Re: [Libmesh-devel] Still Really Dislike Automake

[Paul T. B. <ptb...@gm...>]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 3:02 PM Derek Gaston <fri...@gm...> wrote:

> In general you guys are talking about "features" though: when in my
> estimation the "core" capability of the development cycle is broken.  I
> don't think that maintaining "nice" features is worth it at the cost of
> hurting the main development cycle
> (build->fix->build->fix->add_file->build->fix->test).
>
> I would rather fix the core development cycle - then backfill features
> based on priority (install > check > dist > out-of-tree, etc.).  We
> completely chucked a sane development flow for the sake of a few features
> that are rarely actually used.
>

"Rarely used" is totally and completely wrong. Every single one of those is
a core feature of the build system and a vital part of my entire groups
workflow.


> As for symlinking: that's done so that we can maintain code organization -
> and allow for the "libmesh/" prefix for #includes (namespacing the header
> file names essentially).
>

So why don't just `git mv` them and be done with it?


>
> Derek
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:50 PM Paul T. Bauman <ptb...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> This all got started while I was lecturing for my two undergrad classes,
>> so I'm going to piggy back on Roy's response to start and then reply to
>> some others since history was getting trimmed in some replies.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:28 PM Roy Stogner <roy...@ic...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, Derek Gaston wrote:
>>>
>>> > After all of these years: I still dislike the Automake build system
>>> > in libMesh.
>>>
>>> So do I.
>>>
>>
>> All build systems suck. As Ben pointed out, one advantage with autotools
>> is not having to build the build system. (CMake, SCons, etc.)
>>
>>
>>> > I still can't believe that we threw out a perfectly
>>> > decent build system and saddled ourselves with this thing.
>>>
>>
>> Decent, but feature incomplete.
>>
>>
>>> > In hindsight: do you guys TRULY think it was worth it?
>>>
>>> For install/dist/distcheck targets, and out-of-source builds?  Yeah.
>>>
>>
>> I'll add 'check' target as well, but emphatically yes on all counts.
>> Especially check, install, and out-of-source builds.
>>
>>
>>> > All I'm trying to do right now is add ONE damn header file - and I
>>> > can't seem to find the magic script / sauce to get everything
>>> > updated.  I ran include/rebuild_include_HEADERS.sh ... nope.  I ran
>>> > bootstrap... still nope.  Oh!  Now I remember... I need to run
>>> > include/libmesh/rebuild_makefile.sh... NOPE!
>>>
>>
>> https://github.com/libMesh/libmesh/wiki/Adding-or-removing-source-files
>>
>> Should we put one magic add_files.sh at the top level?
>>>
>>> But the two include shell scripts should have done it... that's always
>>> worked for me.  I guess I usually manually bootstrap afterwards too,
>>> but in my experience automake is smart enough to rerun itself if it
>>> sees Makefile.am newer than Makefile.in.
>>>
>>
>> But I do agree this seems like a needless hassle to symlink the header
>> files. Were we just trying to preserve some transition between svn and git
>> or something? Why not just `git mv` the headers and get rid of the need for
>> symlinking. I'm sure I'm missing something, but I don't remember what it is.
>>
>>
>>> > Ok - 100% serious here.  If I redo the libMesh build system so that
>>> > it's autoconf and make based again - would you guys consider
>>> > switching to it?
>>>
>>> Consider?  Yes.  Anticipate agreeing to with such a high probability
>>> that the work would be worth your time?  No.
>>>
>>
>> Pretty much this.  I don't think it's worth the time because none of the
>> features we have with automake I'm willing to give up.
>>
>>
>>> Except... if you're going full Focus on creating a new build system,
>>> presumably you'd want to put it in MOOSE too...
>>>
>>> And I'd really love to be able to do out-of-source builds in MOOSE
>>> too.  If "autoderek" handled that (plus "make install"; I don't care
>>> as much about dist/distcheck)
>>
>>
>> I disagree, I think dist and distcheck are important. Also `make check`.
>>
>>
>>> it would be totally worth the switch
>>> from my point of view.  You'd still have to convince others though.
>>>
>>> (It's not really graft if I let my decisions get swayed for code
>>> rather than money, right? ...)
>>> ---
>>>
>>
>>> Roy------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>>