From: Daniel S. <ds...@ho...> - 2004-06-30 11:41:57
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dan...@br... wrote: >>>But, I'm having trouble compiling the code in cvs.=20 >>>Is it just me or should it work?=20 >> >>What kind of errors do you get? Of course it should compile, it does=20 >>compile without problems on my fc1 system. >=20 >=20 > I don't remember and I can't check until next week. > But it was when I tried to generate the configure script. > Is there a reason why the configure script is not in cvs or > should it be? >=20 That's just the standard way of doing it. If you check out any module=20 from example the gnome cvs you will see that there is just the=20 autogen.sh script. Executing the following commands will do the same: aclocal autoconf automake autoheader In some cases you have to supply an argument to some of the scripts... >=20 >>I see libmls as a library. I think that only simple applications should= =20 >>be distributed with the library. >=20 >=20 > I think that mra and sra is part of the library. > Only in a slightly different way. > GNU plotutils is done exactly as I would like libmls to be. > You get both a C/C++ API and some CLI utilities. > If you don't program in C/C++ the easiest way to use plotutils is proba= bly to call graph from your application instead of using the API. > I.e. the CLI utilities can be seen as an extension to the library, not = just as applications using the library. > And of course if you are doing something simple and standard you can ju= st use the CLI utilities directly. > Very convenient. >=20 > If you had to install another package to do that it would be much less = so. >=20 In my opinion applications and libraries should be distributed=20 separately. Distributing them together could cause a lot of confusion.=20 For example, I did not know until recently that gnuplot is a library as=20 well as an application. I think the developer will be confused when we talk about executables on=20 the web site. He/she will ask questions: "can libmls be used as a=20 libarary?" and "is it as easy to install as any other library". Also, I believe having applications and libraries in separate packages=20 is the standard today. For example, look at KDE and Gnome. Of course=20 this is a completely other area of applications but I hope you can see=20 my point anyway. >=20 >>If you decide to extend the sra and mra applications I think that you=20 >>should put them in a separate module in the cvs and release them as a=20 >>separate tarball on the libmls website. Also, I really think we need a=20 >>very simple example since the example is the only documentation availab= le. >=20 >=20 > I won't really extend them, more like fix them. I will only replace tod= ays homebrew command line parameter processing with getopt. This will pro= bably make the code simpler and more readable. > I do think mra and sra can serve as simple examples as well, > we only have to add a few more comments in the code :) >=20 Personally I just want the example programs to do the very very basic=20 stuff. I just hate when I come across sample programs that try to do=20 everything a library can do. Such an example does not help me to get=20 started, it just help me when I already know the basics. The thing with=20 sample programs is that it should help you get started, since it's often=20 hard to get started just from the reference documentation. When you know=20 the basics you could take a look at a more advanced example or the docs.=20 Adding getopt stuff just takes the focus away from how to use libmls. Scott, have you got an opinion on any of this? However, at the moment I think that proper documentation on how to set=20 up the measurement equipment is the most important thing to add right now= ... Regards Daniel Sundberg --- http://sumpan.com > /Daniel >=20 >=20 >>--- >>http://sumpan.com >> >> >>>I will change the command line parameter processing to getopt once I=20 >>>can compile the code in cvs. Then mra/sra should support everything=20 >>>libmls supports.=20 >>>=20 >>>I also now think that the impedance measurement tools frd2zma/zma2rlc=20 >>>should be removed, as these are generic tools, and can be used with an= y=20 >>>response measurement software. I have already incorporated these in my= =20 >>>lsp library and I think they fit better there.=20 >>>=20 >>>/Daniel=20 >>>=20 >>> >>> >>>>From: Daniel Sundberg <ds...@ho...>=20 >>>>Date: 2004/06/23 on PM 05:07:55 GMT+02:00=20 >>>>CC: lib...@li...=20 >>>>=C4mne: Re: [Libmls0-developers] RE: libmls-0.3 released=20 >>>> >>>>Hi again!=20 >>>> >>>>As always, one more thing. Daniel: it would be really nice if you=20 >>> >>>could =20 >>> >>> >>>>provide a very short summary of what the different programs in you =20 >>>>lsputils actually does.=20 >>>> >>>>"FRD to ZMA transformer" is not very useful information if you do not= =20 >>>>know what frd and zma is. Of course I might look at the source, which= =20 >>> >>>I =20 >>> >>> >>>>will do anyway, and find out for myself, but a very short and quick =20 >>>>description will get me started a little quicker...:-)=20 >>>> >>>>/Daniel=20 >>>> >>>> >>>>Daniel Sundberg wrote:=20 >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>I have two questions: what is FHT? Fast Hamahard Transform?=20 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Fast Hadamard Transform, I think.=20 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Daniel: did libmls use FHT before and now uses FFT?=20 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Yes, I basically replaced the FHT transform routines from Anders =20 >>>>>>Torger with FFTW.=20 >>>>>>I'm not sure if it would be more correct to call it DFT or FFT=20 >>> >>>though, =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>since it's not N^2 length.=20 >>>>>>But FFTW must use some kind of FFT method anyway since it's so=20 >>> >>>fast.=20 >>> >>> >>>>>Well, I just realized I have studied this in a signal processing =20 >>>>>course... I actually have access to very detailed theory on this =20 >>>>>subject...:-)=20 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>The above also means that the information in the README file is =20 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>longer correct. There is no mic calibration mode anymore, and=20 >>>>>>there must be a loop from the output to the left (reference=20 >>>>>>channel) and the right channel must be used for measurements.=20 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If this is the case we really need some updated documentation,=20 >>> >>>could you =20 >>> >>> >>>>>please patch the README and we will make an updated release.=20 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>And then to my attachment:=20 >>>>>>I have attached the loudspeaker library that I'm working on.=20 >>>>>>I plan to put it on savannah.gnu.org or sourceforge soon, but I=20 >>> >>>would =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>like to have some comments on the code before I do that.=20 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I will try to take a look at this and of course comment if I feel=20 >>> >>>the =20 >>> >>> >>>>>need to...=20 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>My goal with this library, is that it, together with libmls,=20 >>> >>>should be=20 >>> >>> >>>>>>complete enough to replace CALSOD, MLSSA etc. with open source=20 >>> >>>tools.=20 >>> >>> >>>>>>I also want to keep it as portable as possible.=20 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It's all about the GUI today, you know...:-)=20 >>>>> >>>>>Regards=20 >>>>> >>>>>Daniel Sundberg=20 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>The intended audience is:=20 >>>>>>Developers of measurement or loudspeaker software like e.g.=20 >>> >>>gspeakers.=20 >>> >>> >>>>>>Advanced users that would like complete freedom in choosing design = =20 >>>>>>methodology.=20 >>>>>> >>>>>>So it is both a library, to satisfy the first group.=20 >>>>>>And a set of command line utilities using the above library, to =20 >>>>>>satisfy the second group.=20 >>>>>> >>>>>>To make it both as portable and as easily scriptable/customizable=20 >>> >>>as =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>possible the command line utilities should only do one operation=20 >>> >>>each =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>and the only thing requiring potentially hard to port or compile=20 >>> >>>GUI =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>code should be the waveform viewer.=20 >>>>>> >>>>>>Implemented at the moment is:=20 >>>>>>*FRD/ZMA file I/O=20 >>>>>>*Import of ddb speaker data base.=20 >>>>>> As generated and used by:=20 >>>>>> http://www.danbbs.dk/~ko/ubmodel.htm=20 >>>>>>*Partial implementation of the loudspeaker model in:=20 >>>>>> http://www.hal-pc.org/~bwhitejr/btsmodel.zip=20 >>>>>> found here:=20 >>>>>>=20 >>> >>>http://www.geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/Speaker_Design_Equations.html= =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>*Standard filter generator=20 >>>>>>*Ladder filter simulator with file I/O=20 >>>>>>*FRD waveform viewer=20 >>>>>> >>>>>>The waveform viewer can use plotutils or gnuplot and it can=20 >>> >>>display =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>the results from mra/sra.=20 >>>>>>It doesn't require plotutils to compile and it should be very easy=20 >>> >>>to =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>port to other platforms or to embed in other applications.=20 >>>>>> >>>>>>So most of the boring infrastructure things are at least usable=20 >>> >>>and =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>lots of fun remains:=20 >>>>>>Filter/box optimization, spice like simulator and other box types=20 >>> >>>(tl, =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>horn, etc.).=20 >>>>>> >>>>>>When mra/sra has been updated with a bit more options (getopt) it =20 >>>>>>would be very easy to create a graphical front end that would just = =20 >>>>>>launch mra and pass the results to resgraph (the waveform viewer).=20 >>>>>> >>>>>>There are some example scripts in the script directory,=20 >>>>>>both for using plotutils and gnuplot.=20 >>>>>> >>>>>>Regards,=20 >>>>>>Daniel W=20 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>From: Daniel Sundberg <ds...@ho...>=20 >>>>>>>Date: 2004/06/22 ti AM 11:11:57 GMT+02:00=20 >>>>>>>To: lib...@li...=20 >>>>>>>=C4mne: Re: [Libmls0-developers] RE: libmls-0.3 released=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi!=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I have two questions: what is FHT? Fast Hamahard Transform?=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Daniel: did libmls use FHT before and now uses FFT? I am afraid I = =20 >>>>>>>have not been looking very close at the source code lately=20 >>> >>>(mostly =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>since I do not own a decent measurement microphone).=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Also, when some of you start to work on a sample application it=20 >>> >>>might =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>be a good idea to create a separate module in the cvs or create a=20 >>> >>>new =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>project.=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Regards=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Daniel Sundberg=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>dan...@br... wrote:=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi Scott=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>A little while ago Daniel talked about replacing the FHT with =20 >>>>>>>>>another scheme to generate the impulse response, which appears=20 >>> >>>to =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>have been done. Can you confirm that it is as fast as the FHT?=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I don't know if it's as fast as FHT, it's certainly fast enough=20 >>> >>>for =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>desktop computers. I have no idea how they do it, but fftw=20 >>> >>>doesn't =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>seem to be that much slower for n^2-1 fft lengths than n^2=20 >>> >>>lengths.=20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Does the correlation still create a perfect unit response as it = =20 >>>>>>>>>should with the MLS?=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I'm not sure what you mean with a perfect unit response. But I'm = =20 >>>>>>>>sure the new scheme is much more accurate than the FHT. I have =20 >>>>>>>>compared the results from the sweep mode with the MLS mode and=20 >>> >>>they =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>are the same.=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The problem with FHT MLS is that you assume that the soundcard =20 >>>>>>>>doesn't degrade the signal at all. It's in fact even more=20 >>> >>>sensitive =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>to this than you might think. Even with an almost perfectly flat = =20 >>>>>>>>freqency response you will still not get good results with the=20 >>> >>>FHT. =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>I think the FHT should be viewed as a last resort, only to be=20 >>> >>>used =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>when speed is top priority and not accuracy.=20 >>>>>>>>Although some of the FHT problems could be solved with=20 >>> >>>calibration I =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>still don't think you will get as good results as when you=20 >>> >>>correlate =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>in the frequency domain. I'm not sure that the FHT errors are=20 >>> >>>static =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>enough to be effectivly removed with calibration.=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I must get started on a test/demo app.=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I have almost finished a waveform viewer/library that can be=20 >>> >>>used =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>from other appplications, so you might want to wait for that.=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I will make it public as soon as I figure out where to put it.=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>One final thing. If we have upgraded the project name to level=20 >>> >>>1 =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>then I think we need to upgrade the major revision number to 1=20 >>> >>>as =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>well. Perhaps 1.0.=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I agree on this, although I don't think we should go 1.0 until=20 >>> >>>the =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>library is stable.=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>/Daniel=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------=20 >>>>>>>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by The 2004 JavaOne(SM)=20 >>> >>>Conference=20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>Learn from the experts at JavaOne(SM), Sun's Worldwide Java=20 >>> >>>Developer=20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>Conference, June 28 - July 1 at the Moscone Center in San=20 >>> >>>Francisco, CA=20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>REGISTER AND SAVE! http://java.sun.com/javaone/sf Priority Code =20 >>>>>>>>NWMGYKND=20 >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________=20 >>>>>>>>Libmls0-developers mailing list=20 >>>>>>>>Lib...@li...=20 >>>>>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/libmls0-developers=20 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------=20 >>>>>>>This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training.=20 >>>>>>>Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 -=20 >>> >>>digital =20 >>> >>> >>>>>>>self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched = =20 >>>>>>>networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com=20 >>>>>>>_______________________________________________=20 >>>>>>>Libmls0-developers mailing list=20 >>>>>>>Lib...@li...=20 >>>>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/libmls0-developers=20 >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-------------------------------------------------------=20 >>>>>This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training.=20 >>>>>Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 -=20 >>> >>>digital =20 >>> >>> >>>>>self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched =20 >>>>>networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com=20 >>>>>_______________________________________________=20 >>>>>Libmls0-developers mailing list=20 >>>>>Lib...@li...=20 >>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/libmls0-developers=20 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-------------------------------------------------------=20 >>>>This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training.=20 >>>>Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 -=20 >>>>digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches,=20 >>>>unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com=20 >>>>_______________________________________________=20 >>>>Libmls0-developers mailing list=20 >>>>Lib...@li...=20 >>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/libmls0-developers=20 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------- >>This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. >>Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - >>digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, >>unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com >>_______________________________________________ >>Libmls0-developers mailing list >>Lib...@li... >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/libmls0-developers >> >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 |