Re: [Libmesh-devel] Still Really Dislike Automake

[Derek G. <fri...@gm...>]

BTW: I do realize that supporting both still means that I have to deal with
Automake when modifying libMesh... but I would only have to deal with it at
the _end_ after I'm done working on something.  Not _constantly_ :-)

Derek

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 1:35 PM Derek Gaston <fri...@gm...> wrote:

> I suppose another option is to just support both build systems
> indefinitely.  People who want/need the stuff automake does (out of tree,
> dist, install) can use automake.  Everyone else that just wants to build
> (98%+) can just type "make" and be happy...
>
> Derek
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 1:31 PM Derek Gaston <fri...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:54 AM Roy Stogner <roy...@ic...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, Derek Gaston wrote:
>>>
>>> Should we put one magic add_files.sh at the top level?
>>>
>>
>> I guess?  I still don't understand why these are even necessary - there
>> should just be a build rule for the symlinks!
>>
>>
>>> Except... if you're going full Focus on creating a new build system,
>>> presumably you'd want to put it in MOOSE too...
>>>
>>
>> It already _is_ in MOOSE.  Our build system is pretty awesome.  Now:
>> libMesh doesn't need that level of complexity (we have added complexity for
>> the cascading build capability that doesn't need to be in libMesh) - but
>> the basic ideas are already there.  We even have stuff that I have no idea
>> how you would do with Automake like Unity Builds.
>>
>>
>>> And I'd really love to be able to do out-of-source builds in MOOSE
>>> too.  If "autoderek" handled that (plus "make install"; I don't care
>>> as much about dist/distcheck) it would be totally worth the switch
>>> from my point of view.  You'd still have to convince others though.
>>>
>>
>> This is where we start to have a problem because I just seriously don't
>> see compelling enough reasons for out of tree builds.  It adds a layer of
>> complexity that is annoying - and it's not really compatible with any
>> "in-editor" building (like using Emacs) making it pretty not useful for
>> development.  On the other end, users don't need it at all because they are
>> usually just happy to get something to build for _one_ environment
>> configuration (and many never, ever want to rebuild after that).  I
>> seriously think it's just not worth it.
>>
>> Now, "install" I can see a need for.  I don't personally care about it -
>> but the arguments are convincing enough.  It's something that both
>> developers and users might want to use.
>>
>> In my mind "install" also obviates a lot of the need for out-of-tree
>> builds: if you need multiple configurations built - just install them to
>> different places.
>>
>> If out-of-tree-builds are a requirement: I would like them off by default.
>>
>> Derek
>>
>