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LED doesn't seem to make any sense

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timucin
2017-05-28
2017-05-28
  • timucin

    timucin - 2017-05-28

    When I connect an LED and an Ammeter serial to a 9V battery, the Ammeter shows 13.2 kA. If I add a 1 microOhms resistor serial to the rest, the Ammeter shows 4.06 MA. Also the LED has 1.29V between each side and the resistor has 4.06V which doesn't add up to 9V.

    I tried to tweak the LED but the properties I can adjust are breakdown voltage, color, emission coefficent and saturation current none of which seems to change the readings on anything.

    Normally a 9V battery, a standard LED and a 300 Ohms resistor would work in a way that the circuit has around 20 A and the voltage is more or less evenly distributed to the resistor and the LED.

    So what am I doing wrong here? I don't understand.

    Here is the file I saved:

    <!DOCTYPE KTechlab>
    <document type="circuit">
     <item x="-596" y="172" z="4" type="ec/ammeter" id="ammeter" flip="1" angle="90">
      <data type="number" value="0.001" id="0-minValue"/>
      <data type="number" value="1e+07" id="1-maxValue"/>
     </item>
     <item x="-236" y="196" z="7" type="ec/ammeter" id="ammeter__610" flip="0" angle="90">
      <data type="number" value="0.001" id="0-minValue"/>
      <data type="number" value="100000" id="1-maxValue"/>
     </item>
     <item x="-540" y="124" z="8" type="ec/battery" id="cell" flip="1" angle="0">
      <data type="number" value="9.00009" id="voltage"/>
     </item>
     <item x="-132" y="140" z="2" type="ec/battery" id="cell__542" flip="0" angle="180">
      <data type="number" value="9" id="voltage"/>
     </item>
     <item x="-548" y="260" z="0" type="ec/led" id="led" flip="0" angle="0">
      <data type="number" value="1e-15" id="I_S"/>
      <data type="number" value="1" id="N"/>
      <data type="number" value="4.7" id="V_B"/>
      <data type="color" value="#f62a2a" id="0-color"/>
     </item>
     <item x="-124" y="276" z="3" type="ec/led" id="led__551" flip="0" angle="0">
      <data type="number" value="1e-15" id="I_S"/>
      <data type="number" value="1" id="N"/>
      <data type="number" value="4.7" id="V_B"/>
      <data type="color" value="#f62a2a" id="0-color"/>
     </item>
     <item x="-476" y="180" z="1" type="ec/resistor" id="resistor" flip="0" angle="90">
      <data type="number" value="1e-06" id="resistance"/>
     </item>
     <item x="-532" y="340" z="5" type="ec/voltmeter" id="voltmeter" flip="0" angle="0">
      <data type="number" value="0.001" id="0-minValue"/>
      <data type="number" value="1000" id="1-maxValue"/>
     </item>
     <item x="-404" y="188" z="6" type="ec/voltmeter" id="voltmeter__593" flip="0" angle="270">
      <data type="number" value="0.001" id="0-minValue"/>
      <data type="number" value="1000" id="1-maxValue"/>
     </item>
     <connector route="-70,42,-71,42,-72,42,-73,42,-73,41,-73,40,-73,39,-73,38,-73,37,-73,36,-73,35,-73,34,-73,33,-73,32," manual-route="1" end-node-is-child="0" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-id="node1__584" start-node-parent="voltmeter" id="connector" start-node-cid="n1"/>
     <connector route="-64,42,-63,42,-63,41,-63,40,-63,39,-63,38,-64,38,-64,37,-64,36,-64,35,-64,34,-64,33,-64,32," manual-route="0" end-node-is-child="0" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-id="node1" start-node-parent="voltmeter" id="connector__581" start-node-cid="p1"/>
     <connector route="-64,32,-65,32,-66,32,-67,32," start-node-id="node1" end-node-parent="led" manual-route="0" end-node-is-child="1" start-node-is-child="0" end-node-cid="p1" id="connector__583"/>
     <connector route="-75,24,-75,25,-75,26,-75,27,-75,28,-75,29,-75,30,-75,31,-75,32,-74,32,-73,32," manual-route="1" end-node-is-child="0" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-id="node1__584" start-node-parent="ammeter" id="connector__585" start-node-cid="p1"/>
     <connector route="-73,32,-72,32,-71,32," start-node-id="node1__584" end-node-parent="led" manual-route="1" end-node-is-child="1" start-node-is-child="0" end-node-cid="n1" id="connector__586"/>
     <connector route="-51,26,-51,27,-51,28,-51,29,-52,29,-53,29,-54,29,-55,29,-56,29,-57,29,-58,29,-59,29,-60,29," manual-route="0" end-node-is-child="0" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-id="node1__600" start-node-parent="voltmeter__593" id="connector__601" start-node-cid="n1"/>
     <connector route="-60,25,-60,26,-60,27,-60,28,-60,29," manual-route="0" end-node-is-child="0" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-id="node1__600" start-node-parent="resistor" id="connector__602" start-node-cid="p1"/>
     <connector route="-60,29,-60,30,-60,31,-60,32,-61,32,-62,32,-63,32,-64,32," start-node-id="node1__600" manual-route="0" end-node-is-child="0" start-node-is-child="0" end-node-id="node1" id="connector__603"/>
     <connector route="-30,21,-30,20,-30,19,-30,18,-30,17,-29,17,-28,17,-27,17,-26,17,-25,17,-24,17,-23,17,-22,17,-21,17,-20,17,-19,17," end-node-parent="cell__542" manual-route="1" end-node-is-child="1" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-cid="p1" start-node-parent="ammeter__610" id="connector__613" start-node-cid="n1"/>
     <connector route="-30,27,-30,28,-30,29,-30,30,-30,31,-30,32,-30,33,-30,34,-29,34,-28,34,-27,34,-26,34,-25,34,-24,34,-23,34,-22,34,-21,34,-20,34,-19,34,-18,34," end-node-parent="led__551" manual-route="1" end-node-is-child="1" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-cid="n1" start-node-parent="ammeter__610" id="connector__651" start-node-cid="p1"/>
     <connector route="-15,17,-14,17,-13,17,-12,17,-12,18,-12,19,-12,20,-12,21,-12,22,-12,23,-12,24,-12,25,-12,26,-12,27,-12,28,-12,29,-12,30,-12,31,-12,32,-12,33,-12,34,-13,34,-14,34," end-node-parent="led__551" manual-route="0" end-node-is-child="1" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-cid="p1" start-node-parent="cell__542" id="connector__652" start-node-cid="n1"/>
     <connector route="-51,20,-51,19,-51,18,-52,18,-53,18,-54,18,-55,18,-56,18,-57,18,-58,18,-59,18,-60,18,-60,19," end-node-parent="resistor" manual-route="0" end-node-is-child="1" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-cid="n1" start-node-parent="voltmeter__593" id="connector__653" start-node-cid="p1"/>
     <connector route="-70,15,-71,15,-72,15,-73,15,-74,15,-75,15,-75,16,-75,17,-75,18," end-node-parent="ammeter" manual-route="1" end-node-is-child="1" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-cid="n1" start-node-parent="cell" id="connector__656" start-node-cid="p1"/>
     <connector route="-66,15,-65,15,-64,15,-63,15,-62,15,-61,15,-60,15,-60,16,-60,17,-60,18,-60,19," end-node-parent="resistor" manual-route="1" end-node-is-child="1" start-node-is-child="1" end-node-cid="n1" start-node-parent="cell" id="connector__657" start-node-cid="n1"/>
     <node x="-508" y="260" id="node1"/>
     <node x="-580" y="260" id="node1__584"/>
     <node x="-476" y="236" id="node1__600"/>
    </document>
    
     

    Last edit: timucin 2017-05-28
    • zonkmachine

      zonkmachine - 2017-05-28

      2017-05-28 18:01 GMT+02:00 timucin toraman@users.sf.net:

      When I connect an LED and an Ammeter serial to a 9V battery, the Ammeter
      shows 13.2 kA. If I add a 1 nanoOhms resistor serial to the rest, the
      Ammeter shows 4.06 MA. Also the LED has 1.29V between each side and the
      resistor has 4.06V which doesn't add up to 9V.

      A battery has an internal resistance and this should be what you're seeing
      here. I don't have a working installation of ktechlab but there should be a
      way to tweak the resistance or maybe an ideal voltage source you can use
      instead of the battery.

       
      • timucin

        timucin - 2017-05-28

        Also when I think about it, the total resitance on the circuit is so small that the ammeter's resistance may have been taken into account. However that is the least of the problems I have. The main thing that concerns me is that the led has next to zero resistance. This almost makes sense to me since it's a diode but I don't think that is the case with real LEDs

         

        Last edit: timucin 2017-05-28
  • timucin

    timucin - 2017-05-28

    In case anyone else is having the same confusion I found an explanation for this.
    https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/76367/accounting-for-led-resistance/76372#76372?newreg=ae8bec16116449b38b8b3f548d004072

    Turns out LEDs do have a voltage drop but not a constant resistance like resistors. Instead they tend to keep the voltage drop stable.

    That's the reason when the resistor is 1 microOhm the LED also seems to have almost no resistance and the total Resistance becomes so small that the Ammeter has a noticable voltage drop and the current is bigger than the one with only one LED.

     
    • Zoltan P

      Zoltan P - 2017-05-29

      You are correct, the LED (and Diodes, in general), does not have constant resistance. In the example circuit you are practically connecting in parallel two components with try to keep a constant, but different voltages on them.
      In a real-world circuit, either the LED or the voltage source/battery would get burned.

      Please note that for such extreme cases (when you see Mega-Ampers or Mega-Volts or higher in the circuit), probably ktechlab does not simulate the circuit accurately.

       

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