> Is it me, or is the mail-archive not showing all mails in a timely
I have not yet seen the post by Jasper to which you referred so maybe
the mail is slow.
I think I am slowly coming to see what you mean. Just another couple
of questions about F1 transformations to clarify things for myself.
> The tiles behave like objects, so you can transform them with the F1
> tool, and you can snap them to other guides.
Does this mean that the guides for the base tile are visible at all times
(in order to be selectable)? I was assuming that the guides for the base tile
would only be visible in Tile Edit mode since they are not rendered in the final
image – that is why I was concerned with overloading the interaction in Tile
Can you select the guides and modify them independent of the group of
objects to which they are associated? That is, can the base tile guides
and the “Original“ object (using the terminology of the current Clone menu) be
selected and modified independently? For example, can I change the size of
the Original object after I have associated it with a base tile without
affecting the base tile?
Or, alternatively, do you need to select the Original object first
and this will cause the tile guides to be displayed with their own
transformation handles (i.e. there will be two sets of transform handles visible
– one for the Original object and one for the base tile). If you are
thinking of this kind of interaction, then there may be some confusion as to
which “object” the keyboard accelerators are sent.
>> Even worse, take a p2 tiling and put a 180-degree rotation
>> center on its "translational" edges (I'm referring to the diagram
>> by veronika(?)), what you end up with is another p2 tiling with
>> different base tile...
I think what Jasper is referring to is the fact if you only show a minimum
set of operations to create a tile group, this is not a unique
representation. As a result, changing some guide behaviour will not
necessarily change the wallpaper group. Below is an image to illustrate
his point. It would appear that changing the vertical edges of the base
tile from translations to rotations has created a new kind of wallpaper group –
the result on the Original object is definitely different when applied.
However, closer inspection reveals that we can choose a different base tile and
the resulting wallpaper group is still p2 – that is, the wallpaper group has not
changed but the base tile has.
The point of showing how the tile will be applied to an object is still
relevant. Even though it is not a unique representation, as long as it is
a valid representation, the information required by the designer is
The idea about changing the behaviour of the base tile by modifying the
behaviour of the different edges or corners, however, is a bit tricky.
Only some modifications will result in new or even valid wallpaper
tilings. The allowed changes would need to be constrained to only valid
ones. Perhaps multiple representations of the same wallpaper group could
be allowed – this would need to be reflected in the behaviour of the code when
applying the base tile since as shown in the image above, the different
representations do not yield exactly the same result.