ipodlinux-devel

[Ipodlinux-devel] Internationalisation proposal of podzilla

[Pander <pa...@us...>]

Hi all,

I would like to propose the following internationalisation (i18n) of 
podzilla. Here are following proposals, please shoot at them ;)

1) The integer value of variable lang should be stored in 
/etc/podzilla.conf. in ipod.h is already:
	#define LANGUAGE 30
It can be used with:
	ipod_get_setting(LANGUAGE)]

2) Language codes will have to be defined in ipod.h:
	static int ENGLISH = 0;
	static int FRENCH  = 1;
	static int GERMAN  = 2;
	static int DUTCH   = 3;
This might nog be needed but a clear order should be defined and 
extended as more languages get added.

3) In .h or better in the .c files the translation should be defined. 
Here are three simple examples:

static char *lang_language[] = { "English", "Français", "Deutsch", 
"Nederlands" };

static char *lang_play[] = { "Play", "Jouez", "Abspielen", "Afspelen" }'

static char *lang_month[][] = {
	{ "Jan", "Feb", ..., "Dec" },
	{ "jan", "fev", ..., "dec" },
	{ "Jan", "Feb", ..., "Dec" },
	{ "jan", "feb", ..., "dec" },
}

4) Example usage would be like this

	printf(lang_play[ipod_get_setting(LANGUAGE)]);

5) System output as errors and warning should not be translated since 
that makes it easier to refer on the internet to certain issues.

Greetz,

Pander

Re: [Ipodlinux-devel] Internationalisation proposal of podzilla

[<ca...@pe...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Pander wrote:

| Hi all,
|

Hi

| I would like to propose the following internationalisation (i18n) of
| podzilla. Here are following proposals, please shoot at them ;)
|

isn't it a lot simpler and better to just use Gettext like all other
Linux applications?

Same translation format for the translator and without the need to
invent a new way to do it in our own way...

Cheers.


| 1) The integer value of variable lang should be stored in
| /etc/podzilla.conf. in ipod.h is already:
|     #define LANGUAGE 30
| It can be used with:
|     ipod_get_setting(LANGUAGE)]
|
| 2) Language codes will have to be defined in ipod.h:
|     static int ENGLISH =3D 0;
|     static int FRENCH  =3D 1;
|     static int GERMAN  =3D 2;
|     static int DUTCH   =3D 3;
| This might nog be needed but a clear order should be defined and
| extended as more languages get added.
|
| 3) In .h or better in the .c files the translation should be
| defined. Here are three simple examples:
|
| static char *lang_language[] =3D { "English", "Fran=E7ais", "Deutsch",
| "Nederlands" };
|
| static char *lang_play[] =3D { "Play", "Jouez", "Abspielen",
| "Afspelen" }'
|
| static char *lang_month[][] =3D {
|     { "Jan", "Feb", ..., "Dec" },
|     { "jan", "fev", ..., "dec" },
|     { "Jan", "Feb", ..., "Dec" },
|     { "jan", "feb", ..., "dec" },
| }
|
| 4) Example usage would be like this
|
|     printf(lang_play[ipod_get_setting(LANGUAGE)]);
|
| 5) System output as errors and warning should not be translated
| since that makes it easier to refer on the internet to certain issues.
|
| Greetz,
|
| Pander
|
|
| -------------------------------------------------------
| SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
| Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real
| users.
| Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
| http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D6595&alloc_id=3D14396&op=3Dclick
| _______________________________________________
| iPodlinux-devel mailing list
| iPo...@li...
| https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ipodlinux-devel


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCE7ZGEuPMamD5V9cRAgjhAJ9pJK8N5pSE4o9nl6BeLpUwB2+n+ACgg9pJ
FLGqa0E3a1P1R4mTAoPkeYk=3D
=3DbhyY
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [Ipodlinux-devel] Internationalisation proposal of podzilla

[Pander <pa...@us...>]

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:08:22 +0200, Carlos Perell=F3 Mar=EDn wrote
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>=20
> Pander wrote:
>=20
> | Hi all,
> |
>=20
> Hi
>=20
> | I would like to propose the following internationalisation (i18n)
>  of | podzilla. Here are following proposals, please shoot at them ;)
>  |
>=20
> isn't it a lot simpler and better to just use Gettext like all other
> Linux applications?

Have a look at
http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_mono/gettext.html I think=
 that
gettext is too heavy for podzilla. It will need more memory and more CPU
cycles for each lookup. Also since podzilla applications will not have th=
at
extensive translation needs.

I'm pretty new to the world of podzilla but performance wise I think we s=
hould
be very careful on where to spend CPU cycles on. Anywasy, that is also pa=
rt of
the fun I think :)

> Same translation format for the translator and without the need to
> invent a new way to do it in our own way...

Other disadvantage of gettext for podzilla is that you will have to gener=
ate
files with translations. Anyways, advandtage of the proposal below is tha=
t it
is very fast and it can also be replaced with a different translation tec=
hique
at a later stage in an automated way. The proposal is a consequent way of
doing translations so it is an improvement anyway to the current situatio=
n.

Perhaps there are mote suggestions? Than we can make an analysis of the p=
ro's
and con's of all and then go fit.

Regards,

Pander

>=20
> Cheers.
>=20
> | 1) The integer value of variable lang should be stored in
> | /etc/podzilla.conf. in ipod.h is already:
> |     #define LANGUAGE 30
> | It can be used with:
> |     ipod_get_setting(LANGUAGE)]
> |
> | 2) Language codes will have to be defined in ipod.h:
> |     static int ENGLISH =3D 0;
> |     static int FRENCH  =3D 1;
> |     static int GERMAN  =3D 2;
> |     static int DUTCH   =3D 3;
> | This might nog be needed but a clear order should be defined and
> | extended as more languages get added.
> |
> | 3) In .h or better in the .c files the translation should be
> | defined. Here are three simple examples:
> |
> | static char *lang_language[] =3D { "English", "Fran=E7ais", "Deutsch"=
,
> | "Nederlands" };
> |
> | static char *lang_play[] =3D { "Play", "Jouez", "Abspielen",
> | "Afspelen" }'
> |
> | static char *lang_month[][] =3D {
> |     { "Jan", "Feb", ..., "Dec" },
> |     { "jan", "fev", ..., "dec" },
> |     { "Jan", "Feb", ..., "Dec" },
> |     { "jan", "feb", ..., "dec" },
> | }
> |
> | 4) Example usage would be like this
> |
> |     printf(lang_play[ipod_get_setting(LANGUAGE)]);
> |
> | 5) System output as errors and warning should not be translated
> | since that makes it easier to refer on the internet to certain issues.
> |
> | Greetz,
> |
> | Pander
> |
> |
> | -------------------------------------------------------
> | SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> | Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real
> | users.
> | Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> | http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D6595&alloc_id=3D14396&op=3Dclick
> | _______________________________________________
> | iPodlinux-devel mailing list
> | iPo...@li...
> | https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ipodlinux-devel
>=20
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>=20
> iD8DBQFCE7ZGEuPMamD5V9cRAgjhAJ9pJK8N5pSE4o9nl6BeLpUwB2+n+ACgg9pJ
> FLGqa0E3a1P1R4mTAoPkeYk=3D
> =3DbhyY
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id=14396&op=3Dclick
> _______________________________________________
> iPodlinux-devel mailing list
> iPo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ipodlinux-devel

Re: [Ipodlinux-devel] Internationalisation proposal of podzilla

[<ca...@pe...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Pander wrote:
| On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:08:22 +0200, Carlos Perell=F3 Mar=EDn wrote
|
| Pander wrote:
|
| | Hi all,
| |
|
| Hi
|
| | I would like to propose the following internationalisation (i18n)
|  of | podzilla. Here are following proposals, please shoot at them ;)
|  |
|
| isn't it a lot simpler and better to just use Gettext like all other
| Linux applications?
|
|
|> Have a look at
|> http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_mono/gettext.html I
think that
|> gettext is too heavy for podzilla. It will need more memory and more C=
PU
|> cycles for each lookup. Also since podzilla applications will not
have that
|> extensive translation needs.

Dude, the iPod is not as slow as to think that gettext is eating too
much cycles...

The memory increase is there, yes, any extra library needs some extra
memory, but your model needs that _all_ translations are loaded into
memory all the time. Gettext only loads into memory the translations for
the languages been used and I think it's possible to use mmap to reduce
that memory usage, so what's the point behind thinking gettext is too
memory waste?

|
|> I'm pretty new to the world of podzilla but performance wise I think
we should
|> be very careful on where to spend CPU cycles on. Anywasy, that is
also part of
|> the fun I think :)
|

You are right, but as I said, the iPod is not so slow hardware to think
that gettext is going to overload the CPU, dude, the iPod decodes MP3/AAC=
!!!


|
| Same translation format for the translator and without the need to
| invent a new way to do it in our own way...
|
|
|> Other disadvantage of gettext for podzilla is that you will have to
generate
|> files with translations. Anyways, advandtage of the proposal below is
that it
|> is very fast and it can also be replaced with a different translation
techique
|> at a later stage in an automated way. The proposal is a consequent way=
 of
|> doing translations so it is an improvement anyway to the current
situation.

So you are assuming that translators will be happy doing their
translations directly inside the podzilla source code and that they are
going to understand how it works so they don't break that file, and when
a new string appears is going to be easy for them to find it, translate
and commit the new file... I'm a developer and my work is 100% related
to translators and I could say you that if you pretend that podzilla is
being used by many people that model is not going to work. Perhaps
gettext is not the best solution but you should think on a system that
is easy for the translators to work with.

Also, it's not too hard to implement the translations handling with
gettext, test and benchmark it and see if it works before assuming too
much overload...

|
|> Perhaps there are mote suggestions? Than we can make an analysis of
the pro's
|> and con's of all and then go fit.
|

Dude, as you said this is about resources wasting, the best way to test
this is doing a real test :-)

Cheers.

|> Regards,
|
|> Pander
|
|
| Cheers.
|
| | 1) The integer value of variable lang should be stored in
| | /etc/podzilla.conf. in ipod.h is already:
| |     #define LANGUAGE 30
| | It can be used with:
| |     ipod_get_setting(LANGUAGE)]
| |
| | 2) Language codes will have to be defined in ipod.h:
| |     static int ENGLISH =3D 0;
| |     static int FRENCH  =3D 1;
| |     static int GERMAN  =3D 2;
| |     static int DUTCH   =3D 3;
| | This might nog be needed but a clear order should be defined and
| | extended as more languages get added.
| |
| | 3) In .h or better in the .c files the translation should be
| | defined. Here are three simple examples:
| |
| | static char *lang_language[] =3D { "English", "Fran=E7ais", "Deutsch"=
,
| | "Nederlands" };
| |
| | static char *lang_play[] =3D { "Play", "Jouez", "Abspielen",
| | "Afspelen" }'
| |
| | static char *lang_month[][] =3D {
| |     { "Jan", "Feb", ..., "Dec" },
| |     { "jan", "fev", ..., "dec" },
| |     { "Jan", "Feb", ..., "Dec" },
| |     { "jan", "feb", ..., "dec" },
| | }
| |
| | 4) Example usage would be like this
| |
| |     printf(lang_play[ipod_get_setting(LANGUAGE)]);
| |
| | 5) System output as errors and warning should not be translated
| | since that makes it easier to refer on the internet to certain issues=
.
| |
| | Greetz,
| |
| | Pander
| |
| |
| | -------------------------------------------------------
| | SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
| | Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real
| | users.
| | Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
| | http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D6595&alloc_id=3D14396&op=3Dclick
| | _______________________________________________
| | iPodlinux-devel mailing list
| | iPo...@li...
| | https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ipodlinux-devel
|

- -------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id=14396&op=3Dclick
_______________________________________________
iPodlinux-devel mailing list
iPo...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ipodlinux-devel



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCFIsOEuPMamD5V9cRAlGbAJ0cfqhhaDYZAfqqDFt0G78kY1KgagCfXdO5
sWdnFhckSRLnroBkhN1wX2Y=3D
=3Dr0Jx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [Ipodlinux-devel] Internationalisation proposal of podzilla

[Pander <pa...@us...>]

Carlos Perelló Marín wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1

...

> Also, it's not too hard to implement the translations handling with
> gettext, test and benchmark it and see if it works before assuming too
> much overload...
> 
> |
> |> Perhaps there are mote suggestions? Than we can make an analysis of
> the pro's
> |> and con's of all and then go fit.
> |
> 
> Dude, as you said this is about resources wasting, the best way to test
> this is doing a real test :-)
> 
> Cheers.

Good idea, we can give it a try. What do you suggest to get started? 
Incorporate gettext in ipodlinux and update the sources of one of the 
small applications to test it. We can take the rest of this discussion 
off line of this maillinglist.

Regards,

Pander

Re: [Ipodlinux-devel] Internationalisation proposal of podzilla

[Philipp <phi...@gm...>]

I don't know anything about programming (just a happy lurcher here I am... =
:)=20
but I am native german speaking and thought maybe I could help. So if you=20
have a world list you would like to have translated (Sorry for my bad=20
English), fell free to contact me!
With greetings, Philip

On Friday 18 February 2005 09:56, Pander wrote:
> Carlos Perell=F3 Mar=EDn wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
>
> ...
>
> > Also, it's not too hard to implement the translations handling with
> > gettext, test and benchmark it and see if it works before assuming too
> > much overload...
> >
> > |> Perhaps there are mote suggestions? Than we can make an analysis of
> >
> > the pro's
> >
> > |> and con's of all and then go fit.
> >
> > Dude, as you said this is about resources wasting, the best way to test
> > this is doing a real test :-)
> >
> > Cheers.
>
> Good idea, we can give it a try. What do you suggest to get started?
> Incorporate gettext in ipodlinux and update the sources of one of the
> small applications to test it. We can take the rest of this discussion
> off line of this maillinglist.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pander
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D6595&alloc_id=3D14396&op=3Dclick
> _______________________________________________
> iPodlinux-devel mailing list
> iPo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ipodlinux-devel

Re: [Ipodlinux-devel] Internationalisation proposal of podzilla

[<ca...@pe...>]

Pander wrote:
> Carlos Perell=F3 Mar=EDn wrote:
>=20
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>=20
>=20
> ...
>=20
>> Also, it's not too hard to implement the translations handling with
>> gettext, test and benchmark it and see if it works before assuming too
>> much overload...
>>
>> |
>> |> Perhaps there are mote suggestions? Than we can make an analysis of
>> the pro's
>> |> and con's of all and then go fit.
>> |
>>
>> Dude, as you said this is about resources wasting, the best way to tes=
t
>> this is doing a real test :-)
>>
>> Cheers.
>=20
>=20
> Good idea, we can give it a try. What do you suggest to get started?=20
> Incorporate gettext in ipodlinux and update the sources of one of the=20
> small applications to test it. We can take the rest of this discussion=20
> off line of this maillinglist.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Atm I'm really busy and I doubt I'm going to do anything about it, but
ping me back in a bout 15 days and we could try it.

If anyone else wants to do it *now*, I could help.

Cheers.

>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Pander