Re: [Libmesh-devel] Still Really Dislike Automake

[Roy S. <roy...@ic...>]

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018, Derek Gaston wrote:

> Instead of being like: "yeah - you're right, I can see that while I
> like some of the things we got with the new system it does kinda
> blow for some workflows... what are your ideas?"

Actual quotes from me:

>> I still dislike the Automake build system in libMesh.
>
> So do I.

> I'd really love to be able to do out-of-source builds in MOOSE too.
> If "autoderek" handled that (plus "make install"; I don't care as
> much about dist/distcheck) it would be totally worth the switch from
> my point of view.

> There doesn't yet seem to be a build system that doesn't suck, so
> it's not *entirely* ridiculous to envision reinventing the wheel
> here.

> I remember pre-automake libMesh too, and it was certainly better in
> some ways, just much worse in some others.  I still think the move
> to automake was an improvement but we're definitely not at an
> optimum.

And from Paul:

> If you do have the time and your efforts achieve my goals, Roy's
> goals, Ben's goals, your goals, and it's more streamlined for
> everyone, than that would be fucking awesome.

> Of course it's not optimal. There is no optimal build system. Both
> Roy and I's first response to this whole thread was all the build
> systems suck.  This seems to suck the least of what I've seen. If
> there's something that sucks less that still has all the features we
> want, we should try and use that.

> I will be highly reluctant to move away from something that is
> working and has been working for a long time until I'm satisfied
> that features I use and count on are functional. But if you are
> inclined to do it, by all means.

versus imaginary quotes:

> you guys are like
> "Why do you not bow before the almighty Automake!  It is pure GOD
> and shall not be questioned!".

The imaginary people you're arguing with sound like jerks.  If that's
the case,

> Anyway: I'm honestly done with this conversation.

is probably for the best.

I'm not sure how I could have communicated better here.  And that's
just about the basic question of "what does Roy think of automake"!
The failures to communicate about more important questions (e.g.
there elapsed literally 35 minutes between me gushing about
out-of-source builds as a killer feature and you putting out-of-source
builds lowest on the priority list) are more serious, and that was
roughly the point where I started to fear that this was going to be
more of a flame war I should bow out of than a design discussion I
should dive into.

Even Paul's position (would adopt this if his feature list was kept
but doesn't have time or funding to spare on it) is more negative than
mine (We could possibly talk Rich into making it official and
regardless I'm a sucker with my time); if there is a design discussion
in the future I would still like to help.  But this thread has not
been evolving into that one; there's been actual progress we'll want
to unearth from the acrimony later, but "later" should include some
cooling-off time.
---
Roy