Re: [Libusb-devel] USB VID/PID for open source projects

[Тихомиров В. <int...@ya...>]

> The only solution is to get a VID ($2k one-time) for yourself, or to
> have a group of people set up an organization solely for this purpose
> and while that would not be a problem there will still always be some
> strings attached. For the organization to get some traction there
> will need to be an agreed-upon criteria for pid allocation. 64k is
> many pids, but it's still a finite pool, and there are lots of
> students who create a USB device as part of some course. The
> organization also needs some kind of administration..

The free of charge distribution is not possible. The VID owners always depend on PID users. There is always a stream of PIDs from USB-IF, through developer companies, the VID holders, toward the end (VID/PID) devices users and reverse stream of money. In the case with Microchip and Free Foundation are just indirect schemes of selling PIDs. The single PID cost is included in every device. Therefore, I observe that it is permitted to sell PIDs if you add some piece of silicon with it. User is free to throw you piece of silicon away and use only PID for his purposes. So the silicon may stay purely virtual (or get a not working piece if you additionally pay for its transport). It is mere nonsense to say that if 100 people can pay 100 times less for simply saying that they are "one family" or "one company". 

Why USB-IF demands the impossible nonsense? Why it invalidates most of the PIDs? Because this pushes every developer to buy a new VID from them! All businessmen to this, including "non-commertial" USB-IF. They sell the things but limit their use. It is contradictory: your things must be useful, but limited usability forces users to buy more. The capitalistic profit maximization makes the life on the Earth incredibly difficult, vainly wastes huge resources just for stimulating more sells and profit. 

That is all rationale. If VID holder satisfies too many users, that could be the clients of USB-IF, his activity becomes illegal. The profit-hungry standard owner even does not hesitate to revoke his signed agreements. That is why even Texas Instruments is scared. I wonder how Microchip and Free Foundation have the nerve to operate. The standard organizations must be truly non-commercial (do not depending on the amount of VIDs they sell). It could administrate PIDs as well. The only concern would be the PID depletion, which may happen due to very cheap IDs. But, coercing to buy more VIDs today, USB-IF drives the depletion (though it is smoothed by favouring the big corporations with their end products over small developers). In the ideal world, the students could do their projects without purchasing a new ID, as they do today. As long as their projects do not exit the lab, they can use any PID or one allocated by Federal Commission for shared use, like radio control frequenci
 es. 


>This one has got its VID revoked even though they are still selling...
> http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=92&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=1

Many health to this company. USB-IF go f****! Bomb it, let Livia alone! Yet, they prefer Kaddafi because he limits their profits in Africa.

Val

25.03.2011, 00:19, "Peter Stuge" <pe...@st...>:
> Тихомиров Валентин wrote:
>
>>  I wonder why nobody so far implemented my idea - purchasing a VID
>>  and selling the PIDs.
>
> Somebody has already done this, and have been stopped, because USB-IF
> does not allow selling product ids.
>
>>  Texas Instruments have rejected my request telling that their
>>  agreement does not let them to. I suppose they refer to the VID
>>  ownership right, obtained from USB-IF.
>
> TI is wrong, but I don't think you will succeed in making them change
> their view. The USB-IF allows a VID holder to allocated PIDs to third
> parties, but only free of charge.
>
>
> As for test devices I think it is very important to use different
> vidpids for each actual different device. If it is not the same
> design then it should not have the same vidpid IMO.
>
> //Peter
>
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