From: A. F. S. <afs...@ya...> - 2002-08-16 07:25:32
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Are there any ilisp .rpm files around for downloading? If not, it seems like a reasonable way for ilisp to reach a greater potential user base. I'm not attempting to suggest to you how to run your project. But linux distributions that use .rpm files are the biggest distributions out there. I struggled for three weeks to jump through all the hoops to make CMUCL work, and it still wasn't working. It took me 5 minutes to install once I downloaded the rpm files and everything works great. Mandrake and Red Hat Linux have messed up their file locations so much that about the only way anyone who is not an expert can get anything installed is to use these rpms. I wish Mandrake and Red Hat didn't intentionally make things so difficult, but that's the way they have done things, and I'm stuck with it for a while longer. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com |
From: <rpg...@si...> - 2002-08-16 19:10:20
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A. F. Smith writes: > Are there any ilisp .rpm files around for downloading? > > If not, it seems like a reasonable way for ilisp to > reach a greater potential user base. > I believe ilisp is included in the XEMACS rpms that you can get from Mandrake. At any rate, rpmifying is unnecessary for Xemacs, since Xemacs has its own package manager for emacs-lisp packages. If you're maintaining an xemacs install, you should use that package manager (in the Options menu), instead of rpms (which are updated far less frequently). If you're not using xemacs (here comes the flamebait), you should! R |
From: A. F. S. <afs...@ya...> - 2002-08-16 20:07:14
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There's only one problem with your suggestion. I don't know how to use xemacs yet. Like I said in my very first post, I am trying to get xemacs and cmucl set up so I can use them to learn common lisp and xemacs. Also, it should be clear by my lengths that I have gone through that ilisp is not included in the mandrake rpms. I really do not understand the resistance to having ilisp rpms available for download. They are by far the easiest way to get ilisp installed into Mandrake and Red Hat systems. Why make people jusmp through unnecessary hoops when from this obvious example it's apparent that a good deal of the hoop-jumping ends with ilisp uninstalled on the target system and much time for both the person trying to set-up their system and the person who is trying to help them wasted. I've now been trying to get CMUCL environment working with an editor for more than a month. Three weeks of hoop jumping with all the various combinations of CMUCL compiler files ended with a 5 minute .rpm installation. Trying to get ilisp working has now stretched out more than a week with an answer no closer. This is not an efficient use of time. Creating the rpms would take one of you very little time, and would take me a couple of minutes to get installed. Instead, I'm still sitting here with no way to use xemacs and CMUCL together. --- rpg...@si... wrote: > > A. F. Smith writes: > > Are there any ilisp .rpm files around for > downloading? > > > > If not, it seems like a reasonable way for ilisp > to > > reach a greater potential user base. > > > > I believe ilisp is included in the XEMACS rpms that > you can get from > Mandrake. At any rate, rpmifying is unnecessary for > Xemacs, since > Xemacs has its own package manager for emacs-lisp > packages. If you're > maintaining an xemacs install, you should use that > package manager (in > the Options menu), instead of rpms (which are > updated far less > frequently). > > If you're not using xemacs (here comes the > flamebait), you should! > > R > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com |
From: <rpg...@si...> - 2002-08-16 20:19:55
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I don't think you've followed my comments. I don't know which system you are using (Mandrake? Red Hat?), but they're pretty similar, so I'll assume that my Mandrake experience will carry over: #1: Mandrake (and Red Hat, the last time I checked) do NOT install Xemacs by default. If you ask for emacs you get FSF emacs, which is not the same and which does not, I believe, have a package manager. Anyway, if you want FSF emacs instructions, someone else will have to step in. If you want XEMACS you should: 1. remove vanilla emacs. There may be some other way to do this, but I haven't found it. The problem is that there's some shared stuff between FSF and Xemacs, and the RPM packagers factored it out, and if you want to install them both, you need to install them both from the get-go. 2. Install the xemacs, xemacs-devel, xemacs-extras and xemacs-info rpms. 3. You will now have ilisp. So your complaint is not well-founded --- ilisp IS available in rpm form. 4. Fire up xemacs as root. Change the following customization parameter efs-ftp-program-args to ("-i" "-n" "-g" "-v" "-u") You must do this because the default EFS FTP configuration is not compatible with the package management. #2 If you feel the need, update the ilisp packages AS ROOT. Go to the Options menu "Manage Packages" submenu, choose an update source, then try to list and install. I'm afraid I don't have the foggiest idea how to do the equivalent with FSF emacs. But RPMS or not is a red herring. That's not the issue. A. F. Smith writes: > > There's only one problem with your suggestion. I don't > know how to use xemacs yet. Like I said in my very > first post, I am trying to get xemacs and cmucl set up > so I can use them to learn common lisp and xemacs. > Also, it should be clear by my lengths that I have > gone through that ilisp is not included in the > mandrake rpms. I really do not understand the > resistance to having ilisp rpms available for > download. They are by far the easiest way to get ilisp > installed into Mandrake and Red Hat systems. Why make > people jusmp through unnecessary hoops when from this > obvious example it's apparent that a good deal of the > hoop-jumping ends with ilisp uninstalled on the target > system and much time for both the person trying to > set-up their system and the person who is trying to > help them wasted. > > I've now been trying to get CMUCL environment working > with an editor for more than a month. Three weeks of > hoop jumping with all the various combinations of > CMUCL compiler files ended with a 5 minute .rpm > installation. Trying to get ilisp working has now > stretched out more than a week with an answer no > closer. This is not an efficient use of time. Creating > the rpms would take one of you very little time, and > would take me a couple of minutes to get installed. > Instead, I'm still sitting here with no way to use > xemacs and CMUCL together. > > > > --- rpg...@si... wrote: > > > > A. F. Smith writes: > > > Are there any ilisp .rpm files around for > > downloading? > > > > > > If not, it seems like a reasonable way for ilisp > > to > > > reach a greater potential user base. > > > > > > > I believe ilisp is included in the XEMACS rpms that > > you can get from > > Mandrake. At any rate, rpmifying is unnecessary for > > Xemacs, since > > Xemacs has its own package manager for emacs-lisp > > packages. If you're > > maintaining an xemacs install, you should use that > > package manager (in > > the Options menu), instead of rpms (which are > > updated far less > > frequently). > > > > If you're not using xemacs (here comes the > > flamebait), you should! > > > > R > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com |
From: <rpg...@si...> - 2002-08-17 02:06:46
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A. F. Smith writes: > Since I wouldn't know the difference between the ilisp > files that I was advised by Will Deakin and possible > ilisp files already locate somewhere in the system, I > went ahead and re-formatted the hard drive and > completely re-installed Mandrake 8.2, this time > insuring that no emacs files were installed. When I > finished the process, the ilisp files were there. I > then started xemacs, hit m-x, load-library, and was > greeted with the same message one of the same messages > I was greeted with last night... Eek. Wow. That was a little overkill. Another time, you can try the following: 1. get the ilisp source files from sourceforge (ask if you need more instructions); 2. put them in some sub-directory in your homedir 3. add this sub-directory to your load path. E.g.: (add-to-list 'load-path "/home/smith/ilisp") That will shadow the built in ones, and give you the ones from sourceforge instead. > > "Symbol's starting value as a variable is void: > ild-abort-string" > > So now what? Do the following before loading the library: 1. M-x set-variable <ret> debug-on-error <ret> t 2. Do as before 3. If you get a crash, you should see a new window with a backtrace in it. Cut the backtrace out into an email message and send it to ilisp-help. With that information we might be able to do better. Hope that helps, R P.S. I'm late in coming to this discussion, so if you've done that already, I don't know it. |
From: <rpg...@si...> - 2002-08-17 18:45:51
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I don't really have time to dig into this right now, but here's a suggestion that MIGHT work: This might be a problem with the deflocal macro in ild.el Whether macros work properly depends on their compilation environment. So.... one thing that MIGHT work would be to move the ild.elc compiled file out of the way (try renaming it to ild.elc.orig) and then try loading ilisp again. It will load (eval) the source file then, and the results might be different. If the file was compiled in a bad environment (e.g., thinking deflocal was a function, instead of macroexpanding it properly), then this MIGHT make the problem go away. If this works, we'd be a lot closer to a solution. Best, Robert |
From: <rpg...@si...> - 2002-08-17 21:47:19
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A. F. Smith writes: > I did as directed with the ild file. Added .orig > suffux, then started up xemacs. Did m-x ->load-library > ->ilisp > > ilisp loaded. Did m-x ->cmulisp -> cmulisp loaded. > He's the cut/paste from it... > > Starting lisp ... > CMU Common Lisp 18d, running on localhost.localdomain > Send questions to cmu...@co.... and bug reports > to cmu...@co.... > Loaded subsystems: > Python 1.0, target Intel x86 > CLOS based on PCL version: September 16 92 PCL > (f) > * > * ;;; Loading > /usr/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ilisp/cl-ilisp.lisp > ILISP: File is not compiled, use M-x > ilisp-compile-inits > ---------------------- > > Does this mean cmucl is good to go? Is that message > about ILISP critical or it just an inconvenience? > > Adam The message about the files not being compiled is NOT critical. It's just an inconvenience. If you want to make it work, restart your emacs running as root, and do the M-x ilisp-compile-inits per their instructions. You are good to go however, even if you don't. [This warning, by the way, is about uncompiled COMMON LISP files that are used on the CL side of the ilisp interface, not about uncompiled EMACS lisp files.] One thing that might help track down the problem would be for you to fire up ilisp as before. Then, after loading ilisp, do M-x byte-compile-file and when prompted for file, byte compile the ild.el file (into ild.elc). Then quit emacs, start up again, and M-x load-library ilisp Let us know whether ilisp crashes again. If it DOESN'T then whatever makefile originally built your ild.el must be buggy and not get the dependencies right. If it DOES crash again as before, then there's something wrong with the deflocal macro would be my guess. Anyway, if it does crash again, just remove ild.elc, and keep running without it. You should be fine. cheers, R |
From: <rpg...@si...> - 2002-08-18 15:27:14
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A. F. Smith writes: > ilisp-compile-inits worked just fine. > > I tried to byte-compile-file ild.el. > > FAILED > > came back with a bunch of... > "third arg to defvar ild-{*}-string is not a > string:nil" > responses with the wild card being a bunch of > different string names. > I was looking at the definition of deflocal: (defmacro deflocal (variable default &optional documentation) "Define an ilisp local variable." (` (progn (lisp-deflocal '(, variable)) (defvar (, variable) (, default) (, documentation))))) I was wondering if revising this to something like (defmacro deflocal (variable default &optional documentation) "Define an ilisp local variable." (let ((documentation (cond ((stringp documentation) documentation) ;; on at least some xemacsen passing nil ;; as the documentation to defvar seems bad ((null documentation) "") (t (error "Should pass nil or a string as documentation argument."))))) (` (progn (lisp-deflocal '(, variable)) (defvar (, variable) (, default) (, documentation)))))) might fix the problem.... R |
From: Paolo A. <am...@mc...> - 2002-08-17 17:10:46
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On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:07:04 -0700 (PDT), A. F. Smith wrote: > mandrake rpms. I really do not understand the > resistance to having ilisp rpms available for > download. They are by far the easiest way to get ilisp I think there is no resistance. It's actually much simpler than that: lack of resources. Paolo -- EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation http://www.paoloamoroso.it/ency/README |