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From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-12-23 02:00:30
|
On Mon, 2009-12-21 at 23:33 +0300, Alexey Titov wrote:
> Hello. As I understand, there is no way to get value for GtkTreeModel
> from Java. I have to set all values into TreeStore or ListStore before
TreeStore and ListStore are TreeModels
> use it. Sometimes it rather expensive...
TreeModel is nothing more than what you populate to have things appear
in a TreeView. Don't try to use it as a real data structure. We have the
Java language for that. From the documentation for DataColum:
"Keep in mind that you do not need to store all your application
data in the TreeModel. After all, you already have a perfectly
sound (and infinitely more powerful) means to model and
represent your data: the Java language you're working from in
the first place.
You only need to push data into a TreeModel that will be
directly displayed by a TreeView or that will be used to help
manage that display (such as using a numeric type as an
auxiliary sorting index for textual columns that otherwise
wouldn't order properly).
Quite frequently, however, you will want to take a selection or
activation event from the TreeView and get back to the Java
object that where the displayed data came from in the first
place. This is the role of the other significant column type,
DataColumnReference."
http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/doc/api/org/gnome/gtk/DataColumn.html
AfC
Sydney
|
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From: Alexey T. <a_t...@ma...> - 2009-12-21 20:33:59
|
Hello. As I understand, there is no way to get value for GtkTreeModel from Java. I have to set all values into TreeStore or ListStore before use it. Sometimes it rather expensive... But Gtk+ API allows implement custom TreeModel and write an arbitrary get_value function. So, it is possible to get value from Java class. Maybe this is useful feature? I think about interface, something like DataProvider or DataObtainer which can connect to TreeModel and provide values for it. |
|
From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-12-16 00:46:14
|
Hi, On behalf of all the contributors to the Java bindings for GTK and the GNOME Desktop, I'm pleased to announce another release of java-gnome! Release notes http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/NEWS.html#4.0.14 Tarball http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/java-gnome/4.0/java-gnome-4.0.14.tar.bz2 AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Consulting Engineer Operational Dynamics IT strategy, organizational architecture, systems review, and effective procedures for change management: enabling successful deployment of mission critical information technology in enterprises small and large. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ |
|
From: <and...@uk...> - 2009-12-14 15:18:24
|
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|
From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-12-08 22:53:09
|
On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 22:26 +0300, Alexey Titov wrote: > I have a table with many rows. How can I know which rows are currently > visible? Hm. Not sure. GTK seems to have a gtk_tree_view_get_visible_range(), http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkTreeView.html#gtk-tree-view-get-visible-range does that do what you want? If so, you might try writing a binding for it as TreeView's getVisibleRangeStart() and getVisibleRangeEnd(). > When scrolling occurs or table resizes new rows becomes > visible. If you want to pay attention to scrolling, you'd can hook up to the Adjustment.ValueChanged signal via TreeView's getVAdjustment(), http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/doc/api/org/gnome/gtk/TreeView.html#getVAdjustment() I've used that very successfully in other situations. And, of course, you can ask a Widget what Allocation it has been given, though that's not really what you're after. http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/doc/api/org/gnome/gtk/Widget.html#getAllocation() AfC Sydney |
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From: Alexey T. <a_t...@ma...> - 2009-12-08 19:27:19
|
I have a table with many rows. How can I know which rows are currently visible? When scrolling occurs or table resizes new rows becomes visible. Can I get a notification when visibility changes? |
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From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-12-05 05:20:01
|
On Sat, 2009-12-05 at 01:06 +0300, Emad Al-Bloushi wrote:
>
> 1 - Can I compile my java-gnome applications to native machine code
> via GCJ
Hard to say.
In the early days of java-gnome 4.0 we built a proper libgcj .so shared
library as well as our .jar file.
But that was fraught with nightmares.
At the time the GNU Classpath Project was making great strides, but GCJ
[for various historical reasons] does not use the latest Classpath glibj
release and instead forks a copy into the GCC tree from time to time. As
a result, your standard library as provided by libgcj [which is in turn
provided by your GCC] is always 1-3 years behind the latest Classpath
release. If you trip over any bugs, you're screwed.
Worse, if someone had GCJ installed on their system, it would tend to
conflict with a normal [at the time Sun, now Open] JDK if installed, and
there were *many* bugs & build failures for java-gnome as a result.
Needless to say I got tired of it all.
So somewhere around 4.0.6 we ripped the GCJ support out of java-gnome's
build process. Peace and tranquillity was the result.
GCJ is not dead, not by any means. It was a remarkable concept. But most
of the people who were working on it have gone elsewhere.
++
You are, of course, welcome to try and use GCJ [as gcj compiler &
linker, not as a javac lookalike] to (re)build java-gnome and then your
application. It might work for you.
{shrug}
I will note that in the 4.0.0 - 4.0.2 days, GCJ [as compiler and linker]
& GDB were very helpful, especially in figuring out what the signal
handling code was up to. But I haven't needed it in years.
And now that we can run `java` in GDB [2], I don't really expect to need
to go back to GCJ.
If you have a commercial requirement to use GCJ to build your programs,
feel free to contact me off list.
++
If you're having trouble figuring out how to make an app properly
installable and executable and packagable, then that's a different
question.
There are many approaches to that problem. None are ideal.
You might have a look at Slashtime [1]. It has a reasonably sane
approach to ./configure && make && make install. Not saying that it is
great, but it does ok for installing, translations, etc.
AfC
Sydney
[1] http://research.operationaldynamics.com/projects/slashtime/
[2] http://blogs.operationaldynamics.com/andrew/software/free-java/get-java-to-coredump.html
--
Andrew Frederick Cowie
Operational Dynamics is an operations and engineering consultancy
focusing on IT strategy, organizational architecture, systems
review, and effective procedures for change management: enabling
successful deployment of mission critical information technology in
enterprises, worldwide.
http://www.operationaldynamics.com/
Sydney New York Toronto London
|
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From: Emad Al-B. <al3...@li...> - 2009-12-04 22:06:30
|
Peace be upon you all , Thank you for your valuable effort , I have two questions I hope you help me with satisfied answers as mentioned below : 1 - Can I compile my Java-Gnome applications to native machine code via GCJ (if yes show me examples please)? 2 - Does Java-Gnome support all events in available GTK widgets ? OS : Ubuntu 9.10 GCJ version : 4.4.1 Java-Gnome : 4.0.13-3 Best regards , _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_3:092010 |
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From: Jacek F. <ja...@gm...> - 2009-11-18 23:56:05
|
I understand your point of view, but Maven and Ant (regardless of how you feel about them) are very typical setups for any regular Java developer...the type of folks we would like to see more exposed to Java-GNOME and interested in using it for developing apps. I think we should maybe differentiate though between development time usage (Maven in my case) and deployment on distros (native packaging system). It would be great to use Maven for developing JG apps (the whole setup makes it so easy)...actually getting them deployed is a different issue altogether and could alleviate a lot of your security concerns. I will continue this on the hackers list, as per your suggestion. Cheers, Jacek |
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From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-11-18 23:05:31
|
The Linux world is radically different that the others; if we want something installed on a system we build packages for it and depend on those. So personally, I have no use for Maven because it is out-of-band of the system management infrastructure. ++ Then there's a second issue, which is _executing_ Java programs, and Maven [nor Ivy, and don't even mention Ant] doesn't help with setting up the correct linking to run a Java program. This problem is much bigger than java-gnome; in fact, it's a horrid weakness in Java period. I've actually been giving talks about this at conferences for years; ie http://www.operationaldynamics.com/reference/talks/Equivalence/Equivalence_Presentation.html (no you don't have to read that) and why I started with Equivalence. The idea was sound, but admittedly [and I'm quite embarrassed about this] it never made it past the bloated prototype that presently lives in it's fifth project and sixth projects, java-gnome & slashtime. But frankly, the configure problem prefacing the build is not enough; its still no help running programs. Five years later I actually have some radically new ideas about this, largely to do with not using .jars any more at all and instead using the native linking infrastructure to handle transitive dependencies, but that's a still just a prototype too. ++ My principle and only concern for java-gnome is consistency of developer experience. I am *constantly* on the case of distros encouraging them to _not_ do something different that the others when it comes to packaging java-gnome. If they do, then someone trying to develop — let alone ship & package — their own work using java-gnome will be an inconsistent nightmare. Back to Maven, it is widely used in some places, making it [much to my chagrin] essentially a distro too. I'd be perfectly happy to ignore it. If people are going to insist on using it, though, then I'm certainly willing to listen to see what we can do to make sure that the experience if using Maven is comparable to depending on java-gnome properly from a distro package [or building it from source yourself, of course]. But not at the cost of corrupting the clean & integrated experience we presently have for java-gnome "when installed on system" and "when built in-place". I was discussing this with Kenneth Prugh a few days ago, and he recalled the trouble we went to [and why] to get the .so loading the way it is now (there's was a thread on java-gnome-hackers about this at the time). We put a lot of effort in to make that work well, and tested the hell out of it. So it's not something I'm interested in screwing with. ++ My aesthetic & technical sense is that burying the .so in the .jar is not the right answer, but if we're going to address this it's an engineering issue that we need to get right for all distros, not just Maven. ++ There is a third issue, Maven is a disaster for the security of the ecosystem. Distros build their own binaries for a reason. I am not a supporter of upstreams releasing binaries, and I am even less enthusiastic about the idea of people using some Maven repo with some copy of java-gnome in it which we have no idea what was done to it, have no idea who made it, and have no idea if anyone is actively maintained it. I for one flat out refuse to run any program that sources binaries from the anonymous public Maven repositories. I have no idea, none at all, what code is in those binaries. And neither does anyone else. It's a *huge* security threat. The fact that many people use them doesn't change a thing. ++ Finally, I would note that consistent experience is not just for people developing with the library; ensuring sane and consistent packaging is really important so that the maintainers of the library have a hope in hell of helping people who come to us with bugs. ++ > I am not too happy about having to patch the code to get this to work > and I have a gut feeling Andrew likes it even less...any alternate > suggestions would be therefore welcome. Engineering the library & packaging it for distros is something we need to co-ordinate as a community, so if you want to pursue this please start a thread on java-gnome-hackers and leave this list for discussing how best to use GTK to develop rich user interfaces for GNOME desktops. /me goes back to writing code. AfC Sydney |
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From: Jacek F. <ja...@gm...> - 2009-11-17 07:33:57
|
Yes, but that would create an artifact called org-gnome-libgtkjni-4.0.13.so, which would not load (since Plaform.loadNative() expects the standard naming format only). And it must be in the same folder as the jar, otherwise it wouldn't load either. Embedding the .so in the jar seemed the best idea (that's how SWT does it), but requires the unfortunate patch. I tried a lot of different Maven tricks, but the hardcoded requirement of a particular file name in a particular folder was always the deal breaker.... I am not too happy about having to patch the code to get this to work and I have a gut feeling Andrew likes it even less...any alternate suggestions would be therefore welcome. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Stefan Schweizer <ste...@gm... > wrote: > On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 12:37 -0500, Jacek Furmankiewicz wrote: > > I added the dependency on the utility mentioned in this entry and > > modified loadNativeCode() to attempt loading the .so directly from > > the jar's META-INF/lib (which is how I deploy it in the Maven repo). > > Have you tried declaring the libgtkjni.so as separate artifact with type > 'so'? I think something like this could work: > > <dependency> > <groupId>org.gnome</groupId> > <artifactId>libgtkjni</artifactId> > <version>4.0.13</version> > <type>so</type> > </dependency> > > > Stefan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus > on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > java-gnome-developer mailing list > jav...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/java-gnome-developer > |
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From: Stefan S. <ste...@gm...> - 2009-11-15 11:36:37
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On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 12:37 -0500, Jacek Furmankiewicz wrote: > I added the dependency on the utility mentioned in this entry and > modified loadNativeCode() to attempt loading the .so directly from > the jar's META-INF/lib (which is how I deploy it in the Maven repo). Have you tried declaring the libgtkjni.so as separate artifact with type 'so'? I think something like this could work: <dependency> <groupId>org.gnome</groupId> <artifactId>libgtkjni</artifactId> <version>4.0.13</version> <type>so</type> </dependency> Stefan |
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From: Jacek F. <ja...@gm...> - 2009-11-13 18:04:18
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I wanted to try to deploy Java-GNOME 4.0.13 in a Maven repo, so that it could be easily used in Maven-based projects. It turned out to be far more complicated than I thought, due to the native library issues. In particular, the way Plumbing.loadNativeCode() works on startup. It works well when Java-GNOME is installed a system lib, but not well when it's a Maven lib in a local Maven repository. I found this interesting blog entry on how to Mavenize JARs with embedded JNI libraries in them: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVENUSER/Projects+With+JNI I added the dependency on the utility mentioned in this entry and modified loadNativeCode() to attempt loading the .so directly from the jar's META-INF/lib (which is how I deploy it in the Maven repo). //attempt to load from JAR try { NativeLoader.loadLibrary("gtkjni-" + getVersion()); return; } catch (Throwable ex) { System.out.println("Failed to load from JAR: " + ex.getMessage()); //ignore } It works perfectly, but it is unfortunately a fork of the current logic. However, this makes it very easy to use in maven projects, just add this to your pom.xml: My Maven repo: <repositories> <repository> <id>javabuilders</id> <url>http://javabuilders.googlecode.com/svn/repo</url> </repository> </repositories> The Java-GNOME dependency: <dependencies> <dependency> <groupId>org.gnome</groupId> <artifactId>java-gnome-linux-x86</artifactId> <version>4.0.13</version> </dependency> </dependencies> That's all. Now you can just create Java-GNOME on Linux x86 apps and since the .so is embedded directly in the JAR itself it loads transparently. The Maven project I use to deploy it is in my github repo: http://github.com/jacek99/java-gnome-maven Obviously, this is an experiment, but it seems to work very well and makes it easy to create Java-GNOME apps by removing the complications related to the native shared library. Theoretically, we could even embed copies of it for all platforms (sort of a fat binary) and then intelligently load the one we need based on the current platform. I look forward to any feedback from the community: love it, hate it, etc. Cheers, Jacek |
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From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-11-13 01:54:27
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Have you ever written something where you put a footnote immediately after an exponent? I've got 6 × 10²⁴ in a document (note the use of U+2074 for the '⁴' character). Would you ever have a case where after the ⁴ there was a superscripted footnote, say 1 or † ? The question arises because, for exponents, one can use the unicode superscript numerals to good effect, whereas for the general superscripted footnote you can't get away with it (dagger being a good example why) and need to manually use a smaller font & set a rise, etc Doing this manually with java-gnome isn't a problem; when drawing with Pango you use a SizeAttribute and a RiseAttribute and you're on your way. http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/doc/api/org/gnome/pango/SizeAttribute.html http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/doc/api/org/gnome/pango/RiseAttribute.html (the caveats of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscript_and_superscript notwithstanding; I don't know of any libre fonts that have proper typographic support for all upper and lower case latin characters (let alone any other language, so you're stuck with doing it yourself if you want other than 1-9 super or sub) As far as I can tell, footnotes and exponents are the only time one actually _uses_ superscript. And I've never seen a footnote beside an exponent in anything I've ever done. A screenshot with a whack of artificial footnotes & citations is at http://research.operationaldynamics.com/files/andrew/FootnotesAndExponents.png as you can see the only weird one is the footnote after the 10^24 exponent. But other than that it all seems really sane (especially footnote #42, which was the original one when I was laying out the typography). The point is kinda to de-emphasize the notes markers, frankly, and that seems to be successful. The exponents, on the other hand, really does look good with the Unicode superscript characters. Anyway I thought I'd see if anyone cared to offer views on the topic. Cheers :) AfC Sydney |
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From: Henri W. <hwi...@gm...> - 2009-11-11 13:24:13
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Andrew Cowie <andrew@...> writes: > > On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 16:36 +1100, Andrew Cowie wrote: > > > Branch at > > (and I just looked and realized I have a large-ish patch sitting > uncommitted in a Working Tree from that Branch here. Clearly I wasn't > happy about the way things were working out, but that was a long time > ago. If someone really does want to work on this, I'll throw it into a > bundle and we can talk about it on the java-gnome-hackers mailing list) > > AfC > Cape Byron > I'm going to wait for GSettings stuff to land. I can live without those bindings at the moment. Thanks, Henri |
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From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-11-11 04:19:12
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On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 16:36 +1100, Andrew Cowie wrote: > Branch at (and I just looked and realized I have a large-ish patch sitting uncommitted in a Working Tree from that Branch here. Clearly I wasn't happy about the way things were working out, but that was a long time ago. If someone really does want to work on this, I'll throw it into a bundle and we can talk about it on the java-gnome-hackers mailing list) AfC Cape Byron |
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From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-11-09 05:36:18
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On Sun, 2009-11-08 at 06:44 +0000, Henri Wiechers wrote: > Hi, > > What the status of the GConf bindings? Is it in java-gnome 4.0? Very quickly [because I have 3.5 minutes of time left in the internet cafe I'm in :)] I started trying to get a GConf binding together oh, about a year ago. It wasn't as easy as I would have liked; type safety was elusive. Branch at http://research.operationaldynamics.com/bzr/java-gnome/hackers/andrew/gconf/ *BUT* The GNOME community is on the cusp of replacing GConf with dconf + GSettings [see desktop-devel-list] so maybe we should just wait-out on this. Hard to say. AfC Cape Byron -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Operational Dynamics is an operations and engineering consultancy focusing on IT strategy, organizational architecture, systems review, and effective procedures for change management: enabling successful deployment of mission critical information technology in enterprises, worldwide. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London |
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From: Henri W. <hwi...@gm...> - 2009-11-08 06:50:21
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Hi, What the status of the GConf bindings? Is it in java-gnome 4.0? Thanks, Henri Wiechers |
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From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-11-01 05:02:22
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On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 14:03 -0500, Thura wrote: > I am writing a dialog, in which the "close" button is aligned to the > left, like other gtk+ applications. It's a HIG requirement. More accurately, dialogs in GNOME user interfaces all have their common case, go forward action being the right-most, while which button is set as default (ie, what happens if you press Enter) depends on the severity. Anyway, > But I haven't found a way how to do it. Sounds like you want MessageDialog. It's easy enough to drive, but we have some useful subclasses which make it even easier to Do The Right Thing. Have a look at QuestionMessageDialog: http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/doc/api/org/gnome/gtk/QuestionMessageDialog.html or more likely WarningMessageDialog: http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/doc/api/org/gnome/gtk/WarningMessageDialog.html [hm, that needs a screenshot. Anyone want to contribute?] should do the trick for you. Good luck! AfC Sydney |
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From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-11-01 04:54:36
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On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 15:19 +0100, Patrick von Reth wrote: > I know mixing swing&awt with java-gnome is supported That's right. You can't have two different toolkits both trying to drive GTK. If you use java-gnome to write your UI in GTK, then you won't have any problems. Then you can use our libnotify package. AfC Sydney |
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From: Thura <thu...@gm...> - 2009-10-31 19:03:54
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I am writing a dialog, in which the "close" button is aligned to the left, like other gtk+ applications. But I haven't found a way how to do it. Any clues? Thura |
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From: Patrick v. R. <pa...@vo...> - 2009-10-31 14:54:10
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I just runned my application on my laptop and everything worked fine. The laptop is running with Kubuntu karmic x86 my desktop pc is running Kubuntu karmic x64 the installed java-gnome package is the one from the repository. So maybe its a bug in the x64 build of java-gnome? Greetings Patrick von Reth 2009/10/31 Patrick von Reth <pa...@vo...> > Hi, > I'm developing the jWeatherWatch <http://code.google.com/p/jweatherwatch/> watch > in my free time and a view weeks ago I discovered java-gnome which supports > an easy way to use libnotify. > I know mixing swing&awt with java-gnome is not official supported but it > works almost great. > After I solved a Gthread error when I initialized java-gnome after a > TrayIcon notification the only unsolved issue is > > *"The program 'jWeatherWatch' received an X Window System error.* > *This probably reflects a bug in the program.* > *The error was 'BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)'.* > * (Details: serial 2493 error_code 8 request_code 146 minor_code 4)* > * (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously;* > * that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it.* > * To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line* > * option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful* > * backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() > function.)".* > * > * > It always appears in the settings dialog, clicking on "OK", "Apply", or > switching to the "MinimalView" tab. Is this a bug or just a incompatibility > of java-gnome and swing/awt? > > Src of SettingsDialog<http://code.google.com/p/jweatherwatch/source/browse/trunk/src/gui/settings/SettingsDialog.java> > > > > Greetings > > Patrick von Reth > > > |
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From: Patrick v. R. <pa...@vo...> - 2009-10-31 14:19:37
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Hi, I'm developing the jWeatherWatch <http://code.google.com/p/jweatherwatch/> watch in my free time and a view weeks ago I discovered java-gnome which supports an easy way to use libnotify. I know mixing swing&awt with java-gnome is not official supported but it works almost great. After I solved a Gthread error when I initialized java-gnome after a TrayIcon notification the only unsolved issue is *"The program 'jWeatherWatch' received an X Window System error.* *This probably reflects a bug in the program.* *The error was 'BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)'.* * (Details: serial 2493 error_code 8 request_code 146 minor_code 4)* * (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously;* * that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it.* * To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line* * option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful* * backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.)".* * * It always appears in the settings dialog, clicking on "OK", "Apply", or switching to the "MinimalView" tab. Is this a bug or just a incompatibility of java-gnome and swing/awt? Src of SettingsDialog<http://code.google.com/p/jweatherwatch/source/browse/trunk/src/gui/settings/SettingsDialog.java> Greetings Patrick von Reth |
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From: Andrew C. <an...@op...> - 2009-10-08 02:58:15
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On Wed, 2009-10-07 at 22:52 -0300, Leonardo wrote: > not a wish, just a reality: Great job! [and I'm thrilled to see you called it java-gnome. This "libjava-gnome-java" that the Debian packagers have used looks quite ridiculous] AfC Sydney |
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From: Leonardo <som...@gm...> - 2009-10-08 01:52:49
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not a wish, just a reality: http://www.slacky.eu/aadm/pkgs/index.php?ver=13&pkgname=java-gnome&pkgver=4.0.12 note that i'll be testing and updating the original scripts so gohanz will be able to update it to mainstream. see, soon slacky.eu will release the new gnome for slackware, and since Slackware lacks an official GNOME build, GSlacky is ou best replacement for that. i'll try to keep it updated (it's already outdated, but i guess that's ok for the first release) and guys in need to run/develop java-gnome based apps will simply use gslapt/slapt-get (the oficial slackpkg does not use more than one mirror) to grab on working copy. thanks all java-gnome developers, i really want to see it inside every possible gnome. keep the good work, :) |