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From: D.B. M. <db...@ho...> - 2008-05-16 05:11:22
Attachments:
latency-example-1.mp3
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Greets, > Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 22:31:41 -0400 > Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Thoughts about the linux kernel - observed trends > > On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 02:03 +0000, D.B. Moore wrote: >> Greetings, >> > (snip) >> >> >> I think what I eventually might do, is put some sound files up >> on our site, which **audibly** demonstrate to users artifacts >> of sound quality directly related to linux kernel latency issues. >> >> That'd be about the best thing to do...IMHO....to help users >> conclude whether or not they need a better (faster) kernel >> for their setup. Hope this helps... >> >> Regards, >> >> Donald B >> >> > > I tried Jazz++ a couple of ways, both quite good: > > * my ux16 USB midi interface hitches to a Motif ES8 which together has > excellent sound quality. > Good to hear...(another pun ;) No timing issues? Don't be scared to be verbose if what you're doing relates directly to Jazz++'s performance in the real world. > * The software synth I like is ZynAddSubFX produces its own pleasing > sound. I use Hydrogen for its drum set. Rosegarden does this, and I > think Jazz++ can too. (I didn't run Hydrogen from it yet.) If you do, be sure to let us know if it works okay. I do know about zyn & lv2, in fact I've just installed that kit here on my box - but as is common with a lot of us here, I haven't yet found the time to play with it....but I will get to it... > > Probably I need to modify the kernel to hear how good the native midi > is. > You just know I'm going to ask what makes you think that, don't you? ;-) Subsequent to my previous posting, and carrying my notion forward about putting soundfiles somewhere that people can listen to and then conclude whether or not they have linux kernel latency issues with their softsynth setup.... Pete, can you put this attached mp3 file in..'some appropriate location' for me please? I'm thinking about a yet undiscussed 'FAQ' area, and anywhere else kernel latency issues are touched on, it'd be handy to be able to link back to this location...I'm sure you get the idea here ;-) Bob, listen to the attached mp3 and the sound of the softsynth loosing the plot entirely, until timelag detection code realizes something gone terribly wrong and realigns the datastream with where the hardware is 'right now' as it were. . This was rendered a few years ago now on a x86_32 with an AMD athlon 3000+ CPU using AMS on one of my own linux builds. IIRC the timing glitche started out as a 0.002 second deviance, rising to 0.09 second deviance before the code kicked itself in the pants. Remember I said this area was a minefield?...yeah, well some of these timing related issues are not entirely the kernel or the software's fault -- it can actually be related to the motherboard chipset being used and/or the state of play with a particular chipset's driver (in linux). A good example is what you hear in this mp3, which is going to be heard a -lot- more by folks with a VIA chipset mainboard (x86), because this is a known issue with linux/VIA chipsets, and it doesn't affect just the things we're talking about here - DMA and interrupt issues with VIA chipsets can plague the video, fb, any manner of things.. ....and, just as an example of HOW weird and obscure this can get, I have a VIA epia-tc10000 board here that initially gave me all sorts of heck, and I did hours and hours of mucking around with it before I discovered the effective fix was actually to email the VIA techsupp crowd about it, who replied with a link to a beta version BIOS image ...so the problem was in BIOS all along, and seemingly only affected use with a linux kernel...go figure... Oh...and for the record, what you're hearing in this sound snippet, (the sound you're supposed to hear :), is a free running AMS patch I did up for an arty friend who wanted some kind of eerie spacey sort of ambiance as a sound prop for her display installation. I used to call this patch "Trapped on a Dalek spaceship with the BBC Radiophonic Orchestra" ;-) Regards, Donald B > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Are you paid what you're worth? Find out: SEEK Salary Centre >> http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fcareer%2Dresources%2Fsalary%2Dcentre%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Asc%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_endtext_salary&_m=EXT >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> jazzplusplus-devel mailing list >> jaz...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > jazzplusplus-devel mailing list > jaz...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel _________________________________________________________________ Are you paid what you're worth? Find out: SEEK Salary Centre http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fcareer%2Dresources%2Fsalary%2Dcentre%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Asc%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_endtext_salary&_m=EXT |
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From: Pete S. <pst...@gm...> - 2008-05-17 20:48:49
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DM = D.B. Moore DM> Subsequent to my previous posting, and carrying my DM> notion forward about putting soundfiles somewhere DM> that people can listen to and then conclude whether DM> or not they have linux kernel latency issues with DM> their softsynth setup.... DM> DM> Pete, can you put this attached mp3 file in..'some DM> appropriate location' for me please? I'm thinking DM> about a yet undiscussed 'FAQ' area, and anywhere else DM> kernel latency issues are touched on, it'd be handy to DM> be able to link back to this location...I'm sure you DM> get the idea here ;-) I put the file on the web under htdocs/soundsamples/latency-example-1.mp3. For the sake of "roalty-free open-source" blah, blah blah... We may also want to post OGG files. I also put the file in subversion. Pete |
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From: Robert V. <vo...@ct...> - 2008-05-18 01:47:36
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On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 05:11 +0000, D.B. Moore wrote: > Greets, > > > Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 22:31:41 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Thoughts about the linux kernel - observed trends > > > > On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 02:03 +0000, D.B. Moore wrote: > >> Greetings, > >> > > (snip) > >> > >> > >> I think what I eventually might do, is put some sound files up > >> on our site, which **audibly** demonstrate to users artifacts > >> of sound quality directly related to linux kernel latency issues. > >> > >> That'd be about the best thing to do...IMHO....to help users > >> conclude whether or not they need a better (faster) kernel > >> for their setup. Hope this helps... > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Donald B > >> > >> > > > > I tried Jazz++ a couple of ways, both quite good: > > > > * my ux16 USB midi interface hitches to a Motif ES8 which together has > > excellent sound quality. > > > > Good to hear...(another pun ;) No timing issues? Don't be scared to be verbose > if what you're doing relates directly to Jazz++'s performance in the real world. > > > > * The software synth I like is ZynAddSubFX produces its own pleasing > > sound. I use Hydrogen for its drum set. Rosegarden does this, and I > > think Jazz++ can too. (I didn't run Hydrogen from it yet.) > > If you do, be sure to let us know if it works okay. I do know about zyn & lv2, > in fact I've just installed that kit here on my box - but as is common with a lot > of us here, I haven't yet found the time to play with it....but I will get to it... > > > > > Probably I need to modify the kernel to hear how good the native midi > > is. > > > > You just know I'm going to ask what makes you think that, don't you? ;-) > > > Subsequent to my previous posting, and carrying my notion forward > about putting soundfiles somewhere that people can listen to and then > conclude whether or not they have linux kernel latency issues with their > softsynth setup.... > > Pete, can you put this attached mp3 file in..'some appropriate location' > for me please? I'm thinking about a yet undiscussed 'FAQ' area, and > anywhere else kernel latency issues are touched on, it'd be handy to > be able to link back to this location...I'm sure you get the idea here ;-) > > Bob, listen to the attached mp3 and the sound of the softsynth loosing > the plot entirely, until timelag detection code realizes something gone > terribly wrong and realigns the datastream with where the hardware > is 'right now' as it were. . > > This was rendered a few years ago now on a x86_32 with an AMD > athlon 3000+ CPU using AMS on one of my own linux builds. IIRC > the timing glitche started out as a 0.002 second deviance, rising to > 0.09 second deviance before the code kicked itself in the pants. > > Remember I said this area was a minefield?...yeah, well some of these > timing related issues are not entirely the kernel or the software's > fault -- it can actually be related to the motherboard chipset being used > and/or the state of play with a particular chipset's driver (in linux). > A good example is what you hear in this mp3, which is going to be > heard a -lot- more by folks with a VIA chipset mainboard (x86), > because this is a known issue with linux/VIA chipsets, and it doesn't > affect just the things we're talking about here - DMA and interrupt > issues with VIA chipsets can plague the video, fb, any manner of things.. > > ....and, just as an example of HOW weird and obscure this can get, > I have a VIA epia-tc10000 board here that initially gave me all sorts > of heck, and I did hours and hours of mucking around with it before > I discovered the effective fix was actually to email the VIA techsupp > crowd about it, who replied with a link to a beta version BIOS image > ...so the problem was in BIOS all along, and seemingly only affected > use with a linux kernel...go figure... > > Oh...and for the record, what you're hearing in this sound snippet, > (the sound you're supposed to hear :), is a free running AMS patch > I did up for an arty friend who wanted some kind of eerie spacey > sort of ambiance as a sound prop for her display installation. I used > to call this patch "Trapped on a Dalek spaceship with the BBC > Radiophonic Orchestra" ;-) > > Regards, > > Donald B > > Hi Donald, Your mp3 sounds pretty good to me...except it's a little scratchy. Perhaps that could be filtered out ? I am running the standard Debian kernel using a dual-core 3.0 Ghz processor. I'm thinking that it would be better if I went with the 64studio distribution or, even beyond that, upgrade to a 64 bit processor, but that will be a few months away. Jazz++ performs pretty well with a small number of tracks, but I did notice if rendering a 16 track file it does break up some. The metronome seems to work now...although the sound is not right. Definitely not a drum sound. Aconnectgui, when I try to do additional configuration, locks up badly. So much that I couldn't kill it and at one point had to forcibly power down. There has to be a problem with it. Bob |
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From: Pete S. <pst...@gm...> - 2008-05-18 02:04:59
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RV = Robert Vogel RV> Hi Donald, RV> RV> Your mp3 sounds pretty good to me...except it's RV> a little scratchy. Perhaps that could be filtered out? I though that was illustrating the latency problem. Am I incorrect? RV> Jazz++ performs pretty well with a small number of RV> tracks, but I did notice if rendering a 16 track RV> file it does break up some. Hey Robert. By default, the instructions walk you through a debug build. At the configure step, remove the --enable-debug option and see if that helps. RV> The metronome seems to work now...although the RV> sound is not right. Definitely not a drum sound. Try the "Settings | Metronome..." dialog to change the sound used. Pete |
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From: D.B. M. <db...@ho...> - 2008-05-18 03:25:47
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---------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 19:04:56 -0700 > Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Thoughts about the linux kernel - observed trends > > RV = Robert Vogel > RV> Hi Donald, > RV> > RV> Your mp3 sounds pretty good to me...except it's > RV> a little scratchy. Perhaps that could be filtered out? > >PS=Pete >PS=I though that was illustrating the latency problem. Am I incorrect? > Absolutely not, you're spot on Pete...... Bob, that 'scratchy' sound you refer to **IS** an example of softsynth latency problems. It is in no way the same sound artifact as one would hear replaying an old scratched vinyl record - and it cannot be filtered out. (one can see all this if the waveform is examined in audacity) > RV> Jazz++ performs pretty well with a small number of > RV> tracks, but I did notice if rendering a 16 track > RV> file it does break up some. > > Hey Robert. By default, the instructions walk you through a debug > build. At the configure step, remove the --enable-debug option and see > if that helps. Is this with external MIDI synth? It'd be interesting to know if the softsynth gags on 16tracks...I'll check this later myself > > RV> The metronome seems to work now...although the > RV> sound is not right. Definitely not a drum sound. > > Try the "Settings | Metronome..." dialog to change the sound used. > > > Pete Regards, Donald B _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT |
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