RE: [Jgimp-developers] FilmGimp integration

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Sam -

Thanks :) I didn't get this impression at all, I just wanted to say where
it is and is not useful, to make it clear what I view as the best use of
the project.

Mike
			-Michael Andrew Terry (mt...@cc...)

On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Sam Richards wrote:

> I do want to stress, I do not want to give you the impression that your
> project is without merit.
> It does seem cool and definately worth keeping an eye on, since I am sure
> there are numerous other applications for this stuff, especially if you are
> eventually able to use it to do some simple image processing without
> requiring gimp.
>
> Sam.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Andrew Terry [mailto:mt...@cc...]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:09 PM
> > To: 'jgi...@li...'
> > Subject: RE: [Jgimp-developers] FilmGimp integration
> >
> >
> > Sam -
> >
> > I agree with your assessment -- there are a number of aspects of JGimp
> > that make its inclusion as the default language binding for
> > scripts and
> > plug-ins problematic. From the developer's perspective, Java
> > is simply not
> > a scripting language -- it is a strongly typed language which
> > makes it a
> > clunky tool for writing quick scripts. From a Film Gimp deployment
> > perspective, it is troublesome because: a) you cannot assume
> > everyone will
> > have Java on their machine (and the current version at that),
> > and b) Java
> > is not an open source software project that everyone will
> > have on their
> > favorite Unix CD for a quick install (and there are no open source
> > versions worthy of consideration at this point). These characteristics
> > raise the barrier to having a working installation "out of
> > the box" and
> > prevent users from quickly and easily getting to the point
> > where they can
> > write scripts. Obviously, these are not impediments you want to have
> > between your application and your user base. For these
> > reasons, I agree
> > with you -- it does not make sense to have JGimp as the primary,
> > default "scripting" language for Film Gimp.
> >
> > I should note that this does not mean JGimp is completely
> > without purpose.
> > It does exactly what we need for our research purposes --
> > provide a way to
> > use the GIMP from Java. But as a general-purpose, quick-and-dirty
> > scripting language, it doesn't cut it. Furthermore, since we
> > don't really
> > need a lot of support for rapid script development, we will not be
> > expending any significant effort in the near future to
> > enhance JGimp in
> > this fashion -- our work rests in developing user interfaces,
> > not filters
> > That said, it is not difficult to create a language binding
> > to the GIMP.
> > There are only a handful of functions that need to be wrapped
> > initially,
> > and more sophisticated functionality can be added later. The PyGimp
> > interface in particular seems well done. It includes nice
> > classes wrapping
> > core GIMP functions, and will automatically generate user
> > interfaces for
> > scripts. Given your existing work with Perl and the ubiquity
> > of Perl and
> > Perl programmers, this too seems a better choice than JGimp.
> >
> > That said, it is not difficult to create a language binding
> > to the GIMP,
> > as you may be discovering with your work with Perl. I also read up on
> > PyGimp this weekend and was impressed by its design. It includes nice
> > classes wrapping core GIMP functions, and automatically generates user
> > interfaces for scripts.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > 			-Michael Andrew Terry (mt...@cc...)
> >
> > On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Sam Richards wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > I'm sorry, but I am really not into spending my copious free time on
> > > auto-detecting java installations, especially since we will
> > have to do that
> > > on 3 platforms. I am also very doubtful as to the benifits
> > of having java as
> > > the primary scripting language. It really doesnt make sense to me.
> > >
> > > I dont have a problem in possibly adding it to the plugin
> > package, so that
> > > if somebody wants to compile it in, they can, but making it
> > a requirement
> > > just seems rather pointless.
> > >
> > > One of the great things you are doing with the
> > plugin-archecture is tieing
> > > it much closer to the orginal application. With the
> > eventual idea that all
> > > the tools (text, brushes) are plugins, and that all plugins
> > can have full
> > > control over the GUI. Jgimp seems to be the reverse of
> > that. I can see how
> > > it works well within the current gimp system, but it seems
> > to be forcing us
> > > to have all GUI controls for the scripting language to go
> > through the Java
> > > UI, that doesnt seem integrated to me at all.
> > >
> > > I am definately warming to the general concept that you
> > have that we should
> > > attempt (at least for the moment) of making filmgimp fairly
> > script neutral,
> > > since different studios will continue to use different
> > scripting languages.
> > > In the meantime, I think we really need to focus on other
> > things that are
> > > more critical.
> > >
> > > Having said that, I will attempt to complete the perl
> > bindings, but with
> > > that too, I dont think it should be a requirement to have
> > that fully working
> > > on all platforms at the moment, I really havent seen any
> > working plugins
> > > that I think are essential to do work. However, it is
> > important for testing.
> > >
> > > In the meantime, I am going to finish of the brushes (I
> > still have the
> > > clone, eraser and dodge/burn brushes to get working with
> > some minimal
> > > pressure sensitivity).
> > >
> > > Sam.
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Robin Rowe [mailto:ro...@Mo...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:09 PM
> > > > To: jgi...@li...
> > > > Subject: Re: [Jgimp-developers] FilmGimp integration
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sam,
> > > >
> > > > > They either dont install it, or have their own version.
> > > >
> > > > Mozilla detects or installs Sun's JDK, I think.
> > > >
> > > >     http://www.mozillanews.org/index.php3?article=31
> > > >     The majority of the size increase is the inclusion of
> > Sun's Java 2
> > > > package.
> > > >
> > > > K-Meleon and Opera handles optional installation of the Sun
> > > > JDK. We can look
> > > > to those for ideas, too.
> > > >
> > > >     K-Meleon (http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/docs/relnotes07.php):
> > > > a.. You must first install the Java Runtime Environment (JRE)
> > > > to run Java
> > > > applets in K-Meleon. Once installed, K-Meleon automatically
> > > > detects your JRE
> > > > installation and no other configuration is necessary.
> > > > a.. K-Meleon has been tested with JRE 1.4. You can download
> > > > JRE 1.4 from
> > > > http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/download.html. To see if JRE
> > is properly
> > > > installed, type about:plugins in the URL bar. If you see
> > Java Plug-in
> > > > listed, K-Meleon properly recognizes the JRE.
> > > >
> > > > Opera:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=459
> > > > http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/6/day02-install/
> > > >
> > http://list.opera.com/pipermail/opera-users/2000-December/001384.html
> > > >
> > > > Linux Java:
> > > >
> > > > http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Prog
> > > ramming/linux/
> > > http://lwn.net/2001/0719/desktop.php3
> > >
> > > Hope this helps. May take a little research to iron out auto-detect
> > > installation.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Robin
> > >
> > >
> > >
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