jsynthlib-devel — Mailing list for developers and users interested in improving the JSynthLib.

Re: JSL 1.0 and 2.0 (Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] Anyone here ever used any other librarian programs?)

[Hiroo H. <hir...@co...>]

Joe> >Joe> Also, is there any reason why we couldn't provide a converter (which 
Joe> >Joe> would have the old classes in their old locations) to convert from the 
Joe> >Joe> current format to some new one?
Joe> >Do you have any good way to solve the problem?
Joe> >  
Joe> >
Joe> Other than supplying a converter? No.

I meant "did you have any actual solution to supplying a converter?"
According to Bill, it's easy.  No problem.  Please go ahead.
-- 
Hiroo Hayashi

Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] FW: Re: What is the JSL way to deal with negative param values?

[Bill Z. <wrz...@po...>]

Steven Schmidt wrote:

> I’ve been casting it as a byte and while it seems to work up to a point – I’m not getting the negative values to display.     
>
> I thought it should work the way I’m doing it, but it stops at zero.  Please have a look at this snippet and make recommendations if you can:   
>
> The purpose of this method is to subtract the max value for the widget if the param value is greater than the max value.   
>
You realize that "the math" prints get()+max-max, which is the same as 
rawval? So if rawval has the right value, then you don't have a problem. 
What is the value for min and max? If max is less than zero but the 
spinner control itself won't go negative, then we have a bug. Try using 
a SliderWidget, I know those work.

-Bill

[Jsynthlib-devel] Re: patchlib file format (was JSL 1.0 and 2.0)

[Bill Z. <wrz...@po...>]

Hey looky, I have two cents too!  Here's my suggestion:

<patchlib>
  <patch synth="CZ" name="fatlottagood">
    <description>sounds like that sound from the song about the people 
.. y'know the one</description>
    <field1>CZ401A</field1>
    <field2>CZ401.SYX</field2>
    <field name="author">Mr. Bill</field>
    <data>
      6238768263917634762873
      7169374619384612387468
      1349061032964912734883
    </data>
  </patch>
  <etc./>
</patch>

We can use <author> or <field name="author"> as the mood strikes us; the 
former requires we update the schema (assuming we maintain a schema at 
all) while the latter allows new fields to be freely introduced.

<data> can be base 16 or 64 or something, and is generated by the Driver 
superclass.  Sub-classes can override and provide a human-readable XML 
element tree if they really want.  The synth's name for the patch would 
be embedded in <data>; whether <patch name> has the same value is optional.

I haven't used banks, but they'd probably look like
  <bank synth=".." name="..">
    <patch name> .. </patch>
  </bank>

A scene might look like:
  <scene name="..">
    <patch synth=".." name=".." location="Internal/04"> .. </patch>
  </scene>

Location is a slash-separated series of tokens that define a slot on the 
synth.  The exact tokens are defined by the synth driver.

Converting from the old format is easy.  It's a serialized object 
stream, right?  We can create a converter that deserializes the file, 
then produces the new object model on command.  (We're renaming 
packages; that counts as a new object model.)  You might look into the 
readResolve method, but I don't think that'll be necessary.

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/serialization/spec/input.html#wp5903

Unfortunately, I've no time to code this myself this spring, but I'm 
happy to heckle.  =^p

-Bill

Re: JSL 1.0 and 2.0 (Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] Anyone here ever used any other librarian programs?)

[Hiroo H. <hir...@co...>]

Joe> Perhaps we should start compiling a "wishlist" of changes that we'd li=
ke=20
Joe> to see for version 2. What are all of the things that people would hav=
e=20
Joe> liked to have, but could not because of file format limitations?

The below is a mail I wrote before.  Any text format is fine.  I'm
proposing XML just because we don't have to reinvent a wheel by using
existing libraries.

Joe> Also, is there any reason why we couldn't provide a converter (which=
=20
Joe> would have the old classes in their old locations) to convert from the=
=20
Joe> current format to some new one?
Do you have any good way to solve the problem?


Forwarded by Hiroo Hayashi <hir...@co...>
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
From:    Hiroo Hayashi <hir...@co...>
To:      jsy...@ya...
Date:    Fri, 05 Mar 2004 00:59:56 -0600
Subject: Re: [jsynthlib-dev] encoding for xml driver
----

Hi,

I tried to mean that hash is used by editor internally, and byte array
is used outside of editor (sending/receiving or saving/loading patch).=20
We need only one set of conversion method.

JSynthLib can use a patch name which is independent from the real
patch name used by synth.  Patch name used by synth is not long enough
and machine dependent.  For example the data format for JSynthLib can be;

<patch>
  <name>Drum kit for combo jazz with dark sizzle ride symbal</name>
  <file>RolandTD6_0012.syx</file>
  ...
</patch>=20

There are some more merits.  We can use any length of patch name and
non-ascii characters for patch name.  The patch name used by synth is
one of parameter which editor can edit.  We can specify a name for a
bank patch of which a synth cannot have a name.  Librarian does not have
to know anything about the patch format.  XML is not a good language for
binary data (patch data). Binary data is saved in a standard binary file
(raw binary file).  The binary file can be used by other software tools
(ex. cat XXX >/dev/midi :-)).

Rib>> In either way XML driver have to encode to or decode from byte
Rib>> array.  I understand "1" means that XML driver keeps the state
Rib>> of all parameters in byte array and every time it access one of
Rib>> parameters, it have to do conversion.  And "2" or "3" keeps the
Rib>> state of palates in natural format, and conversion is done only
Rib>> before send (or save) patch and after receive (or load) patch.

=2E..

Rib> A hash is a very good idea!  However, I hadn't thought about saving.=
=20
Rib> It seems like we wouldn't want to save these hash maps, but we do
Rib> want to save the information like which patch class handles the patch
Rib> data, and what data goes in which message for a multi-message patch.=
=20
Rib> Also, the librarian only needs to be able to access the name of the
Rib> patch.  The other parameters are only accessed from the editor.=20
Rib> Maybe the XML driver should have two patch classes - one that stores
Rib> the byte arrays and knows how to en/decode the name for the library
Rib> and another that stores all the info in a map that's only passed to
Rib> the editor.  This way the user doesn't have to wait for possibly
Rib> thousands of parameters to be decoded just to change the name. Both
Rib> would follow the same interface, so nothing but the driver really
Rib> should need to know that this was going on.
--=20
Hiroo Hayashi

--=20
Hiroo Hayashi

Re: JSL 1.0 and 2.0 (Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] Anyone here ever used any other librarian programs?)

[Joe E. <jo...@em...>]

Hiroo Hayashi wrote:

>Your note reminds me that I proposed file format change when I realized
>the restriction of the Serializable classes.
>As you wrote, we have to change the file format before changing package
>restructuring.
>  
>
Perhaps we should start compiling a "wishlist" of changes that we'd like 
to see for version 2. What are all of the things that people would have 
liked to have, but could not because of file format limitations?

Also, is there any reason why we couldn't provide a converter (which 
would have the old classes in their old locations) to convert from the 
current format to some new one?

- Joe

Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] Re: [Jsynthlib-cvs] [CVS] JSynthLib/core

[Bill Z. <wrz...@po...>]

Hiroo Hayashi wrote:

>Hi Bill,
>
>I'm afraid that this change might break existing drivers.  How did you
>confirm it did not?
>
>billzwicky> Date:	Saturday March 19, 2005 @ 13:38
>billzwicky> Author:	billzwicky
>billzwicky> 
>billzwicky> Update of /cvsroot/jsynthlib/JSynthLib/core
>billzwicky> In directory sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net:/tmp/cvs-serv6388/core
>billzwicky> 
>billzwicky> Modified Files:
>billzwicky> 	ScrollBarLookupWidget.java 
>billzwicky> Log Message:
>billzwicky> Value range now corresponds to the string list.  i.e. If the range -2,+2 is given, then the first string will have the value -2.
>  
>

I searched all uses of ScrollBarLookup, and found that all instances 
have a min value of zero.  Logically, it made no sense for min to be 
non-zero before the patch, so I felt safe making this patch.

-Bill

Re: JSL 1.0 and 2.0 (Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] Anyone here ever used any other librarian programs?)

[Hiroo H. <hir...@co...>]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:59:09 -0800
Rib Rdb <ri...@gm...> wrote:

Rib> I've recently realized that moving Serializable classes to a different
Rib> package will break file format compatibility.  The full class name is
Rib> stored in the file, so that class has to exist for the file to be
Rib> loaded.  We could work around this by placing a special proxy class in
Rib> the old location, but this seems ugly to me.  If we have plans to
Rib> change the file format, perhaps we should wait to move any classes
Rib> saved in patchlib's or scenelibs until then.

Your note reminds me that I proposed file format change when I realized
the restriction of the Serializable classes.
As you wrote, we have to change the file format before changing package
restructuring.
-- 
Hiroo Hayashi

[Jsynthlib-devel] several changes

[Hiroo H. <hir...@co...>]

Hi,

I checked in some changes yesterday.  Important ones are;

1. fix for the zero div bug of JSLDesktop.getDefautLocation.
2. make use of pull down menu for delete driver and property instead of
buttons.
3. add mouse wheel support for scrollbar widgets.
-- 
Hiroo Hayashi

Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] Bug: JSLDesktop.java

[Hiroo H. <hir...@co...>]

Hi,

I've checked in the fix for this bug on CVS head yesterday.

Thank you for your report.

Ton> I discovered a bug in JSLDesktop.getDefaultLocation.
Ton> Maybe this bug has been reported in the past.
=2E..
Ton> The screen height and frame height are the same and yofs=3D0, so a=20
Ton> division by zero occurs.
Ton> Whenever you code a division you have to check if the denominator is z=
ero.
Ton>=20
Ton> Regards,
Ton> Ton Holsink
--=20
Hiroo Hayashi

[Jsynthlib-devel] FW: Re: What is the JSL way to deal with negative param values?

[Steven S. <ste...@co...>]

Methinks this went to the wrong list

 

  _____  

From: Steven Schmidt [mailto:ste...@co...] 
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:36 AM
To: 'jsy...@li...'
Subject: Re: What is the JSL way to deal with negative param values?

 

I've been casting it as a byte and while it seems to work up to a point -
I'm not getting the negative values to display.  
I thought it should work the way I'm doing it, but it stops at zero.  Please
have a look at this snippet and make recommendations if you can:
The purpose of this method is to subtract the max value for the widget if
the param value is greater than the max value.
 
public static SpinnerWidget dynaSpinner(String label, IPatch patch, int min,
int max, int base, 
                       IParamModel pmodel, ISender sender) { 
        String pt = patch.getByteArray().toString();
        
        int rawval =   pmodel.get();
        int prelimval = (byte)pmodel.get()+ max & 0x7F;
        System.out.println("rawval:"+ rawval+"  prelimval:"+prelimval);
        if (rawval > max)  { 
               base = -max;
               System.out.println("      BASE:"+base + "     The
math:"+(prelimval + base));  
               SpinnerWidget spinner = new SpinnerWidget (label, patch, min,
max, base, pmodel, sender);
        }
        SpinnerWidget spinner = new SpinnerWidget (label, patch, min, max,
base, pmodel, sender);
        
        return spinner;
        }
 
}
This outputs:

rawval:126  prelimval:10

      BASE:-12     The math:-2
-2 is the correct value, but the spinner widget actually displays a '0' -
apparently getting stuck at 0.
Help!!!
 
Bill Zwicky wrote:
> Note that this goofiness is on top of the fact that your synth has 
> probably scrambled the bytes a little to get around the restrictions of 
> the sysex message.  So you need to deal with that, on top of dealing 
> with signed bytes.

 

 

[Jsynthlib-devel] Re: [Jsynthlib-cvs] [CVS] JSynthLib/core

[Hiroo H. <hir...@co...>]

Hi Bill,

I'm afraid that this change might break existing drivers.  How did you
confirm it did not?

billzwicky> Date:	Saturday March 19, 2005 @ 13:38
billzwicky> Author:	billzwicky
billzwicky> 
billzwicky> Update of /cvsroot/jsynthlib/JSynthLib/core
billzwicky> In directory sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net:/tmp/cvs-serv6388/core
billzwicky> 
billzwicky> Modified Files:
billzwicky> 	ScrollBarLookupWidget.java 
billzwicky> Log Message:
billzwicky> Value range now corresponds to the string list.  i.e. If the range -2,+2 is given, then the first string will have the value -2.
-- 
Hiroo Hayashi

[Jsynthlib-devel] How does PatchEditorFrame determine if a patch has changed?

[Joe E. <jo...@em...>]

I'm trying to write my first editor and I've got a wierd problem.

Even when I open the editor and immediately close it, it asks me what to 
do with the "changed" patch. I'm not sure how PatchEditorFrame is 
deciding that the patch changed.

Any help?

- Joe

Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] What is the JSL way to deal with negative param values?

[Bill Z. <wrz...@po...>]

Steven Schmidt wrote:

> > * In Java, bytes are signed.   So if the range is 0..255 before, 
> > casting it to a (Byte) will change that to -128..127.  Thus, reading 
> > patch.sysex[index] may yield negative numbers.  I had to compensate in 
> > my CZModel.getByte.
> 
> This is what I want.  How can I get this behavior in a model class?
>
>  
>
You get it all for free.  Bytes are already signed, so if your numbers 
are in the range -128..127,  things will just work.  You can read and 
write patch.sysex[index], and you'll get what you expect.  If instead 
your values are 128..255, then things will half work -- you can write to 
patch.sysex[index] just fine, but when you read it back, it will be in 
the range -128..127.

Note that this goofiness is on top of the fact that your synth has 
probably scrambled the bytes a little to get around the restrictions of 
the sysex message.  So you need to deal with that, on top of dealing 
with signed bytes.

The easiest way to learn is to just do it, see where it breaks, then get 
help with that.  Don't be afraid, it's only code!

-Bill

Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] What is the JSL way to deal with negative param values?

[Joe E. <jo...@em...>]

Steven Schmidt wrote:

>>Two things to watch out for:
>>    
>>
> > * In Java, bytes are signed.   So if the range is 0..255 before, 
> > casting it to a (Byte) will change that to -128..127.  Thus, reading 
> > patch.sysex[index] may yield negative numbers.  I had to compensate in 
> > my CZModel.getByte.
> 
> This is what I want.  How can I get this behavior in a model class?
>  
>
Hmmm.... strange.

You might have a problem. Since your sysex spec uses C4 (-60) through 0C 
(12), the numbers match up (as opposed to, say, 0x00 to represent -60 
and 0x49 to represent 12) so that the widget/param-model doesn't have to 
add/subtract anything to the number before it stores it. The only tricky 
part is if the widgets will try to store negative values... and if the 
param-models handle it correctly.

I might take a look later.

- Joe

RE: [Jsynthlib-devel] What is the JSL way to deal with negative param values?

[Steven S. <ste...@co...>]

> Two things to watch out for:
 > * In Java, bytes are signed.   So if the range is 0..255 before, 
 > casting it to a (Byte) will change that to -128..127.  Thus, reading 
 > patch.sysex[index] may yield negative numbers.  I had to compensate in 
 > my CZModel.getByte.
 
 This is what I want.  How can I get this behavior in a model class?


-----Original Message-----
From: jsy...@li...
[mailto:jsy...@li...] On Behalf Of Steven
Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 6:00 PM
To: jsy...@li...
Subject: [Jsynthlib-devel] What is the JSL way to deal with negative param
values?

Hello -
When a parameter has values in a range of say, -60 to +12 represented in 
the sysex as C4 to 0C, are there existing methods that understand those 
values?  Is anyone aware of a synth editor that deals with this type of 
data?
Thanks -
Steve



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[Jsynthlib-devel] Re: Jsynthlib-devel digest, Vol 1 #138 - 5 msgs

[Sean S. <Sea...@Su...>]

Thank for the replies, I'll see what I can do on fixing/extending the 
matrix6 and nord lead (I have a nord lead II) support.  I'll open 
tickets if appropriate and put things back for review when/if I've 
managed to get anything working.

For the Nord Lead patches I dump and send the sysex now to/from my 
sequencer and the patches are sent to the edit buffer of each slot 
without overwriting anything in memory.  I'll try to get something 
similar going here.  Perhaps the nord lead I was different though.

Sean


jsy...@li... wrote:

> Send Jsynthlib-devel mailing list submissions to
> 	jsy...@li...
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsynthlib-devel
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	jsy...@li...
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	jsy...@li...
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Jsynthlib-devel digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. AW: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things (Joachim Backhaus)
>    2. Re: matrix6 and other dev things (Brian)
>    3. Re: matrix6 and other dev things (Brian)
>    4. What is the JSL way to deal with negative param values? (Steven Schmidt)
>    5. OT: Ideas for rackmount multi-effects unit (Joe Emenaker)
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 1
> Subject: AW: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:46:39 +0100
> From: "Joachim Backhaus" <jba...@pi...>
> To: <jsy...@li...>
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Matrix 6 support is already there (also in Version 0.18). :)
> 
> If you plan support for the Nord Lead, please open a feature
> request on the JSynthLib Tracker in SourceForge:
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=3D430007&group_id=3D41208&func=3Dbro=
> wse
> 
> You can also post the progress and your code there. :)
> 
> Regards,
> J. Backhaus
> 
> 
>>-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>>Von: jsy...@li...
>>[mailto:jsy...@li...]Im=20
>>Auftrag von Sean
>>Scott
>>Gesendet: Montag, 21. M=E4rz 2005 19:13
>>An: jsy...@li...; jsy...@ov...
>>Betreff: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things
>>=20
>>=20
>>Hi,
>>=20
>>Is anyone working on Matrix6 and/or Nord Lead enhancements? If not I=20
>>might be able to sign up to do some.  I don't have any Java=20
>>or C++ exp.=20
>>but I do a lot of C programming and know some people at Sun. =20
>>Of course=20
>>I don't have much time but who does?
>>=20
>>I also appreciate the opensource nature of this project, and=20
>>think it's=20
>>great that you wrote this program for people to use wihtout trying to=20
>>gain (man I love GNU sometimes).
>>=20
>>If you're interested in the details of my testing then read on - I'm=20
>>away from my studio at the moment but I did some testing with=20
>>the 0.18=20
>>jSynthLib and saw the following:
>>=20
>>This is all dome on Mac OSX 10.3.4
>>=20
>>$ java -version
>>java version "1.4.2_03"
>>Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build=20
>>1.4.2_03-117.1)
>>Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-34, mixed mode)
>>=20
>>=20
>>Testing Conducted on a Matrix 6 ->
>>=20
>>Strange behaviour + enhancements:
>>=20
>>	- Main Window - drop-down menus tend to disappear and have to be
>>	  		reselected to get at the menu contents.
>>		      - would be nice to be able to type the patch
>>			number or select it from the list (faster).
>>		      - turned my trash icon into a java icon...
>>	- Edit Window - sometimes the sliders don't appear.
>>	  	      - values cannot be entered via text in the boxes.
>>		      - values seem to do what they should on synth
>>		        after being stored (good!).
>>	- Bank Support - I could look into adding it if I knew the
>>			 format, I could probably use the 1000 as a
>>			 reference and compare to the Matrix6 dump using
>>			 a hex editor.
>>=09
>>	- Patch Get   - recognises the patches as being from a=20
>>Matrix6	=09
>>			(good!).
>>		      - Matrix6 only sends sysex on MIDI 1 for some
>>			reason (synth issue/feature).
>>		      - the Patch Name is all unrecognised characters.
>>		      - changing the patch name sort of works (as long
>>			as all capital letters are used).
>>	- Patch Edit/Store - Modifying the parameters seems to work.
>>			   - the click option for DCO's does nothing (no
>>			     sound, is synth issue?).
>>			   - the DCO source check boxes should be
>>			     exclusive not additive (wave + pulse +
>>			     noise) - I think but maybe I'm wrong.
>>=09
>>	!!! - after getting a patch (sucessfully) I can send it to
>>	      Matrix6 (sucessfully but using MIDI ch 1 again).
>>	    - can edit the patch (but see some strangeness as above).
>>	    - can still send it to Matrix6 and it seems to work OK.
>>	    - but trying to 'get' the sent patch has problems JSynthLib
>>	      tells me that it is not in Matrix6 format but it's
>>	      "probably an Oberheim patch" (I guess Oberheim used
>>	      a weird format).  So something is not working right.
>>	      May just be the PatchName but I'm not sure yet.
>>=20
>>Nord Lead ->
>>=20
>>	I see that only the edit buffer of slot1 is used for the
>>	patches, would it be useful to have a setting in JSynthLib that
>>	will send to any slot?  I think it's just a field in=20
>>the systex 		data=20
>>that picks the slot.
>>=20
>>	In the Nord L2 manual the sysex info says the data can be sent
>>	to the edit buffer or slots 1-4 (via values 0-5).  I'll check
>>	which one JSynthLib uses but I think the 0 (current=20
>>edit buffer =09
>>	is likely what it is).  Was there a problem using the slot
>>	numbers?
>>=20
>>=20
>>So perhaps I can contribute.  I know anything about Java dev=20
>>but I think=20
>>all the basic tools (javec etc.) are already in OSX so that's=20
>>a start.=20
>>I have also grabbed a copy of your programming ref. page.
>>=20
>>Thanks again and sorry for the very long mail.  (PS I just downloaded=20
>>the .20 version and will try all this again once I'm back=20
>>near my gear).
>>=20
>>--=20
>>Sean Scott
>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Email: Sea...@su...         | Sun Microsystems
>>Phone: +44-(0)xxxxxxxxxxx or xxxxxx | 55 King William Street
>>Fax:   +44-(0)xxxxxxxxxxx           | London, EC4 9HX
>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>=20
>>=20
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>>_______________________________________________
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>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsynthlib-devel
>>=20
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:30:21 -0500
> From: Brian <br...@ov...>
> To: jsy...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Please go ahead and make any improvements you feel the editors need.
> 
> The Matrix6 Librarian/Editor was written by me, but I only own a 
> Matrix1000 so I could never test it fully. I am no longer actively 
> working on it so feel free to make any improvements and fix any bugs you 
> find.
> I believe the NordLead should be in a similar state.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Brian Klock
> 
> Sean Scott wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>Is anyone working on Matrix6 and/or Nord Lead enhancements? If not I 
>>might be able to sign up to do some.  I don't have any Java or C++ 
>>exp. but I do a lot of C programming and know some people at Sun.  Of 
>>course I don't have much time but who does?
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:32:44 -0500
> From: Brian <br...@ov...>
> To: jsy...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things
> 
> 
>>Nord Lead ->
>>
>>    I see that only the edit buffer of slot1 is used for the
>>    patches, would it be useful to have a setting in JSynthLib that
>>    will send to any slot?  I think it's just a field in the 
>>systex         data that picks the slot.
>>
>>    In the Nord L2 manual the sysex info says the data can be sent
>>    to the edit buffer or slots 1-4 (via values 0-5).  I'll check
>>    which one JSynthLib uses but I think the 0 (current edit buffer    
>>    is likely what it is).  Was there a problem using the slot
>>    numbers?
> 
> 
> 
> There is no problem with using slot numbers, and the Patch - > Store 
> menu option is used for storing to any slot. The purpose of "send" is 
> supposed to be a nondestructive "Move this patch over from the computer 
> to the synth's edit buffer so we can hear what it sounds like" function. 
> It is not supposed to actually store to any location. However certain 
> synths such as this Nord Lead lack true midi accessable edit buffers. In 
> this case we usually just sacrifice one of the synth's memory
> spaces to treat as an edit buffer.
> 
> Brian Kklock
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:59:32 -0500
> From: Steven Schmidt <ste...@co...>
> To:  jsy...@li...
> Subject: [Jsynthlib-devel] What is the JSL way to deal with negative param values?
> 
> Hello -
> When a parameter has values in a range of say, -60 to +12 represented in 
> the sysex as C4 to 0C, are there existing methods that understand those 
> values?  Is anyone aware of a synth editor that deals with this type of 
> data?
> Thanks -
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:36:58 -0800
> From: Joe Emenaker <jo...@em...>
> To: JSynthLib Development <jsy...@li...>
> Subject: [Jsynthlib-devel] OT: Ideas for rackmount multi-effects unit
> 
> This is a MIME-formatted message.  If you see this text it means that your
> E-mail software does not support MIME-formatted messages.
> 
> --=_fruitpie-3141-1111534658-0001-2
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Okay... this is off-topic, I know... but you all seem to be geeky 
> tech-head musicians, and that's the audience that I want to get ideas 
> from. If you don't want me to ever ask a question like this on the JSL 
> list again, let me know.
> 
> I'm looking for a (probably) rackmount effects unit for two vocal 
> channels in my band. It would be nice to have more than two effects 
> (like... compression, reverb, and chorus) per channel, but just two is 
> acceptable. I say "per channel", because we'd want different effects on 
> each channel. So... a total of four effects total is a minimum requirement.
> 
> Getting two, separate, effects units is not out of the question. Also, 
> I'm trying to do this as cheaply as possible, so don't suggest a 
> tcHelicon VoiceLive. :) I'm trying to do this for less than $200.
> 
> One unit which I have used in the past and am very intrigued by is the 
> Ensoniq DP/4. It has 4 effects processors and four inputs and four 
> outputs. You can configure it in all kinds of ways. You can use just one 
> mono input and have it go through all four of the processors (in series 
> or parallel or some combination of it) and out outputs 1 and 2. You can 
> have two mono inputs each use two processors and come out two pairs of 
> outputs (what I'd use it as)., or each input go through a single 
> processor and out a single output, etc. It's pretty tricky to figure out 
> what's going on, but it's very flexible. Problem is.... they're not very 
> plentiful nor cheap. Every now and then, one will close on ebay for less 
> than $200.
> 
> Whatever I get, it would be nice if it had "mono split", meaning that it 
> can treat the L/R inputs as two mono signals (so I could run two vox 
> inputs through them if I wanted) which get mixed together, send through 
> some stereo effects, and come out equally in the L/R outputs. I've 
> noticed that the Lexicon MPX 500 seems to do this.
> 
> Of course, floor units are options, too... but they'd need to have mic 
> inputs and preamps in them. The only ones I've seen that do this are 
> things like the Digitech Vocal 300 and Vocal 400 and they just don't 
> have very much flexibility.... and the better ones (like tcHelicon's 
> VoiceLive) is just too damn expensive.... although it *is* very sweet.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> - Joe
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jsynthlib-devel mailing list
> Jsy...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsynthlib-devel
> 
> 
> End of Jsynthlib-devel Digest

-- 
Sean Scott
------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: Sea...@su...         | Sun Microsystems
Phone: +44-(0)2072-204271 or x29871 | 55 King William Street
Fax:   +44-(0)2073-379262           | London, EC4 9HX
------------------------------------------------------------------

AW: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things

[Joachim B. <jba...@pi...>]

Oh,
sorry for my mail yesterday.

I completely misunderstood the issue and didn't
know that NordLead support is also in
JSynthLib.

Regards,
J. Backhaus

AW: [Jsynthlib-devel] OT: Ideas for rackmount multi-effects unit

[Joachim B. <jba...@pi...>]

> Any suggestions?

Try to get a Digitech Studio 400,
that's the big version of the Digitech Studio Quad
with 8 instead of 4 effects and 4 ins and 4 outs.

Here in Germany they are sold used at ebay at approx. 130 Euro.

The Alesis Quadraverb 2 oder 20 has also 8 effects max.
but only the normal 2 ins and outs.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Joachim Backhaus

> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: jsy...@li...
> [mailto:jsy...@li...]Im Auftrag von Joe
> Emenaker
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. M=E4rz 2005 00:37
> An: JSynthLib Development
> Betreff: [Jsynthlib-devel] OT: Ideas for rackmount multi-effects unit
>=20
>=20
> Okay... this is off-topic, I know... but you all seem to be geeky=20
> tech-head musicians, and that's the audience that I want to get ideas=20
> from. If you don't want me to ever ask a question like this=20
> on the JSL=20
> list again, let me know.
>=20
> I'm looking for a (probably) rackmount effects unit for two vocal=20
> channels in my band. It would be nice to have more than two effects=20
> (like... compression, reverb, and chorus) per channel, but=20
> just two is=20
> acceptable. I say "per channel", because we'd want different=20
> effects on=20
> each channel. So... a total of four effects total is a=20
> minimum requirement.
>=20
> Getting two, separate, effects units is not out of the=20
> question. Also,=20
> I'm trying to do this as cheaply as possible, so don't suggest a=20
> tcHelicon VoiceLive. :) I'm trying to do this for less than $200.
>=20
> One unit which I have used in the past and am very intrigued=20
> by is the=20
> Ensoniq DP/4. It has 4 effects processors and four inputs and four=20
> outputs. You can configure it in all kinds of ways. You can=20
> use just one=20
> mono input and have it go through all four of the processors=20
> (in series=20
> or parallel or some combination of it) and out outputs 1 and=20
> 2. You can=20
> have two mono inputs each use two processors and come out two=20
> pairs of=20
> outputs (what I'd use it as)., or each input go through a single=20
> processor and out a single output, etc. It's pretty tricky to=20
> figure out=20
> what's going on, but it's very flexible. Problem is....=20
> they're not very=20
> plentiful nor cheap. Every now and then, one will close on=20
> ebay for less=20
> than $200.
>=20
> Whatever I get, it would be nice if it had "mono split",=20
> meaning that it=20
> can treat the L/R inputs as two mono signals (so I could run two vox=20
> inputs through them if I wanted) which get mixed together,=20
> send through=20
> some stereo effects, and come out equally in the L/R outputs. I've=20
> noticed that the Lexicon MPX 500 seems to do this.
>=20
> Of course, floor units are options, too... but they'd need to=20
> have mic=20
> inputs and preamps in them. The only ones I've seen that do this are=20
> things like the Digitech Vocal 300 and Vocal 400 and they just don't=20
> have very much flexibility.... and the better ones (like tcHelicon's=20
> VoiceLive) is just too damn expensive.... although it *is* very sweet.
>=20
> Any suggestions?
>=20
> - Joe
>=20
>=20

[Jsynthlib-devel] OT: Ideas for rackmount multi-effects unit

[Joe E. <jo...@em...>]

Okay... this is off-topic, I know... but you all seem to be geeky 
tech-head musicians, and that's the audience that I want to get ideas 
from. If you don't want me to ever ask a question like this on the JSL 
list again, let me know.

I'm looking for a (probably) rackmount effects unit for two vocal 
channels in my band. It would be nice to have more than two effects 
(like... compression, reverb, and chorus) per channel, but just two is 
acceptable. I say "per channel", because we'd want different effects on 
each channel. So... a total of four effects total is a minimum requirement.

Getting two, separate, effects units is not out of the question. Also, 
I'm trying to do this as cheaply as possible, so don't suggest a 
tcHelicon VoiceLive. :) I'm trying to do this for less than $200.

One unit which I have used in the past and am very intrigued by is the 
Ensoniq DP/4. It has 4 effects processors and four inputs and four 
outputs. You can configure it in all kinds of ways. You can use just one 
mono input and have it go through all four of the processors (in series 
or parallel or some combination of it) and out outputs 1 and 2. You can 
have two mono inputs each use two processors and come out two pairs of 
outputs (what I'd use it as)., or each input go through a single 
processor and out a single output, etc. It's pretty tricky to figure out 
what's going on, but it's very flexible. Problem is.... they're not very 
plentiful nor cheap. Every now and then, one will close on ebay for less 
than $200.

Whatever I get, it would be nice if it had "mono split", meaning that it 
can treat the L/R inputs as two mono signals (so I could run two vox 
inputs through them if I wanted) which get mixed together, send through 
some stereo effects, and come out equally in the L/R outputs. I've 
noticed that the Lexicon MPX 500 seems to do this.

Of course, floor units are options, too... but they'd need to have mic 
inputs and preamps in them. The only ones I've seen that do this are 
things like the Digitech Vocal 300 and Vocal 400 and they just don't 
have very much flexibility.... and the better ones (like tcHelicon's 
VoiceLive) is just too damn expensive.... although it *is* very sweet.

Any suggestions?

- Joe

[Jsynthlib-devel] What is the JSL way to deal with negative param values?

[Steven S. <ste...@co...>]

Hello -
When a parameter has values in a range of say, -60 to +12 represented in 
the sysex as C4 to 0C, are there existing methods that understand those 
values?  Is anyone aware of a synth editor that deals with this type of 
data?
Thanks -
Steve

Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things

[Brian <br...@ov...>]

>
> Nord Lead ->
>
>     I see that only the edit buffer of slot1 is used for the
>     patches, would it be useful to have a setting in JSynthLib that
>     will send to any slot?  I think it's just a field in the 
> systex         data that picks the slot.
>
>     In the Nord L2 manual the sysex info says the data can be sent
>     to the edit buffer or slots 1-4 (via values 0-5).  I'll check
>     which one JSynthLib uses but I think the 0 (current edit buffer    
>     is likely what it is).  Was there a problem using the slot
>     numbers?


There is no problem with using slot numbers, and the Patch - > Store 
menu option is used for storing to any slot. The purpose of "send" is 
supposed to be a nondestructive "Move this patch over from the computer 
to the synth's edit buffer so we can hear what it sounds like" function. 
It is not supposed to actually store to any location. However certain 
synths such as this Nord Lead lack true midi accessable edit buffers. In 
this case we usually just sacrifice one of the synth's memory
spaces to treat as an edit buffer.

Brian Kklock

Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things

[Brian <br...@ov...>]

Hello,

Please go ahead and make any improvements you feel the editors need.

The Matrix6 Librarian/Editor was written by me, but I only own a 
Matrix1000 so I could never test it fully. I am no longer actively 
working on it so feel free to make any improvements and fix any bugs you 
find.
I believe the NordLead should be in a similar state.

Thanks

Brian Klock

Sean Scott wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is anyone working on Matrix6 and/or Nord Lead enhancements? If not I 
> might be able to sign up to do some.  I don't have any Java or C++ 
> exp. but I do a lot of C programming and know some people at Sun.  Of 
> course I don't have much time but who does?
>

AW: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things

[Joachim B. <jba...@pi...>]

Hello,

Matrix 6 support is already there (also in Version 0.18). :)

If you plan support for the Nord Lead, please open a feature
request on the JSynthLib Tracker in SourceForge:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=3D430007&group_id=3D41208&func=3Dbro=
wse

You can also post the progress and your code there. :)

Regards,
J. Backhaus

> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: jsy...@li...
> [mailto:jsy...@li...]Im=20
> Auftrag von Sean
> Scott
> Gesendet: Montag, 21. M=E4rz 2005 19:13
> An: jsy...@li...; jsy...@ov...
> Betreff: [Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Is anyone working on Matrix6 and/or Nord Lead enhancements? If not I=20
> might be able to sign up to do some.  I don't have any Java=20
> or C++ exp.=20
> but I do a lot of C programming and know some people at Sun. =20
> Of course=20
> I don't have much time but who does?
>=20
> I also appreciate the opensource nature of this project, and=20
> think it's=20
> great that you wrote this program for people to use wihtout trying to=20
> gain (man I love GNU sometimes).
>=20
> If you're interested in the details of my testing then read on - I'm=20
> away from my studio at the moment but I did some testing with=20
> the 0.18=20
> jSynthLib and saw the following:
>=20
> This is all dome on Mac OSX 10.3.4
>=20
> $ java -version
> java version "1.4.2_03"
> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build=20
> 1.4.2_03-117.1)
> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-34, mixed mode)
>=20
>=20
> Testing Conducted on a Matrix 6 ->
>=20
> Strange behaviour + enhancements:
>=20
> 	- Main Window - drop-down menus tend to disappear and have to be
> 	  		reselected to get at the menu contents.
> 		      - would be nice to be able to type the patch
> 			number or select it from the list (faster).
> 		      - turned my trash icon into a java icon...
> 	- Edit Window - sometimes the sliders don't appear.
> 	  	      - values cannot be entered via text in the boxes.
> 		      - values seem to do what they should on synth
> 		        after being stored (good!).
> 	- Bank Support - I could look into adding it if I knew the
> 			 format, I could probably use the 1000 as a
> 			 reference and compare to the Matrix6 dump using
> 			 a hex editor.
> =09
> 	- Patch Get   - recognises the patches as being from a=20
> Matrix6	=09
> 			(good!).
> 		      - Matrix6 only sends sysex on MIDI 1 for some
> 			reason (synth issue/feature).
> 		      - the Patch Name is all unrecognised characters.
> 		      - changing the patch name sort of works (as long
> 			as all capital letters are used).
> 	- Patch Edit/Store - Modifying the parameters seems to work.
> 			   - the click option for DCO's does nothing (no
> 			     sound, is synth issue?).
> 			   - the DCO source check boxes should be
> 			     exclusive not additive (wave + pulse +
> 			     noise) - I think but maybe I'm wrong.
> =09
> 	!!! - after getting a patch (sucessfully) I can send it to
> 	      Matrix6 (sucessfully but using MIDI ch 1 again).
> 	    - can edit the patch (but see some strangeness as above).
> 	    - can still send it to Matrix6 and it seems to work OK.
> 	    - but trying to 'get' the sent patch has problems JSynthLib
> 	      tells me that it is not in Matrix6 format but it's
> 	      "probably an Oberheim patch" (I guess Oberheim used
> 	      a weird format).  So something is not working right.
> 	      May just be the PatchName but I'm not sure yet.
>=20
> Nord Lead ->
>=20
> 	I see that only the edit buffer of slot1 is used for the
> 	patches, would it be useful to have a setting in JSynthLib that
> 	will send to any slot?  I think it's just a field in=20
> the systex 		data=20
> that picks the slot.
>=20
> 	In the Nord L2 manual the sysex info says the data can be sent
> 	to the edit buffer or slots 1-4 (via values 0-5).  I'll check
> 	which one JSynthLib uses but I think the 0 (current=20
> edit buffer =09
> 	is likely what it is).  Was there a problem using the slot
> 	numbers?
>=20
>=20
> So perhaps I can contribute.  I know anything about Java dev=20
> but I think=20
> all the basic tools (javec etc.) are already in OSX so that's=20
> a start.=20
> I have also grabbed a copy of your programming ref. page.
>=20
> Thanks again and sorry for the very long mail.  (PS I just downloaded=20
> the .20 version and will try all this again once I'm back=20
> near my gear).
>=20
> --=20
> Sean Scott
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email: Sea...@su...         | Sun Microsystems
> Phone: +44-(0)xxxxxxxxxxx or xxxxxx | 55 King William Street
> Fax:   +44-(0)xxxxxxxxxxx           | London, EC4 9HX
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from=20
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> _______________________________________________
> Jsynthlib-devel mailing list
> Jsy...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsynthlib-devel
>=20

[Jsynthlib-devel] matrix6 and other dev things

[Sean S. <Sea...@Su...>]

Hi,

Is anyone working on Matrix6 and/or Nord Lead enhancements? If not I 
might be able to sign up to do some.  I don't have any Java or C++ exp. 
but I do a lot of C programming and know some people at Sun.  Of course 
I don't have much time but who does?

I also appreciate the opensource nature of this project, and think it's 
great that you wrote this program for people to use wihtout trying to 
gain (man I love GNU sometimes).

If you're interested in the details of my testing then read on - I'm 
away from my studio at the moment but I did some testing with the 0.18 
jSynthLib and saw the following:

This is all dome on Mac OSX 10.3.4

$ java -version
java version "1.4.2_03"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.4.2_03-117.1)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-34, mixed mode)


Testing Conducted on a Matrix 6 ->

Strange behaviour + enhancements:

	- Main Window - drop-down menus tend to disappear and have to be
	  		reselected to get at the menu contents.
		      - would be nice to be able to type the patch
			number or select it from the list (faster).
		      - turned my trash icon into a java icon...
	- Edit Window - sometimes the sliders don't appear.
	  	      - values cannot be entered via text in the boxes.
		      - values seem to do what they should on synth
		        after being stored (good!).
	- Bank Support - I could look into adding it if I knew the
			 format, I could probably use the 1000 as a
			 reference and compare to the Matrix6 dump using
			 a hex editor.
	
	- Patch Get   - recognises the patches as being from a Matrix6		
			(good!).
		      - Matrix6 only sends sysex on MIDI 1 for some
			reason (synth issue/feature).
		      - the Patch Name is all unrecognised characters.
		      - changing the patch name sort of works (as long
			as all capital letters are used).
	- Patch Edit/Store - Modifying the parameters seems to work.
			   - the click option for DCO's does nothing (no
			     sound, is synth issue?).
			   - the DCO source check boxes should be
			     exclusive not additive (wave + pulse +
			     noise) - I think but maybe I'm wrong.
	
	!!! - after getting a patch (sucessfully) I can send it to
	      Matrix6 (sucessfully but using MIDI ch 1 again).
	    - can edit the patch (but see some strangeness as above).
	    - can still send it to Matrix6 and it seems to work OK.
	    - but trying to 'get' the sent patch has problems JSynthLib
	      tells me that it is not in Matrix6 format but it's
	      "probably an Oberheim patch" (I guess Oberheim used
	      a weird format).  So something is not working right.
	      May just be the PatchName but I'm not sure yet.

Nord Lead ->

	I see that only the edit buffer of slot1 is used for the
	patches, would it be useful to have a setting in JSynthLib that
	will send to any slot?  I think it's just a field in the systex 		data 
that picks the slot.

	In the Nord L2 manual the sysex info says the data can be sent
	to the edit buffer or slots 1-4 (via values 0-5).  I'll check
	which one JSynthLib uses but I think the 0 (current edit buffer 	
	is likely what it is).  Was there a problem using the slot
	numbers?


So perhaps I can contribute.  I know anything about Java dev but I think 
all the basic tools (javec etc.) are already in OSX so that's a start. 
I have also grabbed a copy of your programming ref. page.

Thanks again and sorry for the very long mail.  (PS I just downloaded 
the .20 version and will try all this again once I'm back near my gear).

-- 
Sean Scott
------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: Sea...@su...         | Sun Microsystems
Phone: +44-(0)xxxxxxxxxxx or xxxxxx | 55 King William Street
Fax:   +44-(0)xxxxxxxxxxx           | London, EC4 9HX
------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Jsynthlib-devel] The addWidget(...) design

[Joe E. <jo...@em...>]

Bill Zwicky wrote:

> Since you want to decode and encode your sysex all at once, you need 
> to extend IPatch, not Patch.  You can then hide your byte array, and 
> require all access to go through getByte, getInt, etc.

Oh... so the addWidget and ParamModels are all looking for IPatch, and 
not Patch? If that's the case, then my data-model could just implement 
that and I could pass the data-model directly in place of a Patch 
object. I'll try that....

- Joe