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From: José F. M. <fer...@zy...> - 2016-06-22 12:17:38
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Hello Christian and other LinuxSampler developpers! My name is José Fernando Moyano, from Barcelona, Spain. I'm the main developer and founder of Zynthian Project: http://blog.zynthian.org http://zynthian.org Zynthian is a completely open platform for Sound Synthesis: + Open Hardware Specification, based in Raspberry Pi + Open Source Software Currently, it's a DIY project, and we don't sell any device, only some specific PCBs and spare parts, to ease the building process. Anyway, schemes and PCB files are freely available in our repositories: https://github.com/zynthian In the last months, we've integrated Linuxsampler in our project, and we are really happy with the results. It runs perfectly well in the Rapsberry Pi platform, with a decent SD card. Congratulations and thanks for this wonderful piece of software! So, we've included linuxsampler's binary (installed as a Debian package from Autostatic repository) in our latest SD images. This images are debian (raspbian) based images with some specific config adjustments and some specific software installed on it, including some standalone synthesizers, LV2 plugins, LV2 hosts and the zynthian UI. Of course, every piece of software is Open Source. Also, we have a "setup script" in our repository, that can be executed on a raw raspbian installation to setup a zynthian box. As we really think that the "commercial" limitation of LinuxSampler license does not apply to Zynthian Project, we haven't contacted you before, but recently we have received some questions related to this subject and we would like to avoid any misunderstanding, so we have decided to contact and ask your opinion. + Do you think there is some problem with including linuxsampler's binary in our freely available SD images? + Do you think that we are breaking your license if we sell DIY kits, or organize workshops? Thank you very much, Best Regards! -- José Fernando Moyano Dominguez + Email: fer...@zy... + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zynthian: the Open Synth Platform + Web: http://zynthian.org + Blog: http://blog.zynthian.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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From: Christian S. <sch...@li...> - 2016-06-22 12:49:35
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On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 14:01:04 José Fernando Moyano wrote: > + Do you think there is some problem with including linuxsampler's > binary in our freely available SD images? > > + Do you think that we are breaking your license if we sell DIY kits, or > organize workshops? You are selling the devices for money, so yes, you do sell a commercial product and hence you are not allowed to use LinuxSampler without our prior permission! Just the fact that you are using open source components does not mean you are not violating the license. You do! The download page is pretty short and clear on that, quote: "... USAGE of the source code, libraries and applications FOR COMMERCIAL HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE PRODUCTS IS NOT ALLOWED without prior written permission by the LinuxSampler authors." You may acquire a commercial license for the sampler for your products, but in the meantime, since you haven't acquired a commercial license of the sampler yet, please stop using LinuxSampler with your products immediately! CU Christian |
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From: José F. M. <fer...@zy...> - 2016-06-28 11:12:31
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Hi Christian! El 23/06/16 a las 14:20, Christian Schoenebeck escribió: > And that's the point where the game changes. As soon as you sell either a > software or hardware in conjunction with LinuxSampler, it becomes a commercial > product using LinuxSampler. And to be clear on that: at this point "somebody" 1.) We don't sell any software. Never. All the software we create is GPLed. 2.) The hardware we sell as DIY kits is very generic. It's not designed to work with LinuxSampler in anyway. It can run Linuxsampler in the same way a Laptop or a Desktop computer can run LinuxSampler. It's a generic sound-dedicated small-computer. I suposse that Dell, Compaq or any Clonic Builder/Reseller don't violate the LinuxSampler license, althought they can claim that their "devices" can run LinuxSampler. Zynthian case is the same, with a different User Interface, based in RotaryEncoders+Switches instead of Mouse+Keyboard. > asks for money, so that specific person (and accordingly the company or > organization (s)he legally acts on behalf) would violate the license. > > There is nothing wrong to offer free open source software in conjunction with > LinuxSampler on websites to the public, free of charge for everybody. Nor is > it wrong to conduct work shops for money. This was never our objection. But > selling a hardware kit with or for LinuxSampler without our prior permission > is clearly violating the license. > > Does this make it more clear? I hope yes. We want to be friends, please ;-) Best Regards! -- José Fernando Moyano Dominguez + Email: fer...@zy... + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zynthian: the Open Synth Platform + Web: http://zynthian.org + Blog: http://blog.zynthian.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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From: RDP <gli...@gm...> - 2016-06-28 11:29:16
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Hi, Looks like a very interesting *hardware* project. ;o) Instead of all these words, pleas, and apparent implied restrictions.. would someone kindly care to point out, *EXACT:LY* where the GPL is being battered/bent/broken? ;o) Thanks. Cheers! Chris. On 28 June 2016 at 12:12, José Fernando Moyano <fer...@zy...> wrote: > Hi Christian! > > El 23/06/16 a las 14:20, Christian Schoenebeck escribió: >> And that's the point where the game changes. As soon as you sell either a >> software or hardware in conjunction with LinuxSampler, it becomes a commercial >> product using LinuxSampler. And to be clear on that: at this point "somebody" > > 1.) We don't sell any software. Never. All the software we create is GPLed. > > 2.) The hardware we sell as DIY kits is very generic. It's not designed > to work with LinuxSampler in anyway. It can run Linuxsampler in the same > way a Laptop or a Desktop computer can run LinuxSampler. It's a generic > sound-dedicated small-computer. > > I suposse that Dell, Compaq or any Clonic Builder/Reseller don't violate > the LinuxSampler license, althought they can claim that their "devices" > can run LinuxSampler. Zynthian case is the same, with a different User > Interface, based in RotaryEncoders+Switches instead of Mouse+Keyboard. > >> asks for money, so that specific person (and accordingly the company or >> organization (s)he legally acts on behalf) would violate the license. >> >> There is nothing wrong to offer free open source software in conjunction with >> LinuxSampler on websites to the public, free of charge for everybody. Nor is >> it wrong to conduct work shops for money. This was never our objection. But >> selling a hardware kit with or for LinuxSampler without our prior permission >> is clearly violating the license. >> >> Does this make it more clear? > > I hope yes. We want to be friends, please ;-) > > Best Regards! > > -- > José Fernando Moyano Dominguez > + Email: fer...@zy... > + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Zynthian: the Open Synth Platform > + Web: http://zynthian.org > + Blog: http://blog.zynthian.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > _______________________________________________ > Linuxsampler-devel mailing list > Lin...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel > |
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From: José F. M. <fer...@zy...> - 2016-06-28 12:03:07
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The discussion is about LinuxSampler License, that is not GPL. Regards! El 28/06/16 a las 13:29, RDP escribió: > Hi, > > Looks like a very interesting *hardware* project. ;o) > > Instead of all these words, pleas, and apparent implied restrictions.. > would someone kindly care to point out, *EXACT:LY* where the GPL > is being battered/bent/broken? ;o) > > Thanks. > > Cheers! > > > > > Chris. > > On 28 June 2016 at 12:12, José Fernando Moyano <fer...@zy...> wrote: >> Hi Christian! >> >> El 23/06/16 a las 14:20, Christian Schoenebeck escribió: >>> And that's the point where the game changes. As soon as you sell either a >>> software or hardware in conjunction with LinuxSampler, it becomes a commercial >>> product using LinuxSampler. And to be clear on that: at this point "somebody" >> 1.) We don't sell any software. Never. All the software we create is GPLed. >> >> 2.) The hardware we sell as DIY kits is very generic. It's not designed >> to work with LinuxSampler in anyway. It can run Linuxsampler in the same >> way a Laptop or a Desktop computer can run LinuxSampler. It's a generic >> sound-dedicated small-computer. >> >> I suposse that Dell, Compaq or any Clonic Builder/Reseller don't violate >> the LinuxSampler license, althought they can claim that their "devices" >> can run LinuxSampler. Zynthian case is the same, with a different User >> Interface, based in RotaryEncoders+Switches instead of Mouse+Keyboard. >> >>> asks for money, so that specific person (and accordingly the company or >>> organization (s)he legally acts on behalf) would violate the license. >>> >>> There is nothing wrong to offer free open source software in conjunction with >>> LinuxSampler on websites to the public, free of charge for everybody. Nor is >>> it wrong to conduct work shops for money. This was never our objection. But >>> selling a hardware kit with or for LinuxSampler without our prior permission >>> is clearly violating the license. >>> >>> Does this make it more clear? >> I hope yes. We want to be friends, please ;-) >> >> Best Regards! >> >> -- >> José Fernando Moyano Dominguez >> + Email: fer...@zy... >> + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Zynthian: the Open Synth Platform >> + Web: http://zynthian.org >> + Blog: http://blog.zynthian.org >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San >> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries >> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for >> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. >> http://sdm.link/attshape >> _______________________________________________ >> Linuxsampler-devel mailing list >> Lin...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > _______________________________________________ > Linuxsampler-devel mailing list > Lin...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel -- José Fernando Moyano Dominguez + Email: fer...@zy... + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zynthian: the Open Synth Platform + Web: http://zynthian.org + Blog: http://blog.zynthian.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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From: RDP <gli...@gm...> - 2016-06-28 15:23:48
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On 28 June 2016 at 13:02, José Fernando Moyano <fer...@zy...> wrote:
> The discussion is about LinuxSampler License, that is not GPL.
This page..
http://linuxsampler.org/downloads.html
.. states linuxsampler as being licensed under GPL with 'commercial exception'
That commercial exception, being ( snipped and quoted for the sake of
pedantism ),
'..under the GNU GPL with the exception that USAGE of the source code,
libraries and applications *FOR* COMMERCIAL HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE
PRODUCTS IS NOT ALLOWED without prior written permission..'
So, I think my query remains a valid one. Exactly how are the terms of
the GPL and in this instance, the tagged on 'commercial exception'
being broken? I don't see it. Wires get crossed somewhere, maybe?
;o)
Regards,
Chris.
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From: Christian S. <sch...@li...> - 2016-06-28 14:33:36
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On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 13:12:14 José Fernando Moyano wrote: > Hi Christian! > > El 23/06/16 a las 14:20, Christian Schoenebeck escribió: > > And that's the point where the game changes. As soon as you sell either a > > software or hardware in conjunction with LinuxSampler, it becomes a > > commercial product using LinuxSampler. And to be clear on that: at this > > point "somebody" > 1.) We don't sell any software. Never. All the software we create is GPLed. Got that. > 2.) The hardware we sell as DIY kits is very generic. It's not designed > to work with LinuxSampler in anyway. It can run Linuxsampler in the same > way a Laptop or a Desktop computer can run LinuxSampler. It's a generic > sound-dedicated small-computer. If the hardware is not designed, nor intended to be used with LinuxSampler, then there is nothing your should be worried about. But I guess there is some reason why you came over here and asked. So there is probably some kind of intention for it to be used with LinuxSampler, isn't it? > I suposse that Dell, Compaq or any Clonic Builder/Reseller don't violate > the LinuxSampler license, althought they can claim that their "devices" > can run LinuxSampler. Zynthian case is the same, with a different User > Interface, based in RotaryEncoders+Switches instead of Mouse+Keyboard. Well, obviously Dell computers etc. are sold as general purpose computers. So the difference between those hardware products and probably "yours" (whoever actually sells the hardware in the end) is that "you" probably create a connection between "your" hardware product and LinuxSampler. Now the question is what kind of connection is that? Do you ship the hardware with LinuxSampler already installed? Do you ship the hardware with an installer which is going to automatically install LinuxSampler for the customer? Do you promote your hardware product to provide a sampler and that sampler is LinuxSampler? Do you conduct workshops where you promote and/or sell your hardware products in connection with LinuxSampler? Anything else I probably did not mention? You know there are a load of people who contact us who want to sell hardware products with LinuxSampler, and most of them do not want to acquire a commercial license for it, so they always try to argue why they think they don't need to ask us for permission to use the sampler with a commercial product. But in the end in 99% of the cases they are just trying to find a way to circumvent our commercial restriction. And that is the primary reason why this sampler is not distributed under a pure FOSS standard license, because most commercial actors are just exploiting open source components to sell products without any intention to give back *anything* to the people who created those open source components. I mean you came over here, and instead of first asking like "Hey, we probably might want to use the sampler with a commercial hardware product, could we get the permission to do so?", instead you immediately start a discussion why, from your point of view, you don't have to ask us for any permission at all. But the fact that you came over here and started a discussions about it shows that you are not convinced about your own claims by yourself. For good reasons. If "you" gain money by selling commercial products based on open source components, would it be *THAT* problematic to only forward a small subset of the profit you made to the people who created those open source components, components which actually added real value to your product(s)? If you had asked me that polite question mentioned by me above and I had answered: "You know what, forward us couple cents of each device you sell and you can do that", would you still invest energy and time to discuss license details over here? Would it hurt you? Would you sell less devices? But the sad fact is that you, like most other ones, cannot even consider that. > > asks for money, so that specific person (and accordingly the company or > > organization (s)he legally acts on behalf) would violate the license. > > > > There is nothing wrong to offer free open source software in conjunction > > with LinuxSampler on websites to the public, free of charge for > > everybody. Nor is it wrong to conduct work shops for money. This was > > never our objection. But selling a hardware kit with or for LinuxSampler > > without our prior permission is clearly violating the license. > > > > Does this make it more clear? > > I hope yes. We want to be friends, please ;-) Well, so far I rather get the impression that your only intention is to use the sampler with products for free, without any obligations. Not to make any friendship over here. I mean have you ever been active in some way over here? Have you ever sent any patch or discussed technical issues here, asked how you could help this project, answered questions of users on this list or on the forum or whatever? CU Christian |
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From: Christian S. <sch...@li...> - 2016-06-28 16:25:14
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On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 16:38:48 RDP wrote: > On 28 June 2016 at 15:38, Christian Schoenebeck > <sch...@li...> wrote: > > <snip> > If "you" gain money by selling commercial products based on open source > components, would it be *THAT* problematic to only forward a small subset of > the profit you made to the people who created those open source components, > <snip> > > Good point. If it is a (semi-)commercial product, then why don't you > all come to some form of mutual and amicable cooperative agreement > rather than bickering? Sense of proprotion people, sense of > proportion! ;o) Exactly! But as you might see, like in many other commercial inquiries we had in the past, they are not even interested in discussing any kind of agreement at all. They just keep going why they think they should not be obliged to ask for any commercial permission at all. Even if that commercial agreement would just be a matter of couple cents or even some kind of non-monetary one. You might hate it or not, but the fact is, if you sell a hardware product with or for LinuxSampler, then you have to ask for our prior permission. If you don't even want to bother to ask for our permission, then OK, use it privately, modify it, put it on websites, use it in any way you want, *but* please : don't sell any commercial software and/or hardware product in combination with LinuxSampler without asking us first. It is a simple rule and IMHO just fair. And José: we actually granted commercial permissions for free to numerous people and companies in the past. So sometimes it is really just about common politeness instead of arguing about our license terms. CU Christian |
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From: RDP <gli...@gm...> - 2016-06-29 18:53:55
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On 28 June 2016 at 17:29, Christian Schoenebeck <sch...@li...> > > They just keep going why they think they should not be obliged to ask for any > commercial permission at all. Even if that commercial agreement would just be > a matter of couple cents or even some kind of non-monetary one. Such as showcasing a running LinuxSampler at that Sonar+D in Barcelona, maybe? ;o) , > You might hate it or not, but the fact is, if you sell a hardware product with > or for LinuxSampler, then you have to ask for our prior permission. If you > don't even want to bother to ask for our permission, then OK, use it > privately, modify it, put it on websites, use it in any way you want, > *but* please : don't sell any commercial software and/or hardware product in > combination with LinuxSampler without asking us first. > > It is a simple rule and IMHO just fair. For what it is worth, I'm in full agreement with you. Perhaps on thsi occasion, José Fernando's enthusiasm for his project slightly got the better of him? > And José: we actually granted commercial permissions for free to numerous > people and companies in the past. So sometimes it is really just about common > politeness instead of arguing about our license terms. How abut a profuse and grovelling apology José, for going abiut this bull before horns? Then you can both start from the top anew! What say you? ;o) Regards, Chris. |
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From: José F. M. <fer...@zy...> - 2016-06-28 15:32:00
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Hi Christian! El 28/06/16 a las 16:38, Christian Schoenebeck escribió: > On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 13:12:14 José Fernando Moyano wrote: >> 2.) The hardware we sell as DIY kits is very generic. It's not designed >> to work with LinuxSampler in anyway. It can run Linuxsampler in the same >> way a Laptop or a Desktop computer can run LinuxSampler. It's a generic >> sound-dedicated small-computer. > > If the hardware is not designed, nor intended to be used with LinuxSampler, > then there is nothing your should be worried about. But I guess there is some > reason why you came over here and asked. So there is probably some kind of > intention for it to be used with LinuxSampler, isn't it? There is intention to being used with ANY free software synthesizer that can be run on it. Linuxsampler is only on more in the list. >> I suposse that Dell, Compaq or any Clonic Builder/Reseller don't violate >> the LinuxSampler license, althought they can claim that their "devices" >> can run LinuxSampler. Zynthian case is the same, with a different User >> Interface, based in RotaryEncoders+Switches instead of Mouse+Keyboard. > > Well, obviously Dell computers etc. are sold as general purpose computers. So > the difference between those hardware products and probably "yours" (whoever > actually sells the hardware in the end) is that "you" probably create a > connection between "your" hardware product and LinuxSampler. Now the question Zynthian is not a product. It's an open specification for building a small-sound-computer with a UI well suited for live performing and sound operation. Everybody can download ALL the schemes and specifications. We don't hide nothing. It's an open platform. Hardware and software is Open. We sell the kits to promote the project, and of course, to cover the costs. The profit is negligible. > is what kind of connection is that? Do you ship the hardware with LinuxSampler > already installed? Do you ship the hardware with an installer which is going We don't include/ship ANY kind of software with the kits. Never. The software can be downloaded by everybody from Internet, as everything is free / open source software. > to automatically install LinuxSampler for the customer? Do you promote your > hardware product to provide a sampler and that sampler is LinuxSampler? Do you It's an open specification for building a small-sound-computer with a UI well suited for live performing and sound operation. Everybody can download ALL the schemes and specifications. We don't hide nothing. It's an open platform. Hardware and software is Open. We sell the kits to promote the project, and of course, to cover the costs. The profit is negligible. > conduct workshops where you promote and/or sell your hardware products in > connection with LinuxSampler? Anything else I probably did not mention? If you prefer, we can avoid to mention LinuxSampler in our WorkShops, web, blogs. Bad for you, bad for us. Completely not sense IMHO ;-( > You know there are a load of people who contact us who want to sell hardware > products with LinuxSampler, and most of them do not want to acquire a > commercial license for it, so they always try to argue why they think they > don't need to ask us for permission to use the sampler with a commercial I think you are wrong with Zynthian ;-) > product. But in the end in 99% of the cases they are just trying to find a way > to circumvent our commercial restriction. And that is the primary reason why > this sampler is not distributed under a pure FOSS standard license, because > most commercial actors are just exploiting open source components to sell > products without any intention to give back *anything* to the people who > created those open source components. Zynthian is, and always will be, an Open Platform, so we are giving back to the community from the beginning. All the software we develop is GPL. All the hardware we develop has a public specification. We have publicated the schemes and gerber files for every specific PCB and part, the Bill Of Materials, STLs for 3D printing of enclosures, DWGs and DXFs with the schemes for building the steel or aluminium boxes, tutorials, everything. http://blog.zynthian.org http://wiki.zynthian.org https://github.com/zynthian > I mean you came over here, and instead of first asking like "Hey, we probably > might want to use the sampler with a commercial hardware product, could we get > the permission to do so?", instead you immediately start a discussion why, > from your point of view, you don't have to ask us for any permission at all. > But the fact that you came over here and started a discussions about it shows > that you are not convinced about your own claims by yourself. For good > reasons. You are completely wrong, Christian, and really, i don't know why we are discussing. As you tell me, perhaps the error was contacting you. I've contacted you as a kind of "courtesy" and to avoid missunderstandings, not because i had any doubt about this. Really, i'm very very surprised by your attitude. I never waited this kind of treatment by your part. > If "you" gain money by selling commercial products based on open source > components, would it be *THAT* problematic to only forward a small subset of > the profit you made to the people who created those open source components, > components which actually added real value to your product(s)? If you had > asked me that polite question mentioned by me above and I had answered: "You > know what, forward us couple cents of each device you sell and you can do > that", would you still invest energy and time to discuss license details over > here? Would it hurt you? Would you sell less devices? But the sad fact is that > you, like most other ones, cannot even consider that. We don't sell ANY kind of device. We only sell kits that help, partially, to build a ZynthianBox. And i say "partially" because you need to buy a RaspberryPi, a soundcard, a touchsscreen and other components by yourself. Our kits only include some specific PCBs for the controller parts. Zynthian is an open specification for building a small-sound-computer with a UI well suited for live performing and sound operation. Everybody can download ALL the schemes and specifications. We don't hide nothing. Zynthian is, and always will be, an Open Platform, so we are giving back to the community from the beginning. All the software we develop is GPL. All the hardware we develop has a public specification. We have published the schemes and gerber files for every specific PCB and part, the Bill Of Materials, STLs for 3D printing of enclosures, DWGs and DXFs with the schemes for building the steel or aluminium boxes, tutorials, everything: http://blog.zynthian.org http://wiki.zynthian.org https://github.com/zynthian Really, i'm very sorry to have begun this discussion, as i think it's a complete non sense, but, as i've started, i would like to make you understand what Zynthian is and what is not, so we can be "friends" and collaborate as "Open Source Projects". That's all. Best Regards! -- José Fernando Moyano Dominguez + Email: fer...@zy... + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zynthian: the Open Synth Platform + Web: http://zynthian.org + Blog: http://blog.zynthian.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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From: RDP <gli...@gm...> - 2016-06-28 15:38:56
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On 28 June 2016 at 15:38, Christian Schoenebeck
<sch...@li...> wrote:
<snip>
If "you" gain money by selling commercial products based on open source
components, would it be *THAT* problematic to only forward a small subset of
the profit you made to the people who created those open source components,
<snip>
Good point. If it is a (semi-)commercial product, then why don't you
all come to some form of mutual and amicable cooperative agreement
rather than bickering? Sense of proprotion people, sense of
proportion! ;o)
Incidentally...
http://blog.zynthian.org/
Unless there is a secret ( commercial ) benfactor/sponsor or two
lurking in the jolly old background,, and even if there is, may one
ask roughly - give us a ball ball park figure do - how much one of
these stands costs, .exactly? Would linuxsampler be showcased? ;o)
My penny/(euro)cents worth..
Cheers!
Chris.
;o)
> On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 13:12:14 José Fernando Moyano wrote:
>> Hi Christian!
>>
>> El 23/06/16 a las 14:20, Christian Schoenebeck escribió:
>> > And that's the point where the game changes. As soon as you sell either a
>> > software or hardware in conjunction with LinuxSampler, it becomes a
>> > commercial product using LinuxSampler. And to be clear on that: at this
>> > point "somebody"
>> 1.) We don't sell any software. Never. All the software we create is GPLed.
>
> Got that.
>
>> 2.) The hardware we sell as DIY kits is very generic. It's not designed
>> to work with LinuxSampler in anyway. It can run Linuxsampler in the same
>> way a Laptop or a Desktop computer can run LinuxSampler. It's a generic
>> sound-dedicated small-computer.
>
> If the hardware is not designed, nor intended to be used with LinuxSampler,
> then there is nothing your should be worried about. But I guess there is some
> reason why you came over here and asked. So there is probably some kind of
> intention for it to be used with LinuxSampler, isn't it?
>
>> I suposse that Dell, Compaq or any Clonic Builder/Reseller don't violate
>> the LinuxSampler license, althought they can claim that their "devices"
>> can run LinuxSampler. Zynthian case is the same, with a different User
>> Interface, based in RotaryEncoders+Switches instead of Mouse+Keyboard.
>
> Well, obviously Dell computers etc. are sold as general purpose computers. So
> the difference between those hardware products and probably "yours" (whoever
> actually sells the hardware in the end) is that "you" probably create a
> connection between "your" hardware product and LinuxSampler. Now the question
> is what kind of connection is that? Do you ship the hardware with LinuxSampler
> already installed? Do you ship the hardware with an installer which is going
> to automatically install LinuxSampler for the customer? Do you promote your
> hardware product to provide a sampler and that sampler is LinuxSampler? Do you
> conduct workshops where you promote and/or sell your hardware products in
> connection with LinuxSampler? Anything else I probably did not mention?
>
> You know there are a load of people who contact us who want to sell hardware
> products with LinuxSampler, and most of them do not want to acquire a
> commercial license for it, so they always try to argue why they think they
> don't need to ask us for permission to use the sampler with a commercial
> product. But in the end in 99% of the cases they are just trying to find a way
> to circumvent our commercial restriction. And that is the primary reason why
> this sampler is not distributed under a pure FOSS standard license, because
> most commercial actors are just exploiting open source components to sell
> products without any intention to give back *anything* to the people who
> created those open source components.
>
> I mean you came over here, and instead of first asking like "Hey, we probably
> might want to use the sampler with a commercial hardware product, could we get
> the permission to do so?", instead you immediately start a discussion why,
> from your point of view, you don't have to ask us for any permission at all.
> But the fact that you came over here and started a discussions about it shows
> that you are not convinced about your own claims by yourself. For good
> reasons.
>
> If "you" gain money by selling commercial products based on open source
> components, would it be *THAT* problematic to only forward a small subset of
> the profit you made to the people who created those open source components,
> components which actually added real value to your product(s)? If you had
> asked me that polite question mentioned by me above and I had answered: "You
> know what, forward us couple cents of each device you sell and you can do
> that", would you still invest energy and time to discuss license details over
> here? Would it hurt you? Would you sell less devices? But the sad fact is that
> you, like most other ones, cannot even consider that.
>
>> > asks for money, so that specific person (and accordingly the company or
>> > organization (s)he legally acts on behalf) would violate the license.
>> >
>> > There is nothing wrong to offer free open source software in conjunction
>> > with LinuxSampler on websites to the public, free of charge for
>> > everybody. Nor is it wrong to conduct work shops for money. This was
>> > never our objection. But selling a hardware kit with or for LinuxSampler
>> > without our prior permission is clearly violating the license.
>> >
>> > Does this make it more clear?
>>
>> I hope yes. We want to be friends, please ;-)
>
> Well, so far I rather get the impression that your only intention is to use
> the sampler with products for free, without any obligations. Not to make any
> friendship over here. I mean have you ever been active in some way over here?
> Have you ever sent any patch or discussed technical issues here, asked how you
> could help this project, answered questions of users on this list or on the
> forum or whatever?
>
> CU
> Christian
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San
> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
> http://sdm.link/attshape
> _______________________________________________
> Linuxsampler-devel mailing list
> Lin...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel
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From: José F. M. <fer...@zy...> - 2016-06-28 16:35:44
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El 28/06/16 a las 17:38, RDP escribió: > On 28 June 2016 at 15:38, Christian Schoenebeck > <sch...@li...> wrote: > > Incidentally... > > http://blog.zynthian.org/ > > Unless there is a secret ( commercial ) benfactor/sponsor or two > lurking in the jolly old background,, and even if there is, may one > ask roughly - give us a ball ball park figure do - how much one of > these stands costs, .exactly? Would linuxsampler be showcased? ;o) Of course, i have no secrets: + IMPERDIBLE stand => completely free. COTEC foundation payed the party for everybody ;-) + SONAR stand => 844 euros (payed from my own bucket) And yes, LinuxSampler was installed and used in the showcased zynthian boxes. Also many others as: + ZynAddSubFX + setBfree + Dexed + FluidSynth + MDA plugins + TAL plugins + and many many more free software sound plugins We sold exactly 0 devices and won exactly 0 euros. Well, i payed 844 euros to be there, only because i love SONAR festival and wanted to feel the waves, and spread the project into the music world, sharing space with the most commercial products side by side. You can see that as a kind of personal whim ;-) Do you want numbers? Not a problem for me ... Until now, we have sold exactly 6 kits in 6 months, with an average price of 80 euros. The cost of materials is about 50, so we have a huge profit of 180 euros in 6 months. I've started thinking about buying my first Ferrary ;-D The question here is that everybody can use the specification to print PCBs and sell kits. I hope that many people do that, earn some money and spread Zynthian Project along the world, spreading Free Software too, and competing with closed products. That is what we all want? Or what? Best Regards! -- José Fernando Moyano Dominguez + Email: fer...@za... + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZauBeR: Soluciones de Software a medida + Web: http://www.zauber.es ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ǝsʇ oɐ| ˙o|ǝıɔ |ǝp ouıɯɐɔ |ǝ sǝ ǝsǝ ˙ǝʇɐɹıʇǝɹ 'opɐqɐɔɐ ǝʇsǝ oɾɐqɐɹʇ nʇ opuɐnɔ -- José Fernando Moyano Dominguez + Email: fer...@zy... + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zynthian: the Open Synth Platform + Web: http://zynthian.org + Blog: http://blog.zynthian.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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From: RDP <gli...@gm...> - 2016-06-28 15:51:41
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On 28 June 2016 at 16:31, José Fernando Moyano <fer...@zy...> wrote: > Zynthian is not a product. It's an open specification for building a > small-sound-computer with a UI well suited for live performing and sound > operation. Everybody can download ALL the schemes and specifications. We > don't hide nothing. > > It's an open platform. Hardware and software is Open. We sell the kits > to promote the project, and of course, to cover the costs. The profit is > negligible. Then I humbly suggest, you go get yourself listed.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_hardware_projects Regards, Chris. |
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From: José F. M. <fer...@zy...> - 2016-06-28 16:36:49
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Thanks! Yes, i have to create the Wikipedia entry. I will try to do it today ... yep! ;-) Best Regards! El 28/06/16 a las 17:51, RDP escribió: > On 28 June 2016 at 16:31, José Fernando Moyano <fer...@zy...> wrote: >> Zynthian is not a product. It's an open specification for building a >> small-sound-computer with a UI well suited for live performing and sound >> operation. Everybody can download ALL the schemes and specifications. We >> don't hide nothing. >> >> It's an open platform. Hardware and software is Open. We sell the kits >> to promote the project, and of course, to cover the costs. The profit is >> negligible. > Then I humbly suggest, you go get yourself listed.. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_hardware_projects > > Regards, > > > Chris. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > _______________________________________________ > Linuxsampler-devel mailing list > Lin...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel -- José Fernando Moyano Dominguez + Email: fer...@zy... + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zynthian: the Open Synth Platform + Web: http://zynthian.org + Blog: http://blog.zynthian.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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From: RDP <gli...@gm...> - 2016-07-01 21:49:18
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Good start José. ;o) Remember though, actions you take in connection with your project, are not relevant here on this list, which is reserved for linux sampler discussion only. In other words you have gone off topic! Maybe a few more off-lists are required, before coming back here? ;o) Regards, Chris. On 28 June 2016 at 17:36, José Fernando Moyano <fer...@zy...> wrote: > Thanks! > > Yes, i have to create the Wikipedia entry. I will try to do it today ... > yep! ;-) > > Best Regards! > > > El 28/06/16 a las 17:51, RDP escribió: >> On 28 June 2016 at 16:31, José Fernando Moyano <fer...@zy...> wrote: >>> Zynthian is not a product. It's an open specification for building a >>> small-sound-computer with a UI well suited for live performing and sound >>> operation. Everybody can download ALL the schemes and specifications. We >>> don't hide nothing. >>> >>> It's an open platform. Hardware and software is Open. We sell the kits >>> to promote the project, and of course, to cover the costs. The profit is >>> negligible. >> Then I humbly suggest, you go get yourself listed.. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_hardware_projects >> >> Regards, >> >> >> Chris. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San >> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries >> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for >> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. >> http://sdm.link/attshape >> _______________________________________________ >> Linuxsampler-devel mailing list >> Lin...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel > -- > José Fernando Moyano Dominguez > + Email: fer...@zy... > + Teléfono: +34 625 642 820 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Zynthian: the Open Synth Platform > + Web: http://zynthian.org > + Blog: http://blog.zynthian.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > _______________________________________________ > Linuxsampler-devel mailing list > Lin...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel > |
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