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From: Andrew C <cou...@gm...> - 2017-05-16 10:17:14
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Not sure if I should post this here or to LAU, but here goes. Finally I've decided to step into the modern age of plugins running in hosts as opposed to having everything standalone and hooking up endless midi channels in qjackctl. I'm kind of having difficulty wrapping my head around how it all works, so I'll try and simplify my question to a one-liner: Can I assign multiple midi channels to a single linuxsampler plugin instance? Or does DSSI work with one plugin per channel? My host (Rosegarden) has a seemingly hard-coded 24 available slots to put dssi plugins into, so having access to all 16 channels from one plugin instance would be great, but maybe this entirely outside the scope of how dssi works? Andrew. |
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From: Christian S. <sch...@li...> - 2017-05-17 16:11:52
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On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:17:07 Andrew C wrote: > Not sure if I should post this here or to LAU, but here goes. Don't worry, there is not much traffic around here. > Finally I've decided to step into the modern age of plugins running in > hosts as opposed to having everything standalone and hooking up endless > midi channels in qjackctl. > > I'm kind of having difficulty wrapping my head around how it all works, so > I'll try and simplify my question to a one-liner: > > Can I assign multiple midi channels to a single linuxsampler plugin > instance? Or does DSSI work with one plugin per channel? The usual work flow with any plugin standard I know of, is usually one (instrument) plugin instance per DAW track. DSSI is actually the predecessor of LV2. So most people use LV2 or VST on Linux. Does Rosegarden not support LV2? > My host (Rosegarden) has a seemingly hard-coded 24 available slots to put > dssi plugins into, so having access to all 16 channels from one plugin > instance would be great, but maybe this entirely outside the scope of how > dssi works? All plugin standards are sending their MIDI data with a MIDI channel, including DSSI. So after you created your DSSI plugin instances you can adjust your overall setup i.e. with QSampler for your needs. So yes, you can do that. CU Christian |
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From: Andrew C <cou...@gm...> - 2017-05-17 18:53:11
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Rosegarden does not support LV2, sadly. I think it is on the developers' 'to do' list Soon(tm). >The usual work flow with any plugin standard I know of, is usually one >(instrument) plugin instance per DAW track. Yes, I seem to be barking up the wrong tree at the wrong people. AFAICS, LinuxSampler creates a new midi port and instrument for each plugin instance with the midi channel set to (all), as opposed to simply using the same midi port and using the next available channel for the new instrument. I was expecting the latter functionality, but I suspect this is an "issue" with Rosegarden, as opposed to LinuxSampler.* *Not really an issue, but as mentioned, with RG's 24 hardcoded plugin instance limit with no "true"(?) multi-timbral support, it seems that using LS/FluidSynth as standalone instruments is the way to go for multi-channel goodness. This post is rambling a bit... :P On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Christian Schoenebeck < sch...@li...> wrote: > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:17:07 Andrew C wrote: > > Not sure if I should post this here or to LAU, but here goes. > > Don't worry, there is not much traffic around here. > > > Finally I've decided to step into the modern age of plugins running in > > hosts as opposed to having everything standalone and hooking up endless > > midi channels in qjackctl. > > > > I'm kind of having difficulty wrapping my head around how it all works, > so > > I'll try and simplify my question to a one-liner: > > > > Can I assign multiple midi channels to a single linuxsampler plugin > > instance? Or does DSSI work with one plugin per channel? > > The usual work flow with any plugin standard I know of, is usually one > (instrument) plugin instance per DAW track. > > DSSI is actually the predecessor of LV2. So most people use LV2 or VST on > Linux. Does Rosegarden not support LV2? > > > My host (Rosegarden) has a seemingly hard-coded 24 available slots to put > > dssi plugins into, so having access to all 16 channels from one plugin > > instance would be great, but maybe this entirely outside the scope of how > > dssi works? > > All plugin standards are sending their MIDI data with a MIDI channel, > including DSSI. So after you created your DSSI plugin instances you can > adjust > your overall setup i.e. with QSampler for your needs. So yes, you can do > that. > > CU > Christian > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Linuxsampler-devel mailing list > Lin...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel > |
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From: Christian S. <sch...@li...> - 2017-05-17 19:25:46
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On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 19:53:03 Andrew C wrote: > Rosegarden does not support LV2, sadly. I think it is on the developers' > 'to do' list Soon(tm). > > >The usual work flow with any plugin standard I know of, is usually one > >(instrument) plugin instance per DAW track. > > Yes, I seem to be barking up the wrong tree at the wrong people. > AFAICS, LinuxSampler creates a new midi port and instrument for each plugin > instance with the midi channel set to (all), as opposed to simply using the > same midi port and using the next available channel for the new instrument. Yes, because that's the desired (default) behavior for the majority of all DAW plugin users. Like I said, no matter which DAW and plugin standard you are using, nowadays you create a separate DAW track for each sound. Which has the advantage that you don't have to worry about MIDI channels at all, which would be error prone. And in fact, I realized that more and more younger people are not even aware about what a "MIDI channel" is, due to that circumstance. > I was expecting the latter functionality, but I suspect this is an "issue" > with Rosegarden, as opposed to LinuxSampler.* Which is not a problem. What I described is the default behavior for LinuxSampler. When you launch plugin instances, they appear to the sampler as separate MIDI ports. But nobody forces you to use them. For the small minority of users [ you ;-) ] who want a different plugin behavior: Like I said, simply launch your plugin instances, then open QSampler and modify the sampler internal MIDI routing as desired. So you can also hook up several sampler parts (a.k.a. channel strips in QSampler) to one MIDI input port of your plugin instances, and also the other way around, one sampler part (channel strip) to several MIDI input ports. And then select for each sampler part a specific MIDI channel and that's it. Then when you save your song, the entire sampler setup will automatically be stored with your DAW song file and vice versa; the entire sampler setup will automatically be restored when you load your song in your DAW again [ok, at least if Rosegarden supports state saving of plugins]. CU Christian |
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From: Christian S. <sch...@li...> - 2017-05-17 19:46:41
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On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 21:28:09 Christian Schoenebeck wrote: > For the small minority of users [ you ;-) ] who want a different plugin > behavior: Like I said, simply launch your plugin instances, then open > QSampler and modify the sampler internal MIDI routing as desired. So you > can also hook up several sampler parts (a.k.a. channel strips in QSampler) > to one MIDI input port of your plugin instances, and also the other way > around, one sampler part (channel strip) to several MIDI input ports. And > then select for each sampler part a specific MIDI channel and that's it. What I must add here, and maybe that's the missing brick for you to solve that issue: Even when using the plugin version of the sampler you can still add as many sampler parts (channel strips) as you want on their own i.e. with QSampler. So you don't need to add a new plugin instance just to add a new sampler part. Does this make it more clear? CU Christian |
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From: Andrew C <cou...@gm...> - 2017-05-17 20:30:16
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Thank you so much for the indepth response, Christian! I was a bit slow on the uptake of the design workflow here with plugins... Did some more RTFMing and googling to make sense of it. >What I must add here, and maybe that's the missing brick for you to solve that >issue: Even when using the plugin version of the sampler you can still add as >many sampler parts (channel strips) as you want on their own i.e. with >QSampler. So you don't need to add a new plugin instance just to add a new >sampler part. Yes, this makes it crystal clear. So if I have one midi input port for the linuxsampler instance, I can, using qsampler, simply add extra channel strips and create 'layered' sounds for that particular port. Midi Port 0: Violins, Cellos, Violas, Basses sustain patches loaded up (In Linuxsampler) -> Linuxsampler.so instance #1(in Rosegarden) - > "Full Strings" sequencer track Midi Port 1: Maestro Grand v2 patch loaded up (In Linuxsampler) -> Linuxsampler.so instance #2(in Rosegarden) - > "Piano" sequencer track ... and so on? After that, I'm just limited by the number of plugins my sequencer can let me load and don't even need to care about what midi channel goes where? On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:49 PM, Christian Schoenebeck < sch...@li...> wrote: > On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 21:28:09 Christian Schoenebeck wrote: > > For the small minority of users [ you ;-) ] who want a different plugin > > behavior: Like I said, simply launch your plugin instances, then open > > QSampler and modify the sampler internal MIDI routing as desired. So you > > can also hook up several sampler parts (a.k.a. channel strips in > QSampler) > > to one MIDI input port of your plugin instances, and also the other way > > around, one sampler part (channel strip) to several MIDI input ports. And > > then select for each sampler part a specific MIDI channel and that's it. > > What I must add here, and maybe that's the missing brick for you to solve > that > issue: Even when using the plugin version of the sampler you can still add > as > many sampler parts (channel strips) as you want on their own i.e. with > QSampler. So you don't need to add a new plugin instance just to add a new > sampler part. > > Does this make it more clear? > > CU > Christian > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Linuxsampler-devel mailing list > Lin...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel > |
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From: Christian S. <sch...@li...> - 2017-05-17 20:50:44
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On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 21:30:09 Andrew C wrote: > So if I have one midi input port for the linuxsampler instance, I can, > using qsampler, simply add extra channel strips and create 'layered' sounds > for that particular port. > > Midi Port 0: Violins, Cellos, Violas, Basses sustain patches loaded up (In > Linuxsampler) -> Linuxsampler.so instance #1(in Rosegarden) - > "Full > Strings" sequencer track > > Midi Port 1: Maestro Grand v2 patch loaded up (In Linuxsampler) -> > Linuxsampler.so instance #2(in Rosegarden) - > "Piano" sequencer track > > ... and so on? Correct. > After that, I'm just limited by the number of plugins my sequencer can let > me load and don't even need to care about what midi channel goes where? Well, for the "layered sounds" scenario you don't need to care about MIDI channels. Just make sure the manually created sampler parts (i.e. the ones added with QSampler) are set to listen to "all" MIDI channels. For the 2nd scenario with only one sound (piano) you don't have to take care about MIDI channels either. But since your problem is the limited amount of tracks in Rosegarden, I guess you might also have a different scenario one day where you have a Rosegarden track which contains MIDI data for multiple different target sounds, so that track would have MIDI data for multiple different MIDI channels. And in that particular scenario you would of course need to take care about the MIDI channel setup inside the sampler. CU Christian |
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From: Luis G. <lui...@us...> - 2017-05-18 09:20:55
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On 17/05/17 20:53, Andrew C wrote: >>The usual work flow with any plugin standard I know of, is usually one >>(instrument) plugin instance per DAW track. You might want to give a try to ls16, an alternate DSSI LinuxSampler adapter. Perhaps it will suit your workflow better: https://sourceforge.net/p/ls16/wiki/Home/ However, there is no workaround for Rosegarden's omni MIDI routing model. Perhaps have a look at QTractor or MusE? Regards, L |
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From: Andrew C <cou...@gm...> - 2017-05-18 19:10:20
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Thanks for the heads up guys! Rosegarden's omni midi routing for dssi was one of my biggest issues with it. :P Tried Muse and it gets two points in favour of switching: one being the same name as one of my favourite bands and the other that it can do "multi-channel" for one instance. Neat stuff and I'm sold on Muse now. -- On a LinuxSampler-related note, I need some advice WRT Jsampler and stability. If I open JSampler after playing a bunch of notes, or at the same time as I'm playing notes, Linuxsampler crashes after JSampler opens up or LS crashes with the JSampler box displaying 'Applying global voice limits' or some such. LSCPServer: Client connection terminated on socket:9. LSCPServer: Client connection terminated on socket:4. LSCPServer: Client connection established on socket:4. LSCPServer: Client connection established on socket:9. Pool::resizePool() ERROR: elements still in use! Segmentation fault (core dumped) This happens to LS both standalone and running as a DSSI inside of RG/Muse. Andrew. On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Luis Garrido < lui...@us...> wrote: > On 17/05/17 20:53, Andrew C wrote: > > >>The usual work flow with any plugin standard I know of, is usually one > >>(instrument) plugin instance per DAW track. > > You might want to give a try to ls16, an alternate DSSI LinuxSampler > adapter. Perhaps it will suit your workflow better: > > https://sourceforge.net/p/ls16/wiki/Home/ > > However, there is no workaround for Rosegarden's omni MIDI routing > model. Perhaps have a look at QTractor or MusE? > > > Regards, > > L > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Linuxsampler-devel mailing list > Lin...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxsampler-devel > |
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