Thread: [limesurvey-developers] "training" for developers on Expression Manager is ready
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From: Thomas W. M. M. M. <tw...@co...> - 2011-09-21 23:29:46
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Carsten, Thibault and others- As discussed in yesterday's developer meeting, the core documentation for EM is now complete here: http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+for+Developers You should also read http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager for additional details and nuances. Please let me know if there are other categories of information you'd like me to add. /Tom |
From: Marcel M. (Limesurvey) <mar...@li...> - 2011-09-22 09:21:11
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Hi Tom, thanks for documenting your great feature so well, that really helps. At the forum I have seen several posts like "With the new Expression Manager you can solve your problem this way or that way.". Regarding your question for which additional information we might need I would like to ask for a documentation section with some use cases. There are several issues at which EM can be used in the future so having a small use case, just a simple step-by-step explanation how to set it up for each case, will help a lot to understand the various situations at which EM could be used. Some possible use cases from memory: 1. Calculate assessment values at runtime and store the results at the survey data 2. Replace conditions (we might need 2-3 use cases for different conditions of different complexity) 3. Replace text strings based on certain values like "Dear {Mr}/{Mrs} Smith..." 4. Show a summary of the user's answers at the end of the survey ... For a first and general understanding of EM I consider this quite useful and a good first start to play around with it. Once this is done we could spread the word on limesurvey.org (like for the CPDB feature: http://www.limesurvey.org/en/component/content/article/1-general-news/226-new-qcentral-participants-databaseq-feature-is-ready-for-testing) and at the forum. The combination of use cases and some testing instructions might help to get more users on board. What do others think? Best regards, Marcel Am 22.09.2011 01:29, schrieb Thomas White, MD, MS, MA: > Carsten, Thibault and others- > > As discussed in yesterday's developer meeting, the core documentation > for EM is now complete here: > http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+for+Developers > You should also read http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager for > additional details and nuances. > > Please let me know if there are other categories of information you'd > like me to add. > > /Tom > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a > definitive record of customers, application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > |
From: Thomas W. M. M. M. <tw...@co...> - 2011-09-22 18:38:28
|
Marcel, Thibault and Carsten- Is this the level of detail you think would be helpful to survey authors trying to learn to use EM to create surveys? -- http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+HowTos Lots more to do, but this is a representative start. /Tom On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) < mar...@li...> wrote: > ** > Hi Tom, > > thanks for documenting your great feature so well, that really helps. > > At the forum I have seen several posts like "With the new Expression > Manager you can solve your problem this way or that way.". Regarding your > question for which additional information we might need I would like to ask > for a documentation section with some use cases. There are several issues at > which EM can be used in the future so having a small use case, just a simple > step-by-step explanation how to set it up for each case, will help a lot to > understand the various situations at which EM could be used. > > Some possible use cases from memory: > > 1. Calculate assessment values at runtime and store the results at the > survey data > > 2. Replace conditions (we might need 2-3 use cases for different conditions > of different complexity) > > 3. Replace text strings based on certain values like "Dear {Mr}/{Mrs} > Smith..." > > 4. Show a summary of the user's answers at the end of the survey > > ... > > For a first and general understanding of EM I consider this quite useful > and a good first start to play around with it. Once this is done we could > spread the word on limesurvey.org (like for the CPDB feature: > http://www.limesurvey.org/en/component/content/article/1-general-news/226-new-qcentral-participants-databaseq-feature-is-ready-for-testing) > and at the forum. > > The combination of use cases and some testing instructions might help to > get more users on board. What do others think? > > Best regards, > Marcel > > Am 22.09.2011 01:29, schrieb Thomas White, MD, MS, MA: > > Carsten, Thibault and others- > > As discussed in yesterday's developer meeting, the core documentation for > EM is now complete here: > http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+for+Developers > You should also read http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager for > additional details and nuances. > > Please let me know if there are other categories of information you'd > like me to add. > > /Tom > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a > definitive record of customers, application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense.http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing lis...@li...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a > definitive record of customers, application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > |
From: Marcel M. (Limesurvey) <mar...@li...> - 2011-09-22 20:45:18
|
Hi Tom, thanks a lot for this documentation. I think it is a good first start but please take care to not write documentation from the developer point of view but from the user point of view. My experience from years of support is that 90% of the users do not have any IT background knowledge so they need really simple examples for each possible use case. Some really simple stuff for the most common use cases where they only need to replace one value is something they can deal with but complex operations will give them a headache. So how can we deal with this? Some suggestions: 1. We need a user friendly GUI, something like the condition designer but even nicer :-) 2. How about creating a wiki page where users can share their EM examples? We have something similar for regular expressions (http://docs.limesurvey.org/Using+regular+expressions&structure=English+Instructions+for+LimeSurvey) and this list grows. 3. Referring to #2, maybe we can have some Google Code In 2011 tasks to create further simple use cases?! 4. Since we can sum up most examples within one question group we should offer some sample .LSG files for each example so users can simply import it to play around with it and change some values for testing. We did something similar for complex question types and these files are downloaded a lot. Two short questions: 1. When importing a survey which uses EM expressions, will there be any problems with certain IDs which have to be adjusted? 2. I might simply not have understood it correctly, but what happens if I use the same question codes for each question at the assessment examples (http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+HowTos#Calculation_Assessment_Examples)? Wouldn't that cause problems? In the future, will we need a check that each question code processed by EM is unique? Greetings from someone who hates writing documentation... Marcel Am 22.09.2011 20:38, schrieb Thomas White, MD, MS, MA: > Marcel, Thibault and Carsten- > > Is this the level of detail you think would be helpful to survey > authors trying to learn to use EM to create surveys? -- > http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+HowTos > > Lots more to do, but this is a representative start. > > /Tom > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) > <mar...@li... <mailto:mar...@li...>> wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > thanks for documenting your great feature so well, that really helps. > > At the forum I have seen several posts like "With the new > Expression Manager you can solve your problem this way or that > way.". Regarding your question for which additional information we > might need I would like to ask for a documentation section with > some use cases. There are several issues at which EM can be used > in the future so having a small use case, just a simple > step-by-step explanation how to set it up for each case, will help > a lot to understand the various situations at which EM could be used. > > Some possible use cases from memory: > > 1. Calculate assessment values at runtime and store the results at > the survey data > > 2. Replace conditions (we might need 2-3 use cases for different > conditions of different complexity) > > 3. Replace text strings based on certain values like "Dear > {Mr}/{Mrs} Smith..." > > 4. Show a summary of the user's answers at the end of the survey > > ... > > For a first and general understanding of EM I consider this quite > useful and a good first start to play around with it. Once this is > done we could spread the word on limesurvey.org > <http://limesurvey.org> (like for the CPDB feature: > http://www.limesurvey.org/en/component/content/article/1-general-news/226-new-qcentral-participants-databaseq-feature-is-ready-for-testing) > and at the forum. > > The combination of use cases and some testing instructions might > help to get more users on board. What do others think? > > Best regards, > Marcel > > Am 22.09.2011 01:29, schrieb Thomas White, MD, MS, MA: >> Carsten, Thibault and others- >> >> As discussed in yesterday's developer meeting, the core >> documentation for EM is now complete here: >> http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+for+Developers >> You should also read >> http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager for additional >> details and nuances. >> >> Please let me know if there are other categories of information >> you'd like me to add. >> >> /Tom >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a >> definitive record of customers, application performance, security >> threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes >> sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> limesurvey-developers mailing list >> lim...@li... <mailto:lim...@li...> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure > contains a > definitive record of customers, application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and > makes > sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > <mailto:lim...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a > definitive record of customers, application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > |
From: Menno D. <men...@er...> - 2011-09-23 07:07:13
|
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-15" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> >From export (SPSS/R) perspective I always advice people to have unique question codes. The SGQA if is a pain for portability so I would love to see some kind of check for a unique question code. On activate would be enough and the easiest to do, but a check on question save would be much better. This unique code can then be used as ID in the javascript too. Makes porting custom js a lot easier.<br> <br> on 22-09-2011 22:45 Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) said the following: <blockquote cite="mid:4E7...@li..." type="cite"> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-15" http-equiv="Content-Type"> Hi Tom,<br> <br> thanks a lot for this documentation. I think it is a good first start but please take care to not write documentation from the developer point of view but from the user point of view. My experience from years of support is that 90% of the users do not have any IT background knowledge so they need really simple examples for each possible use case. Some really simple stuff for the most common use cases where they only need to replace one value is something they can deal with but complex operations will give them a headache. <br> <br> So how can we deal with this? Some suggestions:<br> 1. We need a user friendly GUI, something like the condition designer but even nicer :-)<br> 2. How about creating a wiki page where users can share their EM examples? We have something similar for regular expressions (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://docs.limesurvey.org/Using+regular+expressions&structure=English+Instructions+for+LimeSurvey">http://docs.limesurvey.org/Using+regular+expressions&structure=English+Instructions+for+LimeSurvey</a>) and this list grows.<br> 3. Referring to #2, maybe we can have some Google Code In 2011 tasks to create further simple use cases?!<br> 4. Since we can sum up most examples within one question group we should offer some sample .LSG files for each example so users can simply import it to play around with it and change some values for testing. We did something similar for complex question types and these files are downloaded a lot.<br> <br> Two short questions: <br> 1. When importing a survey which uses EM expressions, will there be any problems with certain IDs which have to be adjusted?<br> 2. I might simply not have understood it correctly, but what happens if I use the same question codes for each question at the assessment examples (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+HowTos#Calculation_Assessment_Examples">http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+HowTos#Calculation_Assessment_Examples</a>)? <br> Wouldn't that cause problems?<br> In the future, will we need a check that each question code processed by EM is unique?<br> <br> Greetings from someone who hates writing documentation...<br> Marcel<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> Am 22.09.2011 20:38, schrieb Thomas White, MD, MS, MA: <blockquote cite="mid:CAP...@ma..." type="cite">Marcel, Thibault and Carsten- <div><br> </div> <div>Is this the level of detail you think would be helpful to survey authors trying to learn to use EM to create surveys? -- <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+HowTos">http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+HowTos</a></div> <div><br> </div> <div>Lots more to do, but this is a representative start.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>/Tom<br> <br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mar...@li...">mar...@li...</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Hi Tom,<br> <br> thanks for documenting your great feature so well, that really helps.<br> <br> At the forum I have seen several posts like "With the new Expression Manager you can solve your problem this way or that way.". Regarding your question for which additional information we might need I would like to ask for a documentation section with some use cases. There are several issues at which EM can be used in the future so having a small use case, just a simple step-by-step explanation how to set it up for each case, will help a lot to understand the various situations at which EM could be used.<br> <br> Some possible use cases from memory:<br> <br> 1. Calculate assessment values at runtime and store the results at the survey data<br> <br> 2. Replace conditions (we might need 2-3 use cases for different conditions of different complexity)<br> <br> 3. Replace text strings based on certain values like "Dear {Mr}/{Mrs} Smith..."<br> <br> 4. Show a summary of the user's answers at the end of the survey<br> <br> ...<br> <br> For a first and general understanding of EM I consider this quite useful and a good first start to play around with it. Once this is done we could spread the word on <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://limesurvey.org" target="_blank">limesurvey.org</a> (like for the CPDB feature: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.limesurvey.org/en/component/content/article/1-general-news/226-new-qcentral-participants-databaseq-feature-is-ready-for-testing" target="_blank">http://www.limesurvey.org/en/component/content/article/1-general-news/226-new-qcentral-participants-databaseq-feature-is-ready-for-testing</a>) and at the forum.<br> <br> The combination of use cases and some testing instructions might help to get more users on board. What do others think?<br> <br> Best regards,<br> Marcel<br> <br> Am 22.09.2011 01:29, schrieb Thomas White, MD, MS, MA: <blockquote type="cite"> <div> <div class="h5">Carsten, Thibault and others- <div><br> </div> <div>As discussed in yesterday's developer meeting, the core documentation for EM is now complete here: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+for+Developers" target="_blank">http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+for+Developers</a></div> <div>You should also read <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager" target="_blank">http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager</a> for additional details and nuances.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Please let me know if there are other categories of information you'd like me to add.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>/Tom</div> </div> </div> <pre><fieldset></fieldset> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1</a></pre> <pre><fieldset></fieldset> _______________________________________________ limesurvey-developers mailing list <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lim...@li..." target="_blank">lim...@li...</a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers" target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers</a> </pre> </blockquote> </div> <br> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a<br> definitive record of customers, application performance, security<br> threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes<br> sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense.<br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1" target="_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1</a><br> _______________________________________________<br> limesurvey-developers mailing list<br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lim...@li...">lim...@li...</a><br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers" target="_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers</a><br> <br> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> <pre wrap=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1">http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1</a></pre> <pre wrap=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> _______________________________________________ limesurvey-developers mailing list <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lim...@li...">lim...@li...</a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> <hr size="4" width="90%"> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1">http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1</a></pre> <pre wrap=""> <hr size="4" width="90%"> _______________________________________________ limesurvey-developers mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lim...@li...">lim...@li...</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers</a> </pre> </blockquote> </body> </html> |
From: Carsten S. <car...@li...> - 2011-09-23 07:25:30
|
Enforcing a unique question code across the survey should not be too hard. But if we enforce it we have to make sure that all existing surveys don't have duplicate codes so there needs to be an upgrade procedure which takes care of that. Especially in the case of active surveys this will be a great mess. If we start doing changes like that we should go the whole nine yards and redesign the fieldnames completely (same great mess) but only once. Am 23.09.2011 09:13, schrieb Thibault Le Meur: > Le 23/09/2011 09:07, Menno Dekker a écrit : >> >From export (SPSS/R) perspective I always advice people to have >> unique question codes. The SGQA if is a pain for portability so I >> would love to see some kind of check for a unique question code. On >> activate would be enough and the easiest to do, but a check on >> question save would be much better. This unique code can then be used >> as ID in the javascript too. Makes porting custom js a lot easier. > > > I fully agree with you Menno. > Morover, in order to avoid a potential SGQA collision between "SGQ" > and "SGQA" fieldnames, I strongly recommend to use question code > beginning with a Letter (not a number). > > I would propose a new global setting > "$enforce_question_code_consistency = true" that would enforce these 2 > points: > * a question code must be unique within the survey > * a question code begins with a char other than a number > > My 2 cents, > Thibault > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers |
From: Marcel M. (Limesurvey) <mar...@li...> - 2011-09-23 09:12:51
|
Hi everybody, I totally agree that we should add a check for unique question codes. Can somebody open a ticket for this? I also see the long term consequences of redesigning the fieldmaps, but that's nothing I would like to touch soon. Better get the CI version stable first. So how about adding the uniqueness check at the current CI version without an update procedure so far? Since we are planning to name the next release "Limesurvey 2.0 alpha" the user should expect some major changes so it should not be too hard to argue "The new EM will rely on unique question codes so there is a check for it when creating new surveys. If you want to use EM for old, existing surveys, please check the uniqueness yourself (either manually or by a function which the user could call from the admin backend)". I consider this the easier way which also takes care of the tough time line to release a first Limesurvey 2.0 version at mid October. Just my 2 cents... Have a nice weekend everybody, Marcel Am 23.09.2011 09:25, schrieb Carsten Schmitz: > > Enforcing a unique question code across the survey should not be too hard. > But if we enforce it we have to make sure that all existing surveys > don't have duplicate codes so there needs to be an upgrade procedure > which takes care of that. > Especially in the case of active surveys this will be a great mess. > > If we start doing changes like that we should go the whole nine yards > and redesign the fieldnames completely (same great mess) but only once. > > > > > Am 23.09.2011 09:13, schrieb Thibault Le Meur: >> Le 23/09/2011 09:07, Menno Dekker a écrit : >>> >From export (SPSS/R) perspective I always advice people to have >>> unique question codes. The SGQA if is a pain for portability so I >>> would love to see some kind of check for a unique question code. On >>> activate would be enough and the easiest to do, but a check on >>> question save would be much better. This unique code can then be >>> used as ID in the javascript too. Makes porting custom js a lot easier. >> >> >> I fully agree with you Menno. >> Morover, in order to avoid a potential SGQA collision between "SGQ" >> and "SGQA" fieldnames, I strongly recommend to use question code >> beginning with a Letter (not a number). >> >> I would propose a new global setting >> "$enforce_question_code_consistency = true" that would enforce these >> 2 points: >> * a question code must be unique within the survey >> * a question code begins with a char other than a number >> >> My 2 cents, >> Thibault >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. >> Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security >> threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes >> sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> limesurvey-developers mailing list >> lim...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > |
From: Thibault Le M. <Thi...@su...> - 2011-09-23 07:14:03
|
Le 23/09/2011 09:07, Menno Dekker a écrit : > >From export (SPSS/R) perspective I always advice people to have > unique question codes. The SGQA if is a pain for portability so I > would love to see some kind of check for a unique question code. On > activate would be enough and the easiest to do, but a check on > question save would be much better. This unique code can then be used > as ID in the javascript too. Makes porting custom js a lot easier. I fully agree with you Menno. Morover, in order to avoid a potential SGQA collision between "SGQ" and "SGQA" fieldnames, I strongly recommend to use question code beginning with a Letter (not a number). I would propose a new global setting "$enforce_question_code_consistency = true" that would enforce these 2 points: * a question code must be unique within the survey * a question code begins with a char other than a number My 2 cents, Thibault |
From: Thibault Le M. <Thi...@su...> - 2011-09-22 09:57:33
|
Hi Marcel, It was decided during the devel meeting that user documentation will be completed after development is over. Thomas is a genius software designer but with limitted time, It is better for everyone to let him focus on the remaining tricky development issues and on passing knowledge on how to maintain and expand EM to other developpers. Once other contributors know how EM works, they will be able to write documentation, and Thomas will be able to share the devel load. Then we'll have more time and manpower to write the user documentation. Thibault Le 22/09/2011 11:21, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) a écrit : > Hi Tom, > > thanks for documenting your great feature so well, that really helps. > > At the forum I have seen several posts like "With the new Expression > Manager you can solve your problem this way or that way.". Regarding > your question for which additional information we might need I would > like to ask for a documentation section with some use cases. There are > several issues at which EM can be used in the future so having a small > use case, just a simple step-by-step explanation how to set it up for > each case, will help a lot to understand the various situations at > which EM could be used. > |
From: Marcel M. (Limesurvey) <mar...@li...> - 2011-09-22 10:09:58
|
I get your point, Thibault. My suggestion was based on the impression that Tom might have been a little desperate because of the lack of feedback he received. I don't think many people have really tested the EM so I thought the use cases might be a good start to get more people on board for testing. Let's wait for Tom to decide how to best use his limited time. I'll respect whatever he decides because he does a great job. Best regards, Marcel Am 22.09.2011 11:57, schrieb Thibault Le Meur: > Hi Marcel, > > It was decided during the devel meeting that user documentation will > be completed after development is over. > Thomas is a genius software designer but with limitted time, It is > better for everyone to let him focus on the remaining tricky > development issues and on passing knowledge on how to maintain and > expand EM to other developpers. Once other contributors know how EM > works, they will be able to write documentation, and Thomas will be > able to share the devel load. Then we'll have more time and manpower > to write the user documentation. > > Thibault > > > > > > Le 22/09/2011 11:21, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) a écrit : >> Hi Tom, >> >> thanks for documenting your great feature so well, that really helps. >> >> At the forum I have seen several posts like "With the new Expression >> Manager you can solve your problem this way or that way.". Regarding >> your question for which additional information we might need I would >> like to ask for a documentation section with some use cases. There >> are several issues at which EM can be used in the future so having a >> small use case, just a simple step-by-step explanation how to set it >> up for each case, will help a lot to understand the various >> situations at which EM could be used. >> > |
From: Thomas W. M. M. M. <tw...@co...> - 2011-09-22 11:25:14
|
Marcel and Thibault- It won't take much time to generate some of the use cases Marcel suggests, and I agree that it will help get people started. On the other hand, if there is additional developer documentation needed, just let me know - it would not be hard to add that either. That's easy multi-tasking during the many conference calls I have each day. /Tom On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:09 AM, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) < mar...@li...> wrote: > ** > I get your point, Thibault. > > My suggestion was based on the impression that Tom might have been a little > desperate because of the lack of feedback he received. I don't think many > people have really tested the EM so I thought the use cases might be a good > start to get more people on board for testing. > > Let's wait for Tom to decide how to best use his limited time. I'll respect > whatever he decides because he does a great job. > > Best regards, > Marcel > > Am 22.09.2011 11:57, schrieb Thibault Le Meur: > > Hi Marcel, > > It was decided during the devel meeting that user documentation will be > completed after development is over. > Thomas is a genius software designer but with limitted time, It is better > for everyone to let him focus on the remaining tricky development issues and > on passing knowledge on how to maintain and expand EM to other developpers. > Once other contributors know how EM works, they will be able to write > documentation, and Thomas will be able to share the devel load. Then we'll > have more time and manpower to write the user documentation. > > Thibault > > > > > > Le 22/09/2011 11:21, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) a écrit : > > Hi Tom, > > thanks for documenting your great feature so well, that really helps. > > At the forum I have seen several posts like "With the new Expression > Manager you can solve your problem this way or that way.". Regarding your > question for which additional information we might need I would like to ask > for a documentation section with some use cases. There are several issues at > which EM can be used in the future so having a small use case, just a simple > step-by-step explanation how to set it up for each case, will help a lot to > understand the various situations at which EM could be used. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a > definitive record of customers, application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > |
From: Thibault Le M. <Thi...@su...> - 2011-09-22 11:38:04
|
Le 22/09/2011 13:25, Thomas White, MD, MS, MA a écrit : > Marcel and Thibault- > > It won't take much time to generate some of the use cases Marcel > suggests, and I agree that it will help get people started. Ok, it's up to you. > > On the other hand, if there is additional developer documentation > needed, just let me know - it would not be hard to add that either. > That's easy multi-tasking during the many conference calls I have > each day. I really appreciate the documentation, it is a really clear. Thanks for this. I've noted the "FIXME: Eventually we should separate out such add-on functions into their own php file" (same thing with Javascript) and I think this is really important so that when updating Limesurvety we do not overwrite user-defined PHP/JS functions. Again thank you for the documentation, it will really help jumping into EM. Thibault |
From: Thomas W. M. M. M. <tw...@co...> - 2011-09-23 04:25:51
|
Marcel- Thanks for the feedback. I'll make sure the HowTos start more basic. However, people don't need IT backgrounds to understand relevance or equations. This is all basic stuff for people doing surveys. Regardless, I'll make sure there are basic, intermediate, and advanced examples to cover the needs of our user base. Since it may be a while before a GUI can be developed, I'll also show examples and screen-shots of what syntax errors look like and how easily and quickly they can be fixed. Since my screenshots are from real surveys, I'll also export the .lsg files, and make them available, plus make the whole survey with all the examples available. Since I'm not using SGQA codes, there is no problem with importing surveys - they'll always work unless the person is overlaying existing question codes. Your last comment is important, and I'll highlight that in the documentation too. For EM to fully work as expected, people should use unique question codes. I expect that anyone doing serious analysis of their data is already using unique codes, since it is the code value that becomes the variable name in SPSS and R exports. It is possible to do all of the EM functionality using SGQA codes, but I'd advise against it since the SGQA codes won't be changed on import (at least not using the current code). So, rather, I'd advise people to use unique question codes. We should also add a check to tell people if they try to re-use a code (e.g. a pop-up when they save the question, plus a check when they try to activate the survey). This does raise the issue of whether people can easily import the same group multiple times to support virtual "looping" of a group of questions. Since EM does internally use the SGQA codes, it will still be possible to import the same lsg group file multiple times. However, in order to get the expected behavior, the user should change all of the question codes and make sure that the relevance and tailoring equations use the new code. The way I've always done that in the past is to simply add an iteration suffix to the questions. But, it also ties back to my hope that we can create an Excel import format so that it is easier to create 1000+ questions with lots of repeating content (like large blocks with similar relevance, or repeating groups) - see this isssue: http://bugs.limesurvey.org/view.php?id=5105 /Tom On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) < mar...@li...> wrote: > ** > Hi Tom, > > thanks a lot for this documentation. I think it is a good first start but > please take care to not write documentation from the developer point of view > but from the user point of view. My experience from years of support is that > 90% of the users do not have any IT background knowledge so they need really > simple examples for each possible use case. Some really simple stuff for the > most common use cases where they only need to replace one value is something > they can deal with but complex operations will give them a headache. > > So how can we deal with this? Some suggestions: > 1. We need a user friendly GUI, something like the condition designer but > even nicer :-) > 2. How about creating a wiki page where users can share their EM examples? > We have something similar for regular expressions ( > http://docs.limesurvey.org/Using+regular+expressions&structure=English+Instructions+for+LimeSurvey) > and this list grows. > 3. Referring to #2, maybe we can have some Google Code In 2011 tasks to > create further simple use cases?! > 4. Since we can sum up most examples within one question group we should > offer some sample .LSG files for each example so users can simply import it > to play around with it and change some values for testing. We did something > similar for complex question types and these files are downloaded a lot. > > Two short questions: > 1. When importing a survey which uses EM expressions, will there be any > problems with certain IDs which have to be adjusted? > 2. I might simply not have understood it correctly, but what happens if I > use the same question codes for each question at the assessment examples ( > http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+HowTos#Calculation_Assessment_Examples)? > > Wouldn't that cause problems? > In the future, will we need a check that each question code processed by EM > is unique? > > Greetings from someone who hates writing documentation... > Marcel > > > > > Am 22.09.2011 20:38, schrieb Thomas White, MD, MS, MA: > > Marcel, Thibault and Carsten- > > Is this the level of detail you think would be helpful to survey authors > trying to learn to use EM to create surveys? -- > http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+HowTos > > Lots more to do, but this is a representative start. > > /Tom > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) < > mar...@li...> wrote: > >> Hi Tom, >> >> thanks for documenting your great feature so well, that really helps. >> >> At the forum I have seen several posts like "With the new Expression >> Manager you can solve your problem this way or that way.". Regarding your >> question for which additional information we might need I would like to ask >> for a documentation section with some use cases. There are several issues at >> which EM can be used in the future so having a small use case, just a simple >> step-by-step explanation how to set it up for each case, will help a lot to >> understand the various situations at which EM could be used. >> >> Some possible use cases from memory: >> >> 1. Calculate assessment values at runtime and store the results at the >> survey data >> >> 2. Replace conditions (we might need 2-3 use cases for different >> conditions of different complexity) >> >> 3. Replace text strings based on certain values like "Dear {Mr}/{Mrs} >> Smith..." >> >> 4. Show a summary of the user's answers at the end of the survey >> >> ... >> >> For a first and general understanding of EM I consider this quite useful >> and a good first start to play around with it. Once this is done we could >> spread the word on limesurvey.org (like for the CPDB feature: >> http://www.limesurvey.org/en/component/content/article/1-general-news/226-new-qcentral-participants-databaseq-feature-is-ready-for-testing) >> and at the forum. >> >> The combination of use cases and some testing instructions might help to >> get more users on board. What do others think? >> >> Best regards, >> Marcel >> >> Am 22.09.2011 01:29, schrieb Thomas White, MD, MS, MA: >> >> Carsten, Thibault and others- >> >> As discussed in yesterday's developer meeting, the core documentation >> for EM is now complete here: >> http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager+for+Developers >> You should also read http://docs.limesurvey.org/Expression+Manager for >> additional details and nuances. >> >> Please let me know if there are other categories of information you'd >> like me to add. >> >> /Tom >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a >> definitive record of customers, application performance, security >> threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes >> sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense.http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> limesurvey-developers mailing lis...@li...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a >> definitive record of customers, application performance, security >> threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes >> sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 >> _______________________________________________ >> limesurvey-developers mailing list >> lim...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a > definitive record of customers, application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense.http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing lis...@li...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a > definitive record of customers, application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy1 > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > |
From: Thibault Le M. <Thi...@su...> - 2011-09-23 07:27:03
|
Le 23/09/2011 06:25, Thomas White, MD, MS, MA a écrit : > Marcel- > > Thanks for the feedback. I'll make sure the HowTos start more basic. > However, people don't need IT backgrounds to understand relevance or > equations. This is all basic stuff for people doing surveys. > Regardless, I'll make sure there are basic, intermediate, and > advanced examples to cover the needs of our user base. > > Since it may be a while before a GUI can be developed, I'll also show > examples and screen-shots of what syntax errors look like and how > easily and quickly they can be fixed. One thing that may be confusing users: in the screenshots we only see "if (XXXXX,'A','B')" and not "{if (XXXXX,'A','B')}". It would be nice to see how to enter the Expression and then how it is displayed in the syntax parser. My 2 cents, Thibault |
From: Thibault Le M. <Thi...@su...> - 2011-09-23 09:25:10
|
Le 23/09/2011 11:12, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) a écrit : > Hi everybody, > > I totally agree that we should add a check for unique question codes. > Can somebody open a ticket for this? > > I also see the long term consequences of redesigning the fieldmaps, > but that's nothing I would like to touch soon. Better get the CI > version stable first. So how about adding the uniqueness check at the > current CI version without an update procedure so far? Since we are > planning to name the next release "Limesurvey 2.0 alpha" the user > should expect some major changes so it should not be too hard to argue > "The new EM will rely on unique question codes so there is a check for > it when creating new surveys. If you want to use EM for old, existing > surveys, please check the uniqueness yourself (either manually or by a > function which the user could call from the admin backend)". > I consider this the easier way which also takes care of the tough time > line to release a first Limesurvey 2.0 version at mid October. I feel the same about this Mazi. Thibault > > Just my 2 cents... > > Have a nice weekend everybody, > Marcel > > Am 23.09.2011 09:25, schrieb Carsten Schmitz: >> >> Enforcing a unique question code across the survey should not be too >> hard. >> But if we enforce it we have to make sure that all existing surveys >> don't have duplicate codes so there needs to be an upgrade procedure >> which takes care of that. >> Especially in the case of active surveys this will be a great mess. >> >> If we start doing changes like that we should go the whole nine yards >> and redesign the fieldnames completely (same great mess) but only once. >> >> >> >> >> Am 23.09.2011 09:13, schrieb Thibault Le Meur: >>> Le 23/09/2011 09:07, Menno Dekker a écrit : >>>> >From export (SPSS/R) perspective I always advice people to have >>>> unique question codes. The SGQA if is a pain for portability so I >>>> would love to see some kind of check for a unique question code. On >>>> activate would be enough and the easiest to do, but a check on >>>> question save would be much better. This unique code can then be >>>> used as ID in the javascript too. Makes porting custom js a lot easier. >>> >>> >>> I fully agree with you Menno. >>> Morover, in order to avoid a potential SGQA collision between "SGQ" >>> and "SGQA" fieldnames, I strongly recommend to use question code >>> beginning with a Letter (not a number). >>> >>> I would propose a new global setting >>> "$enforce_question_code_consistency = true" that would enforce these >>> 2 points: >>> * a question code must be unique within the survey >>> * a question code begins with a char other than a number >>> >>> My 2 cents, >>> Thibault >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. >>> Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security >>> threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes >>> sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> limesurvey-developers mailing list >>> lim...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. >> Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security >> threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes >> sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> limesurvey-developers mailing list >> lim...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers |
From: Thomas W. M. M. M. <tw...@co...> - 2011-09-23 11:23:06
|
Hi all. EM already uses existing fieldnames internally, so there is no need to change them. In fact, changing them would require some major re-work in EM and other parts of the LimeSurvey. Rather, EM provides question code as an alias to access the underlying SGQA fieldname. So, we should still have something like $enforce_question_code_consistency = true, but we don't need to overhaul the fieldnames themselves. The other advantage of SGQA fieldnames is that you don't have to worry about having them overwrite any other internal PHP variable names. If you really wanted to move away from SGQA, you'd need to move the stored SGQA values into a sub-section of $_SESSION so there are no namespace collisions. /Tom On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Thibault Le Meur < Thi...@su...> wrote: > Le 23/09/2011 11:12, Marcel Minke (Limesurvey) a écrit : > > Hi everybody, > > I totally agree that we should add a check for unique question codes. Can > somebody open a ticket for this? > > I also see the long term consequences of redesigning the fieldmaps, but > that's nothing I would like to touch soon. Better get the CI version stable > first. So how about adding the uniqueness check at the current CI version > without an update procedure so far? Since we are planning to name the next > release "Limesurvey 2.0 alpha" the user should expect some major changes so > it should not be too hard to argue "The new EM will rely on unique question > codes so there is a check for it when creating new surveys. If you want to > use EM for old, existing surveys, please check the uniqueness yourself > (either manually or by a function which the user could call from the admin > backend)". > I consider this the easier way which also takes care of the tough time line > to release a first Limesurvey 2.0 version at mid October. > > > I feel the same about this Mazi. > > Thibault > > > > > Just my 2 cents... > > Have a nice weekend everybody, > Marcel > > Am 23.09.2011 09:25, schrieb Carsten Schmitz: > > > Enforcing a unique question code across the survey should not be too hard. > But if we enforce it we have to make sure that all existing surveys don't > have duplicate codes so there needs to be an upgrade procedure which takes > care of that. > Especially in the case of active surveys this will be a great mess. > > If we start doing changes like that we should go the whole nine yards and > redesign the fieldnames completely (same great mess) but only once. > > > > > Am 23.09.2011 09:13, schrieb Thibault Le Meur: > > Le 23/09/2011 09:07, Menno Dekker a écrit : > > >From export (SPSS/R) perspective I always advice people to have unique > question codes. The SGQA if is a pain for portability so I would love to see > some kind of check for a unique question code. On activate would be enough > and the easiest to do, but a check on question save would be much better. > This unique code can then be used as ID in the javascript too. Makes porting > custom js a lot easier. > > > > I fully agree with you Menno. > Morover, in order to avoid a potential SGQA collision between "SGQ" and > "SGQA" fieldnames, I strongly recommend to use question code beginning with > a Letter (not a number). > > I would propose a new global setting "$enforce_question_code_consistency = > true" that would enforce these 2 points: > * a question code must be unique within the survey > * a question code begins with a char other than a number > > My 2 cents, > Thibault > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing lis...@li...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing lis...@li...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing lis...@li...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > _______________________________________________ > limesurvey-developers mailing list > lim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/limesurvey-developers > > |
From: Thomas W. M. M. M. <tw...@co...> - 2011-09-23 11:26:27
|
Thibault said: >One thing that may be confusing users: in the screenshots we only see >"if (XXXXX,'A','B')" and not "{if (XXXXX,'A','B')}". It would be nice to >see how to enter the Expression and then how it is displayed in the >syntax parser. I initially had the syntax-highlighter show {xxxx}. The problem is that EM does recursive substitution, so then it would try to process that, which generated lots of errors. My solution was to provide a background color for the entire Expression so that people could see where they are. The other option would have been to add embedded space, like { xxxx }, or to escape the curly braces like \{ xxxx \}, but I thought both would actually be more confusing. I can explain this in documentation so that people won't be confused. /Tom On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 3:26 AM, Thibault Le Meur < Thi...@su...> wrote: > Le 23/09/2011 06:25, Thomas White, MD, MS, MA a écrit : > > Marcel- > > > > Thanks for the feedback. I'll make sure the HowTos start more basic. > > However, people don't need IT backgrounds to understand relevance or > > equations. This is all basic stuff for people doing surveys. > > Regardless, I'll make sure there are basic, intermediate, and > > advanced examples to cover the needs of our user base. > > > > Since it may be a while before a GUI can be developed, I'll also show > > examples and screen-shots of what syntax errors look like and how > > easily and quickly they can be fixed. > > One thing that may be confusing users: in the screenshots we only see > "if (XXXXX,'A','B')" and not "{if (XXXXX,'A','B')}". It would be nice to > see how to enter the Expression and then how it is displayed in the > syntax parser. > > My 2 cents, > Thibault > |
From: Thibault Le M. <Thi...@su...> - 2011-09-23 11:38:02
|
Le 23/09/2011 13:26, Thomas White, MD, MS, MA a écrit : > Thibault said: > > >One thing that may be confusing users: in the screenshots we only see > >"if (XXXXX,'A','B')" and not "{if (XXXXX,'A','B')}". It would be nice to > >see how to enter the Expression and then how it is displayed in the > >syntax parser. > > I initially had the syntax-highlighter show {xxxx}. The problem is > that EM does recursive substitution, so then it would try to process > that, which generated lots of errors. I see. > My solution was to provide a background color for the entire > Expression so that people could see where they are. The other option > would have been to add embedded space, like { xxxx }, or to escape the > curly braces like \{ xxxx \}, but I thought both would actually be > more confusing. I agree. In fact I do not "complain" about the fact that curly braces aren't displayed in the GUI, this is ok for me with your syntax hilighting code. However, in the end-user documentation, we should display the curly-braces expression string (either on a screenshot while editting a question text or relevance field), or as a wiki-text before the screenshot). > I can explain this in documentation so that people won't be confused. Yes that would be great. thx, Thibaukt > > /Tom > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 3:26 AM, Thibault Le Meur > <Thi...@su... <mailto:Thi...@su...>> wrote: > > Le 23/09/2011 06:25, Thomas White, MD, MS, MA a écrit : > > Marcel- > > > > Thanks for the feedback. I'll make sure the HowTos start more > basic. > > However, people don't need IT backgrounds to understand > relevance or > > equations. This is all basic stuff for people doing surveys. > > Regardless, I'll make sure there are basic, intermediate, and > > advanced examples to cover the needs of our user base. > > > > Since it may be a while before a GUI can be developed, I'll also > show > > examples and screen-shots of what syntax errors look like and how > > easily and quickly they can be fixed. > > One thing that may be confusing users: in the screenshots we only see > "if (XXXXX,'A','B')" and not "{if (XXXXX,'A','B')}". It would be > nice to > see how to enter the Expression and then how it is displayed in the > syntax parser. > > My 2 cents, > Thibault > > |