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RE: [Jgimp-developers] FilmGimp integration
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From: Michael A. T. <mt...@cc...> - 2003-02-06 22:09:43
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Sam - I agree with your assessment -- there are a number of aspects of JGimp that make its inclusion as the default language binding for scripts and plug-ins problematic. From the developer's perspective, Java is simply not a scripting language -- it is a strongly typed language which makes it a clunky tool for writing quick scripts. From a Film Gimp deployment perspective, it is troublesome because: a) you cannot assume everyone will have Java on their machine (and the current version at that), and b) Java is not an open source software project that everyone will have on their favorite Unix CD for a quick install (and there are no open source versions worthy of consideration at this point). These characteristics raise the barrier to having a working installation "out of the box" and prevent users from quickly and easily getting to the point where they can write scripts. Obviously, these are not impediments you want to have between your application and your user base. For these reasons, I agree with you -- it does not make sense to have JGimp as the primary, default "scripting" language for Film Gimp. I should note that this does not mean JGimp is completely without purpose. It does exactly what we need for our research purposes -- provide a way to use the GIMP from Java. But as a general-purpose, quick-and-dirty scripting language, it doesn't cut it. Furthermore, since we don't really need a lot of support for rapid script development, we will not be expending any significant effort in the near future to enhance JGimp in this fashion -- our work rests in developing user interfaces, not filters That said, it is not difficult to create a language binding to the GIMP. There are only a handful of functions that need to be wrapped initially, and more sophisticated functionality can be added later. The PyGimp interface in particular seems well done. It includes nice classes wrapping core GIMP functions, and will automatically generate user interfaces for scripts. Given your existing work with Perl and the ubiquity of Perl and Perl programmers, this too seems a better choice than JGimp. That said, it is not difficult to create a language binding to the GIMP, as you may be discovering with your work with Perl. I also read up on PyGimp this weekend and was impressed by its design. It includes nice classes wrapping core GIMP functions, and automatically generates user interfaces for scripts. Cheers, Mike -Michael Andrew Terry (mt...@cc...) On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Sam Richards wrote: > Hi, > I'm sorry, but I am really not into spending my copious free time on > auto-detecting java installations, especially since we will have to do that > on 3 platforms. I am also very doubtful as to the benifits of having java as > the primary scripting language. It really doesnt make sense to me. > > I dont have a problem in possibly adding it to the plugin package, so that > if somebody wants to compile it in, they can, but making it a requirement > just seems rather pointless. > > One of the great things you are doing with the plugin-archecture is tieing > it much closer to the orginal application. With the eventual idea that all > the tools (text, brushes) are plugins, and that all plugins can have full > control over the GUI. Jgimp seems to be the reverse of that. I can see how > it works well within the current gimp system, but it seems to be forcing us > to have all GUI controls for the scripting language to go through the Java > UI, that doesnt seem integrated to me at all. > > I am definately warming to the general concept that you have that we should > attempt (at least for the moment) of making filmgimp fairly script neutral, > since different studios will continue to use different scripting languages. > In the meantime, I think we really need to focus on other things that are > more critical. > > Having said that, I will attempt to complete the perl bindings, but with > that too, I dont think it should be a requirement to have that fully working > on all platforms at the moment, I really havent seen any working plugins > that I think are essential to do work. However, it is important for testing. > > In the meantime, I am going to finish of the brushes (I still have the > clone, eraser and dodge/burn brushes to get working with some minimal > pressure sensitivity). > > Sam. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robin Rowe [mailto:ro...@Mo...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:09 PM > > To: jgi...@li... > > Subject: Re: [Jgimp-developers] FilmGimp integration > > > > > > Sam, > > > > > They either dont install it, or have their own version. > > > > Mozilla detects or installs Sun's JDK, I think. > > > > http://www.mozillanews.org/index.php3?article=31 > > The majority of the size increase is the inclusion of Sun's Java 2 > > package. > > > > K-Meleon and Opera handles optional installation of the Sun > > JDK. We can look > > to those for ideas, too. > > > > K-Meleon (http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/docs/relnotes07.php): > > a.. You must first install the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) > > to run Java > > applets in K-Meleon. Once installed, K-Meleon automatically > > detects your JRE > > installation and no other configuration is necessary. > > a.. K-Meleon has been tested with JRE 1.4. You can download > > JRE 1.4 from > > http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/download.html. To see if JRE is properly > > installed, type about:plugins in the URL bar. If you see Java Plug-in > > listed, K-Meleon properly recognizes the JRE. > > > > Opera: > > > > http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=459 > > http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/6/day02-install/ > > http://list.opera.com/pipermail/opera-users/2000-December/001384.html > > > > Linux Java: > > > > http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Prog > ramming/linux/ > http://lwn.net/2001/0719/desktop.php3 > > Hope this helps. May take a little research to iron out auto-detect > installation. > > Cheers, > > Robin > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: > SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! > http://www.vasoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > Jgimp-developers mailing list > Jgi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jgimp-developers > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: > SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! > http://www.vasoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > Jgimp-developers mailing list > Jgi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jgimp-developers > |
