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From: <xs...@ne...> - 2001-01-04 23:24:25
|
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From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-26 05:38:20
|
The prelim design doc has been posted on http://josgui.n3.net , just follow the link under JosGUI to View the Design Documentation. It should be easy to read and understand, and I am looking for modifications. Matt |
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From: Bob <bo...@fy...> - 2000-09-26 01:42:38
|
My basic idea was something like this:
An XML file could define what parts are to be in the GUI, some users might
not like a taskbar, or wants to add a feature. If the User likes to use a
custom somponent, a background for instanse, then he could do that
(writing his own) by implementing an interface that provises needed
functionality. For example:
public interface JosGuiBackgruond {
public void repaint(Graphics page);
public void setSize(int x, int y);
}
He could spawn a new thread of the background and repaint it now and then
with wheater reports fetched over a socket, we don't have to care as long
as he implement the interface. The interface will ensure it fits into the
give gui slot.
The XML file will define what custom parts that are placed in what slots
of the GUI. A slot is some abstract part like for instance a background or
a panel or something we don't know about.
When the XML file is read a classloader (we basicly extend the
java.lang.ClassLoader) takes care of actually loading the classes the user
wanna have in the different slots. I guess java.awt.Component would do as
a basic slot, maybe we should override it and add some extra stuff we
need. Im not that good with awt.
I don't know if there are more to it than that. Don't confuse this with
the process daemon i have been working on, it's a different thing really,
and I don't think we are going to use it.
I further supose we could use something to monitor the different parts of
the GUI and kill them, if the behave bad. Supose that the weather report
fetcher goes berserk and eat system resourses like Godzilla, then we
should kill it. For that matter we basicly have the user to implement a
dispose() method through the interface. If he don't care about that or the
custom component that the user have written really eats cpu, then we just
'unlink' that object and call gc() (i.e. custom_component =
null; System.gc();) I guess that would work.
And yeah, I like to hear your opinions about this, as always ;)
/bob
On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Matthew Schmidt wrote:
> I think Bob and I were talking about that. Doing a complete XML based thing
> seems like a good idea.
>
> Matt
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jos...@li...
> [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bill
> Groppe
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:17 AM
> To: jos...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Josgui-devel] Design Doc
>
>
>
> Hey, here's another thought... Should we make the whole configuration xml
> based? Start menu items, start menu placement, desktop, background. This
> would allow users to easily customize how their desktop appears. It would
> also
> make writing configuration GUI's easier. We could provide a standard class
> to
> allow manipulation of all the XML files. Then all that's needed is to slap
> a
> GUI on top of it.
>
> Other then that, the plan looks great.
>
> -Bill
>
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, you wrote:
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > Here's an attempt a basic design doc. I'd like to see it modified by
> > you guys for how you think we should go about developing the GUI. We're
> > really going to have to get the process management working, otherwise
> we're
> > going to fail. And we can't have that now can we :) Also, if the
> alignment
> > is bad, give me a day or so, and I'll have it up on the website
> >
> >
> > Process Model
> >
> >
> > |
> >
> >
> > Dynamic Desktop System (built from XML files)
> >
> >
> > | |
> >
> >
> > TaskBar Desktop (Using a JDesktopPane)
> >
> >
> > | |
> >
> > Start Menu
> and
> > panel items Windowed Apps, Desktop Buttons, background
> items,
> > screensavers
> >
> >
> > | |
> >
> >
> > JInternalFrames Buttons built from an XML system
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------
> Content-Type: text/html; name="unnamed"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Description:
> ----------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Josgui-devel mailing list
> Jos...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel
>
> _______________________________________________
> Josgui-devel mailing list
> Jos...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel
>
|
|
From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-25 17:37:53
|
Great! I might get started tonight on shifting the desktop to a JDesktopPane and seeing how that goes. One thing we need to decide here is whether or not we want to build on top of Rheise-OS, using it's process system as our base. The author seems to think that his system will be used in JOS at some point in time, but it requires having a compliant JVM, not any ole standard one. I think if we want others to test and use our GUI independant of JOS, then we're going to have to find a way to interact with a standard JVM and deal with process that way. Matt -----Original Message----- From: jos...@li... [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bill Groppe Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 12:27 PM To: jos...@li... Subject: RE: [Josgui-devel] Design Doc Cool. I'll get started tonight. -Bill On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, you wrote: > I think Bob and I were talking about that. Doing a complete XML based thing > seems like a good idea. > > Matt > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jos...@li... > [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bill > Groppe > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:17 AM > To: jos...@li... > Subject: Re: [Josgui-devel] Design Doc > > > > Hey, here's another thought... Should we make the whole configuration xml > based? Start menu items, start menu placement, desktop, background. This > would allow users to easily customize how their desktop appears. It would > also > make writing configuration GUI's easier. We could provide a standard class > to > allow manipulation of all the XML files. Then all that's needed is to slap > a > GUI on top of it. > > Other then that, the plan looks great. > > -Bill > > On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, you wrote: > > > > Guys, > > > > Here's an attempt a basic design doc. I'd like to see it modified by > > you guys for how you think we should go about developing the GUI. We're > > really going to have to get the process management working, otherwise > we're > > going to fail. And we can't have that now can we :) Also, if the > alignment > > is bad, give me a day or so, and I'll have it up on the website > > > > > > Process Model > > > > > > | > > > > > > Dynamic Desktop System (built from XML files) > > > > > > | | > > > > > > TaskBar Desktop (Using a JDesktopPane) > > > > > > | | > > > > Start Menu > and > > panel items Windowed Apps, Desktop Buttons, background > items, > > screensavers > > > > > > | | > > > > > > JInternalFrames Buttons built from an XML system > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > Content-Type: text/html; name="unnamed" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Content-Description: > ---------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel _______________________________________________ Josgui-devel mailing list Jos...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel |
|
From: Bill G. <bil...@fa...> - 2000-09-25 16:27:51
|
Cool. I'll get started tonight. -Bill On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, you wrote: > I think Bob and I were talking about that. Doing a complete XML based thing > seems like a good idea. > > Matt > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jos...@li... > [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bill > Groppe > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:17 AM > To: jos...@li... > Subject: Re: [Josgui-devel] Design Doc > > > > Hey, here's another thought... Should we make the whole configuration xml > based? Start menu items, start menu placement, desktop, background. This > would allow users to easily customize how their desktop appears. It would > also > make writing configuration GUI's easier. We could provide a standard class > to > allow manipulation of all the XML files. Then all that's needed is to slap > a > GUI on top of it. > > Other then that, the plan looks great. > > -Bill > > On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, you wrote: > > > > Guys, > > > > Here's an attempt a basic design doc. I'd like to see it modified by > > you guys for how you think we should go about developing the GUI. We're > > really going to have to get the process management working, otherwise > we're > > going to fail. And we can't have that now can we :) Also, if the > alignment > > is bad, give me a day or so, and I'll have it up on the website > > > > > > Process Model > > > > > > | > > > > > > Dynamic Desktop System (built from XML files) > > > > > > | | > > > > > > TaskBar Desktop (Using a JDesktopPane) > > > > > > | | > > > > Start Menu > and > > panel items Windowed Apps, Desktop Buttons, background > items, > > screensavers > > > > > > | | > > > > > > JInternalFrames Buttons built from an XML system > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > Content-Type: text/html; name="unnamed" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Content-Description: > ---------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel |
|
From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-25 16:02:45
|
I think Bob and I were talking about that. Doing a complete XML based thing seems like a good idea. Matt -----Original Message----- From: jos...@li... [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bill Groppe Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:17 AM To: jos...@li... Subject: Re: [Josgui-devel] Design Doc Hey, here's another thought... Should we make the whole configuration xml based? Start menu items, start menu placement, desktop, background. This would allow users to easily customize how their desktop appears. It would also make writing configuration GUI's easier. We could provide a standard class to allow manipulation of all the XML files. Then all that's needed is to slap a GUI on top of it. Other then that, the plan looks great. -Bill On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, you wrote: > > Guys, > > Here's an attempt a basic design doc. I'd like to see it modified by > you guys for how you think we should go about developing the GUI. We're > really going to have to get the process management working, otherwise we're > going to fail. And we can't have that now can we :) Also, if the alignment > is bad, give me a day or so, and I'll have it up on the website > > > Process Model > > > | > > > Dynamic Desktop System (built from XML files) > > > | | > > > TaskBar Desktop (Using a JDesktopPane) > > > | | > > Start Menu and > panel items Windowed Apps, Desktop Buttons, background items, > screensavers > > > | | > > > JInternalFrames Buttons built from an XML system > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/html; name="unnamed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Josgui-devel mailing list Jos...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel |
|
From: Bill G. <bil...@fa...> - 2000-09-25 14:21:04
|
Hey, here's another thought... Should we make the whole configuration xml based? Start menu items, start menu placement, desktop, background. This would allow users to easily customize how their desktop appears. It would also make writing configuration GUI's easier. We could provide a standard class to allow manipulation of all the XML files. Then all that's needed is to slap a GUI on top of it. Other then that, the plan looks great. -Bill On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, you wrote: > > Guys, > > Here's an attempt a basic design doc. I'd like to see it modified by > you guys for how you think we should go about developing the GUI. We're > really going to have to get the process management working, otherwise we're > going to fail. And we can't have that now can we :) Also, if the alignment > is bad, give me a day or so, and I'll have it up on the website > > > Process Model > > > | > > > Dynamic Desktop System (built from XML files) > > > | | > > > TaskBar Desktop (Using a JDesktopPane) > > > | | > > Start Menu and > panel items Windowed Apps, Desktop Buttons, background items, > screensavers > > > | | > > > JInternalFrames Buttons built from an XML system > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/html; name="unnamed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- |
|
From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-25 13:33:20
|
Guys,
Here's an attempt a basic design doc. I'd like to see it modified by
you guys for how you think we should go about developing the GUI. We're
really going to have to get the process management working, otherwise we're
going to fail. And we can't have that now can we :) Also, if the alignment
is bad, give me a day or so, and I'll have it up on the website
Process Model
|
Dynamic Desktop System (built from XML files)
| |
TaskBar Desktop (Using a JDesktopPane)
| |
Start Menu and
panel items Windowed Apps, Desktop Buttons, background items,
screensavers
| |
JInternalFrames Buttons built from an XML system
|
|
From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-22 19:34:42
|
Guys, I was just sitting here thinking about it, and I think Bill has the right idea for the desktop. If we extend the desktop as a JDesktopPane and then someone get all new JFrames and JDialogs to actually be inside JInternalFrames, then we have the basics for our GUI already in place. According to some of the docs on the JOS website, we're supposed to rewrite the core Java classes for our own needs wherever we have to. I think that applies to this situation. The problem with that is that if we're going to need the previous JFrame class. I'll have to take a look at how Sun does it (that's cheating, but ohh well) with the native Frame peer. Then we can just add it to a JInternalFrame when it's created. Of course we could also modify it severly and have the getContentPane() method returnt he content pane in the JInternalFrame and then we'd never even have a JFrame anymore. Everything would just get added to the JInternalFrame. I think this might be the way to go in the long run. I'm going out of town this weekend, but by Tues. I hope to have a design document put up on the website, starting at the bottom with our application launcher. Let me know your design ideas until then. Matt |
|
From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-22 05:06:20
|
I think the Rheise-OS will capture everything we need, so we won't have to do anything. Bob, I believe he even has tasks and whatnot, so your task manager suddenly becomes easier. It's just the backend that we needed. Matt -----Original Message----- From: jos...@li... [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bill Groppe Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 6:38 PM To: jos...@li... Subject: RE: [Josgui-devel] FW: JOS GUI If you reclass the swing components, you don't have to worry about it. A regular app will start up, create a frame and go. It won't even now that the frame is a JInternalFrame as opposed to a regular one. Becuase JFrame and Frame will both instantiate JInternalFrame instead of there regular classes. You're probably right though, we should work with rheise, to get things going. -Bill On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, you wrote: > That still doesn't handle when regular Java applications start up. If we > were able to catch the frame creation events and add them to a > JInternalFrame in the desktop, then that would be a cool way to do it, but I > have no idea how to catch those events. I think the best option is to work > with the rheise OS and get things started from within that. > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: jos...@li... > [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bill > Groppe > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 4:17 PM > To: jos...@li... > Subject: Re: [Josgui-devel] FW: JOS GUI > > > > > Ok, here's my 2 cents. I'm certainly not as experienced as you guys are, > but > why not use desktop manager? > > If we take the src to the swing library and make all the > dialogs/frames/windows inherit from JInternalFrame, wouldn't that get us > alot > of the functionality we're looking for? > > One JDesktop Frame would contain all the other frames. The developers of > other > apps wouldn't ahve to worry about porting, and some of the functionality is > already there. > > Please let me know what you think. > > Thanks, > > Bill > > On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, you wrote: > > Here's some ideas. > > > > Matt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@me...] > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:47 PM > > To: Matthew Schmidt > > Subject: RE: JOS GUI > > > > > > At 12:12 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Well currently we were relying on whatever Swing and the core Java > classes > > >for showing the GUI. I hadn't really thought about talking directly to > the > > >video drivers. We had assumed that JOS would be packaging something > > similar > > >to the Java core classes and swing with the OS, then we'd use those. > > > > Yes. Eventually JOS will do so (implement swing independently). For now, > > swing on xwindows will work though and it probably is a different project > > to actually implement swing directly on video drivers. So for your GUI is > > this doing a desktop and window manager in swing? Will other java > > swing/awt applications need to be specially tweaked to work with your gui > > or will it work transparently? > > > > Finally, I know you're looking into ways to launch gui aps and do start > > menus and docks. How you checked out the webstart technology from sun? I > > was thinking that might make a perfect installation/update/uninstall > > technology for jos to adopt for all software installation/configuration. > > > > >PS> I don't have any experience with video drivers, so if we need to > > >implement that way, we're going to need someone else with that kind of > > >experience on the team. > > > > OK. I think we'll make that a separate project as its more a library > > porting issue (swing on a raw graphics device) than anything specifically > > GUI related. > > > > -iain > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@ya...] > > >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:48 AM > > >To: Matthew Schmidt > > >Subject: Re: JOS GUI > > > > > > > > >At 12:21 AM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Potential Subsystems to replace: > > > > X-Windows window manager > > > > X-Windows itself > > > > > > > >When looking over your wiki page, I noticed these two things for Rome > > 1.4. > > > >Currently myself and 3 others (presently) are working on a windowing > > system > > > >for JOS to be used whenever it gets on it's feet enough to use it. > We've > > > >got lots of great ideas for this system, and it's coming along quiet > > nicely > > > >so far. I just released the first version of the media player that is > > >going > > > >to go with it. I just wanted to let you know that we were working on > > this. > > > >We'd work on something more pressing towards the front, but our > > experience > > > >is mostly GUI work and we fit in best here. > > > > > >I checked it out. It looks really nice. Thanks for the update. Once > the > > >re-org is underway, I think we should really help to promote your work > > >because I didn't even know it was happening! Does your GUI rely on X > > >windows or does it talk directly to the video drivers? > > > > > >-iain > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Josgui-devel mailing list > > Jos...@li... > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel _______________________________________________ Josgui-devel mailing list Jos...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel |
|
From: Bill G. <bil...@fa...> - 2000-09-21 22:40:52
|
If you reclass the swing components, you don't have to worry about it. A regular app will start up, create a frame and go. It won't even now that the frame is a JInternalFrame as opposed to a regular one. Becuase JFrame and Frame will both instantiate JInternalFrame instead of there regular classes. You're probably right though, we should work with rheise, to get things going. -Bill On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, you wrote: > That still doesn't handle when regular Java applications start up. If we > were able to catch the frame creation events and add them to a > JInternalFrame in the desktop, then that would be a cool way to do it, but I > have no idea how to catch those events. I think the best option is to work > with the rheise OS and get things started from within that. > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: jos...@li... > [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bill > Groppe > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 4:17 PM > To: jos...@li... > Subject: Re: [Josgui-devel] FW: JOS GUI > > > > > Ok, here's my 2 cents. I'm certainly not as experienced as you guys are, > but > why not use desktop manager? > > If we take the src to the swing library and make all the > dialogs/frames/windows inherit from JInternalFrame, wouldn't that get us > alot > of the functionality we're looking for? > > One JDesktop Frame would contain all the other frames. The developers of > other > apps wouldn't ahve to worry about porting, and some of the functionality is > already there. > > Please let me know what you think. > > Thanks, > > Bill > > On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, you wrote: > > Here's some ideas. > > > > Matt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@me...] > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:47 PM > > To: Matthew Schmidt > > Subject: RE: JOS GUI > > > > > > At 12:12 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Well currently we were relying on whatever Swing and the core Java > classes > > >for showing the GUI. I hadn't really thought about talking directly to > the > > >video drivers. We had assumed that JOS would be packaging something > > similar > > >to the Java core classes and swing with the OS, then we'd use those. > > > > Yes. Eventually JOS will do so (implement swing independently). For now, > > swing on xwindows will work though and it probably is a different project > > to actually implement swing directly on video drivers. So for your GUI is > > this doing a desktop and window manager in swing? Will other java > > swing/awt applications need to be specially tweaked to work with your gui > > or will it work transparently? > > > > Finally, I know you're looking into ways to launch gui aps and do start > > menus and docks. How you checked out the webstart technology from sun? I > > was thinking that might make a perfect installation/update/uninstall > > technology for jos to adopt for all software installation/configuration. > > > > >PS> I don't have any experience with video drivers, so if we need to > > >implement that way, we're going to need someone else with that kind of > > >experience on the team. > > > > OK. I think we'll make that a separate project as its more a library > > porting issue (swing on a raw graphics device) than anything specifically > > GUI related. > > > > -iain > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@ya...] > > >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:48 AM > > >To: Matthew Schmidt > > >Subject: Re: JOS GUI > > > > > > > > >At 12:21 AM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Potential Subsystems to replace: > > > > X-Windows window manager > > > > X-Windows itself > > > > > > > >When looking over your wiki page, I noticed these two things for Rome > > 1.4. > > > >Currently myself and 3 others (presently) are working on a windowing > > system > > > >for JOS to be used whenever it gets on it's feet enough to use it. > We've > > > >got lots of great ideas for this system, and it's coming along quiet > > nicely > > > >so far. I just released the first version of the media player that is > > >going > > > >to go with it. I just wanted to let you know that we were working on > > this. > > > >We'd work on something more pressing towards the front, but our > > experience > > > >is mostly GUI work and we fit in best here. > > > > > >I checked it out. It looks really nice. Thanks for the update. Once > the > > >re-org is underway, I think we should really help to promote your work > > >because I didn't even know it was happening! Does your GUI rely on X > > >windows or does it talk directly to the video drivers? > > > > > >-iain > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Josgui-devel mailing list > > Jos...@li... > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel |
|
From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-21 21:15:04
|
It would probably be best if you try and coordinate with Ryan Heise http://www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/~rheise/ and the rheise.os team. The process issues, custom classloader, etc are all implemented or being worked on as part of the rheise.os project. The rheise.os is really a java OS (unlike the kernel and vm which essentially are just part of what would normally be a chip) and addresses multiple processes in one vm. AWT issues are the current area of concentration since they've been causing some problems for him as well. So it would seem there can be a lot of cooperation and synergy if your two groups coordinate. As far as the System.exit call, I believe that Ryan is solving that by loading his own System class which reimplements exit() to return to his os. It's actually very clever and surprisingly seamless in operation. The other approach is to rewrite the classfile as its being loaded (sorta how you do post compile-time class instrumentation... and there's an article in the latest Java Developer Pro on doing it). I think Ryan's method is better though. -- Hmm, this was the solution I was looking for. Ryan, perhaps we can work from the ground-up getting the GUI running on the RheiseOS. From the installation docs, it likes like you've got something good going, and the JosGUI would fit right in. Having System.exit() not work anymore helps us. THe screenshots also look very cool. Working together would be in both our advantages (I think). -- |
|
From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-21 21:08:34
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That still doesn't handle when regular Java applications start up. If we were able to catch the frame creation events and add them to a JInternalFrame in the desktop, then that would be a cool way to do it, but I have no idea how to catch those events. I think the best option is to work with the rheise OS and get things started from within that. Matt -----Original Message----- From: jos...@li... [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bill Groppe Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 4:17 PM To: jos...@li... Subject: Re: [Josgui-devel] FW: JOS GUI Ok, here's my 2 cents. I'm certainly not as experienced as you guys are, but why not use desktop manager? If we take the src to the swing library and make all the dialogs/frames/windows inherit from JInternalFrame, wouldn't that get us alot of the functionality we're looking for? One JDesktop Frame would contain all the other frames. The developers of other apps wouldn't ahve to worry about porting, and some of the functionality is already there. Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Bill On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, you wrote: > Here's some ideas. > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@me...] > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:47 PM > To: Matthew Schmidt > Subject: RE: JOS GUI > > > At 12:12 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Well currently we were relying on whatever Swing and the core Java classes > >for showing the GUI. I hadn't really thought about talking directly to the > >video drivers. We had assumed that JOS would be packaging something > similar > >to the Java core classes and swing with the OS, then we'd use those. > > Yes. Eventually JOS will do so (implement swing independently). For now, > swing on xwindows will work though and it probably is a different project > to actually implement swing directly on video drivers. So for your GUI is > this doing a desktop and window manager in swing? Will other java > swing/awt applications need to be specially tweaked to work with your gui > or will it work transparently? > > Finally, I know you're looking into ways to launch gui aps and do start > menus and docks. How you checked out the webstart technology from sun? I > was thinking that might make a perfect installation/update/uninstall > technology for jos to adopt for all software installation/configuration. > > >PS> I don't have any experience with video drivers, so if we need to > >implement that way, we're going to need someone else with that kind of > >experience on the team. > > OK. I think we'll make that a separate project as its more a library > porting issue (swing on a raw graphics device) than anything specifically > GUI related. > > -iain > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@ya...] > >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:48 AM > >To: Matthew Schmidt > >Subject: Re: JOS GUI > > > > > >At 12:21 AM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Potential Subsystems to replace: > > > X-Windows window manager > > > X-Windows itself > > > > > >When looking over your wiki page, I noticed these two things for Rome > 1.4. > > >Currently myself and 3 others (presently) are working on a windowing > system > > >for JOS to be used whenever it gets on it's feet enough to use it. We've > > >got lots of great ideas for this system, and it's coming along quiet > nicely > > >so far. I just released the first version of the media player that is > >going > > >to go with it. I just wanted to let you know that we were working on > this. > > >We'd work on something more pressing towards the front, but our > experience > > >is mostly GUI work and we fit in best here. > > > >I checked it out. It looks really nice. Thanks for the update. Once the > >re-org is underway, I think we should really help to promote your work > >because I didn't even know it was happening! Does your GUI rely on X > >windows or does it talk directly to the video drivers? > > > >-iain > > > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel _______________________________________________ Josgui-devel mailing list Jos...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel |
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From: Bill G. <bil...@fa...> - 2000-09-21 20:22:58
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Ok, here's my 2 cents. I'm certainly not as experienced as you guys are, but why not use desktop manager? If we take the src to the swing library and make all the dialogs/frames/windows inherit from JInternalFrame, wouldn't that get us alot of the functionality we're looking for? One JDesktop Frame would contain all the other frames. The developers of other apps wouldn't ahve to worry about porting, and some of the functionality is already there. Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Bill On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, you wrote: > Here's some ideas. > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@me...] > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:47 PM > To: Matthew Schmidt > Subject: RE: JOS GUI > > > At 12:12 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Well currently we were relying on whatever Swing and the core Java classes > >for showing the GUI. I hadn't really thought about talking directly to the > >video drivers. We had assumed that JOS would be packaging something > similar > >to the Java core classes and swing with the OS, then we'd use those. > > Yes. Eventually JOS will do so (implement swing independently). For now, > swing on xwindows will work though and it probably is a different project > to actually implement swing directly on video drivers. So for your GUI is > this doing a desktop and window manager in swing? Will other java > swing/awt applications need to be specially tweaked to work with your gui > or will it work transparently? > > Finally, I know you're looking into ways to launch gui aps and do start > menus and docks. How you checked out the webstart technology from sun? I > was thinking that might make a perfect installation/update/uninstall > technology for jos to adopt for all software installation/configuration. > > >PS> I don't have any experience with video drivers, so if we need to > >implement that way, we're going to need someone else with that kind of > >experience on the team. > > OK. I think we'll make that a separate project as its more a library > porting issue (swing on a raw graphics device) than anything specifically > GUI related. > > -iain > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@ya...] > >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:48 AM > >To: Matthew Schmidt > >Subject: Re: JOS GUI > > > > > >At 12:21 AM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Potential Subsystems to replace: > > > X-Windows window manager > > > X-Windows itself > > > > > >When looking over your wiki page, I noticed these two things for Rome > 1.4. > > >Currently myself and 3 others (presently) are working on a windowing > system > > >for JOS to be used whenever it gets on it's feet enough to use it. We've > > >got lots of great ideas for this system, and it's coming along quiet > nicely > > >so far. I just released the first version of the media player that is > >going > > >to go with it. I just wanted to let you know that we were working on > this. > > >We'd work on something more pressing towards the front, but our > experience > > >is mostly GUI work and we fit in best here. > > > >I checked it out. It looks really nice. Thanks for the update. Once the > >re-org is underway, I think we should really help to promote your work > >because I didn't even know it was happening! Does your GUI rely on X > >windows or does it talk directly to the video drivers? > > > >-iain > > > _______________________________________________ > Josgui-devel mailing list > Jos...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel |
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From: Iain S. <iai...@ya...> - 2000-09-21 20:02:29
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At 02:39 PM 9/21/00 -0400, Matthew Schmidt wrote: > Ok, I forwarded this last message to our development mailing > list, as I'm >sure it'll be useful. Right now we'll stick with concentrating on a desktop >and window manager in swing. This is the quickest and easiest way to work >with it, and actually fits in with the Rome version of JOS. Cool. Sounds like the right approach. >We're working >on figuring out how to make other swing/awt apps work transparently with >the GUI. Our current thought is to use a modified ClassLoader >(ApplicationLauncher) and a ProcessDaemon to handle loading the classes. >For JosGUI specific apps, to handle docking those apps into the >taskbar/panel, they just need to add the default window listener as their >personal window listener. That won't solve the problem of exit methods that >call System.exit(0); as that will kill the entire JVM, but it's a start. Do >you know of anyway we can catch all AWTEvents without registering them >explicitly? That would be a big help. Also, is there a way we can catch >the System.exit() calls? We'll need to catch and ignore those. It would probably be best if you try and coordinate with Ryan Heise http://www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/~rheise/ and the rheise.os team. The process issues, custom classloader, etc are all implemented or being worked on as part of the rheise.os project. The rheise.os is really a java OS (unlike the kernel and vm which essentially are just part of what would normally be a chip) and addresses multiple processes in one vm. AWT issues are the current area of concentration since they've been causing some problems for him as well. So it would seem there can be a lot of cooperation and synergy if your two groups coordinate. As far as the System.exit call, I believe that Ryan is solving that by loading his own System class which reimplements exit() to return to his os. It's actually very clever and surprisingly seamless in operation. The other approach is to rewrite the classfile as its being loaded (sorta how you do post compile-time class instrumentation... and there's an article in the latest Java Developer Pro on doing it). I think Ryan's method is better though. > For the webstart technology, I'll have to look into how that > technology >works more. Doesn't it require a webserver to actually work? Nope. You need to be able to load things over http but you can do that in java without a browser. It really is slick and based on xml to boot (essentially representing an application, its dependencies, and how to update it all in xml) which seems to really mesh well with the concept of applications and icons (or "start up items") in a GUI. -iain >-----Original Message----- >From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@me...] >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:47 PM >To: Matthew Schmidt >Subject: RE: JOS GUI > > >At 12:12 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Well currently we were relying on whatever Swing and the core Java classes > >for showing the GUI. I hadn't really thought about talking directly to the > >video drivers. We had assumed that JOS would be packaging something >similar > >to the Java core classes and swing with the OS, then we'd use those. > >Yes. Eventually JOS will do so (implement swing independently). For now, >swing on xwindows will work though and it probably is a different project >to actually implement swing directly on video drivers. So for your GUI is >this doing a desktop and window manager in swing? Will other java >swing/awt applications need to be specially tweaked to work with your gui >or will it work transparently? > >Finally, I know you're looking into ways to launch gui aps and do start >menus and docks. How you checked out the webstart technology from sun? I >was thinking that might make a perfect installation/update/uninstall >technology for jos to adopt for all software installation/configuration. > > >PS> I don't have any experience with video drivers, so if we need to > >implement that way, we're going to need someone else with that kind of > >experience on the team. > >OK. I think we'll make that a separate project as its more a library >porting issue (swing on a raw graphics device) than anything specifically >GUI related. > >-iain > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@ya...] > >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:48 AM > >To: Matthew Schmidt > >Subject: Re: JOS GUI > > > > > >At 12:21 AM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Potential Subsystems to replace: > > > X-Windows window manager > > > X-Windows itself > > > > > >When looking over your wiki page, I noticed these two things for Rome >1.4. > > >Currently myself and 3 others (presently) are working on a windowing >system > > >for JOS to be used whenever it gets on it's feet enough to use it. We've > > >got lots of great ideas for this system, and it's coming along quiet >nicely > > >so far. I just released the first version of the media player that is > >going > > >to go with it. I just wanted to let you know that we were working on >this. > > >We'd work on something more pressing towards the front, but our >experience > > >is mostly GUI work and we fit in best here. > > > >I checked it out. It looks really nice. Thanks for the update. Once the > >re-org is underway, I think we should really help to promote your work > >because I didn't even know it was happening! Does your GUI rely on X > >windows or does it talk directly to the video drivers? > > > >-iain |
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From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-21 18:37:26
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Ok, I forwarded this last message to our development mailing list, as I'm sure it'll be useful. Right now we'll stick with concentrating on a desktop and window manager in swing. This is the quickest and easiest way to work with it, and actually fits in with the Rome version of JOS. We're working on figuring out how to make other swing/awt apps work transparently with the GUI. Our current thought is to use a modified ClassLoader (ApplicationLauncher) and a ProcessDaemon to handle loading the classes. For JosGUI specific apps, to handle docking those apps into the taskbar/panel, they just need to add the default window listener as their personal window listener. That won't solve the problem of exit methods that call System.exit(0); as that will kill the entire JVM, but it's a start. Do you know of anyway we can catch all AWTEvents without registering them explicitly? That would be a big help. Also, is there a way we can catch the System.exit() calls? We'll need to catch and ignore those. For the webstart technology, I'll have to look into how that technology works more. Doesn't it require a webserver to actually work? Matt -----Original Message----- From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@me...] Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:47 PM To: Matthew Schmidt Subject: RE: JOS GUI At 12:12 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: >Well currently we were relying on whatever Swing and the core Java classes >for showing the GUI. I hadn't really thought about talking directly to the >video drivers. We had assumed that JOS would be packaging something similar >to the Java core classes and swing with the OS, then we'd use those. Yes. Eventually JOS will do so (implement swing independently). For now, swing on xwindows will work though and it probably is a different project to actually implement swing directly on video drivers. So for your GUI is this doing a desktop and window manager in swing? Will other java swing/awt applications need to be specially tweaked to work with your gui or will it work transparently? Finally, I know you're looking into ways to launch gui aps and do start menus and docks. How you checked out the webstart technology from sun? I was thinking that might make a perfect installation/update/uninstall technology for jos to adopt for all software installation/configuration. >PS> I don't have any experience with video drivers, so if we need to >implement that way, we're going to need someone else with that kind of >experience on the team. OK. I think we'll make that a separate project as its more a library porting issue (swing on a raw graphics device) than anything specifically GUI related. -iain >-----Original Message----- >From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@ya...] >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:48 AM >To: Matthew Schmidt >Subject: Re: JOS GUI > > >At 12:21 AM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Potential Subsystems to replace: > > X-Windows window manager > > X-Windows itself > > > >When looking over your wiki page, I noticed these two things for Rome 1.4. > >Currently myself and 3 others (presently) are working on a windowing system > >for JOS to be used whenever it gets on it's feet enough to use it. We've > >got lots of great ideas for this system, and it's coming along quiet nicely > >so far. I just released the first version of the media player that is >going > >to go with it. I just wanted to let you know that we were working on this. > >We'd work on something more pressing towards the front, but our experience > >is mostly GUI work and we fit in best here. > >I checked it out. It looks really nice. Thanks for the update. Once the >re-org is underway, I think we should really help to promote your work >because I didn't even know it was happening! Does your GUI rely on X >windows or does it talk directly to the video drivers? > >-iain |
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From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-21 18:27:07
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Here's some ideas. Matt -----Original Message----- From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@me...] Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:47 PM To: Matthew Schmidt Subject: RE: JOS GUI At 12:12 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: >Well currently we were relying on whatever Swing and the core Java classes >for showing the GUI. I hadn't really thought about talking directly to the >video drivers. We had assumed that JOS would be packaging something similar >to the Java core classes and swing with the OS, then we'd use those. Yes. Eventually JOS will do so (implement swing independently). For now, swing on xwindows will work though and it probably is a different project to actually implement swing directly on video drivers. So for your GUI is this doing a desktop and window manager in swing? Will other java swing/awt applications need to be specially tweaked to work with your gui or will it work transparently? Finally, I know you're looking into ways to launch gui aps and do start menus and docks. How you checked out the webstart technology from sun? I was thinking that might make a perfect installation/update/uninstall technology for jos to adopt for all software installation/configuration. >PS> I don't have any experience with video drivers, so if we need to >implement that way, we're going to need someone else with that kind of >experience on the team. OK. I think we'll make that a separate project as its more a library porting issue (swing on a raw graphics device) than anything specifically GUI related. -iain >-----Original Message----- >From: Iain Shigeoka [mailto:iai...@ya...] >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:48 AM >To: Matthew Schmidt >Subject: Re: JOS GUI > > >At 12:21 AM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Potential Subsystems to replace: > > X-Windows window manager > > X-Windows itself > > > >When looking over your wiki page, I noticed these two things for Rome 1.4. > >Currently myself and 3 others (presently) are working on a windowing system > >for JOS to be used whenever it gets on it's feet enough to use it. We've > >got lots of great ideas for this system, and it's coming along quiet nicely > >so far. I just released the first version of the media player that is >going > >to go with it. I just wanted to let you know that we were working on this. > >We'd work on something more pressing towards the front, but our experience > >is mostly GUI work and we fit in best here. > >I checked it out. It looks really nice. Thanks for the update. Once the >re-org is underway, I think we should really help to promote your work >because I didn't even know it was happening! Does your GUI rely on X >windows or does it talk directly to the video drivers? > >-iain |
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From: Bob <bo...@fy...> - 2000-09-21 11:06:52
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> PS> I'm creating a jos...@li... list for product > release announcements. Such things as what I just wrote would be sent > there, not here. Also, I think Bob had some really great ideas, but I'll > let him get those sorted out into English and post them here. Once he does > that, I'll put them up on the website as sort of a path for us to follow. I will do that as soon as possible, right now I have hell in school so I guess I'll have to wait with that for a lill while. I guess I could make a draft (probably totaly incomprehenceable, as my english) this weekend. It does concern some ideas ragarding the desing, which will (if it works) make the GUI rather dynamic. /bob |
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From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-21 04:38:48
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Guys, I just released the first beta release of the JOS Media Player. The web page for our project is http://josgui.n3.net and you can find more information about the JOS Media Player there. Suffice to say that it works and displays most types of images quickly (JPG, GIF, ICO, XPM, PNG, TIF, BMP). The next thing for the media player is viewing movies which shouldn't be that hard. Also, you get the JIMI v.1.0 with the download of the media player. This library enables you to show all those different image types. Matt PS> I'm creating a jos...@li... list for product release announcements. Such things as what I just wrote would be sent there, not here. Also, I think Bob had some really great ideas, but I'll let him get those sorted out into English and post them here. Once he does that, I'll put them up on the website as sort of a path for us to follow. |
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From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-19 18:54:33
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I think we should use a little division of labor to start off with: Me: Working on the GUI design, getting some initial control panel stuff worked out (all GUI that is) Bob: ApplicationLauncher and Task Manager (have the task manager report stuff on all threads) Bill: Backend of storing desktop items and whatever else backend you know how to do Inigo (et al): JExplorer and integration (working with Bill and myself on that one) Once we get something working with a small combination of backend of frontend, we'll all come together and get the GUI working just how we want it. Like I said, grab a sourceforge account and let me know what it is so I can add you and so you can use the CVS. I'm also working on a JOS Media player. The first half (viewing images) works great (for JPG and GIF). I'm going to throw in the JIMI library so we can view all other sorts of images, unless the JMF does that for me. I'm going to start working on the video part of the project tonight, using JMF. Matt -----Original Message----- From: jos...@li... [mailto:jos...@li...]On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 6:49 AM To: JosGui-Devel Subject: Re: [Josgui-devel] Background Images On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Matthew Schmidt wrote: > Guys, > Tonight I got the code checked in that will let us add and remove > background images to the desktop. Right now it only lets you do one image > (bg.gif in the images directory) and only in the centered orientation, but > I'm going to work on a Control Panel type thing for the GUI so that users > can control that. I think we should all send our thoughts on what we think > should be included in the GUI for the first release, that way we have some > idea on where we should go with things. That's a good idea, i'll try to make something like a task-manager, right now I supose it will be a dummy one, since there are no real processes that we can control. /bob _______________________________________________ Josgui-devel mailing list Jos...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/josgui-devel |
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From: Bob <bo...@fy...> - 2000-09-19 10:19:48
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On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Matthew Schmidt wrote: > Guys, > Tonight I got the code checked in that will let us add and remove > background images to the desktop. Right now it only lets you do one image > (bg.gif in the images directory) and only in the centered orientation, but > I'm going to work on a Control Panel type thing for the GUI so that users > can control that. I think we should all send our thoughts on what we think > should be included in the GUI for the first release, that way we have some > idea on where we should go with things. That's a good idea, i'll try to make something like a task-manager, right now I supose it will be a dummy one, since there are no real processes that we can control. /bob |
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From: Matthew S. <mps...@un...> - 2000-09-19 04:26:16
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Guys, Tonight I got the code checked in that will let us add and remove background images to the desktop. Right now it only lets you do one image (bg.gif in the images directory) and only in the centered orientation, but I'm going to work on a Control Panel type thing for the GUI so that users can control that. I think we should all send our thoughts on what we think should be included in the GUI for the first release, that way we have some idea on where we should go with things. Matt |
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From: Bill G. <bil...@fa...> - 2000-09-18 23:46:50
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Welcome all to the GUI Developers list. Good work. -Bill |
