On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Kirk, Benjamin (JSC-EG311) <benjamin.kirk-1@nasa.gov> wrote:
Understood, but CI only works when everyone can see results of tests. Libmesh.automake has been passing its tests for months, and Paul and I use it in production.

You and Paul are not average users.
If you want to point users to our trunk we need to see your test results. Period.

Understood - this is the reason I worked quite a bit a while ago on getting a public test service up and running for libMesh.  I didn't find a great solution at that time... and then got pulled off onto other things.  But we need a centralized service that is coordinating builds and receiving back results.  Once the decision is made about where libMesh is going to reside long term, we should look into this again.
Or quit bitching and svn switch them to something blessed - e.g. ^/tags/whatever

Firstly, I do apologize for "bitching".  I am really not trying to come off that way.  I just truly do not think the current changes were for the better... and I don't know what else to do about than to point out reasons why.  If I could, I would just go in there and revert the automake merge instead of "bitching".  As it is, I'm trying to provide information about the rest of the way the world interacts and uses libMesh and other scientific software so that we can constructively come to a system that works better than the automake system.

Let me explain a little more:  I love libMesh.  I think it's an awesome triumph of scientific framework software.  I am constantly in awe at all the thought put into the way the system works.  All of that thought went into creating a library that presents an incredibly useful interface to it's users and enables scientists and engineers to create complex parallel applications.  Because of this, I think the build system should be just as well thought out... and just as easy to interact with.  In the same way that you don't have to be a parallel programming specialist or a computer scientist to use libMesh... I don't think you should need to be a specialist to _build_ libMesh.  I don't want this great piece of software to be overlooked simply because it is difficult to interact with the build system.

As for our users.  They do use a vetted version of _SVN_ libMesh.  They are not pulling from your repo, so they are insulated (for the moment) from these changes.  However, they _will_ use a version from SVN very soon (as soon as either we make a change in libMesh that requires updating... or you guys add some cool features that warrants an update).  They will never use a release version of libMesh.

Sorry for stirring up shit the night before Thanksgiving!  Let me just say: Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!  I really appreciate and am thankful for the opportunity to work (and debate!) with all of you!  ;-)