Thread: [Kernow] Kernow 1.6
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From: Andrew W. <and...@gm...> - 2007-12-19 14:40:55
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I've just committed quite a few classes for version 1.6. The new features are an XSLT Sandbox and Florent's Schematron tab. Florent - I've made quite a few changes, including to a lot of your code - I hope this is ok. Im not planning on doing a public release for a day or two as there are still a few small things to do before then. cheers andrew |
From: Florent G. <li...@fg...> - 2007-12-19 16:50:45
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Andrew Welch wrote: Hi > The new features are an XSLT Sandbox Great! I had a quick look at it and this is a great feature. Useful to test XSL-List samples of code :-) > and Florent's Schematron tab. Well, I remember I prototyped it a few months ago, but I don't know if it is really usable. That would require some testing IMHO. The interface is not so great neither (we should provide an implementation within the JAR I think, and reduce the number of fields in the GUI). But I guess this can be somewhat useful as it is? I'll try to see if I have more accurate comments, but I am working in London for now, without my laptop, and I don't have Internet access at the hotel. So I am not sure I will be able to do so before releasing. > Florent - I've made quite a few changes, including to a lot > of your code - I hope this is ok. If they are actually enhancements, there is no problem ;-) > Im not planning on doing a public release for a day or two as > there are still a few small things to do before then. If you want some help, please ask the list. Regards, --drkm _____________________________________________________________________________ Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail http://mail.yahoo.fr |
From: Andrew W. <and...@gm...> - 2007-12-20 09:44:28
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On 19/12/2007, Florent Georges <li...@fg...> wrote: > > The new features are an XSLT Sandbox > > Great! I had a quick look at it and this is a great feature. Useful > to test XSL-List samples of code :-) I've been meaning to add it for ages, but kept trying to use Netbeans EditorKit without any luck. In the end I've just re-used Bounce's XMLEditorKit and its hasn't turned out too bad. > > and Florent's Schematron tab. > > Well, I remember I prototyped it a few months ago, but I don't know > if it is really usable. That would require some testing IMHO. The > interface is not so great neither (we should provide an implementation > within the JAR I think, and reduce the number of fields in the GUI). > > But I guess this can be somewhat useful as it is? I must admit I wasn't going to include it because Schematron's got nothing to do with Saxon... (and I don't really like it and didn't want to appear to endorse it :) but I thought others might find it useful... perhaps see how it goes. > I'll try to see if I have more accurate comments, but I am working in > London for now, Ahh cool - I live in London, I hope you're enjoying it. cheers -- Andrew Welch http://andrewjwelch.com Kernow: http://kernowforsaxon.sf.net/ |
From: Andrew W. <and...@gm...> - 2007-12-20 09:46:51
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On 19/12/2007, Michael M=FCller-Hillebrand <mm...@ca...> wrote: > Are there any new strings to be translated? > > I have now a comfortable SVN client and checked the existing files. > In two files I found encoding errors which I corrected (see hopefully > attached archive). Committing the changes myself did not work, > obviously. Thanks Michael, I'm very grateful. There will be a few more strings once I've coded it properly :) I've been a bit lazy and just written the strings directly in the code rather than referring to the bundles... --=20 Andrew Welch http://andrewjwelch.com Kernow: http://kernowforsaxon.sf.net/ |
From: <mm...@ca...> - 2007-12-20 15:56:09
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Am 19.12.2007 um 15:40 schrieb Andrew Welch: > Im not planning on doing a public release for a day or two as there > are still a few small things to do before then. How is XSLT Sandbox supposed to run? I entered <heute> <morgen></morgen> </heute> in the left pane and clicked Run Transform. The following error pops up: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unknown attribute http://=20 saxon.sf.net/feature/xml-version Does this mean I have to enter the <?XML..> line? Florent: I have no idea os Schematron, but for i18n I'd like to =20 understand what is meant by "Compilation Stylesheet"? Thanks - Michael -- _______________________________________________________________ Michael M=FCller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologien Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker L=F6sungen und Training, FrameScript, XML/XSL, Unicode http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747 |
From: Florent G. <li...@fg...> - 2007-12-20 17:58:01
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Michael Müller-Hillebrand wrote: > in the left pane and clicked Run Transform. The following error pops > up: > java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unknown attribute http:// > saxon.sf.net/feature/xml-version > Does this mean I have to enter the <?XML..> line? That means that your TransformerFactory doesn't know the feature identified by this URI. Are you sure you are using the right version of Saxon (I guess any 9.x should be ok). > Florent: I have no idea os Schematron, but for i18n I'd like to > understand what is meant by "Compilation Stylesheet"? The stylesheet that aims to compile ?-) To give you the big picture, a Schematron schema defines rules using XPath expressions. A traditional way to implement it is to transform the schema to an XSLT stylesheet that will be applied to the input to be validated. Of course, the transformation from the schema to the stylesheet is done with... a stylesheet. That's what I call the "compilation stylesheet" (to be sure to not mix it up with the generated stylehseet). Regards, --drkm _____________________________________________________________________________ Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail http://mail.yahoo.fr |
From: <mm...@ca...> - 2007-12-20 19:20:58
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Am 20.12.2007 um 18:57 schrieb Florent Georges: >> Florent: I have no idea os Schematron, but for i18n I'd like to >> understand what is meant by "Compilation Stylesheet"? > > The stylesheet that aims to compile ?-) > > To give you the big picture, a Schematron schema defines rules using > XPath expressions. A traditional way to implement it is to transform > the schema to an XSLT stylesheet that will be applied to the input to > be validated. Of course, the transformation from the schema to the > stylesheet is done with... a stylesheet. That's what I call the > "compilation stylesheet" (to be sure to not mix it up with the > generated stylehseet). To repeat it in my words (UI terms in quotes): A Schematron schema ("Schema") is [step 1] =BBcompiled=AB via XSLT (using the "Compilation Stylesheet") into an XSL stylesheet ("Compiled Schema") which in turn [step 2] can be used to validate an XML document ("XML Input"). Am I right to assume that the third field ("Schema") defines the =20 position and file name of the output of [step 1] and is immediately =20 used for [step 2]? So, wouldn't it be more precise to call the first field "Schematron =20 schema" and the third field "XML Schema" or "Generated XML Schema"? [I assume, this is only one way of applying/processing Schematron =20 schemas, and there could be others, but others would not make any =20 sense in the context of Kernow?] It might be a good idea to provide some samples files for all the =20 cool Kernow applications to show-off their power, even to the =20 uninitiated like me :-) - Michael -- _______________________________________________________________ Michael M=FCller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologien Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker L=F6sungen und Training, FrameScript, XML/XSL, Unicode http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747 |
From: Andrew W. <and...@gm...> - 2007-12-21 10:38:21
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On 20/12/2007, Michael M=FCller-Hillebrand <mm...@ca...> wrote: > A Schematron schema ("Schema") > is [step 1] =BBcompiled=AB via XSLT (using the "Compilation Stylesheet") > into an XSL stylesheet ("Compiled Schema") > which in turn [step 2] can be used to > validate an XML document ("XML Input"). > > Am I right to assume that the third field ("Schema") defines the > position and file name of the output of [step 1] and is immediately > used for [step 2]? > > So, wouldn't it be more precise to call the first field "Schematron > schema" and the third field "XML Schema" or "Generated XML Schema"? > > [I assume, this is only one way of applying/processing Schematron > schemas, and there could be others, but others would not make any > sense in the context of Kernow?] > > It might be a good idea to provide some samples files for all the > cool Kernow applications to show-off their power, even to the > uninitiated like me :-) Isn't the schematron stylesheet called the "skeleton" stylesheet, and is pretty much fixed, so the combo box could contain a default value of: http://www.schematron.com/validators/iso_schematron_skeleton_for_saxon.xsl ...like the validation tab contains default links to the xhtml schema? Does anyone actually use Schematron? --=20 Andrew Welch http://andrewjwelch.com Kernow: http://kernowforsaxon.sf.net/ |
From: Florent G. <li...@fg...> - 2007-12-21 12:40:02
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Andrew Welch wrote: > Isn't the schematron stylesheet called the "skeleton" > stylesheet, Not exactly. The skeleton walks the schema in a structured way that correspond to the Schematron semantics, performs some checks, compute some values, and send events (template calls) while it is doing so (with simple default templates for each event). It is aimed to be imported in another stylesheet that will override the default templates to handle events in another way (so the generated stylesheet will produce SVRL, or HTML, or text, or...) > and is pretty much fixed, so the combo box could contain a > default value of: >http://www.schematron.com/validators/iso_schematron_skeleton_for_saxon.xsl > ...like the validation tab contains default links to the > xhtml schema? That's a good idea. But I would use instead the concrete stylesheets, as for instance the one for SVRL: http://www.schematron.com/resource/iso_svrl.xsl Maybe they would be worth included in the JAR. Actually, when you have a Schematron implementation, I think you rarely change it. So it could maybe be worth getting the Schematron tab lighter by putting this as an option (either by providing a global option to define the stylesheet to use or allowing to define several named stylesheets). > Does anyone actually use Schematron? Yup, sir. I found it *very* useful at least on one of my professional projects. Regards, --drkm _____________________________________________________________________________ Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail http://mail.yahoo.fr |
From: <mm...@ca...> - 2007-12-21 14:23:14
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Am 21.12.2007 um 13:39 schrieb Florent Georges: >> Does anyone actually use Schematron? > > Yup, sir. I found it *very* useful at least on one of my > professional projects. During this discussion, I ask myself, whether Schematron might be =20 useful for something like this: * There is a DTD/Schema * There is a sample XML document Is it possible to create a Schematron schema to test if the sample =20 XML document really contains all combinations of elements that are a) possible by the DTD/Schema definition (limited in depth of =20 recursion) or b) necessary for some down-the-stream processing? My application for that: When creating XSL stylesheets for HTML =20 generation I often ask myself, if the sample document contains enough =20= data so that future documents will be processed equally successfully. - Michael -- _______________________________________________________________ Michael M=FCller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologien Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker L=F6sungen und Training, FrameScript, XML/XSL, Unicode http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747 |
From: Florent G. <dar...@ya...> - 2007-12-23 21:17:48
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Michael Müller-Hillebrand wrote: > During this discussion, I ask myself, whether Schematron might > be useful for something like this: > * There is a DTD/Schema > * There is a sample XML document > Is it possible to create a Schematron schema to test if the sample > XML document really contains all combinations of elements that are > a) possible by the DTD/Schema definition (limited in depth of > recursion) or > b) necessary for some down-the-stream processing? I don't think Schematron is the most appropriated. Basically, you use Schematron to write some assertions as XPath expressions that must be always true (in a word, they are assertions :-p) within an XML instance. Regards, --drkm _____________________________________________________________________________ Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail http://mail.yahoo.fr |
From: Florent G. <li...@fg...> - 2007-12-21 12:22:27
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Michael Müller-Hillebrand wrote: > To repeat it in my words (UI terms in quotes): > A Schematron schema ("Schema") > is [step 1] »compiled« via XSLT (using the "Compilation > Stylesheet") > into an XSL stylesheet ("Compiled Schema") > which in turn [step 2] can be used to > validate an XML document ("XML Input"). Correct. > Am I right to assume that the third field ("Schema") > defines the position and file name of the output of [step > 1] and is immediately used for [step 2]? I am not sure what you mean by "position", but yes, that's the result of the first step and is the stylesheet used in the second step. > So, wouldn't it be more precise to call the first field > "Schematron schema" and the third field "XML Schema" or > "Generated XML Schema"? In the Schematron tab, "Schematron Schema" or "Schema" should mean exactly the same thing. But I don't see why you want to call the result of the first step "XML Schema". All documents (even the XSLT stylesheets) used or produced in this tab are XML documents. > [I assume, this is only one way of applying/processing > Schematron schemas, and there could be others, but others > would not make any sense in the context of Kernow?] There could be others, yes, but... 1/ There's one XSLT implementation freely available. 3/ This is clearly the easiest way to implement Schematron IMHO. 2/ Kernow is about XSLT and XQuery processing. So if you implemented Schematron with something else, Andrew would remove this tab ;-) > It might be a good idea to provide some samples files for > all the cool Kernow applications to show-off their power, > even to the uninitiated like me :-) Yes, maybe. The fashionest thing today to show program's features is to make screencasts. Any volunteer ?-) Regards, --drkm _____________________________________________________________________________ Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail http://mail.yahoo.fr |
From: <mm...@ca...> - 2007-12-21 14:42:41
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Am 21.12.2007 um 13:22 schrieb Florent Georges: >> A Schematron schema ("Schema") >> is [step 1] =BBcompiled=AB via XSLT (using the "Compilation >> Stylesheet") >> into an XSL stylesheet ("Compiled Schema") >> which in turn [step 2] can be used to >> validate an XML document ("XML Input"). > > Correct. So what now is labelled "Compiled Schema" is an XSL stylesheet. Could =20= it be named "Validation Stylesheet" or "Compiled Validation Stylesheet"? >> It might be a good idea to provide some samples files for >> all the cool Kernow applications to show-off their power, >> even to the uninitiated like me :-) > > Yes, maybe. The fashionest thing today to show program's > features is to make screencasts. Any volunteer ?-) I guess this does not apply to programmer's tools. A set of sample =20 files would allow a quick test and give (me) the chance to see what's =20= behind all this. Anyway, I have the tools to create such a demo, but =20 I would need sample files anyway... :-) - Michael -- _______________________________________________________________ Michael M=FCller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologien Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker L=F6sungen und Training, FrameScript, XML/XSL, Unicode http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747 |
From: Andrew W. <and...@gm...> - 2007-12-20 16:01:28
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On 20/12/2007, Michael M=FCller-Hillebrand <mm...@ca...> wrote: > How is XSLT Sandbox supposed to run? I entered > > <heute> > <morgen></morgen> > </heute> > > in the left pane and clicked Run Transform. The following error pops up: > > java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unknown attribute http:// > saxon.sf.net/feature/xml-version > > Does this mean I have to enter the <?XML..> line? That's an odd one, it should be fine - you probably need the rest of the latest jars, I'll send you an email separately. --=20 Andrew Welch http://andrewjwelch.com Kernow: http://kernowforsaxon.sf.net/ |
From: <mm...@ca...> - 2007-12-20 16:13:12
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Am 20.12.2007 um 17:01 schrieb Andrew Welch: >> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unknown attribute http:// >> saxon.sf.net/feature/xml-version >> >> Does this mean I have to enter the <?XML..> line? > > That's an odd one, it should be fine - you probably need the rest of > the latest jars, I'll send you an email separately. Fixed now! - Michael -- _______________________________________________________________ Michael M=FCller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologien Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker L=F6sungen und Training, FrameScript, XML/XSL, Unicode http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747 |