Re: [Linux-fbdev-devel] The future of framebuffer

[Sven <lu...@dp...>]

On Thu, Oct 04, 2001 at 07:58:51PM +0400, Nick Kurshev wrote:
> Hello, Sven!
> > Sure, but you aren't listening, you just plainly ignore all the non-i=
386
> > hardware out there, as well as all the older vide ocards. And there a=
re a lot
> > of graphic cards that are supported but are not VESA 2.=E0 or later c=
ompatible.
> >=20
> > Also you plainly forget all those where VESA support is somewhat brok=
en.
> >=20
> > and if you use vesafb, you already have most of the fbdve infrastruct=
ure in
> > anyway, so why not use decent drivers ?
> >=20
> I'm sorry - I didn't know about non-x86 architectures.

Remember, fbdev was first developped by Geert on amiga hardware for
linux/m68k, if i am not mistaken. These hardware don't have text consoles=
, and
thus fbdev is a must have on those.

vesafb is simply a nice way to have X running on cards which are not supp=
orted
by XFree86, as well as providing a penguin logo, and a place for some oth=
er
kind of experimentation.

> > You problem here is only with the fonts, why not use modular fonts th=
at can be
> > loaded, or even fonts provided by a userland app ?
> >=20
> Unfortunately - linux documentations lacks (or hides) such information.
> Could you send me URL, please?

There is the fbdev web site, i think, as well as the linux source code
naturally, for something else, you would have to search ...

> > > > Finally, removing many dirvers from the kernel and having them as=
 external
> > > > projects is only asking for problems, incompatibilities and bugs.=
 It is not a
> > > > nice thing to do.=20
> > > >=20
> > > There may be incompatibility but only if linux internal interface i=
s changed
> > > but independed projects will not depend on it. Except case when maj=
or version of
> >=20
> > Sure, but this has not been the case in the past, so ...
> >=20
> > > linux will changed but this situation is similar to having differen=
t drivers
> > > for Win95 and Win2000.
> >=20
> > And is the main reason for all those crashes you get in windows : bad=
ly
> > written or plain incompatible drivers.
> >=20
> Windows (NT series) have only badly written kernel which crashes too fr=
equently ;)

I heard that many of those crashes came from drivers from non reliable th=
ird
parties.

> > > In addition it will give possibility to update such drivers without=
 updating
> > > the kernel and vice versa.
> >=20
> > I can already do that, Or do you think i need to rebuild the kernel e=
ach time
> > i change a line in some fbdev driver code ?
> >=20
> When I'd write a little Makefile for my tiny driver then I'd got such p=
ossibility too.
> If you are developer therefore you have no such problems but many users=
 use
> only stable Linus kernels and they will never install even -pre.X kerne=
l on their computers.
> AFAIK - main problems of fbdev will be fixed only in 2.5 kernels (I hop=
e not in 2.7;)
> (I mean - at least correct unloading fbdev by 'rmmod fbdev' althrough i=
t's meaningless on non-x86)
> Thus mainstream of x86-users will wait until Linux-2.6 will be introduc=
ed.

Well, i hear it is well possible, the real problem is that you need anoth=
er
fbdev to put the console on in the meantime. if you have 2 fbdve, it can =
be
done.

I think it really is a bug of the vgacon layer or whatever, ...

Friendly,

Sven Luther