringing up Alsa automatically. So...how are > these folks going to get Alsa running when presumably they won't even > know how to run vi? If I'm not mistaken the newer CD distros do use alsa and should autoconfigure quite nicely. MandrakeMove springs to mind as a distro that probably has autodetect of alsa. I imagine though that some pro-audio cards require some specific configurations to get going, this might prove hard. But then again they are not that many so it might be possible to provide specific scripts. /Robert > > Questions - Can Alsa be reliably started from a script file after the > machien is booted? I've never tried modprobing every command in > modules.conf. Would it work? Could we imagine putting together some > scripts, and even doing a bit of custom vi work for early adopters, to > build these scripts? I don't think it will be wise to send them to > Alsa-org and ask them to study sound card pages just to try out a demo. > They'll never want to use Linux after that experience!) ;-) > > If they are doing email on another Windows machine or a Mac, and they > put it on a floppy, could some script that's already on the Live CD be > run from a terminal and get Alsa started? > > #mount /mnt/floppy > #start Alsa > #adjust levels (remember, not all cards work with alsamixer) > > Just ideas about making this work so easily that an 80 year old > Grandmother would have a chance of getting sound out. > > - Mark > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 > Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration > See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. > http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn > _______________________________________________ > Linuxsampler-devel mailing list > Lin...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel |
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From: Mark K. <mar...@co...> - 2004-01-29 00:27:59
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On Wed, 2004-01-28 at 15:28, Robert Jonsson wrote: > > If I'm not mistaken the newer CD distros do use alsa and should autoconfigure > quite nicely. MandrakeMove springs to mind as a distro that probably has > autodetect of alsa. > > I imagine though that some pro-audio cards require some specific > configurations to get going, this might prove hard. > But then again they are not that many so it might be possible to provide > specific scripts. > > /Robert > I have 5 machines, all with different sound cards I can try. I'm downloading Dynebolic as we speak and will give the others a try as we go. I'm sure there's time to solve this before LS is ready to go to a public beta for Windows users. It will be interesting to see how this works. For instance, my GSt machine has two sound cards and 2 hard drives. I look forward to seeing how far autoconfig works. I expect probably pretty well. Cheers, Mark |
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From: Steve H. <S.W...@ec...> - 2004-01-26 14:52:19
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Great news, Benno :) On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 01:12:20 +0100, be...@ga... wrote: > On the other hand sample library producers have concerns about piracy, so > they are interested if sample content can be protected while keeping > the sampler open. We should think about those issues over the long term. Sadly I dont think thats possible - encryption/security always relies on some secret, and there are no secrets in (purely) open source software. An option might be a closed-source licence server (for networks of machines), best would be if we could use an existing, trusted UNIX licence server, like the one matlab uses. Even then its really hard. - Steve |
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From: Vladimir S. <ha...@so...> - 2004-02-01 19:43:13
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Steve, Even with license server(s), usb plug(s), etc, etc. I don't think this is possible. Because the person who has license one way or another (usb plug, license server, etc) could always extract the sample from it's "secure" format and save it into a regular gig. You could try to put something like a signature into a sample so that it will be inaudible but still detectable in the end product. So that if someone produces a track you could tell if your sample was used there or not. But with all the filtering, effects and compression it is close to impossible . . . Regards, Vladimir. Steve Harris wrote: >Great news, Benno :) > >On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 01:12:20 +0100, be...@ga... wrote: > > >>On the other hand sample library producers have concerns about piracy, so >>they are interested if sample content can be protected while keeping >>the sampler open. We should think about those issues over the long term. >> >> > >Sadly I dont think thats possible - encryption/security always relies on >some secret, and there are no secrets in (purely) open source software. > >An option might be a closed-source licence server (for networks of >machines), best would be if we could use an existing, trusted UNIX licence >server, like the one matlab uses. > >Even then its really hard. > >- Steve > > >------------------------------------------------------- >The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 >Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration >See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. >http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn >_______________________________________________ >Linuxsampler-devel mailing list >Lin...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel > > > |
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From: Steve H. <S.W...@ec...> - 2004-02-01 20:07:15
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On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 02:41:44 -0500, Vladimir Senkov wrote: > Steve, > > Even with license server(s), usb plug(s), etc, etc. I don't think this > is possible. > Because the person who has license one way or another (usb plug, license > server, etc) could always extract the sample from it's "secure" format > and save it into a regular gig. Agreed, after giving it some more though I dont think its possible - the user controls the hardware thats playing back the data, so you cant keep it from them. OTOH the situation is not worse than it is on Mac/Win. - Steve |
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From: Vladimir S. <ha...@so...> - 2004-02-01 21:08:13
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Steve, Well the situation is not worse, but it is different. Traditionally, the users were not in control of their software. So if format is closed and "secure" and application requires a usb plug to open those files and application does not provide a way for the user to export "secure" files into "insecure" files then the users will either not be able to redistribute the data or they'll have to write the application to do so. Now the situation is changing because applications become more available and users are more in control. In reality, true security does not exist here at all. Microsoft and other proprietary software vendors keep putting "licensing features" in their software, but as we move away from proprietary software we are at square one on licensing . . . What can sample producers do? One thing they can certainly do is to create samples so big that they can not be downloaded in reasonable time. Say instead of CDs package them on DVDs. Then stealing will be limited to those folks who know each other personally and exchange those DVDs. This will continue to happen for as long as we live, i don't think we can do anything about that. In reality, if you are doing serious business, you will not be able to do it alone. As soon as you are not alone, you'll not be able to use stolen samples. You project manager is going to know what software you are using, what sample you are using, etc,etc. Other people would know. It'll probably not be your personal money so why steal? If it's a one man project it probably is not that big of a deal if a small percentage of people swap DVDs . . . Comapnies who produce samples should perhaps consider renting samples for those folks to extract some revenue out of them as well. Regards, Vladimir. Steve Harris wrote: >On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 02:41:44 -0500, Vladimir Senkov wrote: > > >>Steve, >> >>Even with license server(s), usb plug(s), etc, etc. I don't think this >>is possible. >>Because the person who has license one way or another (usb plug, license >>server, etc) could always extract the sample from it's "secure" format >>and save it into a regular gig. >> >> > >Agreed, after giving it some more though I dont think its possible - the >user controls the hardware thats playing back the data, so you cant keep >it from them. > >OTOH the situation is not worse than it is on Mac/Win. > >- Steve > > >------------------------------------------------------- >The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 >Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration >See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. >http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn >_______________________________________________ >Linuxsampler-devel mailing list >Lin...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel > > > |
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