linuxconsole-dev

Re: yet another how-to

[Svetoslav S. <ga...@st...>]

Quoting Aiv...@un...:

> 
> 
> >can you take a look at my how to,
> >and give me hard critic on it :)
> >
> 
> Uploaded in startx.times.lv.
thanks, 
i was asking also for corrections :)

> If You have spare time You can test ruby-2.5.66
1.)
i don't have any spare time, i'll try to find place on my 
harddrives, to install redhat & mandrake 8.2, 9 in order to rebuild the packages,
i'm downloading right now redhat 9 for the same purpose, and i'll have to wait
until the download is finished.
i'm also working on the bruby Xservers menu ( & its web page)
i'm also working on the mandrake kernel, but i don't get any feedback  

2.)
i don't have a test PC, starting from 3 weeks ago,
i think i told you that i live in two different cities,
but if not ...
 i had to chage my university 
from the city where i lived with my girlfriend (Nuernberg)
to another city ~100km from it (Regensburg)
so my main PC ( also test PC, not a good combination) is
still in Nuernberg and i can do bruby testing & useing only
when i'm there( vacations & weekends, but in the weekends 
it's pretty hard to find some time for testing, hacking ...)
so during the week i'm in Regensburg, where i can't actually do real testing,
but i hope i'll be able soon. I've got yesterday a new keyboard & a new pci
graphic card, now i have to figure out a monitor.

my new pci graphic card is a "Creative 3D Blaster 4 MX420 PCI",
with a Geforce4 MX420 chip, i couldn't make much testing,
as i could borough a monitor from a  neighbour in the student
dormitory only for 1 hour, but it works in combination with 
Matrox G550, sadly with the illness of the G550 :
G550 must be primary and started first, if you try to restart the G550 
X server the PC hangs, the PC hangs also if you try to reboot from the
G550 screen -- you have to reboot from the second screen(graphic card)
this was with secondary TNT2 M64 ( some months ago on my main PC)
and now is with secondary Geforce4 MX420 ( the PC in Regensburg)

i'm starting to think that the Nvidia PCI cards are perfect for
secondary, 3rd, 4th .. X server, but you have to find also a good
primary card if you want everything to function properly
it seems that the G550 is not exactly such card, but there are also a number of
cards that work good, i hope to test soon the Geforce4 with my Radeon,
which works perfect with my TNT2, and i'm convinced it'll work also perfect.
I'll report as soon as i test it.

> Now here fb console is unusable, but should work
> fb devices (/dev/fbX).
> 1) You can check out standard 2.5.66 compatibility
> with Matrox550, if it work go ahead.
> 2) Check G550 copmpatibility with ruby-2.5.66.
> VGA must be disabled.
> DUMB must be enabled.

do this means that i wont have any console,
i'mean i won't see the bootup messages, log in and work on normal
console before starting X, and the only way to use the system will
be under X, and the display manager have to be started from the 
init scripts otherwise, i wont be able to login & work on the system?

> FB console must be disabled.
> FB devices MATROX must be enabled.
> In abstract You can run two X servers according
> Miguels Freita's suggestions, but both XFree86
> are identical.

you mean i don't need a second X server with usbev support?
 
> Also You can check out
> http://www.thinsoftinc.com/
> same as "ruby" but under MS-Windows.

and i was thinking this is possible only under unix :(
i looked and the page briefly, but i couldn't actually understand
how have they done it, do you have idea?
is it a kind of application?

> Here You can learn how to advertise multi user
> stuff.

now comes the really long part of this mail :)

i was thinking for about 2-3 weeks, that it might be a good 
idea to replace the index.html( the starting page), 
by a wellcome page allowing the visitor to chose his language,
:) with a very nice picture/ background/ smth. similar
representing a single PC connected to 4-5 monitors keyboards, mices,
and may be even users useing it
:)
but i know you wouldn't accept such wellcome page, so i'm tring hard to forget
this idea

serious,
i do think we have to make it public (to "advertise it" like you said),
we have to make it easy to install and configure for the user,
not for the hacker.
if we manage to get more wide usage, we'll have better testing, and better
stability as a result.

if we succeed in "advertising" it, may be, just may be, some of the big fishes
will get interested in it, & i think there some little hope that if this
happens, some one could decide to sponser James Simmons with money & time, to
work only on the linuxconsole project, so it could be merged sooner in the
(vanila) linux kernel( the ones that come from Linus :) )

just think how much money could a bigger company/organisation spare by useing
ruby, or even more ruby + ltsp. i just saw the success with 4 pci Geforce2, this
should work also with TNT2 & probably Geforce4, and you could also probably add
an AGP TNT2 or radeon 7500, so instead of buying 5 PC you get 1 and the
additional Graphic cards, monitors, keyboards, mices. 
How much would company/organisation spare from buing/administration of 10/20/50
PC for 50/100/250 users instead of buying 50/100/250 PC's.
If it works with Matrox dual head cards, and you have 4-5 PCI & 1 AGP this would
mean 10-12 users per PC, if it works with the Matrox multi monitor series  
( 4 heads ) this would mean 20 - 24 users per system, in the first case 5 PC's
replace 50-60 PC's in the second 5 PC replace 100-120 PC, have a calculator ? :) 

so i think we have to work really hard on making ruby/ backstreet ruby populer &
wide used.

i'm tring to do my best on it, but i don't get much help from others :( 

did you got how deep is getting ruby in my head :)
i really think it's amasing what one can do with/under linux,
i really love linux, and i really hate M$.

well that's for now


best,

svetljo

Re: yet another how-to

[Svetoslav S. <ga...@st...>]

Quoting Aiv...@un...:

> 
> Hi svetljo,
> >> >can you take a look at my how to,
> >> >and give me hard critic on it :)
> >> >
> >>
> >> Uploaded in startx.times.lv.
> >thanks,
> >i was asking also for corrections :)
> IMHO users need for various explain, so easy understand.

i updated a bit the how to,
mainly spellcheck with mozilla-composer, but i also added 
an explanation how to modify libglx.so.1.0.[your nvidia driver version]
can you pull it?

> >y new pci graphic card is a "Creative 3D Blaster 4 MX420 PCI",
> >with a Geforce4 MX420 chip, i couldn't make much testing,
> >as i could borough a monitor from a  neighbour in the student
> >dormitory only for 1 hour, but it works in combination with
> >Matrox G550, sadly with the illness of the G550 :
> >G550 must be primary and started first, if you try to restart the
> G550
> >X server the PC hangs, the PC hangs also if you try to reboot from
> the
> >G550 screen -- you have to reboot from the second screen(graphic
> card)
> >this was with secondary TNT2 M64 ( some months ago on my main PC)
> >and now is with secondary Geforce4 MX420 ( the PC in Regensburg)
> 
> Similar mine comp. Mine AGP server is non-stop and write in
> gdm.conf Alwaysrestartserver=false
> AGP must stop last during sytem restart or reboot.
> When You stop sytem from gdm , then stopped X , where You push
> restart button. If You order restart from AGP X , then 1-st stop AGP
> and vice versa.
> AGP always hungup system if stop 1-st and exists other X.
> This feature is video card independ and I dont know how to trace it.
> Actualy I have only Nvidia TNT2-AGP and GeForce4-AGP.

i don't have this problem with ATI AIW Radeon 7500 AGP (primary)
and Nvidia TNT2 M64 PCI( secondary), i hope i wont have it if 
i swap the TNT2 for the newer Geforce4 or even if i add the Geforce4,
but my girlfriend will kill me if i bring one more monitor in her room :)
i can safely restart/halt the PC from both cards useing gdm, i didn't try
restarting the X server on the agp radeon tought.
    
> >i'm starting to think that the Nvidia PCI cards are perfect for
> >secondary, 3rd, 4th .. X server, but you have to find also a good
> >primary card if you want everything to function properly
> >it seems that the G550 is not exactly such card, but there are also a
> number of
> >cards that work good, i hope to test soon the Geforce4 with my
> Radeon,
> >which works perfect with my TNT2, and i'm convinced it'll work also
> perfect.
> >I'll report as soon as i test it.
> 
> Video card compability is under question. This one depend from hardware
> and
> software. NO unambiguous answer if system is untested.
> But Nvidia cards works very well.
> >> Now here fb console is unusable, but should work
> >> fb devices (/dev/fbX).
> >> 1) You can check out standard 2.5.66 compatibility
> >> with Matrox550, if it work go ahead.
> >> 2) Check G550 copmpatibility with ruby-2.5.66.
> >> VGA must be disabled.
> 
> VGA may stay enabled.
> 
> >> DUMB must be enabled.
> 
> >do this means that i wont have any console,
> >i'mean i won't see the bootup messages, log in and work on normal
> >console before starting X, and the only way to use the system will
> >be under X, and the display manager have to be started from the
> >init scripts otherwise, i wont be able to login & work on the system?
> 
> Graphical login promt may be used.
> 
> >> FB console must be disabled.
> >> FB devices MATROX must be enabled.
> >> In abstract You can run two X servers according
> >> Miguels Freita's suggestions, but both XFree86
> >> are identical.
> >
> >you mean i don't need a second X server with usbev support?
> Yes. Used "concurent-ready" X as well under ruby.
> 
> You run 1-st X as normal and 2-nd X use /dev/fbX (X is number)
> and vtXX for keyboard input (DUMB console must be enabled).
> Unfortunately tests failed for my voodoo3 and tnt2.
> I set up VGA and dumcon=1 . After boot I load tdfxfb module.
> This use /dev/fb0. Then load rivafb -- /dev/fb1
> Now I start from serial console (man agetty how to get serial login)
> (S1:2345:respawn:/sbin/agetty -L 9600 ttyS1 in the inittab)
> Ofcourse You can start 1-st X from VGA.
> 1-st X use vt7 and /dev/fb0 as video device.
> 2-nd X use vt8 and /dev/fb1.
> 2-nd X show blank screen for me. If I set up in BIOS primary
> device PCI(voodoo) X work well over voodoo fb device.
> If primary video is AGP(tnt2) then X work over tnt2 fb device.
> 2-nd X start-stop errorless but sreen is blank.
> 
> VGA is destroyed after X start and do not restore. Easy You can
> manipulate with fb module loading un unloading only via serial
> console(ethernet). If You load tdfxfb , it use /dev/fb0. You can
> unload tdfxfb and load rivafb , it use same /dev/fb0. X need only
> /dev/fbX interface and do not need video type specifying.
> 
> So tdfxfb and rivafb works, but not simultaneuos.
> If mgafb

ok, everything is clear now,
so i'll have to find a monitor and checkout

> >> Also You can check out
> >> http://www.thinsoftinc.com/
> >> same as "ruby" but under MS-Windows.
> >
> >and i was thinking this is possible only under unix :(
> >i looked and the page briefly, but i couldn't actually understand
> >how have they done it, do you have idea?
> >is it a kind of application?
> 
> Chinese programmers is industrious. It work for me. It is a winnt
> service and keyboard drivers. After install You get login promt
> in each monitor instead large desktop. Also may work directx hardware
> acceleration for each video (for my office-mate works).
> My 3 sound cards will not work properly under winnt, but only one.

:(
so i wont be able anymore to try convinse win users,
that linux is better with this argument ( without lying :))
:(

well i still think the linux way, is the better one :)

> >> Here You can learn how to advertise multi user
> >> stuff.
> >
> >now comes the really long part of this mail :)
> >
> >i was thinking for about 2-3 weeks, that it might be a good
> >idea to replace the index.html( the starting page),
> >by a wellcome page allowing the visitor to chose his language,
> >:) with a very nice picture/ background/ smth. similar
> >representing a single PC connected to 4-5 monitors keyboards, mices,
> >and may be even users useing it
> >:)
> >but i know you wouldn't accept such wellcome page, so i'm tring hard
> to
> forget
> >this idea
> >
> >serious,
> >i do think we have to make it public (to "advertise it" like you
> said),
> >we have to make it easy to install and configure for the user,
> >not for the hacker.
> >if we manage to get more wide usage, we'll have better testing, and
> better
> >stability as a result.
> 
> I joke. Public mean Linus tree kernel. Without official support this
> stay
> a "hack", has ruby 1000000 users or 10 users.

if there are more users, there would be also more hackers,
more testers and so. The code will improve, may be someone will backport the FB
layer, may be someone will fix the VGA console recovering.

> >if we succeed in "advertising" it, may be, just may be, some of the
> big
> fishes
> >will get interested in it, & i think there some little hope that if
> this
> >happens, some one could decide to sponser James Simmons with money &
> time,
> to
> >work only on the linuxconsole project, so it could be merged sooner in
> the
> >(vanila) linux kernel( the ones that come from Linus :) )
> 
> "big fishes"first ask for official.

well i think there are also such "big fishes" that help for inclusion of code
in the official tree, or help for developing projects,
for example the german goverment is sponsering the development of open source
replacement of M$ Excange server and clients

if we get wide usage, this could convince some of them in the stability and the
benefit.

> >just think how much money could a bigger company/organisation spare
> by
> useing
> >ruby, or even more ruby + ltsp. i just saw the success with 4 pci
> Geforce2, this
> >should work also with TNT2 & probably Geforce4, and you could also
> probably add
> >an AGP TNT2 or radeon 7500, so instead of buying 5 PC you get 1 and
> the
> >additional Graphic cards, monitors, keyboards, mices.
> >How much would company/organisation spare from buing/administration
> of
> 10/20/50
> >PC for 50/100/250 users instead of buying 50/100/250 PC's.
> >If it works with Matrox dual head cards, and you have 4-5 PCI & 1 AGP
> this
> would
> >mean 10-12 users per PC, if it works with the Matrox multi monitor
> series
> >( 4 heads ) this would mean 20 - 24 users per system, in the first case
> 5
> PC's
> >replace 50-60 PC's in the second 5 PC replace 100-120 PC, have a
> calculator ? :)
> >
> >so i think we have to work really hard on making ruby/ backstreet
> ruby
> populer &
> >wide used.
> >
> >i'm tring to do my best on it, but i don't get much help from others
> :(
> 
> By default any is lazy ;-)

well it depends.... :)

svetljo