[Josgui-devel] RE: JOS GUI

[Iain S. <iai...@ya...>]

At 02:39 PM 9/21/00 -0400, Matthew Schmidt wrote:
>         Ok, I forwarded this last message to our development mailing 
> list, as I'm
>sure it'll be useful.  Right now we'll stick with concentrating on a desktop
>and window manager in swing.  This is the quickest and easiest way to work
>with it, and actually fits in with the Rome version of JOS.

Cool.  Sounds like the right approach.

>We're working
>on figuring out how to make other swing/awt apps work transparently with
>the GUI.  Our current thought is to use a modified ClassLoader
>(ApplicationLauncher) and a ProcessDaemon to handle loading the classes.
>For JosGUI specific apps, to handle docking those apps into the
>taskbar/panel, they just need to add the default window listener as their
>personal window listener.  That won't solve the problem of exit methods that
>call System.exit(0); as that will kill the entire JVM, but it's a start.  Do
>you know of anyway we can catch all AWTEvents without registering them
>explicitly?  That would be a big help.  Also, is there a way we can catch
>the System.exit() calls?  We'll need to catch and ignore those.

It would probably be best if you try and coordinate with Ryan Heise 
http://www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/~rheise/ and the rheise.os team.  The process 
issues, custom classloader, etc are all implemented or being worked on as 
part of the rheise.os project.  The rheise.os is really a java OS (unlike 
the kernel and vm which essentially are just part of what would normally be 
a chip) and addresses multiple processes in one vm.  AWT issues are the 
current area of concentration since they've been causing some problems for 
him as well.  So it would seem there can be a lot of cooperation and 
synergy if your two groups coordinate.

As far as the System.exit call, I believe that Ryan is solving that by 
loading his own System class which reimplements exit() to return to his 
os.  It's actually very clever and surprisingly seamless in operation.  The 
other approach is to rewrite the classfile as its being loaded (sorta how 
you do post compile-time class instrumentation... and there's an article in 
the latest Java Developer Pro on doing it).  I think Ryan's method is 
better though.

>         For the webstart technology, I'll have to look into how that 
> technology
>works more.  Doesn't it require a webserver to actually work?

Nope.  You need to be able to load things over http but you can do that in 
java without a browser.  It really is slick and based on xml to boot 
(essentially representing an application, its dependencies, and how to 
update it all in xml) which seems to really mesh well with the concept of 
applications and icons (or "start up items") in a GUI.

-iain

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@me...]
>Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:47 PM
>To: Matthew Schmidt
>Subject: RE: JOS GUI
>
>
>At 12:12 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >Well currently we were relying on whatever Swing and the core Java classes
> >for showing the GUI. I hadn't really thought about talking directly to the
> >video drivers.  We had assumed that JOS would be packaging something
>similar
> >to the Java core classes and swing with the OS, then we'd use those.
>
>Yes.  Eventually JOS will do so (implement swing independently).  For now,
>swing on xwindows will work though and it probably is a different project
>to actually implement swing directly on video drivers.  So for your GUI is
>this doing a desktop and window manager in swing?  Will other java
>swing/awt applications need to be specially tweaked to work with your gui
>or will it work transparently?
>
>Finally, I know you're looking into ways to launch gui aps and do start
>menus and docks.  How you checked out the webstart technology from sun?  I
>was thinking that might make a perfect installation/update/uninstall
>technology for jos to adopt for all software installation/configuration.
>
> >PS>  I don't have any experience with video drivers, so if we need to
> >implement that way, we're going to need someone else with that kind of
> >experience on the team.
>
>OK.  I think we'll make that a separate project as its more a library
>porting issue (swing on a raw graphics device) than anything specifically
>GUI related.
>
>-iain
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@ya...]
> >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:48 AM
> >To: Matthew Schmidt
> >Subject: Re: JOS GUI
> >
> >
> >At 12:21 AM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Potential Subsystems to replace:
> > >         X-Windows window manager
> > >         X-Windows itself
> > >
> > >When looking over your wiki page, I noticed these two things for Rome
>1.4.
> > >Currently myself and 3 others (presently) are working on a windowing
>system
> > >for JOS to be used whenever it gets on it's feet enough to use it.  We've
> > >got lots of great ideas for this system, and it's coming along quiet
>nicely
> > >so far.  I just released the first version of the media player that is
> >going
> > >to go with it.  I just wanted to let you know that we were working on
>this.
> > >We'd work on something more pressing towards the front, but our
>experience
> > >is mostly GUI work and we fit in best here.
> >
> >I checked it out.  It looks really nice.  Thanks for the update.  Once the
> >re-org is underway, I think we should really help to promote your work
> >because I didn't even know it was happening!  Does your GUI rely on X
> >windows or does it talk directly to the video drivers?
> >
> >-iain