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RE: [Jgimp-developers] FilmGimp integration
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From: Sam R. <sa...@im...> - 2003-02-06 22:32:52
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I do want to stress, I do not want to give you the impression that your project is without merit. It does seem cool and definately worth keeping an eye on, since I am sure there are numerous other applications for this stuff, especially if you are eventually able to use it to do some simple image processing without requiring gimp. Sam. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Andrew Terry [mailto:mt...@cc...] > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:09 PM > To: 'jgi...@li...' > Subject: RE: [Jgimp-developers] FilmGimp integration > > > Sam - > > I agree with your assessment -- there are a number of aspects of JGimp > that make its inclusion as the default language binding for > scripts and > plug-ins problematic. From the developer's perspective, Java > is simply not > a scripting language -- it is a strongly typed language which > makes it a > clunky tool for writing quick scripts. From a Film Gimp deployment > perspective, it is troublesome because: a) you cannot assume > everyone will > have Java on their machine (and the current version at that), > and b) Java > is not an open source software project that everyone will > have on their > favorite Unix CD for a quick install (and there are no open source > versions worthy of consideration at this point). These characteristics > raise the barrier to having a working installation "out of > the box" and > prevent users from quickly and easily getting to the point > where they can > write scripts. Obviously, these are not impediments you want to have > between your application and your user base. For these > reasons, I agree > with you -- it does not make sense to have JGimp as the primary, > default "scripting" language for Film Gimp. > > I should note that this does not mean JGimp is completely > without purpose. > It does exactly what we need for our research purposes -- > provide a way to > use the GIMP from Java. But as a general-purpose, quick-and-dirty > scripting language, it doesn't cut it. Furthermore, since we > don't really > need a lot of support for rapid script development, we will not be > expending any significant effort in the near future to > enhance JGimp in > this fashion -- our work rests in developing user interfaces, > not filters > That said, it is not difficult to create a language binding > to the GIMP. > There are only a handful of functions that need to be wrapped > initially, > and more sophisticated functionality can be added later. The PyGimp > interface in particular seems well done. It includes nice > classes wrapping > core GIMP functions, and will automatically generate user > interfaces for > scripts. Given your existing work with Perl and the ubiquity > of Perl and > Perl programmers, this too seems a better choice than JGimp. > > That said, it is not difficult to create a language binding > to the GIMP, > as you may be discovering with your work with Perl. I also read up on > PyGimp this weekend and was impressed by its design. It includes nice > classes wrapping core GIMP functions, and automatically generates user > interfaces for scripts. > > Cheers, > > Mike > > -Michael Andrew Terry (mt...@cc...) > > On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Sam Richards wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm sorry, but I am really not into spending my copious free time on > > auto-detecting java installations, especially since we will > have to do that > > on 3 platforms. I am also very doubtful as to the benifits > of having java as > > the primary scripting language. It really doesnt make sense to me. > > > > I dont have a problem in possibly adding it to the plugin > package, so that > > if somebody wants to compile it in, they can, but making it > a requirement > > just seems rather pointless. > > > > One of the great things you are doing with the > plugin-archecture is tieing > > it much closer to the orginal application. With the > eventual idea that all > > the tools (text, brushes) are plugins, and that all plugins > can have full > > control over the GUI. Jgimp seems to be the reverse of > that. I can see how > > it works well within the current gimp system, but it seems > to be forcing us > > to have all GUI controls for the scripting language to go > through the Java > > UI, that doesnt seem integrated to me at all. > > > > I am definately warming to the general concept that you > have that we should > > attempt (at least for the moment) of making filmgimp fairly > script neutral, > > since different studios will continue to use different > scripting languages. > > In the meantime, I think we really need to focus on other > things that are > > more critical. > > > > Having said that, I will attempt to complete the perl > bindings, but with > > that too, I dont think it should be a requirement to have > that fully working > > on all platforms at the moment, I really havent seen any > working plugins > > that I think are essential to do work. However, it is > important for testing. > > > > In the meantime, I am going to finish of the brushes (I > still have the > > clone, eraser and dodge/burn brushes to get working with > some minimal > > pressure sensitivity). > > > > Sam. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Robin Rowe [mailto:ro...@Mo...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:09 PM > > > To: jgi...@li... > > > Subject: Re: [Jgimp-developers] FilmGimp integration > > > > > > > > > Sam, > > > > > > > They either dont install it, or have their own version. > > > > > > Mozilla detects or installs Sun's JDK, I think. > > > > > > http://www.mozillanews.org/index.php3?article=31 > > > The majority of the size increase is the inclusion of > Sun's Java 2 > > > package. > > > > > > K-Meleon and Opera handles optional installation of the Sun > > > JDK. We can look > > > to those for ideas, too. > > > > > > K-Meleon (http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/docs/relnotes07.php): > > > a.. You must first install the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) > > > to run Java > > > applets in K-Meleon. Once installed, K-Meleon automatically > > > detects your JRE > > > installation and no other configuration is necessary. > > > a.. K-Meleon has been tested with JRE 1.4. You can download > > > JRE 1.4 from > > > http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/download.html. To see if JRE > is properly > > > installed, type about:plugins in the URL bar. If you see > Java Plug-in > > > listed, K-Meleon properly recognizes the JRE. > > > > > > Opera: > > > > > > http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=459 > > > http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/6/day02-install/ > > > > http://list.opera.com/pipermail/opera-users/2000-December/001384.html > > > > > > Linux Java: > > > > > > http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Prog > > ramming/linux/ > > http://lwn.net/2001/0719/desktop.php3 > > > > Hope this helps. May take a little research to iron out auto-detect > > installation. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Robin > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: > > SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! > > http://www.vasoftware.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Jgimp-developers mailing list > > Jgi...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jgimp-developers > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: > > SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! > > http://www.vasoftware.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Jgimp-developers mailing list > > Jgi...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jgimp-developers > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: > SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! > http://www.vasoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > Jgimp-developers mailing list > Jgi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jgimp-developers > |
