java-gnome-developer

[Java-gnome-developer] GNOME Web Start

[Benjamin P. J. <bp...@te...>]

Hi all,

I'm new to this list and didn't bother to read the whole history, so
please forgive me if the idea which I want to present ain't new at
all. :-)

I have never ever written an application using GTK/GNOME, but my skills
as a Java programmer are quite good. I played around with the java-gnome
binding itself and was surprised how easy it is to create a nice GUI
using Glade and then actually loading it using the excellent java-gnome
bindings... the documentation on how to do all the tricky things sucks /
is just not completed. My English isn't very good as it ain't my native
tongue but I could to do some German translations if needed.

But now to my actual idea:
I'm using Java Web Start to deploy most of my Java/Swing applications.
It's a clean and easy way to keep all users of a software product
up-to-date.  See http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/
It's a technology that 'just works' (tm).
I haven't tried yet,... but it should be possible without too many
problems to deploy applications that use the java-gnome bindings via
Java Web Start, too. Java Web Start uses the Java Net Launching Protocol
(JNLP) which is a well documented standard provided by SUN Microsystems.
You browse the web, download a jnlp file (XML format) and hand it over
to your Web Start application which does the rest for you. It downloads
all the required JAR files and (if needed) native libraries, it handles
permission control and security (all JAR files need to be digitally
signed).

Why not write a clone of SUN's original Java Web Start which acts as an
JNLP interpreter and handles start menu / desktop integration, caching
and updates of already installed Web Start applications and libraries...
JNLP spec.: http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/download-spec.html

Maybe the idea is dumb, but it could become some kind of killer
application. I'm speaking of an application to deploy platform
independent Java applications that integrate nicely into your GNOME
desktop. (It might be extended at some further point to be able to load
and deploy apps that are e.g. written in python).

Test page for my 1st attempt of a java-gnome application that can be
started via SUN's Java Web Start:
http://phreakzone.com/~bpjung/projects/gws/gws.jnlp (ain't working, yet)

The goal should be to create an application that runs using SableVM or
any other open source Java Runtime. Maybe it's overkill to use JNLP and
the first goal should be to create a data format that is slightly easier
to handle... comments anybody?


Have fun...
  Benjamin

Re: [Java-gnome-developer] GNOME Web Start

[Mark H. <mh...@ti...>]

I've never used java web start, but it's certainly an interesting idea. Do
java-gnome users want this?

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Re: [Java-gnome-developer] GNOME Web Start

[Jerry H. <jh...@fe...>]

Yes. Java web start is awesome. Making a similar thing possible with
Gnome/GTK would be awesome. However, I have gone down this path before.

GTK/Gnome are native libs. This means, for the JWS program to run, it
cannot do so in a sandbox. The user gets an ugly message telling them
not to do it.

GTK/Gnome do not use Java class loader to load their resouses: such as
icons, themes, .gtkrc files, and the like. There isn't a good way to do
this with JWS. Gtk/Gnome would have to be able to load their resources
out of a Classloader. Perhaps adding a callback to GTK's file operations
that lets you plug in arbitrary ways to retrieve a byte[] or something.

Both of the above cases could more properly be solved in the same way
Swing/AWTs are. When a Swing program is downloaded from JWS, it does not
download the entirety of the Swing and AWT libraries: they are located
on the local machine. AWT uses JNI (or something) to interface with the
native machine to do it's graphic rendering... and JWS doesn't give you
a warning about this (just like an applet). Basically somebody has
configured a security manager of some sort to trust Swing/AWT. So,
Java-Gnome is installed locally and given permission to do what it
needs. Obviously this makes one click deployment not quite work...
except that your Linux distribution SHOULD distribute Java-Gnome by
default!!!

Re: [Java-gnome-developer] GNOME Web Start

[Benjamin J. <bp...@gm...>]

> Yes. Java web start is awesome. Making a similar thing possible with
> Gnome/GTK would be awesome. However, I have gone down this path before.
> 
> GTK/Gnome are native libs. This means, for the JWS program to run, it
> cannot do so in a sandbox. The user gets an ugly message telling them
> not to do it.
> 
> GTK/Gnome do not use Java class loader to load their resouses: such as
> icons, themes, .gtkrc files, and the like. There isn't a good way to do
> this with JWS. Gtk/Gnome would have to be able to load their resources
> out of a Classloader. Perhaps adding a callback to GTK's file operations
> that lets you plug in arbitrary ways to retrieve a byte[] or something.
> 
> Both of the above cases could more properly be solved in the same way
> Swing/AWTs are. When a Swing program is downloaded from JWS, it does not
> download the entirety of the Swing and AWT libraries: they are located
> on the local machine. AWT uses JNI (or something) to interface with the
> native machine to do it's graphic rendering... and JWS doesn't give you
> a warning about this (just like an applet). Basically somebody has
> configured a security manager of some sort to trust Swing/AWT. So,
> Java-Gnome is installed locally and given permission to do what it
> needs. Obviously this makes one click deployment not quite work...
> except that your Linux distribution SHOULD distribute Java-Gnome by
> default!!!
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Java-gnome-developer] GNOME Web Start

[Robert S. <the...@gm...>]

Hi Benjamin,
first of all. Java WebStart is the name of Sun's implementation of a 
JNLP client. Its not the only one out there.
A Free implementation is OpenJNLP (http://openjnlp.nanode.org/ - Mozilla 
Public License). Unfortunately it was
not updated since December 2002. Maybe you could use this as a base for 
you work or at least get some ideas from
it (I personally would like to see a JNLP client that is licensed under 
GPL).

Btw: Java-Gnome may add a service to the JNLP API allowing applications 
to query whether Java-Gnome is available
(and which version.). For more infos about that API have a look here: 
http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/docs/javadoc/index.html

cu
Robert

Benjamin P. Jung wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm new to this list and didn't bother to read the whole history, so
>please forgive me if the idea which I want to present ain't new at
>all. :-)
>
>I have never ever written an application using GTK/GNOME, but my skills
>as a Java programmer are quite good. I played around with the java-gnome
>binding itself and was surprised how easy it is to create a nice GUI
>using Glade and then actually loading it using the excellent java-gnome
>bindings... the documentation on how to do all the tricky things sucks /
>is just not completed. My English isn't very good as it ain't my native
>tongue but I could to do some German translations if needed.
>
>But now to my actual idea:
>I'm using Java Web Start to deploy most of my Java/Swing applications.
>It's a clean and easy way to keep all users of a software product
>up-to-date.  See http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/
>It's a technology that 'just works' (tm).
>I haven't tried yet,... but it should be possible without too many
>problems to deploy applications that use the java-gnome bindings via
>Java Web Start, too. Java Web Start uses the Java Net Launching Protocol
>(JNLP) which is a well documented standard provided by SUN Microsystems.
>You browse the web, download a jnlp file (XML format) and hand it over
>to your Web Start application which does the rest for you. It downloads
>all the required JAR files and (if needed) native libraries, it handles
>permission control and security (all JAR files need to be digitally
>signed).
>
>Why not write a clone of SUN's original Java Web Start which acts as an
>JNLP interpreter and handles start menu / desktop integration, caching
>and updates of already installed Web Start applications and libraries...
>JNLP spec.: http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/download-spec.html
>
>Maybe the idea is dumb, but it could become some kind of killer
>application. I'm speaking of an application to deploy platform
>independent Java applications that integrate nicely into your GNOME
>desktop. (It might be extended at some further point to be able to load
>and deploy apps that are e.g. written in python).
>
>Test page for my 1st attempt of a java-gnome application that can be
>started via SUN's Java Web Start:
>http://phreakzone.com/~bpjung/projects/gws/gws.jnlp (ain't working, yet)
>
>The goal should be to create an application that runs using SableVM or
>any other open source Java Runtime. Maybe it's overkill to use JNLP and
>the first goal should be to create a data format that is slightly easier
>to handle... comments anybody?
>
>
>Have fun...
>  Benjamin
>  
>