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From: Tom H. <th...@ks...> - 2001-05-26 16:10:06
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Neil Cherry wrote: > > Anyone want to comment on what they think is a good web interface. Normally > I don't like web interface because they're just links and a form box. Which tends to look bad because you have to serve up a whole new page for each transaction. (It's also slow, but on a LAN it might be fast enough. Also, the widget set is lame, but you can partly cover that up with images, greatly increasing the amount of work to implement.) One thing you might experiment with is frames. They're generally (and rightly) deprecated, but the one big advantage that they offer is that you only have to update one frame at a time, which usually kills off the flicker you get from reloading the entire page. Also cuts down on the data going both ways. But the big problem with using frames is knowing the window size. You might try getting around this by forking a new window with a known size, then dicing that up with borderless frames. You may want several canned window sizes to work with, e.g., one for a normal landscape monitor computer, one for a wireless PDA, maybe yet another for flat panels. > This > one isn't much better except that I use PHP to update the table dynamically > so we think we know the state of the device (it's X10 'ya know'). I like PHP for this type of thing. One real advantage that modPerl has is the DBI abstraction. PHP uses specific coding for each database, so supporting multiple databases would complicate the PHP code more than it would complicate Perl. > I'll > further expand the PHP/JavaScript/HTML code further to include the weather > station, Ocelot, and the HCS II. All of this is going into the contest > for Aug. Though I don't think I can win I will attempt to put on a good > show. I think the work can become an article for one of the magazines. > > -- > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... -- /* * Tom Hull * thull at kscable.com * http://www.ocston.org/~thull/ */ |
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From: John <jk...@pr...> - 2001-05-26 14:38:43
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On Sat, 26 May 2001, Mike Baptiste wrote: > I've been a Perl fanatic/programmer for a LONG time an normally would > agree to go with Perl. However PHP is an excellent langauge for web > based interfaces to data of all kinds - it has all sorts of cool > features including automatic session tracking, etc. I've been a PHP proponent for about a year. It will handle 99% of what I need CGI scripts to do. This is important because my webhoster (like many out there) offers PHP by default, albeit somewhat castrated. Mine also allows CGI's but requires them to be reviewed prior to release. PHP is the path of least resistance. > The propblem is, > PHP is not installed by default like perl is, but there are generally > binary packages available for easy install. On many Linux distributions PHP is just one additional package install. Due to the relaxed US crypto policy, mod_ssl is also 'just one additional package install'. > As for cross platform - > well, just because a language is cross platform, doesn't mean your app > will be :) It still will need to be ported. PHP works on Unix, Win32 and MacOS. Beyond that, well, I suspect you know what you're doing and can perform the port yourself :) > So use what works best for you. Perl is an awesome language and the > wealth of CPAN modules available is staggering, but PHP also has strong > points - especially from web interface perspective. Yes there are certain tasks that PHP is not suited for and its base install is far too thin for my taste. Unfortunately the Linux distributions seem to be heading towards only aggregating Base+MySQL. > Now regarding Java and Javascript - avoid them like the plague ... I agree with avoiding Java, but you can be fairly sure that most people will be running with Javascript on, otherwise most sites on the 'Net will either refuse to work or will work badly. The Javascript in the popular browsers are fairly close to one another, one just needs to detect and handle the special cases. NS4.x is the worst of the bunch but still (marginally) useable. When developing a web based interface you must realize that it is COMMAND-RESPONSE only. One of the tricks I use is to set up an invisible frame or layer that is set up to poll (via refresh) a CGI that emits UI events (alerts, state changes, etc.) and from that frame/layer update the visible components. The other pitfall is that due to the multi-process nature of Apache, you can never be sure which daemon will handle your request. Therefore, if your backend depends on a stateful connection (eg. IMAP) the CGI needs to be a thin layer that communicates with a persistant pseudo-client. If you still wish to go the Java route, look at my tattler applet. That allows a separate daemon on the webserver (only) to send short messages to your browser without the browser needing to poll. http://www.projectplasma.com/tattler/ |
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From: Mike B. <mi...@ba...> - 2001-05-26 12:23:40
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I've been a Perl fanatic/programmer for a LONG time an normally would agree to go with Perl. However PHP is an excellent langauge for web based interfaces to data of all kinds - it has all sorts of cool features including automatic session tracking, etc. The propblem is, PHP is not installed by default like perl is, but there are generally binary packages available for easy install. As for cross platform - well, just because a language is cross platform, doesn't mean your app will be :) It still will need to be ported. So use what works best for you. Perl is an awesome language and the wealth of CPAN modules available is staggering, but PHP also has strong points - especially from web interface perspective. Now regarding Java and Javascript - avoid them like the plague - every browser implements Javascript slightly differently so you spend way too much time checking for browser type to do things differently. Java is more standard, but again, some browsers support it better than others. So if you make them a requirement, you'll find many users with browsers that don't function properly for a variety of reasons. Thank Microsoft, Netscape, and Sun - as they tweaked their 'standard' the others wouldn't adopt it, but the site builders would. Now web developers pull their hair out trying to make sites cross browser compatible. Its a nightmare. If you use COMMON functions and commands in JS you should be OK, but you always have to duplicate your code in <NOSCRIPT> tags for browsers that don't support Javascript OR for users who turn Javascript off (there are many of those) In thinking about my own web interface, I seriously considered using Java since you could dynamically update it and such, but I finally decided that to START with, it would be auto refreshed web pages. Then I'll add an OPTION for a 'Java Enabled' interface which will replace and/or supplement some screens with Java applets. Thus the user has the choice. You'll find many web interfaces to backend systems do this. Just some thoughts. Mike (Yes, I'm still alive - but the past 6 months have been an adventure - more on that soon....) Neil Cherry wrote: > "C. R. Bryan III" wrote: > > >>I wrote: >> >>>Since it's been raining and slowed my training down a bit (I've got a >>>100 mile ride, tomorrow, in the rain and "boomers") I've spent a little >>>time working on a web interface to HA. This initial version uses Apache, >>>PHP, HTML, JavaScript (very little but I'm working on that) and >>>HomeDaemon-dump. I haven't started working on the security or user >>>verification yet but I will (I have examples and need to think it >>>through further). I may post the code to be played with in the next week >>>(I need the instructions). >>> >>>Anyone want to comment on what they think is a good web interface. Normally >>>I don't like web interface because they're just links and a form box. This >>>one isn't much better except that I use PHP to update the table dynamically >>>so we think we know the state of the device (it's X10 'ya know'). I'll >>>further expand the PHP/JavaScript/HTML code further to include the weather >>>station, Ocelot, and the HCS II. All of this is going into the contest >>>for Aug. Though I don't think I can win I will attempt to put on a good >>>show. I think the work can become an article for one of the magazines. >>> >>I suggest Perl for the initial effort rather than PHP. >>Perl's cross-platform. That includes Perl/Tk, which is potentially >>the same widget-set design expressed on the local desktop rather than >>in a browser, talking through sockets if the command hardware's >>running on a different machine. Perl's module set will probably allow >>you to extend down further into daemon-land for rapid prototyping. >>Perl/db supports source-level stepping of your code. Setting the -w >>switch causes Perl to dump its complaints into your Apache error-log >>when it's talking through the CGI, so you don't have to scoop them >>off a rapidly moving screen or peek into commented-out sprintfs in >>'view page source' to catch anything. >> > > I had a little time to think about this last night and I have a question. > Does the Apache Perl module support Perl/TK? The code I've written is an > HTML page w/PHP & JavaScript. The reason is so that part of the Client > does some of the work and the web site uses a fresh reference. I may > switch the JavaScript to Java if I'm not able to get the client to > behave the way I want it to. For now this is just the web page interface. > I have worked on client software for non web interfaces. That code is > portable between Windows and Linux (I haven't tested it else where yet). > > |
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From: Neil C. <nc...@ho...> - 2001-05-26 11:43:22
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"C. R. Bryan III" wrote: > I wrote: > > Since it's been raining and slowed my training down a bit (I've got a > > 100 mile ride, tomorrow, in the rain and "boomers") I've spent a little > > time working on a web interface to HA. This initial version uses Apache, > > PHP, HTML, JavaScript (very little but I'm working on that) and > > HomeDaemon-dump. I haven't started working on the security or user > > verification yet but I will (I have examples and need to think it > > through further). I may post the code to be played with in the next week > > (I need the instructions). > > > > Anyone want to comment on what they think is a good web interface. Normally > > I don't like web interface because they're just links and a form box. This > > one isn't much better except that I use PHP to update the table dynamically > > so we think we know the state of the device (it's X10 'ya know'). I'll > > further expand the PHP/JavaScript/HTML code further to include the weather > > station, Ocelot, and the HCS II. All of this is going into the contest > > for Aug. Though I don't think I can win I will attempt to put on a good > > show. I think the work can become an article for one of the magazines. > > I suggest Perl for the initial effort rather than PHP. > Perl's cross-platform. That includes Perl/Tk, which is potentially > the same widget-set design expressed on the local desktop rather than > in a browser, talking through sockets if the command hardware's > running on a different machine. Perl's module set will probably allow > you to extend down further into daemon-land for rapid prototyping. > Perl/db supports source-level stepping of your code. Setting the -w > switch causes Perl to dump its complaints into your Apache error-log > when it's talking through the CGI, so you don't have to scoop them > off a rapidly moving screen or peek into commented-out sprintfs in > 'view page source' to catch anything. I had a little time to think about this last night and I have a question. Does the Apache Perl module support Perl/TK? The code I've written is an HTML page w/PHP & JavaScript. The reason is so that part of the Client does some of the work and the web site uses a fresh reference. I may switch the JavaScript to Java if I'm not able to get the client to behave the way I want it to. For now this is just the web page interface. I have worked on client software for non web interfaces. That code is portable between Windows and Linux (I haven't tested it else where yet). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) |
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From: Neil C. <nc...@ho...> - 2001-05-26 01:19:32
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"C. R. Bryan III" wrote: > > From: Neil Cherry <nc...@ho...> > Organization: Linux Home Automation > To: LHA-misc <Lin...@li...> > Subject: [LHA-misc] Web interface ... > Send reply to: lin...@li... > <mailto:lin...@li...?subject=subscribe> > <mailto:lin...@li...?subject=unsubscribe> > Date sent: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:30:23 -0400 > > > Since it's been raining and slowed my training down a bit (I've got a > > 100 mile ride, tomorrow, in the rain and "boomers") I've spent a little > > time working on a web interface to HA. This initial version uses Apache, > > PHP, HTML, JavaScript (very little but I'm working on that) and > > HomeDaemon-dump. I haven't started working on the security or user > > verification yet but I will (I have examples and need to think it > > through further). I may post the code to be played with in the next week > > (I need the instructions). > > > > Anyone want to comment on what they think is a good web interface. Normally > > I don't like web interface because they're just links and a form box. This > > one isn't much better except that I use PHP to update the table dynamically > > so we think we know the state of the device (it's X10 'ya know'). I'll > > further expand the PHP/JavaScript/HTML code further to include the weather > > station, Ocelot, and the HCS II. All of this is going into the contest > > for Aug. Though I don't think I can win I will attempt to put on a good > > show. I think the work can become an article for one of the magazines. > > I suggest Perl for the initial effort rather than PHP. > Perl's cross-platform. That includes Perl/Tk, which is potentially > the same widget-set design expressed on the local desktop rather than > in a browser, talking through sockets if the command hardware's > running on a different machine. Perl's module set will probably allow > you to extend down further into daemon-land for rapid prototyping. > Perl/db supports source-level stepping of your code. Setting the -w > switch causes Perl to dump its complaints into your Apache error-log > when it's talking through the CGI, so you don't have to scoop them > off a rapidly moving screen or peek into commented-out sprintfs in > 'view page source' to catch anything. I currently don't know where to begin with Perl. I can program in Perl but I am not a Perl programmer. Any pointers or examples of similar code? -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) |
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From: C. R. B. I. <cr...@ea...> - 2001-05-26 01:15:23
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From: Neil Cherry <nc...@ho...> Organization: Linux Home Automation To: LHA-misc <Lin...@li...> Subject: [LHA-misc] Web interface ... Send reply to: lin...@li... <mailto:lin...@li...?subject=subscribe> <mailto:lin...@li...?subject=unsubscribe> Date sent: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:30:23 -0400 > Since it's been raining and slowed my training down a bit (I've got a > 100 mile ride, tomorrow, in the rain and "boomers") I've spent a little > time working on a web interface to HA. This initial version uses Apache, > PHP, HTML, JavaScript (very little but I'm working on that) and > HomeDaemon-dump. I haven't started working on the security or user > verification yet but I will (I have examples and need to think it > through further). I may post the code to be played with in the next week > (I need the instructions). > > Anyone want to comment on what they think is a good web interface. Normally > I don't like web interface because they're just links and a form box. This > one isn't much better except that I use PHP to update the table dynamically > so we think we know the state of the device (it's X10 'ya know'). I'll > further expand the PHP/JavaScript/HTML code further to include the weather > station, Ocelot, and the HCS II. All of this is going into the contest > for Aug. Though I don't think I can win I will attempt to put on a good > show. I think the work can become an article for one of the magazines. I suggest Perl for the initial effort rather than PHP. Perl's cross-platform. That includes Perl/Tk, which is potentially the same widget-set design expressed on the local desktop rather than in a browser, talking through sockets if the command hardware's running on a different machine. Perl's module set will probably allow you to extend down further into daemon-land for rapid prototyping. Perl/db supports source-level stepping of your code. Setting the -w switch causes Perl to dump its complaints into your Apache error-log when it's talking through the CGI, so you don't have to scoop them off a rapidly moving screen or peek into commented-out sprintfs in 'view page source' to catch anything. Perl is close enough to C in syntax and expression to make it relatively easy to push the design down into compiled C once it's firm. > -- > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... > http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) > http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) > http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxha-misc > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe Linuxha-misc" > in the body of a message to Lin...@li... |
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From: Neil C. <nc...@ho...> - 2001-05-26 00:24:33
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Since it's been raining and slowed my training down a bit (I've got a 100 mile ride, tomorrow, in the rain and "boomers") I've spent a little time working on a web interface to HA. This initial version uses Apache, PHP, HTML, JavaScript (very little but I'm working on that) and HomeDaemon-dump. I haven't started working on the security or user verification yet but I will (I have examples and need to think it through further). I may post the code to be played with in the next week (I need the instructions). Anyone want to comment on what they think is a good web interface. Normally I don't like web interface because they're just links and a form box. This one isn't much better except that I use PHP to update the table dynamically so we think we know the state of the device (it's X10 'ya know'). I'll further expand the PHP/JavaScript/HTML code further to include the weather station, Ocelot, and the HCS II. All of this is going into the contest for Aug. Though I don't think I can win I will attempt to put on a good show. I think the work can become an article for one of the magazines. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) |
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From: Jonas D. <jon...@ax...> - 2001-04-25 12:27:18
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> the Gigaset. I may be way off base here, but I don't beleive > Bluetooth actually specifies a > particular frequency range - I thought it was just a software spec. Bluetooth uses 79 channels in the 2.400-2.4835 GHz range with 1 MHz channel spacing. It uses GFSK with a symbol rate of 1 Ms/s. The possible problems with 802.11 is that BT uses frequency hopping with 1600 hops/s thus giving higher probability that BT frames will interfere with 802.11 frames than the other way around. ref: http://www.bluetooth.com/developer/specification/core.asp http://www.bluetooth.com/link/spec11/core/Bluetooth_11_PartA_Radio.pdf /Jonas |
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From: Clay J. <cl...@nw...> - 2001-04-23 17:25:04
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Well, I'll agree they're not 'commerical' quality, or even close - but, for what I need I think the XCams will work fine. With the hardwired setup, they seem to be OK for general purpose WebCams. Clay Brian Karas wrote: > At 10:08 PM 4/22/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >At a hamfest a few weeks ago, I got a great deal on 4 X10 'XCams', along > >with the receiver and other goodies. > > This is where you went wrong. There is no such thing as a "great deal" on > XCams. They have poor video resolution, poor low light performance, and > their interference degrades severely if you even wave another 2.4Ghz device > near them. > > >Thought this might be interesting for other folks who are starting to dabble > >in wireless stuff around the home - turns out that the same frequencies are > >being used (or proposed) for all SORTS of 'consumer' gadgets. And, of > >course, the manufacturers are taking a 'caveat emptor' approach the the > >whole problem.... > > If the device is using spread spectrum technology, there's only so much the > manufacturer can do as far as frequency allocations. > > I will say that I haven't had this problem with better-quality stuff. I've > got a Gigaset system at home, plug an 802.11b RF LAN, and I've also run > HomeRF from time to time for testing purposes. I get no interference, even > when the microwave is running. > > Brian Karas - Future Standard Systems, Inc. > http://www.futurestandard.com > br...@fu... > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxha-misc > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe Linuxha-misc" > in the body of a message to Lin...@li... |
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From: Clay J. <cl...@nw...> - 2001-04-23 16:09:49
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I'd be surprised if there weren't at least SOME 'issues' with ANYTHING in= the 2.4GHz range and the Gigaset. I may be way off base here, but I don't beleive Bluetooth a= ctually specifies a particular frequency range - I thought it was just a software spec. Clay =C5ke Hedman wrote: > Do you think this will be a problem with bluetooth as well as it is als= o in the 2.4GHz band? > > /Ake > > =C5ke Hedman, YAP (Yet Another Programmer) http://www.brattberg.com/ake > ak...@us... <mailto:ak...@us...> > CC Systems AB, Box 83, 822 22 ALFTA, Sweden > Phone: +46 271 19380, Fax: +46 271 19389 > Direct: +46 271 19209, Celluar: +46 70 2314980 > Projects: http://eda.sourceforge.net http://mumin.sourceforge.net > Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero > > > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Fr=E5n: lin...@li... > [mailto:lin...@li...]F=F6r Clay Jackson > Skickat: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:08 AM > Till: lin...@li... > =C4mne: [LHA-misc] RFI/EMI with Home Automation devices > > Being an Amateur Radio Operator ('Ham'), I think I'm probably a bit mor= e 'in > tune' (intended pun, there) with potential RF interference (aka RFI, or= EMI) > than most; and, my radio shack (also server room, telecom switch room a= nd > home office) is definitely a 'high RF' environment. But, I still got '= bit', > and since it involved Home Automation, I thought I share my experiences= so > someone else doesn't have to learn quite as much as I did... > > I've got a Siemens "Gigaset" phone system, which consists of a base uni= t and > 4 remotes which are cordless. The system uses Spread Spectrum Technolo= gy > (meaning it's transmit/receive frequencies CHANGE) in the 2.4 Ghz range. > The base unit is hung on the wall behind my monitor (until I get around= to > moving my ISDN TA, which feeds the phone lines into the GigaSet - at wh= ich > point the base unit will move to a phone panel in the garage). > > At a hamfest a few weeks ago, I got a great deal on 4 X10 'XCams', alon= g > with the receiver and other goodies. I started setting up the XCams th= is > weekend and discovered that if the camera was more than 2' from the > receiver, I got LOUSY reception, or none at all. After sratching my he= ad > for a while, I unplugged the Gigaset (thereby interrupting all of our p= hone > service execpt our backup 'POTS' - my wife sometimes hates my gadgets),= and > presto, the XCams started working just fine. Turns out the Gigaset and= the > XCams share the same frequency allocation - and the Siemens people want= to > 'own' the whole band (interestingly enough, there was NEVER any interfe= rence > TO the Gigaset phones FROM the Cameras, just the other way 'round. > > So, I plugged the Gigaset back in and opened up the X10 receiver. I > discovered that it had an F type connector (ala cable TV) on the back, = for > channel 3/4 out. I clipped the lead from the oscillator to the connect= or, > and connected the (input) antenna lead to the F connector. Then, I too= k a > piece of coax cable (RG6, for the purists out there), stipped the inner > conductor, and wrapped it around the antenna of a camera about 50' from= the > receiver. Presto - hard wired video! > > Tonite, I'm gonna open up one of the cameras and see if I can figure ou= t how > to more permanently mount a cable - also, there's a thinner 75 ohm cabl= e out > there that I'm gonna try as well. I figure that since only one camera= is > powered at a time, a regular cable TV splitter will probably work OK fo= r > feeding signals from multiple cameras into one receiver. > > I'll keep the list posted on my results - and, as soon as I get a web s= erver > up, I'll put pictures of the whole mess up as well. > > Thought this might be interesting for other folks who are starting to d= abble > in wireless stuff around the home - turns out that the same frequencies= are > being used (or proposed) for all SORTS of 'consumer' gadgets. And, of > course, the manufacturers are taking a 'caveat emptor' approach the the > whole problem.... > > Clay Jackson > N7QNM > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxha-misc > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe Linuxha-misc" > in the body of a message to Lin...@li... > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxha-misc > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe Linuxha-misc" > in the body of a message to Lin...@li... |
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From: Mike B. <bap...@cc...> - 2001-04-23 13:20:02
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Clay Jackson wrote: > > Turns out the Gigaset and the > XCams share the same frequency allocation - and the Siemens people want to > 'own' the whole band (interestingly enough, there was NEVER any interference > TO the Gigaset phones FROM the Cameras, just the other way 'round. Well, the problem is the XCams. Phones, 802.11 LANs, etc use frequency hopping technology to avoid interference. 802.11 LANs can be set to 1 of 11 frequencies in the 2.4GHz band. Cordless phones usually jump around too. I have an XCam and can't use it. No matter what frequency I set my 802.11 LAN to, the XCam receiver still receives interference and I've tried all 3 XCam channels. THe problem to me is the XCams are sloppy and hog more of the spectrum, thus any channels cause interference. And yes, Bluetooth will also be impacted - Even worse - Bluetooth and 802.11 LANs hate each other. Bluetooth picanets can drag an 802.11 network to its knees. The proposed solution is new hardware for access points with processor that know about both technologies and maks them play nice. But I believe you'll find your XCam is not gonna be very useful if you have other 2.4GHz devices around. Mike |
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From: Brian K. <br...@fu...> - 2001-04-23 12:04:20
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At 10:08 PM 4/22/2001 -0700, you wrote: >At a hamfest a few weeks ago, I got a great deal on 4 X10 'XCams', along >with the receiver and other goodies. This is where you went wrong. There is no such thing as a "great deal" on XCams. They have poor video resolution, poor low light performance, and their interference degrades severely if you even wave another 2.4Ghz device near them. >Thought this might be interesting for other folks who are starting to dabble >in wireless stuff around the home - turns out that the same frequencies are >being used (or proposed) for all SORTS of 'consumer' gadgets. And, of >course, the manufacturers are taking a 'caveat emptor' approach the the >whole problem.... If the device is using spread spectrum technology, there's only so much the manufacturer can do as far as frequency allocations. I will say that I haven't had this problem with better-quality stuff. I've got a Gigaset system at home, plug an 802.11b RF LAN, and I've also run HomeRF from time to time for testing purposes. I get no interference, even when the microwave is running. Brian Karas - Future Standard Systems, Inc. http://www.futurestandard.com br...@fu... |
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From: <ak...@us...> - 2001-04-23 07:12:45
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Do you think this will be a problem with bluetooth as well as it is also = in the 2.4GHz band? /Ake =C5ke Hedman, YAP (Yet Another Programmer) http://www.brattberg.com/ake ak...@us... <mailto:ak...@us...> =20 CC Systems AB, Box 83, 822 22 ALFTA, Sweden Phone: +46 271 19380, Fax: +46 271 19389 Direct: +46 271 19209, Celluar: +46 70 2314980 Projects: http://eda.sourceforge.net http://mumin.sourceforge.net Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero=20 =20 -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr=E5n: lin...@li... [mailto:lin...@li...]F=F6r Clay Jackson Skickat: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:08 AM Till: lin...@li... =C4mne: [LHA-misc] RFI/EMI with Home Automation devices Being an Amateur Radio Operator ('Ham'), I think I'm probably a bit more = 'in tune' (intended pun, there) with potential RF interference (aka RFI, or = EMI) than most; and, my radio shack (also server room, telecom switch room = and home office) is definitely a 'high RF' environment. But, I still got = 'bit', and since it involved Home Automation, I thought I share my experiences = so someone else doesn't have to learn quite as much as I did... I've got a Siemens "Gigaset" phone system, which consists of a base unit = and 4 remotes which are cordless. The system uses Spread Spectrum = Technology (meaning it's transmit/receive frequencies CHANGE) in the 2.4 Ghz range. The base unit is hung on the wall behind my monitor (until I get around = to moving my ISDN TA, which feeds the phone lines into the GigaSet - at = which point the base unit will move to a phone panel in the garage). At a hamfest a few weeks ago, I got a great deal on 4 X10 'XCams', along with the receiver and other goodies. I started setting up the XCams = this weekend and discovered that if the camera was more than 2' from the receiver, I got LOUSY reception, or none at all. After sratching my = head for a while, I unplugged the Gigaset (thereby interrupting all of our = phone service execpt our backup 'POTS' - my wife sometimes hates my gadgets), = and presto, the XCams started working just fine. Turns out the Gigaset and = the XCams share the same frequency allocation - and the Siemens people want = to 'own' the whole band (interestingly enough, there was NEVER any = interference TO the Gigaset phones FROM the Cameras, just the other way 'round. So, I plugged the Gigaset back in and opened up the X10 receiver. I discovered that it had an F type connector (ala cable TV) on the back, = for channel 3/4 out. I clipped the lead from the oscillator to the = connector, and connected the (input) antenna lead to the F connector. Then, I took = a piece of coax cable (RG6, for the purists out there), stipped the inner conductor, and wrapped it around the antenna of a camera about 50' from = the receiver. Presto - hard wired video! Tonite, I'm gonna open up one of the cameras and see if I can figure out = how to more permanently mount a cable - also, there's a thinner 75 ohm cable = out there that I'm gonna try as well. I figure that since only one camera = is powered at a time, a regular cable TV splitter will probably work OK for feeding signals from multiple cameras into one receiver. I'll keep the list posted on my results - and, as soon as I get a web = server up, I'll put pictures of the whole mess up as well. Thought this might be interesting for other folks who are starting to = dabble in wireless stuff around the home - turns out that the same frequencies = are being used (or proposed) for all SORTS of 'consumer' gadgets. And, of course, the manufacturers are taking a 'caveat emptor' approach the the whole problem.... Clay Jackson N7QNM _______________________________________________ http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxha-misc To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe Linuxha-misc" in the body of a message to Lin...@li... |
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From: Clay J. <cl...@nw...> - 2001-04-23 05:10:17
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Being an Amateur Radio Operator ('Ham'), I think I'm probably a bit more 'in
tune' (intended pun, there) with potential RF interference (aka RFI, or EMI)
than most; and, my radio shack (also server room, telecom switch room and
home office) is definitely a 'high RF' environment. But, I still got 'bit',
and since it involved Home Automation, I thought I share my experiences so
someone else doesn't have to learn quite as much as I did...
I've got a Siemens "Gigaset" phone system, which consists of a base unit and
4 remotes which are cordless. The system uses Spread Spectrum Technology
(meaning it's transmit/receive frequencies CHANGE) in the 2.4 Ghz range.
The base unit is hung on the wall behind my monitor (until I get around to
moving my ISDN TA, which feeds the phone lines into the GigaSet - at which
point the base unit will move to a phone panel in the garage).
At a hamfest a few weeks ago, I got a great deal on 4 X10 'XCams', along
with the receiver and other goodies. I started setting up the XCams this
weekend and discovered that if the camera was more than 2' from the
receiver, I got LOUSY reception, or none at all. After sratching my head
for a while, I unplugged the Gigaset (thereby interrupting all of our phone
service execpt our backup 'POTS' - my wife sometimes hates my gadgets), and
presto, the XCams started working just fine. Turns out the Gigaset and the
XCams share the same frequency allocation - and the Siemens people want to
'own' the whole band (interestingly enough, there was NEVER any interference
TO the Gigaset phones FROM the Cameras, just the other way 'round.
So, I plugged the Gigaset back in and opened up the X10 receiver. I
discovered that it had an F type connector (ala cable TV) on the back, for
channel 3/4 out. I clipped the lead from the oscillator to the connector,
and connected the (input) antenna lead to the F connector. Then, I took a
piece of coax cable (RG6, for the purists out there), stipped the inner
conductor, and wrapped it around the antenna of a camera about 50' from the
receiver. Presto - hard wired video!
Tonite, I'm gonna open up one of the cameras and see if I can figure out how
to more permanently mount a cable - also, there's a thinner 75 ohm cable out
there that I'm gonna try as well. I figure that since only one camera is
powered at a time, a regular cable TV splitter will probably work OK for
feeding signals from multiple cameras into one receiver.
I'll keep the list posted on my results - and, as soon as I get a web server
up, I'll put pictures of the whole mess up as well.
Thought this might be interesting for other folks who are starting to dabble
in wireless stuff around the home - turns out that the same frequencies are
being used (or proposed) for all SORTS of 'consumer' gadgets. And, of
course, the manufacturers are taking a 'caveat emptor' approach the the
whole problem....
Clay Jackson
N7QNM
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From: Neil C. <nc...@ho...> - 2001-04-17 15:09:31
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I'm sorry I haven't been very active with the list or any of my projects. I'm in training for a double century ride in mid June (209 miles in one day). After that I'll probably "veg-out" for a little while. I will be working on the LHA contest entry and I'm not giving up on HA. I just need a lot of time off as I get other things done. Thanks for all you patience. PS for those that have sent mail and I forgot to respond, oops sorry. I'll get back to you later. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) |
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From: Raffael S. <raf...@st...> - 2001-03-24 12:07:08
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On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:32:15PM +0100, Sascha Ziemann wrote: > As far as I know the EIB uses always an additional bus. Are there any > devices available, which are working like X10 over the normal power > lines? Busch-Jaeger has such an implementation. They call it EIB Powerline (or EIB-PL). The EIB protocol itself does not specify a physical transmission medium. There are also Ethernet (EIB.net) and radio frequency (EIB.RF) versions available. The canonical way, however, is the twisted pair implementation (EIB.TP), which is also used by our driver. (The "tp" in "tpuart" stands for twisted pair.) I don't know if there are any drivers for Powerline systems available for Linux. Ciao, Raffael p.s.: The powerline version is said to be very instable, i. e. you can't switch your light on if you have your vacuum cleaner running. -- Siehe! Ich bin meiner Weisheit überdrüssig, wie die Biene, die des Honigs zu viel gesammelt hat, ich bedarf der Hände, die sich ausstrecken. -- Friedrich Nietzsche, "Also sprach Zarathustra" |
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From: Sascha Z. <sz...@ai...> - 2001-03-24 11:35:10
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Raffael Stocker <raf...@st...> writes: | We developed a linux driver for the EIB (European/Electrical/ | Enhanced Installation Bus). The EIB is a standard bus for=20 | home and building automation systems. Its development=20 | originated in Germany, so it's a bit unknown outside of=20 | Europe, I guess. |=20 | You can get the driver (GPL'ed) at:=20 | http://os-projects.fh-deggendorf.de/eib/tpuart.html As far as I know the EIB uses always an additional bus. Are there any devices available, which are working like X10 over the normal power lines? bis sp=E4ter... Sascha --=20 Ein Hoch auf den 7. Juni 2000 |
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From: Raffael S. <raf...@st...> - 2001-03-23 16:48:58
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Hi! Just in case someone is interested in this: We developed a linux driver for the EIB (European/Electrical/ Enhanced Installation Bus). The EIB is a standard bus for home and building automation systems. Its development originated in Germany, so it's a bit unknown outside of Europe, I guess. You can get the driver (GPL'ed) at: http://os-projects.fh-deggendorf.de/eib/tpuart.html Ciao, Raffael -- Siehe! Ich bin meiner Weisheit überdrüssig, wie die Biene, die des Honigs zu viel gesammelt hat, ich bedarf der Hände, die sich ausstrecken. -- Friedrich Nietzsche, "Also sprach Zarathustra" |
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From: Sascha Z. <sz...@ai...> - 2001-03-23 07:45:34
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Hi, are here any german X-10 users? I have problems to get any X-10 devices in Germany. Perhaps someone can give me some tips? bis sp=E4ter... Sascha --=20 Ein Hoch auf den 7. Juni 2000 |
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From: Daniel <ea...@li...> - 2001-02-27 01:19:36
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Greetings, all. I know this is a Linux HA group and not a general X10 group, but I'm having trouble finding beginner's info on X10. Finally today I ordered an ActiveHome starter kit (the free Hawkeye deal sounded kinda cool). :) Well, I have some questions on the CM11a and its two-way functionality. Mostly I am interested in learning how two-way X10 works and how you do it with a CM11a. Unfortunately I haven't found that info online. Perhaps I just haven't searched everywhere yet, but alas... :( Does a CM11a receive _all_ X10 signals and just send them via serial port to the PC? If so, that's exactly what I need. Does anyone have any pointers for that info? I mean, what I'm interested in doing is having sensors send signals to the PC via the CM11a and have some program logic *do something* with that info. For example, say a motion sensor detects motion outside my house. I don't just want a light to come on inside - I want my house to *know* whether I'm at work (internal motion sensors coupled with time-of-day and day-of-week logic) and alpha-page me if someone breaks into my house. Then I want microphones to start recording sounds inside the house, saving the data to the PC's hard drive via the sound card. (These are just hypothetical examples, but I'm sure they could be done with X10.) I'm hoping that the CM11a is just the start of a long and exciting hobby. Thanx for the help, guys! Daniel PS - can't wait to get my new toys and get up & running with Linux HA! :) PPS - obligatory Linux-HA questions. I downloaded and compiled x10d today but it doesn't do anything. I did notice in syslog that it complains of "x10d[11325]: hamx10: unknown service"... so I searched the source and found a getservbyname() call looking for service "hamx10." I've looked on danlan.com but don't find any reference to that service. Anyone got any tips on getting it to work? -- Eagle |
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From: Neil C. <nc...@ho...> - 2001-02-11 16:08:04
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I just downloaded the OSGi server from Gatespace, I'm looking into the OSGi on a recommendation from Lonworks (they were nice enough to respond to my email :-). I haven't quite make heads or tails of everything. But that's because I still have to get IBM's Java 1.3. I'm waiting for my new drive so I can keep the projects better organized. I have hope of possibly using the OSGi software on the Embedded Linux contest board. That project is due in August so I should have some time to pull everything together. I'm still working on the X10 sniffer article, I'm waiting on the EMS1 so I can find out if I have a problem with a weak signal or a design that needs more work. I've just added a new module to my HCS II system. So I should be writing more software for the LHA project soon so I can program, upload, run and monitor the new board without Windows. The same holds true for the Ocelot (I now have 2). Since my contest entry is based on the HA software I think you'll see more progress in the next month. So far I've been doing a lot of behind the scenes work (sorry) so it looks like I've totally forgot the project. I haven't and won't, it's a labor of love. :-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) |
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From: Neil C. <nc...@ho...> - 2001-02-02 02:05:48
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I don't know if you've heard but I'm been working on an X10 sniffer made from a modified TW523. I modified it, put a PIC 16F877 (overkill) and a Perl script together to create a very simple X10 sniffer. It reads every bit on the AC and it can be expanded to do more. I hope to write the article for Circuit Cellar. So far I have a good chunk written but need to work on circuit analysis and double check my code. If this thing is correct I may have a bad CM11A which has a problem with the O/14/O/On sequence. I still have to check the power supply and see if what the signal voltage is (I've ordered the ELK EMS1 to check). At least you know I've not been totally idle. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) |
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From: Neil C. <nc...@ho...> - 2001-02-02 01:59:24
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I apologize for the silence on the list. I have been busy with a lot more than work and normal life (see my next message). As you know the Embedded Linux Journal just released it's first issue and they had a contest where the finalist would get a TRI-M M104 systems board and software for their project. Well LHA made it, the board will be shipping Feb 20. I'm excited but now I have to figure out what I want to squeeze into the board project. So little time, I guess I can give up sleeping. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) |
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From: Neil C. <nc...@ho...> - 2001-01-07 18:10:07
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Here is an interesting article from Home Toys ( http://hometoys.com/ ) about HDTV over IP. This fits into my article I wrote for the Linux Journal. It is my opinion that the LonWorks and CeBus protocols will be moved over to IP soon enough. Remember: 'IP on Everything' (I really need to get a good image of Calvin urinating on something :-). http://hometoys.com/releases/dec00/2netfx01.htm BTW: I apologize for the lull, I am still thinking about the various HA questions that fill my mind. If you've sent email and I haven't responded, I am sorry. I'm not ignoring anyone just not sure how to answer. I hope to get my new HCS modules soon and integrate them into the project. I'm also working on a network sniffer (RS485) that plugs directly into the RS232 port. I'm not sure why I need this but I do. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) |
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From: Neil C. <nc...@ho...> - 2000-12-13 01:10:24
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Not that this project is moving at break neck speed but here is the notice I just received. > > ATTENTION SOURCEFORGE PROJECT ADMINISTRATORS > > This update is being sent to project administrators only and contains > important information regarding your project. Please read it in its > entirety. > > INFRASTRUCTURE UPGRADE, EXPANSION AND RELOCATION > > As noted in the sitewide email sent this week, the SourceForge.net > infrastructure is being upgraded (and relocated). As part of this > projects, plans are underway to further increase capacity and > responsiveness. > > We are scheduling the relocation of the systems serving project > subdomain web pages. > > IMPORTANT: > > This move will affect you in the following ways: > > 1. Service and availability of SourceForge.net and the development > tools provided will continue uninterupted. > > 2. Project page webservers hosting subdomains > (yourprojectname.sourceforge.net) will be down Friday December 15 from > 9PM PST (12AM EST) until 3AM PST. > > 3. CVS will be unavailable (read only part of the time) from 7PM > until 3AM PST > > 4. Mailing lists and mail aliases will be unavailable until 3AM PST > > --------------------- > This email was sent from sourceforge.net. To change your email receipt > preferences, please visit the site and edit your account via the > "Account Maintenance" link. > > Direct any questions to ad...@so..., or reply to this email. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nc...@ho... http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) |
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